A question about Solo

[Hawki]

While this is undeniably true, I'd argue fans of a given work of art are at least partially responsible for its success; no, they're not owed anything, but to intentionally go out of one's way to antagonize them, as seems to be the cool and hip thing to do among Hollywood types these days, has the predictable effect of turning away large amounts of people who would otherwise be the most eager to throw their money at one's product.

Not sure where Star Wars has done that, but on that matter:

Again, that's fair. But then, on one side we have supposed professionals working in a billion dollar industry, and on the other, random idiots on the internet. Surely it's not outlandish to assume the former should hold themselves to higher standards than the latter?

Can you link to any examples of this supposedly abusive behaviour?

Also, that the producers haven't resorted to anything like death threats or the usual BS that comes from outcry still puts them above the toxic elements of the fanbase.

Lord knows I've precious little respect for the artistic chops of, say, Michael Bay or Zack Snyder, but I do have to respect the fact that they know how to behave professionally; for all the hate they caught from fans of Transformers or Watchmen (and I know for a fact there was plenty, having my fair share to throw around), whatever need they may have felt to have a go at them clearly took a backseat to their sense of the standards of behavior expected of public persons working in an entertainment industry.

Michael Bay: "They love to hate [fans], and I don't care; let them hate."

Not exactly the best example of professional behaviour.

Frankly, I don't care either way - I don't like Bay's films, but that doesn't justify abuse ("attack the product, not the person"), but I've never seen him as an example of politeness in the industry. But I don't really care either way - people like Bay get plenty of abuse, so if he does snap back now and then, I can't fault him, even if I'm not a fan of his works.

 

[ex951753]

Why are people mad that people are voting with their wallets?

 

[KaraFang]

Why are people mad that people are voting with their wallets?

Frankly? Because its reached a point now that people seem to think a corporation "has their back" or "is their friend" and do not realise that a company sees them as a wallet with legs and wants to extract as MUCH money as it can while using every tactic it has in its toolbox to make them think it was their idea to hand over money.

So, "our" only option (for those that do not like the social messages being pumped into Star Wars - I'm not a SW fan myself, but my god its so evident when you compare the new ones to the original 4,5,6) is to not go to the movies created by the company who thinks that the direction they are going is a good idea.

Our only option is to not buy the merchandise, to also post on forums and youtube saying WHY we are not buying things/buying tickets. Because its the ONLY option to make them change direction.

However, a lot of people seem to think that the corporation has "their back" and become angry when those of us who go "this isn't how I want this to go in my fan supported IP" decide to not spend money on it. They expect us to swallow any manner of crap cloaked in the IP's clothes and be satisfied.

I dunno, all the social loud-speaking nowadays is just pissing me off. I support sexual rights, colour issues, people being people... but I don't support people demanding social issues being rammed into everything and that some faction has a "right" to demand something is added to satisfy their feelings of justification.

If you buy a franchise, buy an IP, you make sure that you follow the IDEAS AND MORES of your IP... if you don't it's not that IP anymore.

This is what is happening with SW and ST... and the companies that own them are slowly starting to realise that they have to stay true to that IP's structures, or they fail.

 

[Hawki]

Why are people mad that people are voting with their wallets?

Um, who's mad?

 

[Ogoid]

Can you link to any examples of this supposedly abusive behaviour?

Also, that the producers haven't resorted to anything like death threats or the usual BS that comes from outcry still puts them above the toxic elements of the fanbase.

Off the top of my head, there was that charming bit on Twitter by Lucasfilms Brand Manager Pablo Hidalgo, about "our continued and debilitating obsession with our childhood passions [being] caveman masculine until the dames ruined it."

Michael Bay: "They love to hate [fans], and I don't care; let them hate."

Not exactly the best example of professional behaviour.

Frankly, I don't care either way - I don't like Bay's films, but that doesn't justify abuse ("attack the product, not the person"), but I've never seen him as an example of politeness in the industry. But I don't really care either way - people like Bay get plenty of abuse, so if he does snap back now and then, I can't fault him, even if I'm not a fan of his works.

See, I'll admit I didn't know he said that, but in all honesty I don't have an issue with that quote. Dismissive and slightly condescending? Absolutely. But it's a long way away from accusing people of hating half the human population on the planet for having the sheer gall of criticizing one's writing.

 

[Trunkage]

Why are people mad that people are voting with their wallets?

Frankly? Because its reached a point now that people seem to think a corporation "has their back" or "is their friend" and do not realise that a company sees them as a wallet with legs and wants to extract as MUCH money as it can while using every tactic it has in its toolbox to make them think it was their idea to hand over money.

So, "our" only option (for those that do not like the social messages being pumped into Star Wars - I'm not a SW fan myself, but my god its so evident when you compare the new ones to the original 4,5,6) is to not go to the movies created by the company who thinks that the direction they are going is a good idea.

Our only option is to not buy the merchandise, to also post on forums and youtube saying WHY we are not buying things/buying tickets. Because its the ONLY option to make them change direction.

However, a lot of people seem to think that the corporation has "their back" and become angry when those of us who go "this isn't how I want this to go in my fan supported IP" decide to not spend money on it. They expect us to swallow any manner of crap cloaked in the IP's clothes and be satisfied.

I dunno, all the social loud-speaking nowadays is just pissing me off. I support sexual rights, colour issues, people being people... but I don't support people demanding social issues being rammed into everything and that some faction has a "right" to demand something is added to satisfy their feelings of justification.

If you buy a franchise, buy an IP, you make sure that you follow the IDEAS AND MORES of your IP... if you don't it's not that IP anymore.

This is what is happening with SW and ST... and the companies that own them are slowly starting to realise that they have to stay true to that IP's structures, or they fail.

Star Wars and Star Trek was always SJW, more prominently the latter. Star Wars rebellion is Antifa and Star Trek is pro-communist. You are used to those SJW messages now, and the SJWs are pushing for more. This clearly pushes against your SJW threshold. A lot of what is happening is just the continuation of shows/movies 40 years ago. People were unhappy with SJWness of Star Wars and Trek back in the day, just like they are now. The internet maybe echo chambering it, which is the different between now and then.


They were shoving message down your throat back then. You were a kid and just accepted it. As an adult, you don't.


As I pointed out, this movie was probably made to cater for those sick of the SJWness of the mainline Star Wars. My original argument was: They are boycotting the wrong movie and thus will get more SJW Star Wars. Its always been an SJW franchisee.


Fan already have been so hateful with the Prequels that Lucas doesn't want to touch it. The only people who are going to try to make a Star Wars movie are people with very thick skin. Thus, I think, Keanelly will just shrug off the insults and keep trucking

 

[ex951753]

Why are people mad that people are voting with their wallets?

Frankly? Because its reached a point now that people seem to think a corporation "has their back" or "is their friend" and do not realise that a company sees them as a wallet with legs and wants to extract as MUCH money as it can while using every tactic it has in its toolbox to make them think it was their idea to hand over money.

So, "our" only option (for those that do not like the social messages being pumped into Star Wars - I'm not a SW fan myself, but my god its so evident when you compare the new ones to the original 4,5,6) is to not go to the movies created by the company who thinks that the direction they are going is a good idea.

Our only option is to not buy the merchandise, to also post on forums and youtube saying WHY we are not buying things/buying tickets. Because its the ONLY option to make them change direction.

However, a lot of people seem to think that the corporation has "their back" and become angry when those of us who go "this isn't how I want this to go in my fan supported IP" decide to not spend money on it. They expect us to swallow any manner of crap cloaked in the IP's clothes and be satisfied.

I dunno, all the social loud-speaking nowadays is just pissing me off. I support sexual rights, colour issues, people being people... but I don't support people demanding social issues being rammed into everything and that some faction has a "right" to demand something is added to satisfy their feelings of justification.

If you buy a franchise, buy an IP, you make sure that you follow the IDEAS AND MORES of your IP... if you don't it's not that IP anymore.

This is what is happening with SW and ST... and the companies that own them are slowly starting to realise that they have to stay true to that IP's structures, or they fail.

The last SW I saw was Rogue One and decided it's probably the last SW I'll watch in theaters. Not that they're bad or anything, but I just don't find the franchise interesting anymore. TBH, I don't think there was a huge "SJW problem" in TFA and RO(although I hear TLJ was the worst?) and it probably wouldn't have gotten the hate it got if they just kept their head down and kept doing what they were doing. You're never going to make everyone happy especially with extremists on both sides. Instead they decided to go the way of Ghostbusters and kick the hornets nest.

What SW forgot though, is that it can't rely on foreign sales(China) like Transformers with their IP. SW was never a big thing in Asia. Most of my friends there never even seen a single SW film. I don't fault them for trying something new, I fault them for taunting and alienating a portion of their viewer base before their SW story was fleshed out.

 

[Hawki]

Off the top of my head, there was that charming bit on Twitter by Lucasfilms Brand Manager Pablo Hidalgo, about "our continued and debilitating obsession with our childhood passions [being] caveman masculine until the dames ruined it."

But it's a long way away from accusing people of hating half the human population on the planet for having the sheer gall of criticizing one's writing.

You need to provide more context for me to see this quote as "hating half the human population of the planet." I'd also need to see the context of the quote to see it as insulting. Taking it in isolation, all I can think of is how toxic fandom appears to have become in recent times, and it's hard to separate that toxicity from the increased no. of female leads. Star Wars may have dodged a bullet there though, because I've found its fandom to be toxic ever since the prequels - what Kennedy's going through now is what Lucas went through earlier.

 

[Trunkage]

Off the top of my head, there was that charming bit on Twitter by Lucasfilms Brand Manager Pablo Hidalgo, about "our continued and debilitating obsession with our childhood passions [being] caveman masculine until the dames ruined it."

But it's a long way away from accusing people of hating half the human population on the planet for having the sheer gall of criticizing one's writing.

You need to provide more context for me to see this quote as "hating half the human population of the planet." I'd also need to see the context of the quote to see it as insulting. Taking it in isolation, all I can think of is how toxic fandom appears to have become in recent times, and it's hard to separate that toxicity from the increased no. of female leads. Star Wars may have dodged a bullet there though, because I've found its fandom to be toxic ever since the prequels - what Kennedy's going through now is what Lucas went through earlier.

Here Hawki this might help explain things

 

[Hawki]

Here Hawki this might help explain things

That...didn't explain anything.

It's not even about the subject in question.

 

[Trunkage]

Here Hawki this might help explain things

That...didn't explain anything.

It's not even about the subject in question.

It was meant to be a jab at some of these guys. Seemed to twist what someone said to fit their narrative. Really focussed on how Star Wars will fail without a male lead because of previous movie records.

In particular, it portrays Mendelson as a person who blames men for Solo not being a success, which I thought would go with the quote "hating half the population on the planet."