A question about Solo

[Natemans]

I'm hearing bits and pieces trickle in about Solo. An acquaintance has seen it, says it's not too bad. Only one of the Youtube people I follow has a review up, and his opinion was 'eh, it's alright'. Sounds like Danny Glover kills it as Lando.

That's probably the best seal of approval for me lol

I mean, Solo is basically a Lando prequel.

We got a way better Lando than a Solo, that's for sure.

I thought Alden was fine. Wasn't great, but wasn't awful either. Donald Glover was great though.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

I thought Alden was fine. Wasn't great, but wasn't awful either. Donald Glover was great though.

I agree Ehrenreich did fine, but he doesn't have the same level of raw charisma as Harrison Ford, which played a large role in making the latters portrayal of Han Solo so memorable to begin with. Unlike Glover, who is charismatic enough to make a good Lando.

 

[COMaestro]

To go back to your point about Rey running away, she is shown in the movie to slowly turn and walk away as Kylo stands there watching her leave, so it isn't like she fled in a panic, she just sadly shook her head and left the scene, disappointed that Kylo hadn't renounced the Dark side as she was sure he intended to.

I don't think we watched the same film. In the movie I watched, they were both trying to Force pull a lightsaber to themselves, which broke in half, then Holdo did her hyperspace jump into the ship. Next thing we know, Rey has escaped and Kylo Ren wakes up among the wreckage.

I think you may need to watch this movie again, as you are making up scenes.

 

[Vanilla ISIS]

So, some of you might be aware of the planned boycott of Solo. Some people are really unhappy with Keneally after Last Jedi. They dislike where Star Wars is going. Some dislike how women are put front and centre on the billboard. Etc.

Nope. They dislike how the main demographic which has made this franchise a household name (white dudes) are being actively pushed away by the people in charge of making Star Wars movies.
Kennedy pushing slogans like "the force is female" is highly divisive and many young boys and men will not want to go to a "chick flick". She also said things like "we don't need male fans" which is even more divisive.
JJ calling everyone who criticized The Last Jedi (which is a bad boring movie that would have bombed hard without the Star Wars brand name attached to it) "insecure men who are afraid of women" is just the icing on the cake.
You don't talk like that to your customers.

Imagine this:
You go to a particular store all your life. It has what you like so you shop there. Then, the owners change and suddenly, the store changes everything except the aesthetic. When you voice your disapproval, you get called a bunch of names and told that they don't need you.
Would you still shop there? I wouldn't.
The customer is king in a capitalist society and companies need to be reminded of that.

The boycott worked and now Disney will have to think things through, which is a good thing.

 

[cathou]

So, some of you might be aware of the planned boycott of Solo. Some people are really unhappy with Keneally after Last Jedi. They dislike where Star Wars is going. Some dislike how women are put front and centre on the billboard. Etc.

Nope. They dislike how the main demographic which has made this franchise a household name (white dudes) are being actively pushed away by the people in charge of making Star Wars movies.
Kennedy pushing slogans like "the force is female" is highly divisive and many young boys and men will not want to go to a "chick flick". She also said things like "we don't need male fans" which is even more divisive.
JJ calling everyone who criticized The Last Jedi (which is a bad boring movie that would have bombed hard without the Star Wars brand name attached to it) "insecure men who are afraid of women" is just the icing on the cake.
You don't talk like that to your customers.

Imagine this:
You go to a particular store all your life. It has what you like so you shop there. Then, the owners change and suddenly, the store changes everything except the aesthetic. When you voice your disapproval, you get called a bunch of names and told that they don't need you.
Would you still shop there? I wouldn't.
The customer is king in a capitalist society and companies need to be reminded of that.

The boycott worked and now Disney will have to think things through, which is a good thing.

no, Kennedy said "I have a responsibility to the company that I work with. I don?t feel that I have a responsibility to cater in some way. I would never just seize on saying, 'Well, this is a franchise that?s appealed primarily to men for many, many years, and therefore I owe men something"

She was saying the she wanted to expend the fan base and appeal to everyone and not only the males.

No, JJ didnt not said that eveyrone who criticized TLJ insecure men who are afraid of women, here's the real quote"

"Asked by IndieWire about pushback from ?Star Wars? fans who decried Rian Johnson?s film for its focus on more female-centric stories (bolstered by the edition of franchise newbies like Laura Dern and Kelly Marie Tran), Abrams was clear: ?Their problem isn?t ?Star Wars,? their problem is being threatened.?"

So let me correct, what he say is that epeople who criticized TLJ for having too many female lead "insecure men who are afraid of women".

So, you know what make up a made of your own, and go watch fact before eating any stupidity that some ass youtubers about star wars. Really, i'm kind of feed up by this. i hate extremes. i liked TLJ and i liked Solo. are they perfect ? no. can i understand that some people like it and some dont ? yes Can they did better ? probably.

But people who rant that every star wars is shit and that everybody that defend the movies are either SJW or paid by disney are stupid, And people who say that the new star wars are perfect and that everybody who criticised them are right extremist are pretty stupid too.

Seriously, people on the internet. you think that because a few thousand people on a forum or on youtube decided that they must boycott star wars have any effect on the global market of star wars ? wake up...


yes it did underperformed, but i think it might be possible that the second week might be surprising. i do think that freleasing a star wars movie 5 months after the last one is an error, and might explained a lot, but also it was memorial weekend, and also, yes some people decided to not see it because of what they tought of TLJ, but also the NBA finals were this weekend, and the final of the champions leagues that is a very big deal in europe. and it's just a week after deadpool. and bad marketing, and bad PR with all the behind the scene drama.

so they was a lot against this movie, and the so call boycott if just a very small portion of it. but so far the rfeviews are not that bad. a lot of people say that it was a good movie. not a great movie, but at least an enjoyable one. so maybe next weekend people will decide to go see it.

 

[Trunkage]

So, some of you might be aware of the planned boycott of Solo. Some people are really unhappy with Keneally after Last Jedi. They dislike where Star Wars is going. Some dislike how women are put front and centre on the billboard. Etc.

Nope. They dislike how the main demographic which has made this franchise a household name (white dudes) are being actively pushed away by the people in charge of making Star Wars movies.
Kennedy pushing slogans like "the force is female" is highly divisive and many young boys and men will not want to go to a "chick flick". She also said things like "we don't need male fans" which is even more divisive.
JJ calling everyone who criticized The Last Jedi (which is a bad boring movie that would have bombed hard without the Star Wars brand name attached to it) "insecure men who are afraid of women" is just the icing on the cake.
You don't talk like that to your customers.

Imagine this:
You go to a particular store all your life. It has what you like so you shop there. Then, the owners change and suddenly, the store changes everything except the aesthetic. When you voice your disapproval, you get called a bunch of names and told that they don't need you.
Would you still shop there? I wouldn't.
The customer is king in a capitalist society and companies need to be reminded of that.

The boycott worked and now Disney will have to think things through, which is a good thing.

I would just not shop there. Go find something that suits me.

But the problem is that this boycott hasn't worked. Keanelly can read this as - we gave them the male lead and supporting cast. They aren't happy. Maybe we should go more SJW becuase pandering to the SQWs hasn't made them happy.

Star Wars came out at a time when people didn't criticise it for all its flaws. I wonder what would have happened if they came out during the time of the Internet. The two actual Jedi - how lazy and unheroic are they? Hiding in the ass end of space. They're too scare to help, letting other people fix up their mistakes. They hold Luke back all the time.

But it got a pass becuase nerd culture wasn't a big thing then

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I'm hearing bits and pieces trickle in about Solo. An acquaintance has seen it, says it's not too bad. Only one of the Youtube people I follow has a review up, and his opinion was 'eh, it's alright'. Sounds like Danny Glover kills it as Lando.

That's probably the best seal of approval for me lol

I mean, Solo is basically a Lando prequel.

We got a way better Lando than a Solo, that's for sure.

I thought Alden was fine. Wasn't great, but wasn't awful either. Donald Glover was great though.

No, of course, he's... serviceable. But I thought he was more charismatic in Hail Caesar, just from that one scene where he gets that one take right ("I'm... complicated").

 

[Hawki]

Nope. They dislike how the main demographic which has made this franchise a household name (white dudes) are being actively pushed away by the people in charge of making Star Wars movies.

Sorry, I'm going to stop you there - that isn't how the world works. That isn't how art works.

Fans don't make the art they consume. Fans are not "owed" anything. The creators of art aren't obliged to kowtow to the fans.

If we're looking at Star Wars in particular, did fans direct the movies? Edit them? Cast them? Write for them? Compose for them? Do anything in regards to their actual construction? While you might be able to point to a few individuals that "made the leap," so to speak, the answer in most cases is going to be "no." Fans consumed a property. That's it. Fans aren't patrons in the sense of a patron sponsering an artist, they're consumers. The act of consumption isn't an act of creation.

Imagine this:
You go to a particular store all your life. It has what you like so you shop there. Then, the owners change and suddenly, the store changes everything except the aesthetic. When you voice your disapproval, you get called a bunch of names and told that they don't need you.
Would you still shop there? I wouldn't.
The customer is king in a capitalist society and companies need to be reminded of that.

Nice tactic in cutting out that if we want this analogy to be accurate, the customer started calling the owner names before the owner returned the favour (if at all).

Also, I'd just stop shopping there. The store isn't obliged to cater to me. If they want to do something different, that's their prerogative. I'm not obliged to support them, but they're not obliged to support me.

The boycott worked

Source needed.

I mean, if you want to cite Solo as a bomb, sure, but I'd need better evidence of causation than simple assertion.

I didn't end up going to see it opening weekend mainly because the people I usually go to see movies with didn't feel like going out that weekend. I do want to go see it, though I don't really like going out to the movies alone. Missed out on Early Man and Lego Batman in the cinema cause of this....

Fun fact, I kinda prefer going to the movies alone...sometimes. The problem is that if I go with friends/family, I'm left hoping that they're having as much fun as I am (or if I'm not having fun, that my dislike is justified).

On the other, if I'm really out of place in a cinema for whatever reason, I can kind of feel awkward. Funnily enough, when I saw Ready Player One, I was actually the youngest person there (I'm 28, most of the crowd were oldies). Though on the flipside, when I saw Goosebumps when it came out, I was the oldest person in the cinema, and...yeah. Did get at least one awkward look from one of the mothers.

But the problem is that this boycott hasn't worked. Keanelly can read this as - we gave them the male lead and supporting cast. They aren't happy. Maybe we should go more SJW becuase pandering to the SQWs hasn't made them happy.

Whether the boycott worked or not, am I the only one that's kind of confused about it? If you don't like TLJ, fine. If you want to boycott, fine. But Solo is pretty much the opposite of the Last Jedi (male lead, safe story, completely different style, different pacing, etc.), so wouldn't it make more sense to support a movie that isn't like TLJ at all? I can sort of get boycotting Ep. 9 if that's your thing, but the whole "boycott Solo because of Last Jedi" seems like going after a fly with a shotgun.

 

[Ogoid]

Sorry, I'm going to stop you there - that isn't how the world works. That isn't how art works.

Fans don't make the art they consume. Fans are not "owed" anything. The creators of art aren't obliged to kowtow to the fans.

If we're looking at Star Wars in particular, did fans direct the movies? Edit them? Cast them? Write for them? Compose for them? Do anything in regards to their actual construction? While you might be able to point to a few individuals that "made the leap," so to speak, the answer in most cases is going to be "no." Fans consumed a property. That's it. Fans aren't patrons in the sense of a patron sponsering an artist, they're consumers. The act of consumption isn't an act of creation.

While this is undeniably true, I'd argue fans of a given work of art are at least partially responsible for its success; no, they're not owed anything, but to intentionally go out of one's way to antagonize them, as seems to be the cool and hip thing to do among Hollywood types these days, has the predictable effect of turning away large amounts of people who would otherwise be the most eager to throw their money at one's product.

Nice tactic in cutting out that if we want this analogy to be accurate, the customer started calling the owner names before the owner returned the favour (if at all).

Also, I'd just stop shopping there. The store isn't obliged to cater to me. If they want to do something different, that's their prerogative. I'm not obliged to support them, but they're not obliged to support me.

Again, that's fair. But then, on one side we have supposed professionals working in a billion dollar industry, and on the other, random idiots on the internet. Surely it's not outlandish to assume the former should hold themselves to higher standards than the latter?

Lord knows I've precious little respect for the artistic chops of, say, Michael Bay or Zack Snyder, but I do have to respect the fact that they know how to behave professionally; for all the hate they caught from fans of Transformers or Watchmen (and I know for a fact there was plenty, having my fair share to throw around), whatever need they may have felt to have a go at them clearly took a backseat to their sense of the standards of behavior expected of public persons working in an entertainment industry.

Whether the boycott worked or not, am I the only one that's kind of confused about it? If you don't like TLJ, fine. If you want to boycott, fine. But Solo is pretty much the opposite of the Last Jedi (male lead, safe story, completely different style, different pacing, etc.), so wouldn't it make more sense to support a movie that isn't like TLJ at all? I can sort of get boycotting Ep. 9 if that's your thing, but the whole "boycott Solo because of Last Jedi" seems like going after a fly with a shotgun.

I agree that it's up in the air how much this hypothetical boycott is responsible for Solo's box office results. But I do think it's no secret there are several people who are dissatisfied not only with TLJ (although that, of course, is the main point of contention) but with Disney's handling of Star Wars as a whole. And I believe there are, as well, people who aren't "boycotting" it, but have simply lost interest in the entire franchise as a result.

 

[Hawki]

While this is undeniably true, I'd argue fans of a given work of art are at least partially responsible for its success; no, they're not owed anything, but to intentionally go out of one's way to antagonize them, as seems to be the cool and hip thing to do among Hollywood types these days, has the predictable effect of turning away large amounts of people who would otherwise be the most eager to throw their money at one's product.

Not sure where Star Wars has done that, but on that matter:

Again, that's fair. But then, on one side we have supposed professionals working in a billion dollar industry, and on the other, random idiots on the internet. Surely it's not outlandish to assume the former should hold themselves to higher standards than the latter?

Can you link to any examples of this supposedly abusive behaviour?

Also, that the producers haven't resorted to anything like death threats or the usual BS that comes from outcry still puts them above the toxic elements of the fanbase.

Lord knows I've precious little respect for the artistic chops of, say, Michael Bay or Zack Snyder, but I do have to respect the fact that they know how to behave professionally; for all the hate they caught from fans of Transformers or Watchmen (and I know for a fact there was plenty, having my fair share to throw around), whatever need they may have felt to have a go at them clearly took a backseat to their sense of the standards of behavior expected of public persons working in an entertainment industry.

Michael Bay: "They love to hate [fans], and I don't care; let them hate."

Not exactly the best example of professional behaviour.

Frankly, I don't care either way - I don't like Bay's films, but that doesn't justify abuse ("attack the product, not the person"), but I've never seen him as an example of politeness in the industry. But I don't really care either way - people like Bay get plenty of abuse, so if he does snap back now and then, I can't fault him, even if I'm not a fan of his works.

 

[ex951753]

Why are people mad that people are voting with their wallets?

 

[KaraFang]

Why are people mad that people are voting with their wallets?

Frankly? Because its reached a point now that people seem to think a corporation "has their back" or "is their friend" and do not realise that a company sees them as a wallet with legs and wants to extract as MUCH money as it can while using every tactic it has in its toolbox to make them think it was their idea to hand over money.

So, "our" only option (for those that do not like the social messages being pumped into Star Wars - I'm not a SW fan myself, but my god its so evident when you compare the new ones to the original 4,5,6) is to not go to the movies created by the company who thinks that the direction they are going is a good idea.

Our only option is to not buy the merchandise, to also post on forums and youtube saying WHY we are not buying things/buying tickets. Because its the ONLY option to make them change direction.

However, a lot of people seem to think that the corporation has "their back" and become angry when those of us who go "this isn't how I want this to go in my fan supported IP" decide to not spend money on it. They expect us to swallow any manner of crap cloaked in the IP's clothes and be satisfied.

I dunno, all the social loud-speaking nowadays is just pissing me off. I support sexual rights, colour issues, people being people... but I don't support people demanding social issues being rammed into everything and that some faction has a "right" to demand something is added to satisfy their feelings of justification.

If you buy a franchise, buy an IP, you make sure that you follow the IDEAS AND MORES of your IP... if you don't it's not that IP anymore.

This is what is happening with SW and ST... and the companies that own them are slowly starting to realise that they have to stay true to that IP's structures, or they fail.

 

[Hawki]

Why are people mad that people are voting with their wallets?

Um, who's mad?

 

[Ogoid]

Can you link to any examples of this supposedly abusive behaviour?

Also, that the producers haven't resorted to anything like death threats or the usual BS that comes from outcry still puts them above the toxic elements of the fanbase.

Off the top of my head, there was that charming bit on Twitter by Lucasfilms Brand Manager Pablo Hidalgo, about "our continued and debilitating obsession with our childhood passions [being] caveman masculine until the dames ruined it."

Michael Bay: "They love to hate [fans], and I don't care; let them hate."

Not exactly the best example of professional behaviour.

Frankly, I don't care either way - I don't like Bay's films, but that doesn't justify abuse ("attack the product, not the person"), but I've never seen him as an example of politeness in the industry. But I don't really care either way - people like Bay get plenty of abuse, so if he does snap back now and then, I can't fault him, even if I'm not a fan of his works.

See, I'll admit I didn't know he said that, but in all honesty I don't have an issue with that quote. Dismissive and slightly condescending? Absolutely. But it's a long way away from accusing people of hating half the human population on the planet for having the sheer gall of criticizing one's writing.

 

[Trunkage]

Why are people mad that people are voting with their wallets?

Frankly? Because its reached a point now that people seem to think a corporation "has their back" or "is their friend" and do not realise that a company sees them as a wallet with legs and wants to extract as MUCH money as it can while using every tactic it has in its toolbox to make them think it was their idea to hand over money.

So, "our" only option (for those that do not like the social messages being pumped into Star Wars - I'm not a SW fan myself, but my god its so evident when you compare the new ones to the original 4,5,6) is to not go to the movies created by the company who thinks that the direction they are going is a good idea.

Our only option is to not buy the merchandise, to also post on forums and youtube saying WHY we are not buying things/buying tickets. Because its the ONLY option to make them change direction.

However, a lot of people seem to think that the corporation has "their back" and become angry when those of us who go "this isn't how I want this to go in my fan supported IP" decide to not spend money on it. They expect us to swallow any manner of crap cloaked in the IP's clothes and be satisfied.

I dunno, all the social loud-speaking nowadays is just pissing me off. I support sexual rights, colour issues, people being people... but I don't support people demanding social issues being rammed into everything and that some faction has a "right" to demand something is added to satisfy their feelings of justification.

If you buy a franchise, buy an IP, you make sure that you follow the IDEAS AND MORES of your IP... if you don't it's not that IP anymore.

This is what is happening with SW and ST... and the companies that own them are slowly starting to realise that they have to stay true to that IP's structures, or they fail.

Star Wars and Star Trek was always SJW, more prominently the latter. Star Wars rebellion is Antifa and Star Trek is pro-communist. You are used to those SJW messages now, and the SJWs are pushing for more. This clearly pushes against your SJW threshold. A lot of what is happening is just the continuation of shows/movies 40 years ago. People were unhappy with SJWness of Star Wars and Trek back in the day, just like they are now. The internet maybe echo chambering it, which is the different between now and then.


They were shoving message down your throat back then. You were a kid and just accepted it. As an adult, you don't.


As I pointed out, this movie was probably made to cater for those sick of the SJWness of the mainline Star Wars. My original argument was: They are boycotting the wrong movie and thus will get more SJW Star Wars. Its always been an SJW franchisee.


Fan already have been so hateful with the Prequels that Lucas doesn't want to touch it. The only people who are going to try to make a Star Wars movie are people with very thick skin. Thus, I think, Keanelly will just shrug off the insults and keep trucking

 

[ex951753]

Why are people mad that people are voting with their wallets?

Frankly? Because its reached a point now that people seem to think a corporation "has their back" or "is their friend" and do not realise that a company sees them as a wallet with legs and wants to extract as MUCH money as it can while using every tactic it has in its toolbox to make them think it was their idea to hand over money.

So, "our" only option (for those that do not like the social messages being pumped into Star Wars - I'm not a SW fan myself, but my god its so evident when you compare the new ones to the original 4,5,6) is to not go to the movies created by the company who thinks that the direction they are going is a good idea.

Our only option is to not buy the merchandise, to also post on forums and youtube saying WHY we are not buying things/buying tickets. Because its the ONLY option to make them change direction.

However, a lot of people seem to think that the corporation has "their back" and become angry when those of us who go "this isn't how I want this to go in my fan supported IP" decide to not spend money on it. They expect us to swallow any manner of crap cloaked in the IP's clothes and be satisfied.

I dunno, all the social loud-speaking nowadays is just pissing me off. I support sexual rights, colour issues, people being people... but I don't support people demanding social issues being rammed into everything and that some faction has a "right" to demand something is added to satisfy their feelings of justification.

If you buy a franchise, buy an IP, you make sure that you follow the IDEAS AND MORES of your IP... if you don't it's not that IP anymore.

This is what is happening with SW and ST... and the companies that own them are slowly starting to realise that they have to stay true to that IP's structures, or they fail.

The last SW I saw was Rogue One and decided it's probably the last SW I'll watch in theaters. Not that they're bad or anything, but I just don't find the franchise interesting anymore. TBH, I don't think there was a huge "SJW problem" in TFA and RO(although I hear TLJ was the worst?) and it probably wouldn't have gotten the hate it got if they just kept their head down and kept doing what they were doing. You're never going to make everyone happy especially with extremists on both sides. Instead they decided to go the way of Ghostbusters and kick the hornets nest.

What SW forgot though, is that it can't rely on foreign sales(China) like Transformers with their IP. SW was never a big thing in Asia. Most of my friends there never even seen a single SW film. I don't fault them for trying something new, I fault them for taunting and alienating a portion of their viewer base before their SW story was fleshed out.

 

[Hawki]

Off the top of my head, there was that charming bit on Twitter by Lucasfilms Brand Manager Pablo Hidalgo, about "our continued and debilitating obsession with our childhood passions [being] caveman masculine until the dames ruined it."

But it's a long way away from accusing people of hating half the human population on the planet for having the sheer gall of criticizing one's writing.

You need to provide more context for me to see this quote as "hating half the human population of the planet." I'd also need to see the context of the quote to see it as insulting. Taking it in isolation, all I can think of is how toxic fandom appears to have become in recent times, and it's hard to separate that toxicity from the increased no. of female leads. Star Wars may have dodged a bullet there though, because I've found its fandom to be toxic ever since the prequels - what Kennedy's going through now is what Lucas went through earlier.

 

[Trunkage]

Off the top of my head, there was that charming bit on Twitter by Lucasfilms Brand Manager Pablo Hidalgo, about "our continued and debilitating obsession with our childhood passions [being] caveman masculine until the dames ruined it."

But it's a long way away from accusing people of hating half the human population on the planet for having the sheer gall of criticizing one's writing.

You need to provide more context for me to see this quote as "hating half the human population of the planet." I'd also need to see the context of the quote to see it as insulting. Taking it in isolation, all I can think of is how toxic fandom appears to have become in recent times, and it's hard to separate that toxicity from the increased no. of female leads. Star Wars may have dodged a bullet there though, because I've found its fandom to be toxic ever since the prequels - what Kennedy's going through now is what Lucas went through earlier.

Here Hawki this might help explain things

 

[Hawki]

Here Hawki this might help explain things

That...didn't explain anything.

It's not even about the subject in question.

 

[Trunkage]

Here Hawki this might help explain things

That...didn't explain anything.

It's not even about the subject in question.

It was meant to be a jab at some of these guys. Seemed to twist what someone said to fit their narrative. Really focussed on how Star Wars will fail without a male lead because of previous movie records.

In particular, it portrays Mendelson as a person who blames men for Solo not being a success, which I thought would go with the quote "hating half the population on the planet."