A question for non British people

[FurKlarheitIchRant]

I we call them the BNP

 

[mexicola]

I first heard about Thatcher when I was reading some old issues of Hellblazer a few years back, or at least that's the 1st time her name registered in my mind. I came upon her name several times since then and it's always in the context of how bitchy she was, but I never heard just what exactly did she do to earn that reputation (nor did I care enough to look it up.)

 

[Spygon]

She sucked, but I don't really see how we could have avoided the Falklands war.

Those sneaky Argentinians...

Actually...we kinda started the war. Thatcher ordered the British Navy to open fire on a civilian Argentinian ship that wasn't anywhere near the fleet. The Argentinians attacking us was a retaliatory gesture..

Sorry but can we have a source on that as the main problem with invasion of the falklands for the uk was that we did not have any navy ships anywhere near the islands after the HMS Endurance was withdrawn from the area.This is why it took up to nearly a week for us to get any proper support to the island and let the Argentine army fortify there postions.

 

[The_Echo]

The term "Iron Lady" sounds familiar, but I can't say that I know anything more than that.

 

[tunderball]

Hate the tories but part of being a leader is making tough decisions that people will hate you for, Don't get me wrong I hate her as much as any British person, but she was a strong leader in a country full of problems and I hate to think of what we'd be like now if a weak leader was in charge. Bit of a tough one really yeah I totally hate her for what she did to almost every family around where I live by closing the mines and BL but in a way what she did was neccessary and if she didn't do it somebody else would have.
Like I said sometimes being a leader means being hated for something you had to do.

 

[FurKlarheitIchRant]

I heard of her first from the movie "Billy Elliot". But no, I'm probably not old enough to know her well enough to have an opinion. Anyone who sends their people out to war though, is a horrible person by definition.

Except that war is often necessary to overthrow evil dictators and bring freedom to enslaved people. Do you feel that the allies were horrible people for choosing to fight Hitler?

but then again if the first world war had been avoided Germany would have never gone into a resection and its national pride would be intact and Hitler would have no argument and being an Austrian would be less accepted than the Jewish community, just to point out before Hitler Germany was one of the most multi-religious accepting states in Europe, therefore no second world war.

Actually, Japan Started World War 2 by invading mainland Asia, that whole thing with Germany came afterward- and that whole Pear Harbor thing came many years afterward. Japan killed over 30 million people, far more than Germany, so someone would still have had to stop them.

yes but mainland Europe would not be involved and it would be a skirmish between the British colonial forces and Japan, the British not being split on two fronts would almost certainly win. my point is not that war is wrong merely that the second "world war" could have been avoided.

 

[jigilojoe]

I hope this film shows how much of a prick she is -.-

When she dies I will be partying on the street with the rest of Scotland.

and Wales

and ireland!

And England! She may of been one of our lot but she hardly made it easy on us, not in the North anyway.

I personally think it's chance for the World to cheer

 

[Sejs Cube]

Canadian. Yes, familiar with Thatcher. Yes, she's a horrible person.

Every time I've seen something about her I've been left with the impression that there's something wrong with her. She comes across as completely lacking in human empathy.

 

[Dudemeister]

I like her because as I far as I know she was against the socialism of Britain at the time and did a great deal to end it..

She was against the Socialism of Britain. To end this Socialism, she closed down entire industries; leaving tens of thousands of people out of their jobs and relying on state benefits to live. Good job Maggie.

 

[Boba Frag]

Hi, I'm Irish

Guess what I think of Maggy??

I'd like to point out that I'm not a lunatic Irish Republican, but being a citizen of the Irish Republic, and a student of history, I can't say I appreciate what the woman did for furthering of peace in the conflict ridden Northern Ireland of her day. Her reputation as the Iron Lady is well deserved, but as you said, was that actually of benefit to Britain at the time?

Her legacy will be debated in time, I'm sure, by excellent British historians -I'm being sincere here, the majority of my favourite historians are probably British!- but I think her passing will not be marked with fond farewells from the Welsh mining towns, or indeed from the Nationalist community in Northern Ireland.

Being someone from the Republic, and being a student of Irish diplomatic history, I know that her personality was not initially conducive to cooperation. Then again, our own now reviled former leader Charles J. Haughey (a true Machiavell) wasn't exactly cooperative with the British government either.

I'm kind of puzzled by Meryl Streep playing her- surely Lindsay Duncan's performance was the final word on her? Incredible performance.

Anyway, I know that as disliked as she may be in Ireland, I know she's utterly reviled by a large percentage of the British people.

 

[FurKlarheitIchRant]

I heard of her first from the movie "Billy Elliot". But no, I'm probably not old enough to know her well enough to have an opinion. Anyone who sends their people out to war though, is a horrible person by definition.

Except that war is often necessary to overthrow evil dictators and bring freedom to enslaved people. Do you feel that the allies were horrible people for choosing to fight Hitler?

but then again if the first world war had been avoided Germany would have never gone into a resection and its national pride would be intact and Hitler would have no argument and being an Austrian would be less accepted than the Jewish community, just to point out before Hitler Germany was one of the most multi-religious accepting states in Europe, therefore no second world war.

Actually, Japan Started World War 2 by invading mainland Asia, that whole thing with Germany came afterward- and that whole Pear Harbor thing came many years afterward. Japan killed over 30 million people, far more than Germany, so someone would still have had to stop them.

yes but mainland Europe would not be involved and it would be a skirmish between the British colonial forces and Japan, the British not being split on two fronts would almost certainly win. my point is not that war is wrong merely that the second "world war" could have been avoided.

and it may sound nationalistic and over confident but you must remember Britain at the time controlled one third of the population of the world and had the largest and most sophisticated navy's in the world, this is all not including the rate of growth the British empire had been gowning throw before the first world war.

 

[Boba Frag]

She was viewed favorably in Canada. She was heartless no doubt when she stepped into the political arena. But thats what I liked about her. She knew the job and got it done. I only got to see her foreign policies in action so I don't know what sort of damage she did to Britain while in power.

Dude, you are in for a shock and a half.

Her policies caused widespread misery and despair in Britain.

You ever read V for Vendetta, or ever see the movie? That work, by Alan Moore, is based on Thatcher's Britain.

 

[Darkandroid]

Well, it's one of those things where the tough desicians to deal with far reaching problems are never popular. It's rare when politicians act to change anything, rather than fighting symptoms, and worrying about being popular enough to be re-elected. As I understand Thatcher's reign (in the US) she did a lot of things that were pretty bad in the short term, but have positive effects in the long term. She did them knowing this, and even saying so, but in the end people still remember her for the time frame where there was hardship and a huge unemployment rate, and not for the stronger economy that rose afterwards. It hasn't been all that long, and this huge unemployment rate isn't there anymore, and there is a highest average standard of living the region has ever seen. As far as The Falklands go, wars are NEVER popular, except maybe when victors record them in the history books, and people go "oh wow, that was awesome" (maybe) but nobody actually wants to be one of the guys living it, crawling on his belly through the mud, or sitting in a floating tin can, while trying to kill people and watching everyone die around them.

I think she's similar to "Dubbya" here in the US honestly. A leader who won't be remembered well until long after their death. Someone with many faults, but will probably be eventually acknowleged as having done generally the right things at the time, once people are seperated from the hardships by enough time. You might not "see" it that way now, but a generation or two after your gone I think perspectives on things going on now will be a bit differant, having the benefit of hindsight and not having to actually deal with the problems, or
hearing the opinions of those that did. People as a whole are not masochistic enough to feel their pain and suffering is for the best as they endure it, even if it is for the best.

Not a popular way of viewing things going by the responses I see here, but my thoughts.

My opinion is pretty much this. She did something most politicians don't have the balls to do. Make decision that will benefit an economy in the long term at the cost at negative outcomes in the short time. Most just make some short term gain in order to seem popular and help them and their party stay in power and this just doesn't work overall.

She dealt with industries that were failing and if carried on would have collapsed not just in the industry itself but probably economically for the whole nation. Though obviously we have no way of knowing what would've exactly happened if she left them alone. But it doesn't stop the fact those industries weren't doing well. Unfortunately the move did case high unemployment and the North being crippled for a period of time and her anti-union ideals didn't really help much on the popularity side. But it did help with a strong economy we saw in the 90's. But like Therumancer said this happened after her time so you wouldn't associate it with her straight away. The economy of the time is perceived to be caused by who is in power at the time and not what happened before and other factors you would need to consider. Look at Gordon Brown, he came into power at the worst possible time and suffered for it. So in the public eye, during her terms things seemed bad, so in association what she did seemed bad. Well in some aspects yes, it was bad (especially in the north) but in the long run very positive for our economy.

That being said, her last term is just a big grey area and many questionable decision were made.

Really we need more politicians like her, maybe not to her extremes. But those who are willing to make changes that will help in the long term. Even if it makes you unpopular, and not just have policies that can help you stay in power which is what we are seeing now.

Ironically we need more manufacturing industries if we want to compete in the global market these days. But hey that's economics and politics for you. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[JochemDude]

I remember her being mentioned on Top Gear a few times... Sounded like a stone cold *****

 

[Dango]

I'm and American and I'd heard of her while studying the Falklands War, but that's it really.

 

[MoeTheMonk]

I've heard of her before. I've always had a good opinion of her, as she seems to have helped restore Britian's economy somewhat.
And I'm not a big fan of either trade unions or rampant socialism so ++ there as well. But probably the biggest thing that I like was the large role she played, along with Reagan, in ending the Cold War, the Soviet Union really needed to go.

 

[Rafe]

English here. Thatcher was one of the last great idealists able to defeat those who threatened the balance of power without compromise. Powerful rulers are needed to control the people. Although she had some shortcomings, I believe her to be one of the great British Prime Ministers. Not like the pragmatists today who would bend their policies for the sole purpose of being elected or remaining in power.

 

[Senaro]

I've heard her name thrown around a few times, but I know nothing about her. Was she the prime minister for a while or something?

 

[Azure-Supernova]

I'm actually quite shocked by all of the generalisation going on in this thread. Apparently she made everyone's life in the UK miserable and now we all hate her. I have a fair few pro-Conservative friends. I'm actually surprised Lord Cuthberton isn't here...

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I'm Canadian and I've heard her name but I don't know much about her.
Although from reading other people's posts I sure as hell would never want to be a world leader. Fucking hell, I couldn't handle being slammed and hated on for doing what I thought was best for the people, by those very people.