A question to the grown adult men of the Escapist

[Snake Plissken]

She's a ****. He's not exactly exempt from moral reprehensibility, either, but she's still a ****.

Alcohol impairs your judgment, but I've never understood how people can claim that alcohol will make you change your mind about something. Devout Christians don't get wasted and suddenly become apostates. Nobody gets wasted and suddenly finds pop-country music to be enjoyable. Would she have slept with him had she not been drinking? Perhaps not, but her actions indicate that she would have, at the very least, entertained the idea.

Was it a good idea on his part? Probably not, considering that she could take him for all he's worth and probably send him to prison for a good chunk of time based on her story. Aside from the legality of the issue, though, I don't find that he did much wrong. Sure, it's not nice for you, but if she were single most guys probably wouldn't have much of an issue.

 

[intheweeds]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Sometimes I hate these forums. They're just ridiculously sexist/misandrist.

Full of ludicrous generalisations and willful ignorance.

I really should stop coming into these threads, they just inevitably upset me.

Women are not physically capable of getting a guy pregnant and never being seen again. Is that not a fact? I'm not trying to be sexist. When a woman gets drunk and fucks a guy, she puts herself at risk of pregnancy. When a guy does it he puts someone else at risk of pregnancy. That is simply a natural fact.

STDS and the psychological ramifications are only something that happens to women then?

Women are perfectly capable of seducing men that are in a relationship and causing social distress. Which you seemed to be insinuating wasn't possible.

however you slice it, pregnancy isn't the only unwanted side effect of an ill thought out liaison. And you're being sexist by just dismissing every other consequence.

just because other side effects exist doesn't make this sexist. The fact that i didn't mention std's is exactly because this is something both sexes can transmit. I'm not dismissing it. I can't fuck my g/f properly for six fucking months. There is no dismissing that. It's irrelevant to my point. I am talking about one specific fact. Women cannot get men pregnant. That's not sexist.

The post I replied to said nothing about pregnancy.

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

That's vauge at best. The situation we are describing can totally be reversed. No one mentioned anything about pregnancy until you brought it up after the fact.

Everyone else is talking about where the responsibility of the liaison lies.

I apologize that my use of the word parts wasn't clear enough. I honestly thought I had been clear. Pregnancy is all i was and am now talking about. I personally believe that if you have that biological capability, you have a responsibility knowing that that biologically a woman doesn't have. A woman knows she can fuck her life up and has that responsibility, I argue the man's side of that is much greater because he is risking someone else while the woman is risking herself.

 

[Princess Rose]

I'm not denying that anyone can doing. I'm not saying that gender is the sole factor, merely that's it's a very large one, and shouldn't be dismissed.

Oh, I know. And I agree. But, somewhere several pages ago, someone was talking about how you can't tell what a rapist looks like, so you have to be cautious around any man you don't know because he could potentially be one.

I was merely expanding on that. Anyone could be.

Just like anyone could be a murder.

When you say that any man could be a rapist, it creates images of fearing all men because of what they might do.

When you say that everyone could be a murderer, it creates a more... general caution. People (or most people) don't avoid everyone because anyone could be a killer - they just accept that fact and proceed with caution.

That's a healthier perspective with rape. If you acknowledge that anyone COULD be, you can proceed with caution without being afraid of everyone. I think a lot of "bad feminists" get into the trap of believing that all men should be treated as rapists. And that would be as bad as treating every single person as if they were an axe murder.

One can be cautious and take personal responsibility without treating a person who has committed no crime as if they are a criminal simply because they're capable of it.

Also, when you say "everyone is capable" you are forced to include yourself. If a woman says "all men" then she is removing herself - men are, but she isn't. If she says "everyone" then she must admit that she is capable of that act herself. It changes the attitude.

Anyway, I'm rambling. You get the idea. I'm not trying to deny facts - I actually think that people should be more aware of how many people are hurt by rape each year - but we won't get anywhere with an "us vs them" attitude.

Rape is a problem for everyone - and we all need to work together and take personal responsibility to prevent rape.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

As for the guy though, if I were you I'd go round his house right now and smash all his windows in with a baseball bat, and then smash him round the head with it if he dares to confront you. If you have already done this... go do it again. I don't think anyone would begrudge you making that guy's life hell for a long while yet. If you're feeling really vindictive, take it upon yourself to ruin every single relationship he tries to get himself into until he moves away from you so you never have to see his face again.

Please, if the OP or anyone else is considering doing this, don't. Just don't do this. Firstly it works on the assumption that you're allowed to be violent because you're a woman and you're angry (you aren't, you will be arrested), secondly it works on the assumption that he's not going to take that bat off you and fuck you with it.

I remember a case a while ago where a girl wound up her room mate constantly over the course of several months as a social experiment. The experiment concluded when he flipped out and took an axe to her head. Never ever assume a man won't hit you, because if you push someone far enough practically anyone will lash out.

Ok I was being facetious about the baseball bat thing. But I still stand by my point that this guy really deserves to be on the receiving end of some freshly served revenge. It's scum like him that give everyone born with a penis a bad name and who actually lend some weight to the 'all men are pigs' argument. If nothing else I'd teach him a lesson he wouldn't forget in the hope that t would make him think twice about doing it again, thus protecting the next unfortunate soul who happens to be drunk in his presence.

 

[Zeekar]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Sometimes I hate these forums. They're just ridiculously sexist/misandrist.

Full of ludicrous generalisations and willful ignorance.

I really should stop coming into these threads, they just inevitably upset me.

Women are not physically capable of getting a guy pregnant and never being seen again. Is that not a fact? I'm not trying to be sexist. When a woman gets drunk and fucks a guy, she puts herself at risk of pregnancy. When a guy does it he puts someone else at risk of pregnancy. That is simply a natural fact.

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Um... ahem.... **raises hand**

Hi. I'm female (just in case my profile name wasn't obvious enough). And I was in pretty much this situation, but with the genders reversed. And I was the seducer.

I'm not much of a drinker. I don't like going over a 3 on the drunk scale. Warm, a little tipsy, but not much more than that. At least not socially.

I've slept with guys who were drunk off their asses. Probably not a 10, cause I doubt they could "function" that drunk, but guys who were way drunker than I was. And there was one case where it was with someone who I knew was dating one of my friends. There were... other issues involved, but it was basically your situation, gender reversed.

So... yeah. Not saying it was right - it was certainly one of my more "super *****" moments, and one I'm not particularly proud of.

But, while I agree that the guy in your situation was a pig, I wouldn't say that it would never happen the other way. Women are as capable of shirking responsibility and taking what they want as men. Trust me.

you don't have the physical capability of getting a guy pregnant and fucking off never to be seen again though. If you actually had a dick would it change how you felt/acted?

Very one sided view I must say.
Woman have the ability to become pregnant, keep the child, deny the father visitation (or at least keep it to the bare minimum which is every 2nd weekend where I live) and claim child support.

...She has had to go through being pregnant alone, and now is a single mother who's education and future is mostly fucked while the man, although he may feel sad, can really do whatever he wants. He can keep it a secret from the whole world if he wants...

I think you might have missed the important bit: "Can claim child support". I've seen men's lives ruined by women who got pregnant by underhanded means -- Think turkey baster -- had the child by choice and claimed child support. By law, regardless of how often the man gets visitation, he still has to pay her, possibly more than he has the means to and she gets a free meal ticket.

Believe it or not, this happens with disturbing frequency. Not that I think you're being sexist, but don't discount the possibility of females taking advantage of males with pregnancy.

 

[Heronblade]

I'm a bit conflicted on this issue to be frank, and to some degree it depends upon just how inebriated the man was at the time.

From the perspective of a sober man taking advantage of a drunk girl, I would find his behavior thoroughly disgusting, and would gladly compare his actions to rape. (the occaisional reversed situation I would probably feel less strongly about, not because it is morally different, but due to the decreased risk for the man in that case)

From the perspective of both being heavily drunk, therefore not fully in control of their decisions, and both consenting at least in name, it becomes difficult to accuse either party of anything more than stupidity. In this case, I would frankly have little sympathy for either of them, regardless of the consequenses.

Put into your situation, I'd have some difficulty forgiving my partner, not over the actions discussed here, I can honestly understand that her decisions were not her own, but because I have little to no patience for those who deliberately corrupt their own thought processes via substances such as alcohol. I would like to think that the one I cared for would be able to face this world sober.

 

[intheweeds]

I'm not denying that anyone can doing. I'm not saying that gender is the sole factor, merely that's it's a very large one, and shouldn't be dismissed.

Oh, I know. And I agree. But, somewhere several pages ago, someone was talking about how you can't tell what a rapist looks like, so you have to be cautious around any man you don't know because he could potentially be one.

I was merely expanding on that. Anyone could be.

Just like anyone could be a murder.

When you say that any man could be a rapist, it creates images of fearing all men because of what they might do.

When you say that everyone could be a murderer, it creates a more... general caution. People (or most people) don't avoid everyone because anyone could be a killer - they just accept that fact and proceed with caution.

That's a healthier perspective with rape. If you acknowledge that anyone COULD be, you can proceed with caution without being afraid of everyone. I think a lot of "bad feminists" get into the trap of believing that all men should be treated as rapists. And that would be as bad as treating every single person as if they were an axe murder.

One can be cautious and take personal responsibility without treating a person who has committed no crime as if they are a criminal simply because they're capable of it.

Also, when you say "everyone is capable" you are forced to include yourself. If a woman says "all men" then she is removing herself - men are, but she isn't. If she says "everyone" then she must admit that she is capable of that act herself. It changes the attitude.

Anyway, I'm rambling. You get the idea. I'm not trying to deny facts - I actually think that people should be more aware of how many people are hurt by rape each year - but we won't get anywhere with an "us vs them" attitude.

Rape is a problem for everyone - and we all need to work together and take personal responsibility to prevent rape.

This conversation you guys are having made me think of something i said a few pages back. See this is what confuses me about this situation:

I have some wonderful men in my life of all ages who i love and trust. Some of them have warned me to be careful around men. More than one has told me "men think differently when it comes to sex, you can't trust them", during a conversation about how i should be careful. I don't want to paint men with any kind of brush, but what is a woman supposed to think when she is being told by trusted men that men cannot be trusted when it comes to sex? Obviously not all men are pigs, I'm being told these things by men i love and trust and who have my best interests at heart? A few of which I have had sex with and are very definitely not pigs? Paradox anyone?

So should i not be worried about men and sex?

EDIT: wow that came off bad. I'm not trying to sound evil. I really just don't understand. That was the reason for making this thread in the first place was to get guys true thoughts rather than whatever i can figure out with my limited understanding of men's minds.

 

[fenrizz]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Sometimes I hate these forums. They're just ridiculously sexist/misandrist.

Full of ludicrous generalisations and willful ignorance.

I really should stop coming into these threads, they just inevitably upset me.

Women are not physically capable of getting a guy pregnant and never being seen again. Is that not a fact? I'm not trying to be sexist. When a woman gets drunk and fucks a guy, she puts herself at risk of pregnancy. When a guy does it he puts someone else at risk of pregnancy. That is simply a natural fact.

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Um... ahem.... **raises hand**

Hi. I'm female (just in case my profile name wasn't obvious enough). And I was in pretty much this situation, but with the genders reversed. And I was the seducer.

I'm not much of a drinker. I don't like going over a 3 on the drunk scale. Warm, a little tipsy, but not much more than that. At least not socially.

I've slept with guys who were drunk off their asses. Probably not a 10, cause I doubt they could "function" that drunk, but guys who were way drunker than I was. And there was one case where it was with someone who I knew was dating one of my friends. There were... other issues involved, but it was basically your situation, gender reversed.

So... yeah. Not saying it was right - it was certainly one of my more "super *****" moments, and one I'm not particularly proud of.

But, while I agree that the guy in your situation was a pig, I wouldn't say that it would never happen the other way. Women are as capable of shirking responsibility and taking what they want as men. Trust me.

you don't have the physical capability of getting a guy pregnant and fucking off never to be seen again though. If you actually had a dick would it change how you felt/acted?

Very one sided view I must say.
Woman have the ability to become pregnant, keep the child, deny the father visitation (or at least keep it to the bare minimum which is every 2nd weekend where I live) and claim child support.

...She has had to go through being pregnant alone, and now is a single mother who's education and future is mostly fucked while the man, although he may feel sad, can really do whatever he wants. He can keep it a secret from the whole world if he wants...

I think you might have missed the important bit: "Can claim child support". I've seen men's lives ruined by women who got pregnant by underhanded means -- Think turkey baster -- had the child by choice and claimed child support. By law, regardless of how often the man gets visitation, he still has to pay her, possibly more than he has the means to and she gets a free meal ticket.

Believe it or not, this happens with disturbing frequency. Not that I think you're being sexist, but don't discount the possibility of females taking advantage of males with pregnancy.

That was the point I was trying to make.
I guess I'm just very skilled at debating.

 

[Sperium 3000]

She's a ****. He's not exactly exempt from moral reprehensibility, either, but she's still a ****.

Alcohol impairs your judgment, but I've never understood how people can claim that alcohol will make you change your mind about something. Devout Christians don't get wasted and suddenly become apostates. Nobody gets wasted and suddenly finds pop-country music to be enjoyable. Would she have slept with him had she not been drinking? Perhaps not, but her actions indicate that she would have, at the very least, entertained the idea.

Was it a good idea on his part? Probably not, considering that she could take him for all he's worth and probably send him to prison for a good chunk of time based on her story. Aside from the legality of the issue, though, I don't find that he did much wrong. Sure, it's not nice for you, but if she were single most guys probably wouldn't have much of an issue.

THERE IS... LOGIC... ON WHAT YOU SAY...


Thought I should note that I think both parts are equally to blame. It takes two to cheat.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Spoiler

Oh, I know. And I agree. But, somewhere several pages ago, someone was talking about how you can't tell what a rapist looks like, so you have to be cautious around any man you don't know because he could potentially be one.

I was merely expanding on that. Anyone could be.

Just like anyone could be a murder.

When you say that any man could be a rapist, it creates images of fearing all men because of what they might do.

When you say that everyone could be a murderer, it creates a more... general caution. People (or most people) don't avoid everyone because anyone could be a killer - they just accept that fact and proceed with caution.

That's a healthier perspective with rape. If you acknowledge that anyone COULD be, you can proceed with caution without being afraid of everyone. I think a lot of "bad feminists" get into the trap of believing that all men should be treated as rapists. And that would be as bad as treating every single person as if they were an axe murder.

One can be cautious and take personal responsibility without treating a person who has committed no crime as if they are a criminal simply because they're capable of it.

Also, when you say "everyone is capable" you are forced to include yourself. If a woman says "all men" then she is removing herself - men are, but she isn't. If she says "everyone" then she must admit that she is capable of that act herself. It changes the attitude.

Anyway, I'm rambling. You get the idea. I'm not trying to deny facts - I actually think that people should be more aware of how many people are hurt by rape each year - but we won't get anywhere with an "us vs them" attitude.

Rape is a problem for everyone - and we all need to work together and take personal responsibility to prevent rape.

Ah, ok, I see what you mean. I definitely agree that there should be more awareness and social responsibility towards this issue.

 

[intheweeds]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Sometimes I hate these forums. They're just ridiculously sexist/misandrist.

Full of ludicrous generalisations and willful ignorance.

I really should stop coming into these threads, they just inevitably upset me.

Women are not physically capable of getting a guy pregnant and never being seen again. Is that not a fact? I'm not trying to be sexist. When a woman gets drunk and fucks a guy, she puts herself at risk of pregnancy. When a guy does it he puts someone else at risk of pregnancy. That is simply a natural fact.

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Um... ahem.... **raises hand**

Hi. I'm female (just in case my profile name wasn't obvious enough). And I was in pretty much this situation, but with the genders reversed. And I was the seducer.

I'm not much of a drinker. I don't like going over a 3 on the drunk scale. Warm, a little tipsy, but not much more than that. At least not socially.

I've slept with guys who were drunk off their asses. Probably not a 10, cause I doubt they could "function" that drunk, but guys who were way drunker than I was. And there was one case where it was with someone who I knew was dating one of my friends. There were... other issues involved, but it was basically your situation, gender reversed.

So... yeah. Not saying it was right - it was certainly one of my more "super *****" moments, and one I'm not particularly proud of.

But, while I agree that the guy in your situation was a pig, I wouldn't say that it would never happen the other way. Women are as capable of shirking responsibility and taking what they want as men. Trust me.

you don't have the physical capability of getting a guy pregnant and fucking off never to be seen again though. If you actually had a dick would it change how you felt/acted?

Very one sided view I must say.
Woman have the ability to become pregnant, keep the child, deny the father visitation (or at least keep it to the bare minimum which is every 2nd weekend where I live) and claim child support.

...She has had to go through being pregnant alone, and now is a single mother who's education and future is mostly fucked while the man, although he may feel sad, can really do whatever he wants. He can keep it a secret from the whole world if he wants...

I think you might have missed the important bit: "Can claim child support". I've seen men's lives ruined by women who got pregnant by underhanded means -- Think turkey baster -- had the child by choice and claimed child support. By law, regardless of how often the man gets visitation, he still has to pay her, possibly more than he has the means to and she gets a free meal ticket.

Believe it or not, this happens with disturbing frequency. Not that I think you're being sexist, but don't discount the possibility of females taking advantage of males with pregnancy.

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Sometimes I hate these forums. They're just ridiculously sexist/misandrist.

Full of ludicrous generalisations and willful ignorance.

I really should stop coming into these threads, they just inevitably upset me.

Women are not physically capable of getting a guy pregnant and never being seen again. Is that not a fact? I'm not trying to be sexist. When a woman gets drunk and fucks a guy, she puts herself at risk of pregnancy. When a guy does it he puts someone else at risk of pregnancy. That is simply a natural fact.

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Um... ahem.... **raises hand**

Hi. I'm female (just in case my profile name wasn't obvious enough). And I was in pretty much this situation, but with the genders reversed. And I was the seducer.

I'm not much of a drinker. I don't like going over a 3 on the drunk scale. Warm, a little tipsy, but not much more than that. At least not socially.

I've slept with guys who were drunk off their asses. Probably not a 10, cause I doubt they could "function" that drunk, but guys who were way drunker than I was. And there was one case where it was with someone who I knew was dating one of my friends. There were... other issues involved, but it was basically your situation, gender reversed.

So... yeah. Not saying it was right - it was certainly one of my more "super *****" moments, and one I'm not particularly proud of.

But, while I agree that the guy in your situation was a pig, I wouldn't say that it would never happen the other way. Women are as capable of shirking responsibility and taking what they want as men. Trust me.

you don't have the physical capability of getting a guy pregnant and fucking off never to be seen again though. If you actually had a dick would it change how you felt/acted?

Very one sided view I must say.
Woman have the ability to become pregnant, keep the child, deny the father visitation (or at least keep it to the bare minimum which is every 2nd weekend where I live) and claim child support.

...She has had to go through being pregnant alone, and now is a single mother who's education and future is mostly fucked while the man, although he may feel sad, can really do whatever he wants. He can keep it a secret from the whole world if he wants...

I think you might have missed the important bit: "Can claim child support". I've seen men's lives ruined by women who got pregnant by underhanded means -- Think turkey baster -- had the child by choice and claimed child support. By law, regardless of how often the man gets visitation, he still has to pay her, possibly more than he has the means to and she gets a free meal ticket.

Believe it or not, this happens with disturbing frequency. Not that I think you're being sexist, but don't discount the possibility of females taking advantage of males with pregnancy.

That was the point I was trying to make.
I guess I'm just very skilled at debating.

oh yeah see i can see that. I guess i'm thinking of the two strangers drunk in a bar scenario when i'm discussing this, rather than this woman has any idea who this guy is or if she'll ever see him again to claim child support. I'm talking a bout a more classic one night stand scenario. You're point is valid though.

 

[Keepeas]

I think that on the scale "of 1 to 10 where 1 is 'extremely sweet and respectful towards women' and 10 is 'this guy would have fucked her if she was passed out'"
This is a 9.

In this type of situation,
I think it's equivalent to (girls drunken rating - the guys drunken rating):

ex. girl: 8 on drunk scale
guy : 4 on drunk scale
disgust rating: 8-4 = 4


btw,
I have absolutely 0 experience with alcohol, I don't understand why people drink the stuff...
And ladies be responsibly when you drink, in the end you'll feel better about yourself.

 

[Grospoliner]

Intoxicated sex = rape. The law states that a person must be fully cognizant and capable of consenting.

 

[Helios_(DEL)]

Well its a difficult situation problem is, is the girlfriend aware she gets randy like this when drunk? And if she is genuanly upset and discusted in herself i belive that the couple can move on and get over it, i mean if you love each other enough to get over it you will dont throw history with this girl over a stupid mistake that was partly to blame on alchol.The boyfriend however has every right to be upset and the person that took advantage of the woman that was in the relationship needs to relise the wrong doing here.

 

[fenrizz]

Intoxicated sex = rape. The law states that a person must be fully cognizant and capable of consenting.

My opinion is that this is an insult to all woman who are actually raped.

Drunken sex is not rape, I don't care what the law says, it is not rape.

 

[Deus mortuus est]

None of them are exactly saints in this situation, alcohol isn't an excuse to be unfaithful (if you care about that), but everyone knows that you don't hook up with people who are shitfaced, not only is the sex worthless but it's borderline rape, no matter if it's a man or woman.

So, I'd say that both are equally guilty for the unfaithfulness, the guy should get tried for rape if she feel that it's called for and you both should think over your relationship. I've never cheated on my SO, even though I've had plenty of chances, both when sober and intoxicated and I'm a firm believer that if you do, there's something that isn't right in the relationship.

She might be looking for excitement, try spicing up the sex life perhaps