A question to the grown adult men of the Escapist

[Brandon Logan]

The internet might not be the greatest place to come for help. In my opinon guys who do things like this are pigs.

 

[LokiArchetype]

People who are saying it is rape are
a) treating sex as something men do to women instead of an activity both engage in
b) treating consent as something only women give and that for a man its a given that he wants sex

If both parties were intoxicated, saying the girl isn't legally able to consent but the guy is is a plain as day double standard. If she's not responsible for consenting, neither is he.

Just as being drunk doesn't absolve the guy of doing what he did, neither does it absolve the woman of her responsibilities.

If instead of screwing some guy she instead hopped into her car and ran over one of your closest relatives, would you still think her diminished capacity to make judgments relieve her of any responsibilities for her actions?

Both are morally repugnant, the woman especially so if she's trying to frame the other guy as a rapist to save face in her relationship.

 

[Jeralt2100]

It's an unfortunate situation and I'm sorry that you're having to go through it. Having read all the replies in the thread I doubt I can offer any 'new' insight that hasn't already been given but I will outline the few bullet points that stand out to me.

1. Your gf obviously trusted this man enough to be 10 on a scale of 10 drunk with him, and at least in my experience it would take a great deal of trust to drink that much alone with anyone.

2. This guy knew she was in a committed relationship with you, and knew that under normal circumstances she'd never sleep with him.

3. He came on to her and she didn't stop him.

Now I realize that a large amount of alcohol was involved with both parties, and yes alcohol can cause men to do some pretty stupid things but in this case he took advantage of her.

A more important question to ask, and one you should ask him once you calm down enough to speak to him without killing him is: Does /he/ feel bad about this? If he does, genuinely, then while it was deplorable it's something you chalk up to too much booze imbibed by both of them.

If he /doesn't/ or you suspect he's not being truthful in telling you that he does, then he's a genuine scumbag. I don't agree with what happened in either case, I think both share some fault, but if he knowingly took advantage of an opportunity like that then he's a rapist. If he was so sloppy drunk he didn't know what he was doing and she didn't either, then it's an equal fault in my eyes. Not good, certainly something you NEVER want to happen, but those are just my thoughts.

I don't know him she's only met him twice before very briefly and he showed up after one in the morning when she was already hammered at a party way out of town at her work where she had already planned to stay and couldn't go home that night.

I would lean toward 'scumbag/rapist' in that case, but if they are only brief acquaintances then it's also probably true that his understanding of your relationship isn't on the same level as someone you've known for a long time.

My point is though, he may feel /just/ as bad about this as she does. Then again he might be bragging to his buddies about it, you won't know until you confront him about it. I'm not defending the guy, I'm only saying that his feelings for this aren't a known factor yet, and they're just as important to the resolution than yours and your girlfriend's.

If he's truly sorry and disgusted with himself over how he acted, would that not tone down some of those violent thoughts you're having? While at the same time if he's bragging, it would intensify them.

 

[Princess Rose]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Um... ahem.... **raises hand**

Hi. I'm female (just in case my profile name wasn't obvious enough). And I was in pretty much this situation, but with the genders reversed. And I was the seducer.

I'm not much of a drinker. I don't like going over a 3 on the drunk scale. Warm, a little tipsy, but not much more than that. At least not socially.

I've slept with guys who were drunk off their asses. Probably not a 10, cause I doubt they could "function" that drunk, but guys who were way drunker than I was. And there was one case where it was with someone who I knew was dating one of my friends. There were... other issues involved, but it was basically your situation, gender reversed.

So... yeah. Not saying it was right - it was certainly one of my more "super *****" moments, and one I'm not particularly proud of.

But, while I agree that the guy in your situation was a pig, I wouldn't say that it would never happen the other way. Women are as capable of shirking responsibility and taking what they want as men. Trust me.

Edit: Just read the new information on him and her not knowing one another well. That wasn't the case in mine - he and I knew one another very well.

 

[the27thvoice]

I'd never do it. Not even sorry for the girl, even bat shit hammered she should say no. If she's too drunk to say no, she's been drinking too much, that's her fault. But I'd never come on to anyone in a relationship. Either they would turn me down, or they would be the kind of person I don't want to be involved with.

 

[intheweeds]

It's an unfortunate situation and I'm sorry that you're having to go through it. Having read all the replies in the thread I doubt I can offer any 'new' insight that hasn't already been given but I will outline the few bullet points that stand out to me.

1. Your gf obviously trusted this man enough to be 10 on a scale of 10 drunk with him, and at least in my experience it would take a great deal of trust to drink that much alone with anyone.

2. This guy knew she was in a committed relationship with you, and knew that under normal circumstances she'd never sleep with him.

3. He came on to her and she didn't stop him.

Now I realize that a large amount of alcohol was involved with both parties, and yes alcohol can cause men to do some pretty stupid things but in this case he took advantage of her.

A more important question to ask, and one you should ask him once you calm down enough to speak to him without killing him is: Does /he/ feel bad about this? If he does, genuinely, then while it was deplorable it's something you chalk up to too much booze imbibed by both of them.

If he /doesn't/ or you suspect he's not being truthful in telling you that he does, then he's a genuine scumbag. I don't agree with what happened in either case, I think both share some fault, but if he knowingly took advantage of an opportunity like that then he's a rapist. If he was so sloppy drunk he didn't know what he was doing and she didn't either, then it's an equal fault in my eyes. Not good, certainly something you NEVER want to happen, but those are just my thoughts.

I don't know him she's only met him twice before very briefly and he showed up after one in the morning when she was already hammered at a party way out of town at her work where she had already planned to stay and couldn't go home that night.

I would lean toward 'scumbag/rapist' in that case, but if they are only brief acquaintances then it's also probably true that his understanding of your relationship isn't on the same level as someone you've known for a long time.

My point is though, he may feel /just/ as bad about this as she does. Then again he might be bragging to his buddies about it, you won't know until you confront him about it. I'm not defending the guy, I'm only saying that his feelings for this aren't a known factor yet, and they're just as important to the resolution than yours and your girlfriend's.

If he's truly sorry and disgusted with himself over how he acted, would that not tone down some of those violent thoughts you're having? While at the same time if he's bragging, it would intensify them.

It would help quite a bit, but i will never be able to confront him. Hes the brother of her boss in a job she had over the summer at the last party of the summer. To put icing on the cake he is quite a bit older than her. I'm still not calling him a rapist, I'm just putting this into perspective a little here. I can't confront him to find out how he feels now, nor if she were pregnant or infected in some way would we be able to find him easily. but I can't help but infer some of his attitude from the situation. Perhaps i am wrong or biased for thinking so, but that's how i feel.

 

[Zorak the Mantis]

She asks you several times if you have a condom and you say no, but have sex with her anyway. She doesn't stop you.

This right here is where I have a problem with this guy. Yes they were both drunk, but that is not an excuse, if he doesn't have the decency to respect her wishes to be safe than he is just taking advantage of her. It's also her fault for being that intoxicated to allow him to do it. I'm giving him a 10, since she is pretty much gone by your description.

Now as for the cheating aspect, both parties are to blame. I don't think it's right what they did, but everyone views sex in and out of relationships differently. Unless she was in an open relationship or something similar than she is wrong for leading this guy on and letting him make a move. If this guy knew she was in a relationship then he is just disrespecting her boyfriend and their relationship.

Also, I'm a 23yo guy and I've been in similar situations and stopped. I guess I just have a stronger moral conviction than this fellow. I've also been cheated on in a similar manor by my ex, so I may be a bit biased in my accusation.

 

[Thaluikhain]

All PEOPLE are potential rapists, gender is completely irrelevant.

How is it?

Whether or not the figure is 98% or not, men are still overwhelmingly the perpetrators of sexual assaults, and women are overwhelmingly the victims. Regardless of the generally unexamined horrors of male rape, gender is still a big factor.

 

[Sperium 3000]

Well I don't drink and I happen to be blindly loyal to my loved one, so I'd say a guy that does that is simply a rotten dirty bastard like all the other rotten dirty bastards that exist everywhere. Condom or not, drunk or not, the very act of cheating is a grave offence in my book, the other factors only serve to agravate it.

 

[Doclector]

I'd put it at a seven. It's bad, but when both parties are monumentally drunk things get complicated. And drunk dies not mean mentally absent. You still have values, so they shouldn't be tossed aside so easily.

 

[intheweeds]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Um... ahem.... **raises hand**

Hi. I'm female (just in case my profile name wasn't obvious enough). And I was in pretty much this situation, but with the genders reversed. And I was the seducer.

I'm not much of a drinker. I don't like going over a 3 on the drunk scale. Warm, a little tipsy, but not much more than that. At least not socially.

I've slept with guys who were drunk off their asses. Probably not a 10, cause I doubt they could "function" that drunk, but guys who were way drunker than I was. And there was one case where it was with someone who I knew was dating one of my friends. There were... other issues involved, but it was basically your situation, gender reversed.

So... yeah. Not saying it was right - it was certainly one of my more "super *****" moments, and one I'm not particularly proud of.

But, while I agree that the guy in your situation was a pig, I wouldn't say that it would never happen the other way. Women are as capable of shirking responsibility and taking what they want as men. Trust me.

you don't have the physical capability of getting a guy pregnant and fucking off never to be seen again though. If you actually had a dick would it change how you felt/acted?

 

[Zorak the Mantis]

I happen to be blindly loyal to my loved one, so I'd say a guy that does that is simply a rotten dirty bastard like all the other rotten dirty bastards that exist everywhere. Condom or not, drunk or not, the very act of cheating is a grave offense in my book, the other factors only serve to aggravate it.

This exactly

 

[OtherSideofSky]

I would say that any moral responsibility is split evenly between the two, but I would also add that no responsible and intelligent person should ever permit themselves to be that drunk. Taking advantage of a person under the influence would be despicable, but in a case like this of both people being totally smashed neither can be said to have been entirely in their right minds and are therefore equally responsible for what they did. I don't think the actions in question reflect an attitude towards women so much as a general lack of responsibility on the part of both participants.

 

[Princess Rose]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Sometimes I hate these forums. They're just ridiculously sexist/misandrist.

Full of ludicrous generalisations and willful ignorance.

I really should stop coming into these threads, they just inevitably upset me.

**blink**

You and I are weirdly in sync today. We both replied to the same messages with similar replies - granted, yours were grumpier than mine, but still.

Seriouly, check out the page 6. I suggested that everyone was a potential rapist (a thought that depresses me) and you said the same thing. Then I replied to this message by saying that this situation has in fact happened to a woman (me). Again, more sad than angry.

At this rate, I expect your next message to be a message to me (written before you read this) saying "hey, we just said the same thing".

 

[CplDustov]

if being drunk doesn't excuse behaviour then that must apply to her too in the case of "gagging for it". Even if she were angry... I know she'd forget after. I don't think I'd feel comfortable. If I had been drinking my own judgement of her state would also be clouded so it could happen if I were also 8/9 on the scale... having said that alcohol desensitizes so it's unlikely a guy THAT drunk even could.