A question to the grown adult men of the Escapist

[Blunderboy]

That's something I would never even consider.
Yes I've shared more then a few drunken kisses, but never when either one of us is involved with anyone and it was always when there was a pre-existing attraction.
Anyone doing this is an abysmal example of humanity.
I?d at least hope that most guys would feel the same.

 

[SckizoBoy]

Depends if the guy's sober or not, but considering the likelihood that there's going to be a lot of ethanol based products flying around, that's not probable. And getting drunk was hardly a prerequisite of social intercourse.

In such cases, both parties are as culpable as each other. Being drunk is just an excuse, but hardly a reason for justifying it. It was the guy's responsibility to respect the girl's relationship status, but the girl's responsibility to remember that she is in a relationship.

No disrespect, OP, but the bit about condoms is neither here nor there, because all responsibility has already flown out the window for moral questions to be asked about 'safe sex'. However, regardless of level of 'drunk', 'asking to touch her' is what may swing it towards it being the guy's fault (though many will point to the girl not objecting as being the material point).

Thus, if I was the girl's boyfriend, I'd be pissed at both.

 

[intheweeds]

1 it's a definitive 1. I mean she really looked like she was okay with it then it's her responsibility too. I doubt anyone would be outraged if the foot was on the other shoe and she began touching him.

What about the fact that you knew damn well she wouldn't do it otherwise? And MOST importantly, she has a partner and you don't have a condom? This doesn't factor?

Perhaps she changed her mind? Have I known the guy years or is he just a spectre of a man? Is there visible signs of STD? Is she still wanting it without?

I'm really getting into this...

There aren't visible signs of an STD (whatever that means -there doesn't need to be and if you think there does you are being very naive), but there is a major risk of pregnancy and this guy is known to associate with sketchy people. She didn't change her mind, believe me. She is very disturbed right now by the whole situation. She wishes it had never happened very badly.

 

[Rex Fallout]

Here is the situation. First of all, notice that I am female so this is most definitely not me we are talking about and the situation didn't happen to me, but never the less affects me deeply. Anyway here is the scenario:

A girl is very drunk. An 8-9 on the 1-10 scale of sober to passed out drooling. You know her, you know she has a serious partner and would never entertain you sober. You come on to her asking if you can touch her. she agrees. she seems into it. She asks you several times if you have a condom and you say no, but have sex with her anyway. She doesn't stop you.

I know scales suck, please explain yourself if you reply. On a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 is 'extremely sweet and respectful towards women' and 10 is 'this guy would have fucked her if she was passed out', how bad and/or normal is this guys mindset?

I obviously don't understand male sexuality at all and in my eyes this is extremely disgusting. Like, devastatingly disgusting. I have been in a situation where a girl was naked and begging for it and i left. She was so drunk and horny she was actually pissed at me at the time. But I couldn't have lived with myself the next day, I knew she would never have been there if she wasn't beyond capacity hammered.

What do you think?

*sigh* look, the sad thing is, at least from what I have seen, that a great majority of guys are assholes when it comes to this sort of thing. There are nice guys who wouldn't do it and would probably have stopped said girl from getting drunk in the first place but for the great majority... However with that said, most guys will also, when in public, say that this is a completely disgusting thing that they would never do. And that they would beat the living $#!@ out of the guy who did. Whether or not they really would can't be told until the time actually arises. And I refuse to blame alcohol. Personally being someone who sees it as poison and disgusting, people just shove the blame off on it. Guess what? You drank it. You knew what it could do to you. What happened afterwards are consequences of your actions plain and simple.

I wouldn't say it's just men who act like this either though. Men and women both are assholes. I've seen tons of examples on both sides of the fence.

There are the nice guys out there who would gladly help the girl out and make sure the guy didn't do anything, but girls don't really go drinking with the nice guys they know right? Girls talk about always wanting to be with a 'nice guy', but that's BS.

Anyways I rambled off. Any ethically sound moral guy would say that it is disgusting.

 

[Rawne1980]

I'm going to (probably) disgust a lot of folks out there reading this (mainly because they all act a bit prudish and try to come across as "nice" folk).

There are a hell of a lot of blokes out there that have sex with drunk women when they are drunk themselves. We call them one night stands and they happen on a regular basis at least on a weekend.

I also know there are blokes reading this that have done it themselves.

We've been in a nightclub and pulled a lass when we're barely able to remember our own name, took them home and had sex and then woken up the next morning, ordered them a taxi and probably forgot their name.

I've had many 1 night stands before I met my wife and I could only tell you one of their names, and thats because she is my sisters friend (elder sister not younger, her friend was 11 years older than me).

It happens.

Anybody out there who has never encountered people like that and thinks it's a random event has lived a very, very, sheltered life.

As for the OP, it depends on the whole story. We only have your perspective and i'd need all perspectives to make a judgement. For example do you know for sure she wouldn't have been interested or did she harbour feelings that took her to be drunk to act on? How drunk was the bloke?

 

[intheweeds]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

 

[Chrishu]

Class, no class. You know what that's called here in California? RAPE.

 

[Von Strimmer]

Well, has the guy been drinking at all? You don't mention that in the original post, and clearly alcohol can affect judgement. I think it also depends how close friends the two are. If they are very close I think that makes it worse.

I would say that it is pretty bad on the whole, even if the guy is also drunk. From the original post, it sounds like the guy made the move and the girl went along with it. So knowing that she has a boyfriend and wouldn't normally entertain his advances, the guy is in the wrong. But, the girl is also in the wrong, as she is perfectly happy to cheat on her boyfriend, and alcohol doesn't absolve someone of that.

Overall, I think I'd rate them both at about a 6-7. I feel bad for the girl's boyfriend in all of this.

I feel bad for the boyfriend, emotionally.. however, logically, he now hopefully knows exactly the type of person his girlfriend is. If he can't trust her while impaired, unless she decides to teetotal, he should probably drop her.

Agreed. This poor bloke doesn't need this. He should talk to her about it, find out if there are underlying issues and if she just did it for the sake of it she is not relationship material. He should still talk to her though she deserves THAT much if its a serious relationship

 

[Svenparty]

1 it's a definitive 1. I mean she really looked like she was okay with it then it's her responsibility too. I doubt anyone would be outraged if the foot was on the other shoe and she began touching him.

What about the fact that you knew damn well she wouldn't do it otherwise? And MOST importantly, she has a partner and you don't have a condom? This doesn't factor?

Perhaps she changed her mind? Have I known the guy years or is he just a spectre of a man? Is there visible signs of STD? Is she still wanting it without?

I'm really getting into this...

There aren't visible signs of an STD (whatever that means -there doesn't need to be and if you think there does you are being very naive), but there is a major risk of pregnancy and this guy is known to associate with sketchy people. She didn't change her mind, believe me. She is very disturbed right now by the whole situation. She wishes it had never happened very badly.

1.I risk it

2. I assume I can run away from the responsibilities of being a father? Also I am kind of dating someone who's boyfriend associates with sketchy people so this is okay too.

3.Can I sense her fear or is she just lying there ready?

 

[Craorach]

I agree with you that she should have restricted her drinking, but I never said she came on to him, in fact he came on to her and she didn't explicitly say no or try to stop it other than ask if he had a condom. I don't know how forceful the situation was beyond that. Does that change anything about your opinion?

My apologies... however, no. Unless he actually, physically, forced her.. or she felt in danger.. or was physically incapable of stopping him/saying no/walking away.

I'm aware the law doesn't agree with me, however... it is only forced if force is involved, being drunk is something people become of their own volition. It does not forgive their actions while drunk, under any circumstances, are regardless of the severity of those actions.

If you know you're judgement is impaired while drunk.. do not get drunk in situations where impaired judgement might matter.

 

[spartan231490]

Well all guys are different for a start. And when you add alcohol into the mix you fuck up the scale even more.

So basically, there is no answer. It's like asking 'on a scale of 1-10 how likely is an average girl at a club DTF?' Everyone's different.

What is DTF, first of all?

I know all men are different, that's why I'm asking what you think of this guy in this situation. I would like to get a gauge of what men think of this. I already know what women think. What do you think of this guy? Is he an ass if so why? If not, why?

DTF? Look it up on Urban Dictionary. It's a pretty common expression.

As I said in my edit of my previous post. Taking advantage of drunk girls for sex is not cool, especially if they've got a partner. But I reserve judgement because I don't know how drunk the other guy was in this situation. We all make mistakes when we've drank too much alcohol, that includes both the guys and ladies.

Alcohol doesn't change who you are, and it's not an excuse for something like this. A person is responsible for their actions, even when drunk. Personally, I think they're both pretty poor excuses for human beings, but I would rate the guy at slightly worse, operating under the assumption that he was more sober, and based on the fact that he initiated(as stated in the OP).

Also, why are so many people talking about blame?

I find it extremely disgusting, however.... it is 100% not all the male's fault.

She is responsible for her own actions. Coming onto someone and consenting is her own fault, no matter how drunk she is. If she knew she would get like that around someone while drunk, she should have restricted her drinking to only with her partner.

If she didn't know how she would react when drunk, she should have restricted her drinking to around people she trusts until she did know.

People seem to think being drunk is an excuse for poor behaviour, or absolves them of their guilt in it. It doesn't. Nobody forces alcohol down your throat when you don't want it.

Edit I would put it at 5.. she came onto him, and didn't have the self control to stop it when she wanted, that is her fault.. he is not a gentleman, but he is certainly not some kind of monstrous rapist.

This isn't a scale of 1=chick's fault 10=guy's fault. This is a question about how this individual feels about and treats women. Just because the chick carries as much of the blame doesn't mean they both have to be 5's, they could both be 1's, or they could both be 10's, it's not like their total score has to equal 10.

 

[spartan231490]

Depends if the guy's sober or not, but considering the likelihood that there's going to be a lot of ethanol based products flying around, that's not probable. And getting drunk was hardly a prerequisite of social intercourse.

In such cases, both parties are as culpable as each other. Being drunk is just an excuse, but hardly a reason for justifying it. It was the guy's responsibility to respect the girl's relationship status, but the girl's responsibility to remember that she is in a relationship.

No disrespect, OP, but the bit about condoms is neither here nor there, because all responsibility has already flown out the window for moral questions to be asked about 'safe sex'. However, regardless of level of 'drunk', 'asking to touch her' is what may swing it towards it being the guy's fault (though many will point to the girl not objecting as being the material point).

Thus, if I was the girl's boyfriend, I'd be pissed at both.

The OP didn't ask who's fault it was. She asked what we thought the guy's opinion and behavior towards women is.

 

[Von Strimmer]

On second thought there isn't enough information to go on. Was she alone? were you there op? is she and bloke mates? has she done this before? is the relationship on edge? SO MANY QUESTIONS!

We cant say whether this is bad or not because we dont have enough intel to go on. As it stands they were both wrong and thats really it at the moment.

 

[Blunderboy]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Really? Do you know how this statment makes you sound?

 

[intheweeds]

I agree with you that she should have restricted her drinking, but I never said she came on to him, in fact he came on to her and she didn't explicitly say no or try to stop it other than ask if he had a condom. I don't know how forceful the situation was beyond that. Does that change anything about your opinion?

My apologies... however, no. Unless he actually, physically, forced her.. or she felt in danger.. or was physically incapable of stopping him/saying no/walking away.

I'm aware the law doesn't agree with me, however... it is only forced if force is involved, being drunk is something people become of their own volition. It does not forgive their actions while drunk, under any circumstances, are regardless of the severity of those actions.

If you know you're judgement is impaired while drunk.. do not get drunk in situations where impaired judgement might matter.

To me its not a question of legality it's a question of morals. Personally, I couldn't live with myself knowing i risked two people like that, one of which wasn't even around to say anything, just so i could get my rocks off. We will have to agree to disagree, GREATLY.

 

[otakon17]

That's fucked up. If your any self-respecting person, you'd NEVER do that if you ask me. Taking advantage of someone who's bombed out of their gourd is just wrong. As for where the blame lies, the guys definitely in the wrong for moving in on the situation. I'd say a 7 for him. Once again, fucked up.

 

[Iron Mal]

I'm fairly certain that more guys have a sense of decency and standards than the usual 'men are pigs' stereotype would have most of us believe so if forced to answer on a 1-10 scale I'd have to say the average guy is probably under 5. Most guys probably wouldn't find themselves in that situation, for the most part we tend to know better than that.

Yeah, you'll find examples of men who probably would sink to the lowest levels of depravity and do more than just take advantage of said drunk woman in that situation but for the most part people aren't inherantly bad (it's just that we hear about the obnoxiously loud and ignorant ones most of the time).

Just taking the situation by how you described it, both parties involved (man and woman)could be called out on their actions and neither could really claim to have done nothing wrong (taking advantage of anyone while drunk is mean spirited and morally wrong and in the case of the girl here, she has a partner in a relationship, drunk or not she's betraying the trust of that partner which is pretty dispicable in itself).