A question to the grown adult men of the Escapist

[intheweeds]

Unfortunately OP, there's a whole bunch of important information that we're not party to. Was the guy drunk as well. Was he in a relationship? Was she happy in the relationship she was already in, or was she unhappy with her boyfriend? This is the sort of stuff that pushes guys and girls into cheating.

Now, regarding the situation as I see it with the info you've given: the guy isn't exactly a gentleman or a saint. But the woman explicitly asked if he had a condom. That right there is an invitation for sex. Not only did she not turn down his advances earlier, she asked if he had protection with him. If she didn't want to have sex, then ultimately she could and would have said 'No' at any point earlier in the night.

Where I'd give the guy some flak is that he didn't use a condom. That's just not cool. That's the sort of mistake you make when you're a teenager: ie, young and stupid. As an adult, he should know better than that. If it's not someone you're in a steady relationship with, then wrap it up in a raincoat. Simple as.

Lastly, I'm speaking as a guy who has slept with girls in relationships before. And therefore, my last point would be: whatever went on, it's none of your business. To me, it reads as two adults deciding to fuck. Regardless of how drunk they were, whether they were in a relationship, if the dude wasn't exactly a gentleman, it's their private business. If the girl comes to you because it turns out he was a douchebag, then fine, get involved and tell her what you think. But at the moment, yor post reads as like you don't approve of what they decided to do, so therefore you're going to talk dissaprovingly about it.

People fuck everyday. A lot of the time, it isn't romantic, or lovely. A lot of the time, it's simply two people getting drunk and getting physical with each other. Sometimes it's just stress relief. No matter what it is, as long as it was consensual (which you imply that it was), then there's no call for you to go round dissaproving what your friend does. This is the 21st Century. Don't turn into your friend's chastity belt. They went out of style hundreds of years ago.

maybe it would help to let you know I am the 'bloke' she cheating on.

 

[Kekkles]

It's a bit of a dick move to come onto someone who is clearly too drunk but at the same time she still said yes and continued. I've been at that point where I am so rat-arsed that I can't see or stand but I can still make the decision whether or not to cheat on my lover. Personally I believe both people are in the wrong.

 

[spartan231490]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

That's a bit naive. I'm sorry, but it's true. This situation happens in reverse, all the time. I know people who have experienced it in one way or another.

Class, no class. You know what that's called here in California? RAPE.

If he was inebriated as well, which is likely, then legally they raped each-other in many states. You know how that goes over in court? Poorly.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I obviously don't understand male sexuality at all and in my eyes this is extremely disgusting. Like, devastatingly disgusting. I have been in a situation where a girl was naked and begging for it and i left. She was so drunk and horny she was actually pissed at me at the time. But I couldn't have lived with myself the next day, I knew she would never have been there if she wasn't beyond capacity hammered.

Of course it is, men taking advantage of drunk women is flat out wrong. There can be no justification for doing something like that. Unfortunately, such a viewpoint isn't that widely held, which is why this sort of thing happens so often.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

I'd give the behavior itself a 9.3, since it involves several sleazy and/or stupid behaviors (unprotected sex; sex with someone of diminished decision-making ability, especially with someone already in a committed relationship). However, if the guy was also drunk, that means his ability to discern good behavior from bad was probably shot as well.

This is one of the many, many reasons I don't touch alcohol.

 

[Togs]

The more I read the OP's posts the more she sounds like a misandrist- Im sorry your girlfriend cheated on you but dont you think she deserves some of the blame?

 

[trooper6]

Here's the thing. I grew up in California. And in California really drunk women are not legally able to consent. So what you described in my home state is legally rape. And rape/sexual assault is not okay.

Now, considering the abysmal way we deal with rape and sexual assault in our legal system, there is probably no way this would be prosecuted so the jerk guy is probably safe from rape charges...but being able to get away with a bad thing doesn't make it okay.

People on the board are saying things like "It is her fault"--"She shouldn't have been drinking"--"They are both to blame"--etc.

That is just victim blaming and propagating rape culture.

Don't have sex with people unless they actively and specifically and clearly consent with the word "Yes" to each escalation of the sex act. If we can get it through people's minds that consent is not just the lack of a "no," it is the presence of a "yes"--an uncoerced and honestly attained "yes."
Don't have sex with drunk people even it they "consent."
Don't have sex with sleeping people, even if they consented to sex in the past.
Don't have sex with passed out people.

Also, don't have unprotected sex with people. This guy could have gotten the woman pregnant. This guy could have given the woman an STD or received one.

To answer you question. From the evidence you've given, there is proof the guy is a 9 on the scale. But he probably is a 10.

 

[intheweeds]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Really? Do you know how this statment makes you sound?

No really. Elaborate please. I'm not being sarcastic. I really am curious why you disagree. Women would not take advantage of men like that. Not in the same way. The situation may be similar on the surface, but I can't think of a single woman I know that if they had a dick and could get guys pregnant and knew that they could just take off never to be seen again, that would have this little respect. The truth is the reverse situation is simply not possible.

 

[Craorach]

To me its not a question of legality it's a question of morals. Personally, I couldn't live with myself knowing i risked two people like that, one of which wasn't even around to say anything, just so i could get my rocks off. We will have to agree to disagree, GREATLY.

I don't disagree with you at all.. a little background, I've been with one partner, ever.. and I'm heading into my third decade. I'm not a big fan of casual sex full stop, let alone drunken casual sex with someone who is already in a relationship.

However.. it takes two.. both need to share the blame.

Was he wrong? Yes. Is he to "blame" (thus suggesting she is not) .. no. The fault is on both of them, equally. I don't agree with what he did and consider it detestable but so was her behaviour (presuming as we are that she wasn't forced).

This isn't a scale of 1=chick's fault 10=guy's fault. This is a question about how this individual feels about and treats women. Just because the chick carries as much of the blame doesn't mean they both have to be 5's, they could both be 1's, or they could both be 10's, it's not like their total score has to equal 10.

I'm sorry, but this doesn't speak any more of how he treats and views women, than it does how she treats and views men.

People, often, when they are getting drunk.. loose their inhibitions.. it is a sad fact of society that many consider this a good thing. Everyone who gets drunk, goes into it knowing that this is a fact.

The event speaks volumes about how he views himself, sex, relationships and women... but also how she views those things in equal volume.

 

[thelonewolf266]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Ehmm No.Never say anything like that again that is completely sexist and just wrong.Women aren't all angels and pure of heart they are capable of exactly the same as males and I can 100% guarantee you lots of women have taken advantage of men in exactly the way described in the OP.

 

[Jeran Korak]

This is the kind of thing that makes me glad I live very far away from the nearest bar, club, or social venue. I'd give this a five. I still think it is an idiotic and evil thing, but completely expected as well. It rates low in my book since I've seen and heard accounts I trust of far worse things occuring in this kind of situation.

 

[RicoGrey]

Getting sick and tired of these morality questions involving drugs or alcohol. I do not do drugs, and I don't drink. There is a reason I don't do either.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Here's the thing. I grew up in California. And in California really drunk women are not legally able to consent. So what you described in my home state is legally rape. And rape/sexual assault is not okay.

Now, considering the abysmal way we deal with rape and sexual assault in our legal system, there is probably no way this would be prosecuted so the jerk guy is probably safe from rape charges...but being able to get away with a bad thing doesn't make it okay.

People on the board are saying things like "It is her fault"--"She shouldn't have been drinking"--"They are both to blame"--etc.

That is just victim blaming and propagating rape culture.

Don't have sex with people unless they actively and specifically and clearly consent with the word "Yes" to each escalation of the sex act. If we can get it through people's minds that consent is not just the lack of a "no," it is the presence of a "yes"--an uncoerced and honestly attained "yes."
Don't have sex with drunk people even it they "consent."
Don't have sex with sleeping people, even if they consented to sex in the past.
Don't have sex with passed out people.

Exactly. This shouldn't need to be said.

 

[Arawn.Chernobog]

Most guys were tricked by Hollywood into thinking that Drunk Sex is not only acceptable but really good...

This is false, so very false. It's borderline rape and actually really bad as far as sexual pleasure goes, unless you're into half-falling asleep sex partners and extra bodily fluids (that aren't supposed to happen) as well as an intensified mixture of repulsive odours.

But yeah, nobody can speak for the average man in this regard, all men are different. But the average club goer that is already at the point of fingering the drunk girl? He's definitely up for some bad-borderlinerape-drunk-sex, but he probably considers Jersey Shore to be "great TV" so Average Club-Joe's opinion should be counted for nothing and his actions used as an example for "How to not perform under any situation".


PS: Not to excuse the moronic vapid little girl that drinks herself silly then expects everything to work out ok, no, her actions are AS BAD as Average Club-Joe's actions, you might even go ahead and name her Failed-to-grow-up-past-16 Jane, the Dunce.

 

[Coraxian]

There is no real set of rules for being a man (or a woman, for that matter) and often there is no clear good choice other than either being a loser or being a bastard. You don't want to pick either of those two all too often.

To hit on a girl you know is in a relationship is a serious d**che move in my book though.

As to her being drunk: alcohol lowers inhibitions, it lets you do things you wouldn't dare when sober. The fact she asked about condoms several times gives me the impression that part of her knew what was going on to quite a degree.

On the other hand, how drunk was he? How well was his judgement/ how much inhibitions did he have left?

Women generaly like men to make the first move and if she doesn't say no (and in some schools of thought if she doesn't say no seriously)it's up to the man to continue.

So, my judgement on this is as follows:
The boyfriend has the right to kick this guy's ass. The boyfriend also has a long talk ahead with his girl and I hope things work out for them, but I have my doubts about it (depends on how the guy is and what she will end up thinking of the whole situation).

On the matter of the intoxication, I'll give the d**che the benefit of the doubt and say he probably wouldn't have done that if she was passed out. For the rest I have too little information to make a judgement on the intoxication levels of both parties.

Also, was this at a party? Where were the c**k blockers? They actually serve a purpose, you know . Accomplices, all of them.

 

[intheweeds]

The more I read the OP's posts the more she sounds like a misandrist- Im sorry your girlfriend cheated on you but dont you think she deserves some of the blame?

of course she does. No one said she didn't and i am BEYOND pissed at her, don't worry about that. I'm just curious about the guys side of this. Sorry if I came off wrong. I edited my post a bit for clarity.

 

[pubbing]

This is one of those things that shows the hypocrisy of modern feminism. Feminists parade up and down the street saying "It is my body I can do what I want with it and I alone am responsible for it" when it comes to abortion. But when you are drunk at a bar you loose all responsibility over your body and it is up to the man that you are with to do the right thing.

I call bull shit on that. You are responsible for your body %100 percent of the time and what penis goes in it.(Of course rape is an exception and you are not responsible for that) You are responsible weather that dick happens to have a condom on it or not. If it doesn't and you don't want to than speak the fuck up and say no.

Granted the guy was a dick for trying to get with a taken woman but the girl in this situation has the final say in what goes on with her body. Now she doesn't like what she has done while drunk and is now trying to excuse herself for it.

Fuck that shit.