And I?d counter that when he?s saying skippable, he?s assuming the boss fight is entirely omitted which is not necessary. Should you choose to skip a boss fight, why wouldn?t a tool-assisted run of the boss suffice? The AI would be restricted to whatever items/weapons/tools you currently have at your disposal and essentially do a ?flawless victory? against itself while you watch and take in any exposition or anything else of significance; tool-assisted speedruns are already a thing. Also, each year, someone pits the Super Bowl-bound team against each other in simulation in the latest Madden to see if it might determine the winner.sageoftruth said:So far, I'd say this is the first argument against the idea that actually raised a good point. I'm fine with adding things that don't effect me, but worrying about how they'll affect the design of future games is definitely worth considering.Fischgopf said:It was dumb when Hepler was saying Gameplay should be skippible and it's dumb now.
And what everyone beating the "it doesn't effect other people" drum is ignoring is that if you make Gameplay skippible, you also can't have any of theStory take place during said gameplay. Effectively you've now made the story irrelevant to the gameplay and vice versa. It might as not exist at that point.
Gaming n?eds MORE story relevance during gameplay, not less.
If you do an assisted boss fight to make the boss trivial, then what's wrong with just having an easy mode? or perhaps if you fail too many times on a fight the game offers you an invincibility mode for the fight for you to simply get through it?Xprimentyl said:And I?d counter that when he?s saying skippable, he?s assuming the boss fight is entirely omitted which is not necessary. Should you choose to skip a boss fight, why wouldn?t a tool-assisted run of the boss suffice? The AI would be restricted to whatever items/weapons/tools you currently have at your disposal and essentially do a ?flawless victory? against itself while you watch and take in any exposition or anything else of significance; tool-assisted speedruns are already a thing. Also, each year, someone pits the Super Bowl-bound team against each other in simulation in the latest Madden to see if it might determine the winner.sageoftruth said:So far, I'd say this is the first argument against the idea that actually raised a good point. I'm fine with adding things that don't effect me, but worrying about how they'll affect the design of future games is definitely worth considering.Fischgopf said:It was dumb when Hepler was saying Gameplay should be skippible and it's dumb now.
And what everyone beating the "it doesn't effect other people" drum is ignoring is that if you make Gameplay skippible, you also can't have any of theStory take place during said gameplay. Effectively you've now made the story irrelevant to the gameplay and vice versa. It might as not exist at that point.
Gaming n?eds MORE story relevance during gameplay, not less.
That was less a reflection on women and more on my lazy-ass girlfriend who thinks fuckin' Sound Shapes is an ordeal.Cycloptomese said:HAHA! I know, right? The next thing you know they'll be letting them drive... or even vote!Johnny Novgorod said:It's like they're making games for my girlfriend now.
It's all good. I mostly just couldn't resist. Also, my wife once bragged about beating Fable 2.Johnny Novgorod said:That was less a reflection on women and more on my lazy-ass girlfriend who thinks fuckin' Sound Shapes is an ordeal.Cycloptomese said:HAHA! I know, right? The next thing you know they'll be letting them drive... or even vote!Johnny Novgorod said:It's like they're making games for my girlfriend now.
The verdict is that ?skip? need not necessarily mean ?omit;? there are any number of ways to address getting past a difficulty spike or boss for inexperienced/incapable players that need not affect the game for anyone else, so simply making those players ?suck it up, buttercup? and not afford them the option is an unnecessarily dick-ish and elitist move. Just because ?you? (and that?s speaking generally, not at YOU, CritialGaming,) prefer to and can play a game without assistance doesn?t mean everyone absolutely has to, no questions asked. I keep saying, it?s ENTERTAINMENT; holding it to some inordinately high and austere standard is taking games way too seriously. A couple people in here have drawn direct correlations between easy modes and people?s actual life character? Seriously? If you think how one chooses to enjoy a video game is any indication of how they must behave in real life, then couldn?t you draw the same correlation between, say? video game an real life violence? ?ZOMFG, NO, OF COURSE NOT! THAT?S CRAZY TALK!!!!? Oh, ok; double standard?CritialGaming said:If you do an assisted boss fight to make the boss trivial, then what's wrong with just having an easy mode? or perhaps if you fail too many times on a fight the game offers you an invincibility mode for the fight for you to simply get through it?Xprimentyl said:And I?d counter that when he?s saying skippable, he?s assuming the boss fight is entirely omitted which is not necessary. Should you choose to skip a boss fight, why wouldn?t a tool-assisted run of the boss suffice? The AI would be restricted to whatever items/weapons/tools you currently have at your disposal and essentially do a ?flawless victory? against itself while you watch and take in any exposition or anything else of significance; tool-assisted speedruns are already a thing. Also, each year, someone pits the Super Bowl-bound team against each other in simulation in the latest Madden to see if it might determine the winner.sageoftruth said:So far, I'd say this is the first argument against the idea that actually raised a good point. I'm fine with adding things that don't effect me, but worrying about how they'll affect the design of future games is definitely worth considering.Fischgopf said:It was dumb when Hepler was saying Gameplay should be skippible and it's dumb now.
And what everyone beating the "it doesn't effect other people" drum is ignoring is that if you make Gameplay skippible, you also can't have any of theStory take place during said gameplay. Effectively you've now made the story irrelevant to the gameplay and vice versa. It might as not exist at that point.
Gaming n?eds MORE story relevance during gameplay, not less.
I think the verdict is simply there are far better solutions than an outright skip button. If a person is sooooo badly equipped to play through a game, then they are better off spending their money on other hobbies. But I also don't think that the video game player base has very many people so utterly terrible at gaming that a developer should waste money for extra programming of features that literally skip content that was far more expensive to create.
Exactly this. Folks in here are talking like an option they think is silly for someone who?s not them is somehow innately wrong. I?m not a fan of Easy modes personally, but it doesn?t bother me that they exists neither do I think less of someone who opts to play an Easy mode; more power to ya?, you bought the game too, go have your fun! And as for comparisons to other forms of media, don?t care if you eat your books, smell your movies and taste your radio, doesn?t affect me, your choice, enjoy yourself.McMarbles said:I don't like thing so nobody should have it.
I can agree with this.CritialGaming said:I think the verdict is simply there are far better solutions than an outright skip button. If a person is sooooo badly equipped to play through a game, then they are better off spending their money on other hobbies. But I also don't think that the video game player base has very many people so utterly terrible at gaming that a developer should waste money for extra programming of features that literally skip content that was far more expensive to create.
RaikuFA said:Yep. Because they didn't realize LA Noire or Raymond Origins existed.
Fucking autocorrect.Silvanus said:RaikuFA said:Yep. Because they didn't realize LA Noire or Raymond Origins existed.
Hmmmm...
[https://imgbb.com/]
This is probably correct.Imre Csete said:*sees RPS outrage*
*checks if it's John Walker clickbaiting again*
No surprise there, he is the Dark Souls of hack videogame journalists.
And to add to this, I feel for people with disabilities. I'm sure we all can empathize with that. But there is still a rule of "adapt and overcome" and there have been many instances of people playing with horrible debilitations. Some get help from outside sources, others just learn how to get around it if they have a passion too.Kerg3927 said:This is probably correct.
He's trying to turn this into an SJW-type debate. He's taking an issue that was probably never much of an issue and painting it with SJW colors in order to create a heated debate out of nothing. And it apparently worked.
We've got...
1) But what about the really, really bad or lazy players? What about them? They should be able to complete games, too. If we don't stand up for the little guy, who will??? *torches out*
vs.
2) Really? Give me a f---ing break. Git gud or gtfo.
The reality is that easy-modes have already addressed this issue. They typically allow all but the most terribad players to play through games and complete them. If there is an issue with a particular game, it's likely because that game's easy mode is not tuned easy enough. So complain to that particular developer and ask them to tune it easier. Problem solved.
No need to drastically change the medium. It's fine the way it is. Hopefully developers who saw that article laughed it off as the click bait that it was.
That seems like the worst way to go about it. The whole point of having a skippable/easy mode is to avoid locking away content from people (who would otherwise not be able to finish the game). Making content available only on higher difficulties has always been a bad idea. You want to do something on the hardest mode? Get an easter egg or an achievement.Sonmi said:I'm actually not entirely against the idea, as long as using it locks away content like the ending or the ending level until you go through the whole thing properly. I'd apply the same philosophy to lower difficulty settings as well.
Cuphead had the right idea.
The example given is Cuphead, a Nintendo difficult game that gives the less skilled two choices: play an easier mode which locks off content and prevents you from getting the full ending, or play the regular mode that may well be too difficult to get to the ending anyway. They actually had to make more changes to the game just to punish easy mode players, than if they'd simply kept all the content the same and simply tweaked the numbers (i.e, the number of hits the player can take, the boss's health bar etc).Kerg3927 said:We've got...
1) But what about the really, really bad or lazy players? What about them? They should be able to complete games, too. If we don't stand up for the little guy, who will??? *torches out*
vs.
2) Really? Give me a f---ing break. Git gud or gtfo.
The reality is that easy-modes have already addressed this issue. They typically allow all but the most terribad players to play through games and complete them. If there is an issue with a particular game, it's likely because that game's easy mode is not tuned easy enough. So complain to that particular developer and ask them to tune it easier. Problem solved.
No need to drastically change the medium. It's fine the way it is. Hopefully developers who saw that article laughed it off as the click bait that it was.
Every single part of every game is on youtube in one let's play or another. I watched alot of let's play in my day I tell you whatDr. Crawver said:This is a fair point, except for one thing. Let's plays aren't truly representative to a lot of games. A lot of games feature exploration as a major point of engagement. You can't get that from a lets play. In addition, if a lets play doesn't find certain parts of content, well guess you never get to see it either. Having a solution be at the mercy of other players experiences robs you of your ability to experience it for yourself.kenu12345 said:Going to have to go with the majority here and say at that point, you might as well just watch a youtuber. If you are at a point in a game where you can't continue cause its too hard, skipping won't help you and most likely just hurt you further and I am someone who is okay with phoenix mode in Fire Emblem (A mode that absolutely trivializes the game play) Tis best if they just learn, you would have to have no faith in a human to think they can't after sometime. When I was a kid, the sephiroth fight in kingdom hearts 2 was the hardest thing for me, it took me weeks, but when I finally did it, it felt great that I learned patterns and such. Still something I am proud of to this day. Ain't no shame in going to youtube to watch a game, I know I did for paths I didn't want to go through on certain games
Edit:Though I do feel cheat codes should come back