A Winner Is You

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

Bob, I often find myself disagreeing with you on the topic of games, but not this time.

Spoiler: Here's 10 minutes of Orson Welles clapping

We won a battle, but probably not the war.

Microsoft will probably just slip this stuff back in as an update after they've sold millions of Xbones. At that point it will be too late to say no.

Sure, it's not over yet.

But we so seldom get to taste victory, no matter how small or meaningless in the bigger picture. We shouldn't sell ourselves short when we do, lest we forget and slip back into the same mindset that causes the industry to think it's ok to try crap like the XBone. I've said it a couple times before but:

I hope the rest of the industry was watching the events surrounding the XBone. And that they took notes[footnote]No, not "find sneakier ways of screwing the customer over." Try again.[/footnote].

 

[wulfy42]

You sir, are at least partially wrong.

Sony is a HERO....so are we.

Why? Because if Sony had gone along with Microsoft....if both consoles had the same draconian measures, we would have had no choice if we wanted a console, but to accept them.

So yes, some people would then buy neither....but that would mean no Kingdom Hearts 3, no access to all the mutliplatform games at all...and basically it would mean that it would be a minority of people that would have actually given up console gaming all together. I would have still bought a Ps4 if they added the same restrictions for instance.

So yes, Sony could have pulled the same thing as Microsoft...and they could have gotten away with it. They are, in large part, responsible for Xbox One backing down...and they dealt them a large blow in the process

 

[Zombie_Moogle]

I somewhat disagree. This is certainly a victory for consumers and not corporations, but had Sony revealed much the same requirements for the PS4 during E3, we would certainly not see the same turnaround from Microsoft right now. It would remain to be seen whether such a scenario would result in a mass exodus from Xbox/PS4 to WiiU/PC once the new consoles went on the market, but given consumer history, I remain highly skeptical.

Of course, had we not shown such outrage/dissatisfaction/etc/etc, Sony's rejection the XBOne's requirements, by itself, probably wouldn't have made Microsoft relent, either.

In short, while we are the winners, I don't think that we can claim all the credit. Microsoft took a risk, and Sony made them backtrack.

Yes, the combination was a big factor, but one has to ask: why Sony decided not to implement those kinds of policies?

They almost certainly were being pressured by the publishers to do so (publishers that ran for the hills when they saw Xbox fans simultaneously going nuclear, but still), but still they refused. This was not out of altruism, it was because we were pissed & they knew we were ready to catapult money at the company that was willing to stick it to Microsoft. If we hadn't cared about the anti-consumer policies, they'd have implemented them too

Again, it all comes back to gamers & our legendary vitriol

 

[Jamous]

We won a battle, but probably not the war.

Microsoft will probably just slip this stuff back in as an update after they've sold millions of Xbones. At that point it will be too late to say no.

That's why we have to keep fighting. We can't let them get away with this bullshit. We have to cause unbelieveable amounts of uproar if we want to stop them doing this shit. We've won once. That means we can do it again.

In other news that was a surprisingly uplifting and inspirational article. Thank you Bob.

 

[RJ Dalton]

No, this does matter. The corporations as a group have gotten far out of hand, not just in the games industry, but in the banking industry, the biotech industry and many others. Protesting the abuse of people by corporate powers is an absolute necessity at this time and any victory, even if it is just against the gaming industry, is good for the higher cause.

So how about we give Monsanto Corporation a sharp kick in the ass now?

 

[tdylan]

We won a battle, but probably not the war.

Microsoft will probably just slip this stuff back in as an update after they've sold millions of Xbones. At that point it will be too late to say no.

That's why we have to keep fighting. We can't let them get away with this bullshit. We have to cause unbelieveable amounts of uproar if we want to stop them doing this shit. We've won once. That means we can do it again.

We won this time because we had leverage: they didn't have our money. Once consoles are in homes they can flip the switch because at that point it's "their way or the highway." They'll already have your money. What are you going to do? "Not accept the update?" Fine. Enjoy being able to use your console for nothing but single player and blu ray. Most of the features that you'd buy an XB180 for require an internet connection. And they'd no doubt make it that you have to enable the DRM in order to get on the internet.

"But that's not what you paid for?" No worries, that's what the EULA, and its "terms subject to change without notice" clause is for.

 

[Trishbot]

Here's my take...

We, the gamers, are heroes... But Sony SUPPORTED us.

And, well, I think that actually does mean something. They're a business. Of course they want money. But, unlike Microsoft, they put their CUSTOMERS above the publishers, and even their own means, and decided to gamble on CUSTOMERS supporting them out of CHOICE rather than necessity. They could've just launched the PS4 with an even playing field with Xbox One, same restrictions, and a cheaper price, but instead decided that they believed in the value of the products they made, and that those products, as bought by customers, were worth supporting and not devaluing through draconian DRM and anti-consumer restrictions.

They're no saints... but they came out, in public, on a stage in front of millions, and announced to the world "we support your right to ownership". That's HUGE. They could've phrased it any other way, but they affirmed your consumer rights in the face of what was surely intense pressure to do what Microsoft did and give in to the big businesses and restrict gamer's rights.

Granted, we may have pressured them to do so, but that's exactly the point. They felt the pressure, surely, and didn't just go along with it but fully threw their support behind it to a degree I've NEVER seen a huge company do.

Even with the 180 Microsoft pulled, Sony support is unbelievably high because we all know Microsoft's lack of respect for customers, caving in ONLY when they have no alternative ("they'll do the right thing, after they've tried everything else"), while Sony began the next console generation with a message that they'll support the gamers, pick the gamers over the publishers and short-term profits, and, shockingly, customers will flock to a company that treats them with respect.

If nothing else, Microsoft's Xbox One provided me with nearly a month of constant entertainment. I'm almost sad they reversed their policies, because each morning was like Christmas where yet more bad news came out to be mocked and torn apart from the gaming community. For the first time in AGES, the fanboys by and large stopped fighting and banded together to fight policies so awful that no amount of Halo could fix them.

 

[Verlander]

No we didn't.

Sony took a business advantage of the situation, simply by promising us a halfway decent product, and Microsoft had to back down out of competitiveness. Had Sony had the same DRM, the same online necessity, the same everything, then no one would have backed down.

The only things worth celebrating is that a) The PS4 was so underdeveloped that Sony could announce whatever the hell they liked, and b) They managed to convince (or lie to) upper management to not include those money making details. The games industry is an oligopoly, and the only thing remarkable here is Sony attempting to jump the pack once more.

 

[Mike Richards]

Sony has over the years built up slightly more trust from me than Microsoft, mostly for seeming to have a better grasp of what people actually want and how to be nice to your consumer base. So the question of whether or not they would have enacted the same policies if they thought they could get away with it is one I don't think I'll ever be able to properly answer. This is still a massive win for us and a good sign of changing tides overall.

That being said, I do have one minor nitpick. While I don't certainly don't think every game has to be some grand literary masterpiece, gaming on a whole is not a toy and these companies are not toymakers.

The possibility exists for things that are nothing more then fun little diversions just as much as it exists for those grander literary works, and trying to simplify things down to one side or the other isn't good for us. Games aren't just Mario and they aren't just Journey, we should be happy about that.

 

[tdylan]

No we didn't.

Sony took a business advantage of the situation, simply by promising us a halfway decent product, and Microsoft had to back down out of competitiveness. Had Sony had the same DRM, the same online necessity, the same everything, then no one would have backed down.

The only things worth celebrating is that a) The PS4 was so underdeveloped that Sony could announce whatever the hell they liked, and b) They managed to convince (or lie to) upper management to not include those money making details. The games industry is an oligopoly, and the only thing remarkable here is Sony attempting to jump the pack once more.

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and ask what are these "money making details" that you feel Sony omitted?

 

[hermes]

You sir, are at least partially wrong.

Sony is a HERO....so are we.

Why? Because if Sony had gone along with Microsoft....if both consoles had the same draconian measures, we would have had no choice if we wanted a console, but to accept them.

Not really. I mean, its nice that Sony didn't go that route and the response forced Microsoft hand to take a good look at their policies, but make no mistake... Sony didn't go through that route because:
1- They didn't thought about it, not at the level MS had.
2- They were cowards enough not to jump suit.
3- They saw it as an opportunity to get an advantage over Microsoft.

We all knew this was coming. We all heard the rumors, saw them patent weird technologies and prepared ourselves for the punch, because we knew sooner or later, they would say "the new consoles uses technology that prevents used games". The only reason we were distrustful was this: whoever jumped first, all the other had to do to gain a huge amount of goodwill was to step back. It was an "either all of us do it, or no one does" situation. It happened, in E3 nonetheless; and as soon as people saw the backlash, all publishers turned back, all of them started saying "we didn't know about this", "we didn't agree to this", "we are discussing our plans with MS" (when we all knew they were the most interested in all this). I am not saying I liked MS policies (god no), but I won't kid myself thinking Sony was fighting the "good fight".

The reason is simple. Consider this "what if" scenario. Microsoft doesn't turn back. The publisher doesn't abandon ship; and in fact start ostracizing Sony of most AAA games because it doesn't give them enough guaranties against used games and piracy. As a result, games like Call of Duty XXIII, Final Fantasy XVIII, FIFA XXII and Assassins Creed IX become Microsoft exclusives. At that point, do you think Sony would stick to their guns as say "we are loyal to our customers"? Or will they include a half-baked equivalent of MS policies in a mandatory patch? Sony's stand and Microsoft's change of heart are not motivated by loyalty, but by cunning.

And Bob, this reaction is nice and all, but you should tone down the back padding. This kind of "industry listening to fans reaction" is not new. In fact, it has happened in this generation several times. While I was reading your article, I was listening to Gaider's talk in GDC (Highly advisable http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/194571/Video_Sexism_and_sexuality_in_games.php) and it all went full circle. Remember when Bioware had to redo the ME 3 ending because the backlash has reached creepy levels (with packages sent to their offices and people getting death threats)? That was the industry listening to fans reaction. Remember all the issues with Anita's videos, or Street Fighter 4 tournament? That was the industry listening to fans reaction. Remember the whole debate of Bioshock Infinite having Booker on the cover (at that time, the stereotypical white male protagonist) with a big gun because they were told "games with women on the box don't sell"? That was the industry listening to fans reaction. The truth is the industry listens to fan reaction all the time, and its scared of us (or, at least, scared of the most vocal section of us), scared of their contempt. That is the reason we have hundreds of games that look the same, all the protagonists look the same: because the industry listen to their fans, and the fans value nothing more than the status quo in our little club.

So, yes... today it was "the good fight". We should be proud of the power we had to prevent Microsoft from turning our hobby into something more excluding and restrictive. But we shouldn't gloat over it. We have a great power (and also a great responsibility) that we should always use to make our hobby a more open and diverse place, because sometimes status quo is not a good thing.

 

[KeyMaster45]

Nobody "won" anything and anyone who says otherwise isn't looking a the big picture. We've just entered the age of microsoft, sony and nintendo becoming political parties.

I'm disgusted at all this back patting silliness. Anyone who sees the events of the last week as a positive thing, well, I'll tell you I told you so, just saying.

Hi Cliffy B! I didn't know you maintained an account here?

 

[LetalisK]

Not having backwards compatibility is suffering an indignity now? Isn't that a little dramatic?

 

[Lightknight]

A lot of the indignities that we actually suffer are due to us not having options. Sony became our leverage by being an alternative. We aren't giving them the victory, we're sharing in it and right so. Sony deserves credit for their part as do we for being the kind of consumer that makes our voices heard and finally the ones that speak with a wallet.

Without Sony as a fortress of viable alternatives to Microsoft, I do not think the market would have been able to vote so heavily with their wallets. Had both console companies allied themselves in this crazy anti-consumer daredevil act then you would have seen people preordering the way they would have anyways without any change to policy.

Hopefully this will continue to snowball into a fantastically miserable generation for Microsoft. It'd be nice to send a clear and long lasting message to companies that this kind of thing can happen if they so much as try it. Hopefully that would head off some of what would have been successful attempts to deprive us of our license use rights.

As for backwards compatible. Not sure I'd call that an indignity. At least one of the brands has an actual reason for doing that.

 

[tdylan]

Ironic that Bob takes this stance, when he blasted the same culture who complained about the poor quaility of the Mass Effect 3 ending, Because like the Xbox One, the company in charge of that product essentially bullshitted the fans and screwed them over.

Nailed it! I tip my hat to you, sir.

 

[Rakschas]

Well that is all nice and dandy but here is what everyone is not talking about?

What price will we pay for keeping region free games, used game sales and always online requirement? Be certain we will pay a price. Thats the nature of things and dont delude yourself that your proclaimed victory came at no cost at all.

Here is what the consumer wants, the same thing as before, just improved in its existing attributes. That's the extent of his phantasy. You will always find a majority of customers to back these demands.
Great. Now here is what the same majority of consumers will not ever provide you. innovation.

Innovation is the forte of enterpreneurship. Where once there was ice in the winter, there was soon ice home delivered from a central artifical cooling unit and soon after there were affordable home cooling units.
Customers didnt evision and put them into your homes. Visionaries who sold the idea to you did, even though you were doing just fine before.

If you got that, let it sit for a moment. You killed of innovation for the sake of focusing on improving existing distribution systems. Don't think that the next time some ventrue capitalist looks at this market, he will have forgotten the shitstorm you unleashed.

Contratulations, once the dung of the shitstorm has settled it will kill of the seed of enterpreneurship that the industry as a whole has nutured so carefully over the last 10 years.

This isnt the end of the world however. There will still be people who innovate. There will still be new ideas and new concepts. Just less and more restriced than there eventually would have been.

Which brings me to a closing question. Can it be that our generation of 20-30's something largely male gamer demographic is actually afraid of major changes?

 

[Mr. Omega]

Ironic that Bob takes this stance, when he blasted the same culture who complained about the poor quaility of the Mass Effect 3 ending, Because like the Xbox One, the company in charge of that product essentially bullshitted the fans and screwed them over.

Yes, because a bad ending is CLEARLY equal to having to check in online every 24 hours and leaving the ability to share and trade games you own up to publishers. I mean, its so obvious.

Anyway, good on Microsoft to get rid of the stupid DRM policies. Now if only they had games I gave a crap about...

 

[frizzlebyte]

Ironic that Bob takes this stance, when he blasted the same culture who complained about the poor quaility of the Mass Effect 3 ending, Because like the Xbox One, the company in charge of that product essentially bullshitted the fans and screwed them over.

Nailed it! I tip my hat to you, sir.

If people want to say that video games are art, then people need to stop getting indignant every time a game doesn't end the way they want it to. Books don't all have happy fun-time endings. Movies don't all have happy fun-time endings. Why are gamers entitled to dictate that a game series should?

You can't have it both ways.