About Relationship Sanctity....

[VladG]

Well no, by competing without any consideration for others you're a worse person for it.

That's her consideration to make, not his.

It is his too. He knows what she is doing and what his participation is doing.

Also looking at it as a competition which implies she's a prize to be won is pretty disgusting.

But she is a prize. There is really no way around that fact. You might not like to look at it that way, but why do you think the expression "Winning her heart" (or "Conquer her heart") were invented in the first place?

Because of a certain view of things. Views don't make it so.

Whether or not you look at a person as a prize is irrelevant (because it IS a prize). How you CARE about your prize is relevant. Is it the most important prize you've ever won in your entire life, a prize that you will care for a polish every day? Or is it just another trophy to be put on the shelf while you go out and try to get a new one (because you like bragging about how many prizes you won or like "bagging trophies" or whatever)? THAT is what's important.

Erm, no, people aren't prizes. It would be silly as then what, you're both prizes? It's a mutual agreement.

You do have a narrow-minded view. Why do you confuse "prize" with "object"? And yes, of course it goes both ways, it's a matter of perspective. Consider her/his affection your prize for being worthy for said affection.

 

[Athinira]

It is his too. He knows what she is doing and what his participation is doing.

And if "Infidelity" is the problem, it's still her job to turn him down. Period.

Because of a certain view of things. Views don't make it so.

Erm, no, people aren't prizes. It would be silly as then what, you're both prizes? It's a mutual agreement.

I'm just going to point to VladG's post after my first one. It explains pretty accurately why you're wrong.

Even a mutual agreement is useless if you can't "win" the agreement of the other person to begin with. You have to convince them somehow to join the agreement with you, and there are typically other people in line to make the same agreement with the person instead of you. Therefore, it's a competition about who can "seal the deal".

 

[KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life]

Base physical attraction is no reason to cause harm higher up on the Hierarchy of Needs.

There are two options for a normal person, but if there's no possibility of breaking up with the formal partner, then to run around on them is selfish and cruel. Not to mention hedonistic.

 

[Lilani]

Hell no. That is a horrible position to put them in, both the person you know and the boyfriend/girlfriend you don't. Make your feelings known if it bothers you that much, but to make advances? That's just shows you don't have respect for the decisions they've made in pursuit of what makes them happy.

And there are just far too many people in this world to get mixed up in that sort of drama for a relationship, and especially just a lay.

 

[VladG]

Well, if you don't know the guy, I say fuck him and go for it. Seriously, it's a competitive world, and courting is just another form of competition. The best man wins (more or less)

That doesn't mean her cheating on the guy. No, that's shitty. Legitimate break-up because you actually do like someone else more is ok.

Well no, by competing without any consideration for others you're a worse person for it. Also looking at it as a competition which implies she's a prize to be won is pretty disgusting.

All life is competition, and looking at it differently is naive.

And to take me pointing out that a lack of consideration for others isn't nice as saying there was no competition is idiotic. Also, life itself is not a competition. There are many in it, but no it itself is not a competition. It's not naive to not try to be all edgy or whatever.

To get a job you have to compete with others applying for the same post.

Oh my because I said competition didn't exist!

Is this wrong?

Because I totally said competition itself was wrong. Or wait, I didn't.

No, because being the best man for the job means you bring the most benefit to the employer.

Lolno. It isn't wrong in the case of a job, but hardly because of how it is for the employer.

Competition doesn't mean you have to be a dick about it, you don't go and cripple the other applicants so they can't show up for an interview, no you just display superior ability for the job.

Sleeping with someone who is in a relationship is being a dick.

A worse person for it? Really?? Competition is the BASIS of all evolution, of all growth.

Can you read? If I remind you that I said "lack of consideration" will you be able to read those words or will you make more idiotic mistakes like trying to pretend that I said competition made you a worse person?

Also, evolution has nothing to do with this at all.

Prize to be won? No, and that's a very narrow-minded view. In every relationship you've won over someone else simply because you are a better partner to your girlfriend/boyfriend. Making someone happier than they would be with someone other than you is objectifying? Is that really how you think?

It's not narrow minded of me to point out that one competes to win something.

Also it's naive of you to always pretend that whoever wins in the end was better. Lett's all live in a nice little world where only the best in fact win.

Making someone happier? As if that was the stated goal. As if that is something you can know or even come close to judging without bias given the situation.

I've said in my OP that cheating is a shitty thing to do, and he should go for it if she breaks up with the other guy. That's not a lack of consideration. So either you didn't bother to read my post (funny that) or you just try to make me look like an asshole so you'd have a point to make. Also note that I don't care if I'm considered an asshole for my views. I stick by them

As for the best man wins. Yes. Always. "Best" however is a very subjective notion.

Going back to the real situation, if he is in fact worse for her he will in turn lose her, she will hopefully learn something from the whole thing. If not too bad, she will repeat the mistake until she does.

And yes, I stick by my advice. In the long run it's best for everybody.

 

[Agayek]

My theory has always been that people are responsible for their own partners. If you have a boyfriend or girlfriend, it's your choice whether you want to sleep with someone else. The person you're jumping into bed with with has no responsibility to look after your relationship for you. Your friends can always give you advice, and it's good to appreciate honest advice from your friends because it beats being lied to, but ultimately.. it's your decision. If you're okay with cheating, then fine, but it's your responsibility to handle it and any potential consequences.

Of course, I also think anyone is perfectly within their rights to account for whether someone is willing to lie to people they supposedly care about in an appraisal of their character. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to cut them off or even that you can't sleep with them, but if someone is willing to cheat on a partner, even to your advantage, I think that can tell you a lot about them.

I personally wouldn't ever go there again unless the person in question is incredibly hot or something about the situation is sufficiently interesting. My experience is that sleeping with people you can't respect seldom makes you feel very good about yourself, even putting aside any potential issues of guilt or exploitation.

Pretty much exactly this. It's their responsibility to handle it. It's not something you need to worry about.

That said, someone willing to cheat on their partner isn't exactly someone I'd want to spend a whole lot of time with, so be careful about it all.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

if you know that your actions are going to hurt someone, propagate deceit and dishonesty, and probably most important indulge what is a clearly an uncontrolled mind and its desires, then you don't fucking do it. Stop trying to decide what you can and can't get away with and try and do what's right.

It's not about what you can get away with, it's quite possibly more fun if you do get caught, it's about what you want to do. Don't you agree? Life is about wanting to do something and then doing it, if you want to put compassion for someone you've never met then you do that; if you want to have sex with some hot girl then you do that. Or is it all about doing what's right over what you actually want?

You don't fuck someone if they have made a promise to someone else that they won't.

Tell me, what would happen if you were to fuck someone that had made such a promise?

 

[The Pinray]

I've been cheated on, and have cheated... once. And I've been in a position to cheat on my various girlfriends multiple times.

Now, from my experience I will say no way. Not worth it. If the girl wants to hook up behind her boyfriend's back she's not the best person to be hooking up with. If you want something shallow and sexual-only, find someone single. No use screwing up a relationship.

If you really cared about the girl you wouldn't let her cheat on her guy. Cheating is bad, no matter which way you twist it. Once that trust is broken the relationship can be near impossible to repair.

If you, OP, are in this situation I'd say steer clear. I've been in that situation more than once. It is never pretty.

EDIT: Just to add that if you think a girl that left her guy for you won't turn around and do the exact same to you when the next Escapist comes along then you have quite a bit to learn.

Also, good god, that sentence was hideous.

 

[VladG]

snip

Yes, and you're just being self-serving pretending to be some kind of hero. Now that we have unsubstantiated claims out of the way...

If someone chooses to be with you that isn't a prize.

Self-serving? Yes. Always. We all are.

Some kind of hero? no idea what this is about. What claim?

 

[JoesshittyOs]

I have been in a situation like that, though the guy she was dating was a complete asshat (who ended up cheating on her).

My advice? If you really expect a healthy relationship with that kind of person, you're yanking you're own chain. Someone who would willingly cheat on their own partner like that more often than not is a horrible person.

But I don't view relationships and sexual activities as mutually exclusive, so I didn't lose an ounce of sleep over it. I can't bring myself to care about something like that. It's one of the few heartless things I'll admit to, but in all honesty I have no sympathy for someone who would cheat on their partner, so it's basically just a win/win for me.

 

[senordesol]

If she's up for it and you're up for it, why the fuck not? It's not my relationship I would be destroying so why would I care in the slightest?

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Would you be ok with your girlfriend hooking up with some guy you didn't know?

Whatever your answer, that is your answer.

As a general point, people follow that rule when it's convenient for them to. Don't argue me on that, it won't do you any good.

In any case, no, I wouldn't be okay with my girlfriend hooking up with some guy but I would be okay with some guy hooking up with my girlfriend. Yes, you read that right. He's allowed to try for her favour and, if he succeeds, claim his prize, it's not his job to maintain my relationship. It is hers though, she shouldn't sleep with him and should respect the relationship. I wouldn't resent him for it, he was simply doing what people do, she would have to deal with the consequences of taking a dump on our relationship though.

Of course it goes without saying that you can swap the pronouns as you please. Gender and sexuality play no role in this rule I hold.

I look at it this way: A guy preys upon the weaknesses of a woman for his pleasure and to her detriment. That doesn't sound particularly moral or even neutral to me. Sounds like something an asshole would do (or maybe a dick, if Team America where to weigh in on the matter).

Of course it is her responsibility to maintain her own relationship so -yes- she is the *most* culpable, but that doesn't leave the interloper blameless. I'd argue that the man who would do such a thing clearly does not respect any party involved.

And so when the question is asked 'is it right or ok to do this?', my answer is: so long as you think it's ok to treat other people as your play things and don't mind the same. So, I won't bother arguing that most people don't abide the Golder Rule unless it's convenient because -yes- that is correct. That doesn't mean that ignoring it is right.

 

[Sarah Frazier]

I don't know about 'kids these days' but I would never sleep with someone who's in a relationship, stable or not. Why? Because I have no idea of they really agreed to being exclusive or open. How do you even bring that question up to the other guy? Not only that, but if they're willing to sleep with me, how could I be sure that they're not sleeping with other people as well? Too many doubts, so I'd avoid the mess all together.

That doesn't mean I won't be friends and moral support for the person. And just because they're in a relationship doesn't mean I'll completely stop making dirty jokes and comments because EVERYONE gets it from me, but it won't go anything past crude humor. Then again, I to have issues with touching/being touched...

 

[Yopaz]

I got to say that if I want to enter a relationship I wouldn't want to enter one where the foundation of it was that my partner wasn't honest. It's like telling the Hamburglar to guard your burgers for you while you're out.

Also I wouldn't want to screw up a relationship when I know that my relationship wouldn't live for long anyway... seems like a bad reason to hurt someone's feelings...

 

[Agayek]

It is something for you to consider if you're not being selfish and something of a douche. If someone is going to backstab a friend of theirs that I don't know then I'd be a douche to just stand around and say "Oh well doesn't concern me" when my participation is requried.

And considering it does what, exactly? It's not like turning them down is going to suddenly make them realize what they're doing is wrong. They'd just look to get the itch scratched somewhere else.

You would have a valid point if this scenario was about pursuing someone already in a relationship, but the OP has presented the exact reverse. Her relationships are her business, if she wants to cheat, on her head be it.

Though again, the type of person who would cheat on their partners are not generally the type of people I would enjoy spending time with. Personally, I'd GTFO. That doesn't mean actually doing it is a terrible thing.

 

[Thyunda]

if you know that your actions are going to hurt someone, propagate deceit and dishonesty, and probably most important indulge what is a clearly an uncontrolled mind and its desires, then you don't fucking do it. Stop trying to decide what you can and can't get away with and try and do what's right.

It's not about what you can get away with, it's quite possibly more fun if you do get caught, it's about what you want to do. Don't you agree? Life is about wanting to do something and then doing it, if you want to put compassion for someone you've never met then you do that; if you want to have sex with some hot girl then you do that. Or is it all about doing what's right over what you actually want?

You don't fuck someone if they have made a promise to someone else that they won't.

Tell me, what would happen if you were to fuck someone that had made such a promise?

Then, as I stated before, you would be a coward and undeserving of the title 'man'. You want the benefits, and you're not prepared to work for them, so you indulge in an activity that does not befit anybody who dare call himself a man. It's pathetic, and cowardly, and there is no reason for it.

If you're so much better than her boyfriend, then why is she still with him? Why are YOU the one-off? Which one of you is actually being played? Sure, she's being dishonest and betraying him, but you're nothing but the means to an end. You're not a person, you're a dildo with a body attached.
But if you're okay with that, and okay with being a slave to your base desires, then you go right ahead. Just don't be upset when a real man takes offence and damages something vital.

 

[Kyrinn]

Have some honour man! How are you even considering this?

First off nothing good will come of this. The "but it's her problem not mine" attitude is selfish and douchey. No one likes a douche.

She's already stated that she won't break up with her boyfriend, meaning you are nothing more to her than a sex toy. If you have sex with her all you are doing is reinforcing that fact. You would be acknowledging that you are not really a man, but more some boy that's fun to play with. "BUT YOU HAD SEX MAN YEAH! DO WHAT YOU WANT FUCK YEA SEX! YOUR DESIRES ARE ALL THAT MATTER!". Do you really want to be one of those people?

 

[Maze1125]

So, for sake of discussion, if you were single; would you?

If I were single, and I loved someone who was in a relationship with a third party I didn't know, I would have no moral qualms about pursuing them.

I find the Golden Rule is a fine reply in a number of situations. If you think it's fine to hook up with whatever hoves into view, spoken for or otherwise, then you should be just as fine if a person you're in a relationship with does the same.

I think it sort of weakens your argument if your answer is 'So long as it's no one I know or care about, I'm cool with it.'

You're twisting both what I said and the original question.
The question is "If you're single, and want someone in a relationship, is it okay to try and get them?" and I say "Yes".
That implies nothing about whether or not it's okay for someone in a relationship to go after whoever they like.

A relationship is, in essence, an agreement between two people. A mostly unspoken agreement, but an agreement nevertheless. And that's what it comes down to, the agreement is between those two people, not anyone else. If one of those two people break the agreement, then they have done something wrong, but if someone from outside tries to break the agreement, they haven't done anything wrong, because they were never part of the agreement in the first place.

Put simply:
If you're single, go after whoever you want.
If you're in a relationship, then going after someone else is cheating (unless you're in an "open relationship" or the like).

For me, it's about mutual respect. If someone has made the decision to make someone their significant other, regardless of what I feel about them or they me (and this is not hypothetical), I abide by that choice.

Yet you don't respect them enough to let them decide for themselves?
Maybe they want a reason to escape from that significant other, maybe they don't even realise it, but you could be the chance they need. Yet out of a sense of "morality" you refuse to even let them have the choice?

That's what I'm saying, they're the ones in the relationship, so it should be their choice. If they don't want you, they're quite capable of turning you down.

So it's fine that you trust your wife just as I trust mine. The trust issue is a different matter entirely. It's a respect issue. Beyond that a relationship forged on the foundation of betrayal is just something I would hope very few people would want to be a part of.

I agree, but that's an entirely different matter.

 

[Shadows Risen]

I think it's a bit of a dick-move IF you KNOW s/he has a significant other and then you deliberately try and sleep with them knowing that, I'd hope you get knocked back but I've too little faith in humanity to actually believe that. You'd also be ruining someone's relationship. Yeah, might not be the best relationship, especially if you're cheating but looking through the replies in this thread and seeing some people basically saying "I don't know them, so I don't give a shit even though I'm fucking their life up" just makes me want to head-desk. Repeatedly. Actions have consequences, and I'm pretty sure you'd care if their partner showed up and removed a few vital organs.

If you don't know, then you're pretty much blameless as you thought they were single.

 

[Emperor Nat]

I would never knowingly enter a relationship wherein the other person has a partner. Partially because I have no intention of being assaulted by a jealous boyfriend, but mostly because I think that frankly if you do you're a dickhead.

If they break up with their current partner for you, then that's fine. They made a choice and that's their decision. If you knowingly take actions that will ruin someone's relationship, you are a dickhead.

This goes for them as well. If they cheat, they are a dickhead (replace with female equivalent if necissary). If they leave their partner, that's fine.

If a friend of mine did it, I would have to have a think about whether I would continue being friends with them. Because they're apparently a dickhead now and I hadn't noticed.

Is this understood, OP?

Good boy. Now either ask her to choose or back off.

 

[Blow_Pop]

it really depends on the situation. If they are in a more open kind of relationship where they allow each other to do that without repercussions then it should be fine. Or if they are in a poly relationship where it is allowed then by all means go for it. If you are in a monogamous relationship then absolutely not. And personally I wouldn't want to get involved with anyone in a monogamous relationship willing to cheat on their significant other. Hell I have permission from one of my friends wives to sleep with him and I still haven't done it. I've had permission since last september. Though my reasoning is more I just don't have much of an interest in sleeping with him. I like our friendship as it is and don't want to change it.