About Relationship Sanctity....

[Maze1125]

Y'know, the argument here is whether you'd sleep with somebody who is currently in a relationship. Your arguments are based on encouraging them to separate. The two are completely different things.

For one, I've got nothing against a guy who sees a problematic relationship, sits down with the girl and says "Look, you need to leave." If she chooses to leave and then the guy sleeps with her, whatever. That's fair game.

What's NOT fair game is saying "Oh, they've got problems" and then fucking her. What have you done for her? You've made things worse. The 'Not my problem' attitude is abhorrent. We're all people, we're all in the same community.

You spend most of the post criticising a point that wasn't even the crux of my argument.
My point was never "It must be a good thing to sleep with her." it was "It might be a good thing, you don't know." The "you don't know" was a very significant part. Your alternative solutions wouldn't work, because they would require you knowing about the issues, which you don't.

And, like I say, it was only an example anyway. The point is that it is her life, not yours. She is the one who's choice it should be.
Sure, if you're scared to retribution, or think anyone who cheats is someone you don't want to sleep with, then back off. But those are selfish reasons to refuse to do it, not moral ones.

She is the one who should get to choose if her relationship is worthwhile, not you. There is absolutely nothing moral about taking her choice away from her. Yeah, sure, make the choice for her for selfish reasons, that's fine, we all do that all the time, but don't ever pretend that making a choice for another adult is a "moral" thing to do, because it isn't.

You might not know the guy, but he might be your best friend if you met him under different circumstances.

And? Again, every one of us screws over strangers, in ways we wouldn't with friends, all the time. "He might be a good friend if you knew him." is meaningless.

Course, you didn't treat him like a person and nailed his girlfriend,

That's just hyperbole.

and then you walk off with a 'not my problem'.

When did I walk off again? I pretty sure you just made that up.

This goes to anybody who has ever treated a situation with 'Not my problem'. If you're being held at knifepoint for your wallet, I hope that the cops who show up are on the take, and walk off with a 'Not my problem'.

Wow, you do realise that goes for you too, right?
Either that, or you're working in Africa building mud huts. Or, is that "not your problem"?

I mean, wishing death threats upon everyone who disagrees with you in a discussion on-line? How old are you?

The only thing I have to add (read: emphasize) is that you are not helping anyone by sleeping with this girl, and you are only hurting her (and someone) else in the long-run.

You don't know that. There's already people in this thread who've given examples of long-term relationships coming from situations like this.

This whole "only bad can come of it" line is a demonstrable falsehood that you're clinging onto as though your life depended on it.

Whether or not you 'owe' someone anything is immaterial. Honoring an obligation is the least you can do.

Yes, and it's her obligation, not yours.
As you have absolutely no obligations in her relationship the "least you can do" is anything you want. That's exactly my point.

Making the right decision when it's no skin off your nose either way is the noble and honorable thing to do.

No, that's the obvious thing to do. The noble and honourable thing is to do what is right when it is skin off your nose.

Knowingly making someone else's life worse for your own personal pleasure is immoral. I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise. Just because you enjoy it, or don't care, or don't know the person you're hurting doesn't make it any less so.

So, imagine a scenario, you're applying for two different jobs, both pay the same and have the same prospects. The first you've already been given an offer and, in fact, there were no other candidates, the second you've got the interview for tomorrow and there are several other people going for it. However, you would enjoy the work in the second job much much more than the first.

What would you do? Surely, by your standard, you would simply not turn up for the interview for the second job, as the only thing you were lose is personal pleasure and, if you got it, you could be fairly sure you would cause pain to the other candidates. You've already got the job you need, so you would never even think to try for the more enjoyable one, as that would put someone else out, right?

 

[Thyunda]

-snip-

Nope, I'm not in Africa building mud huts. I have to put my own needs first and start locally, and become a worker with the homeless, finding them work and housing. Putting myself at risk around violence, alcohol and drug abuse for their benefit.

And I don't tend to screw people over because I don't know them. That's not really the sort of thing that everybody does - just you.
And it wasn't a death threat, just hand over your wallet and they'll go away. I mean, it's nothing serious, right? It's just possessions. You can make more money. Everybody screws somebody over at some point, right?

And just because a long-term relationship came of it doesn't make it any more right. Does editing your dying father's will to give you the entire estate suddenly become morally right because you got an estate out of it? No, it's still a despicable act.

Your last example makes no sense. What WOULD be more fitting is if another candidate had already been offered the job, and you quietly slipped a criminal conviction into his resumé and hinted at the employer that he should take another look at it.

 

[Maze1125]

-snip-

Nope, I'm not in Africa building mud huts. I have to put my own needs first and start locally, and become a worker with the homeless, finding them work and housing. Putting myself at risk around violence, alcohol and drug abuse for their benefit.

Ignoring the very significant chance you've just made that up on a spot: You do realise that most people don't do that, right? And, therefore, fall under your "deserve to be held at knife-point" category, right?

And I don't tend to screw people over because I don't know them. That's not really the sort of thing that everybody does - just you.

No, it really is the sort of thing most people do. I've already given examples, you conveniently ignored them.

And it wasn't a death threat, just hand over your wallet and they'll go away. I mean, it's nothing serious, right? It's just possessions. You can make more money. Everybody screws somebody over at some point, right?

Uh, it's practically a death threat by definition.
By holding someone at knife-point for their wallet, the threat is "Give me your money, or I'll take your life." That's 'threatening someone with death', ya know, a "death threat".

If he's not actually threatening me with the knife, what incentive would I have to give him my wallet?

Just a thought, have you ever watched an anime called "Death Note"? You'd probably really like the main character in that.

And just because a long-term relationship came of it doesn't make it any more right. Does editing your dying father's will to give you the entire estate suddenly become morally right because you got an estate out of it? No, it's still a despicable act.

I did not say "It's good because good came from it." I said "It's not true that only bad things comes from it, here's a counterexample."

Manipulating my words like that just makes you look like you don't have a response to what I actually said.

Your last example makes no sense. What WOULD be more fitting is if another candidate had already been offered the job, and you quietly slipped a criminal conviction into his resumé and hinted at the employer that he should take another look at it.

Again, I never said I was making an analogy. I was giving an example where most people would violate senordesol's "golden rule of morality".

 

[Thyunda]

-snip-

Nope, I'm not in Africa building mud huts. I have to put my own needs first and start locally, and become a worker with the homeless, finding them work and housing. Putting myself at risk around violence, alcohol and drug abuse for their benefit.

Ignoring the very significant chance you've just made that up on a spot: You do realise that most people don't do that, right? And, therefore, fall under your "deserve to be held at knife-point" category, right?

And I don't tend to screw people over because I don't know them. That's not really the sort of thing that everybody does - just you.

No, it really is the sort of thing most people do. I've already given examples, you conveniently ignored them.

And it wasn't a death threat, just hand over your wallet and they'll go away. I mean, it's nothing serious, right? It's just possessions. You can make more money. Everybody screws somebody over at some point, right?

Uh, it's practically a death threat by definition.
My holding someone at knife-point for their wallet, the threat is "Give me your money, or I'll take your life." That's 'threatening someone with death', ya know, a "death threat".

If he's not actually threatening me with the knife, what incentive would I have to give him my wallet?

Just a thought, have you ever watched an anime called "Death Note"? You'd probably really like the main character in that.

And just because a long-term relationship came of it doesn't make it any more right. Does editing your dying father's will to give you the entire estate suddenly become morally right because you got an estate out of it? No, it's still a despicable act.

I did not say "It's good because good came from it." I said "It's not true that only bad things comes from it, here's a counterexample."

Manipulating my words like that just makes you look like you don't have a response to what I actually said.

Your last example makes no sense. What WOULD be more fitting is if another candidate had already been offered the job, and you quietly slipped a criminal conviction into his resumé and hinted at the employer that he should take another look at it.

Again, I never said I was making an analogy. I was giving an example where most people would violate senordesol's "golden rule of morality".

Except Senordesol never even implied that competition was in any way immoral. And as for what you actually said, I'm having major issues concentrating on one thing at a time, so I may need you to give me a numbered list. This happens sometimes.

And I didn't make up the support work. It started as part of a scheme to get me work experience - they offered me for English Heritage. I wound up at an old church, which doubled as a homeless shelter. Course, I didn't realise this till after the voluntary work started, but I grew to love it. And yes, there were dangerous times, and in the end, I like to think I've done a lot of good.

And, well, maybe he's bluffing. Maybe it'll be okay. But then, it's not his problem if you leave in an ambulance. You chose to gamble with your life. It's not his responsibility to make sure you survive the ordeal. You were the one with the choice - lose your money or your life - and you made your choice. He's got what he wanted, and you've been fucked over. Why should he care?

 

[Kathinka]

i wasn't trying to imply some mystical nonsense here, sorry for the confusion.

what i meant was that if someone can be convinved to cheat or leave his partner, then their relationship was obviously not a very good one. hence my oppinion: go for it. other peoples loyalty is not your responsibility.

I hear you, but still respectfully disagree. People are complicated. Social dynamics are complicated. Sexual dynamics are EXTREMELY complicated. Perfectly healthy relationships can be momentarily vulnerable for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of the partnership.

Honestly, it would be good if more people were cognizant of just how unbelievably fragile even strong relationships can be. We might take them for granted less. Of course, then the stress and worry would kill us, so maybe not...

true, people and how they interact are incredibly complex and complicated. but there is stuff that you just don't do, like sleeping with people without consent of your partner. and really, it is not that hard, if you really want to.

so i still think; if you are interested in someone, and that someone is in a relationship, his or her fidelity is not your problem or responsibility.

Encouraging them to not be faithful is something you would be responsible for though. You are encouraging them to do something that would be wrong for them to do.

his or her fidelity is not your problem or responsibility.

That is absolutely true, in that if you saw him or her flirting with another stranger, you would not be required to leap in and tackle them in order to stop the infidelity.

However, that's very different from the situation here, where you ACTIVELY AID in the breaking of that commitment. It's not like you're just some passive bystander; you're making the choice to interact with someone who is in a relationship, a choice that you know will cause emotional distress for others.

all well and true. but if i want to pursue a relationship with someone, i merely offer them the option. he or she has to make the choice, be faithfull to their current partner, or be with me. her or me, it's simple. the person i approached always has the option to make the decision as he sees fit. if he thinks i'm the better choice and i'm also interested in him, why would i say no?

 

[Maze1125]

Except Senordesol never even implied that competition was in any way immoral.

I never said he did. Again, you're ignoring what I actually said.
I gave an example where most people would cause suffering to others for their own pleasure. Which is precisely what he said was always immoral.

And as for what you actually said, I'm having major issues concentrating on one thing at a time, so I may need you to give me a numbered list. This happens sometimes.

You have the list, just read over my posts again and pay attention, the only thing missing are the numbers, but I'm sure you can cope with that.
If you still have problems, take your time and read over them again rather than presuming you know what I'm talking about after a skim read.

And I didn't make up the support work. It started as part of a scheme to get me work experience - they offered me for English Heritage. I wound up at an old church, which doubled as a homeless shelter. Course, I didn't realise this till after the voluntary work started, but I grew to love it. And yes, there were dangerous times, and in the end, I like to think I've done a lot of good.

Good for you, I'm still not obliged to believe it, but that doesn't matter, as you're still ignoring my main point, that most people don't do that, and so fall under your "deserve a death threat" situation.

And, well, maybe he's bluffing. Maybe it'll be okay.

Immaterial, it still a fucking death threat either way.
Stop trying to weedle out of the fact you wished death threats on the majority of the human race Mr "Moral High Ground".

But then, it's not his problem if you leave in an ambulance. You chose to gamble with your life. It's not his responsibility to make sure you survive the ordeal. You were the one with the choice - lose your money or your life - and you made your choice. He's got what he wanted, and you've been fucked over. Why should he care?

Well, he obviously doesn't care, and as you said, the Police are corrupt. So he's got no reason to.

As for the moral issue, he's either stolen from me, which I'm sure you'll agree is wrong, or he stolen from me and caused me serious injury, which I'm sure you'll agree is wrong as-well.

Neither of those things are true in the scenario of sleeping with a stranger's girlfriend, and so none of the morality carries over.

 

[Thyunda]

Except Senordesol never even implied that competition was in any way immoral.

I never said he did. Again, you're ignoring what I actually said.
I gave an example where most people would cause suffering to others for their own pleasure. Which is precisely what he said was always immoral.

And as for what you actually said, I'm having major issues concentrating on one thing at a time, so I may need you to give me a numbered list. This happens sometimes.

You have the list, just read over my posts again and pay attention, the only thing missing are the numbers, but I'm sure you can cope with that.
If you still have problems, take your time and read over them again rather than presuming you know what I'm talking about after a skim read.

And I didn't make up the support work. It started as part of a scheme to get me work experience - they offered me for English Heritage. I wound up at an old church, which doubled as a homeless shelter. Course, I didn't realise this till after the voluntary work started, but I grew to love it. And yes, there were dangerous times, and in the end, I like to think I've done a lot of good.

Good for you, I'm still not obliged to believe it, but that doesn't matter, as you're still ignoring my main point, that most people don't do that, and so fall under your "deserve a death threat" situation.

And, well, maybe he's bluffing. Maybe it'll be okay.

Immaterial, it still a fucking death threat either way.
Stop trying to weedle out of the fact you wished death threats on the majority of the human race Mr "Moral High Ground".

But then, it's not his problem if you leave in an ambulance. You chose to gamble with your life. It's not his responsibility to make sure you survive the ordeal. You were the one with the choice - lose your money or your life - and you made your choice. He's got what he wanted, and you've been fucked over. Why should he care?

Well, he obviously doesn't care, and as you said, the Police are corrupt. So he's got no reason to.

As for the moral issue, he's either stolen from me, which I'm sure you'll agree is wrong, or he stolen from me and caused me serious injury, which I'm sure you'll agree is wrong as-well.

Neither of those things are true in the scenario of sleeping with a stranger's girlfriend, and so none of the morality carries over.

You're the mugger, the girlfriend's the wallet, the money's the relationship, and your victim is a stranger. And you left the wallet in the gutter for him to find on his way home. You took the money of course.

 

[Maze1125]

You're the mugger, the girlfriend's the wallet, the money's the relationship, and your victim is a stranger. And you left the wallet in the gutter for him to find on his way home. You took the money of course.

Right, so what you're saying here is that women are property that can be stolen and I'm threatening the boyfriend's life to get his girlfriend.

Glad we're on the same page...

But you've pretty much confirmed what I already knew. This whole "it's immoral for you to even try" stance is based pretty much purely on the idea that women don't really have a choice of their own, and the act is wrong because you're stealing property from another guy.

 

[Maze1125]

Ya know what, I don't think I need to continue this, my point has been made for me far better than I could make it myself.

 

[Thyunda]

You're the mugger, the girlfriend's the wallet, the money's the relationship, and your victim is a stranger. And you left the wallet in the gutter for him to find on his way home. You took the money of course.

Right, so what you're saying here is that women are property that can be stolen and I'm threatening the boyfriend's life to get his girlfriend.

Glad we're on the same page...

But you've pretty much confirmed what I already knew. This whole "it's immoral for you to even try" stance is based pretty much purely on the idea that women don't really have a choice of their own, and the act is wrong because you're stealing property from another guy.

Nope, I was merely comparing the crushing defeat of having your possessions taken from you on threat of death to the feeling of crushed hopelessness as you discover that the girl who falls asleep in your arms every night has been sharing her love with another man behind your back. You will never know why she did this, and it will eat at you for years to come. Your relationship will die, you will develop trust issues, and you'll realise the hollowness of life as you discover just how little she really thought of you.

And if you aid in that situation, then you're just as bad as she is.

 

[senordesol]

Nope, I was merely comparing the crushing defeat of having your possessions taken from you on threat of death to the feeling of crushed hopelessness as you discover that the girl who falls asleep in your arms every night has been sharing her love with another man behind your back. You will never know why she did this, and it will eat at you for years to come. Your relationship will die, you will develop trust issues, and you'll realise the hollowness of life as you discover just how little she really thought of you.

And if you aid in that situation, then you're just as bad as she is.

God damn. I'd rather be robbed.

 

[DoomyMcDoom]

Well to put it bluntly, if she's more interested in you than her boyfriend, let it all come crashing down! He's probably being predictable boring and lazy, and allowing this through his own shittyness as a boyfriend... his problem bro not yours.

Then why doesn't she choose you? Why are you the one-off and he the constant?

I didn't know I was involved in the relationship? Did this just become a fourway while I wasn't looking?

Now I know what you mean though, lemme put it straight, a man can be the other guy, and let her play both sides if he doesn't have the balls to make a demand, I've been the other guy but in all cases I demand that she leave mr boring idiot and tell him why she's doing it, after all dude's gotta learn so he can stop being boring and make his next girl happy to have him for as long as she does.

I used to be a boring stick in the mud general average sweet nice and boring dude, once I realised how my not being adventurous and not being exciting, was causin me to fail hard fucking core, along with my lack of self confidence.

Lemme put it this way, if the guy she's no longer interested in, is being predictable, unfun, boring, or just doesn't stick up for himself as a person apart from her, he's gotta learn to change that.
After all, the depiction of men in happy relationships as whipped and it working just doesn't pan out in real life, your girl tries to make you change in a way that affects you as a man, you dissagree, or you look like a pussy, and women already have one of those, they don't need another one.

If you bring a girl flowers and chocolates once, that can be sweet, if you do it like clockwork it's boring, if you take your girl on a romantic picnic, that's cool, you do it every weekend you ruin the damn experience, guys gotta learn to experiment do new exciting things with their women, because otherwise you get stale, and uninteresting, I'm not talking spontainious trips to hawaii or anything too extravagant, but hell do something different now and again, more often the better.

Also unlike what a lot of people seem to think, most women do not like being held up on pedestals and do not find constant pandering and asskissing attractive in a man, they want to be treated like a woman not as some kind of untouchable goddess, after all the best times in bed, are for both parties to enjoy and take part in, the best times in any goddamn relatable moment are the mutually enjoyable ones... as a man you belittling yourself in front of your woman makes you look like a fool, and makes you look like you wouldn't even want to be with you so why should she...

I guess in a rather round about way I'm implying that even though all men have something to learn in their relations with their partners, some have more to learn than others, and it does neither party any favours pandering to the current boring boyfriend's weakness... Cuz he won't learn, and she isn't happy.

I know it may sound like I want someone to be hurt, but y'know I've learned all my most life improving lessons through pain... Pain is healthy and natural, we all need to learn to cope with it and learn and grow as people.
No I'm not some kind of bigot, I'm not cheuvanistic, I respect women, I just know a lot of guys, treat women "right" instead of right, difference being that some men turn themselves into a bloody doormat, and end up becoming something rather strikingly unattractive in the process, and other men, the ones who know what I'm saying, don't change themselves, don't lower themselves, they respect women, and do so AS A MAN, they relate rather than "understand"
they empathize rather than sympathize with their mate when she is feeling sad, so many other things I could go on and on about for hours, but I've already got a wall of text up so I'll leave it at this.
The difference, is that of men, and boys. Men have relationships with women, boys play at being men having a relationship.

 

[Thyunda]

-snip-

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you on that part. But I don't understand how any of that holds any relevance to fucking a guy's girlfriend. A guy might be new to this relationship business. He might be young, he might be naive, he might be innocent.

But don't think for a second that makes it acceptable to crush him. I would honour your relationship as I expect you to honour mine. Mutual trust. Only, with half the opinions in this thread, I'm beginning to think I'm entirely justified in being the jealous type.

Nope, I was merely comparing the crushing defeat of having your possessions taken from you on threat of death to the feeling of crushed hopelessness as you discover that the girl who falls asleep in your arms every night has been sharing her love with another man behind your back. You will never know why she did this, and it will eat at you for years to come. Your relationship will die, you will develop trust issues, and you'll realise the hollowness of life as you discover just how little she really thought of you.

And if you aid in that situation, then you're just as bad as she is.

God damn. I'd rather be robbed.

I forgave her, but I couldn't bring myself to trust her again. I don't know if I blame the guy involved - she wasn't the sort to bring up our relationship if I wasn't around - but if he knew about us and he still did it? Then that makes me better than him. My girlfriend may have gone around behind my back, but I pushed back and I'm better for it, while these rats remain perfectly happy to fight in the mud over whatever piece of meat happens to drift that way.

No respect for cheats or anybody who'll aid in that situation. They have no respect for the sanctity of a relationship, and all they care about is their own gain. This attitude is what's wrong with everything in our society. Not my problem. They deserved it. Hey, it's his responsibility to keep his girl under control.

IT'S NOT THOUGH. A relationship is built on TRUST. I don't care if her boyfriend is Adolf Fucking Hitler, because clearly there's something there. Otherwise she'd have left by now. Do you think yourself some kind of noble hero, riding in and sweeping her out of his dungeon and onto your horse? Because you're not, y'know. Maybe you will get a long term relationship out of it. Hell, maybe she won't cheat on you. It's a stretch, but it's possible.

But irrelevant of the gain for you, or the perceived moral heroics you're performing,

You're still a dirty, snivelling coward. And it's all you'll ever be.

 

[Espl]

My advice? Just don't. The consequences surrounding that behaviour only get worse as you get older, so you probably don't want to start any bad habits.

 

[Liam Starrs]

This is one thing i never understood about this situation. I walk in on my girlfriend kissing another guy who i have never met. I have to assume that she wasnt coerced and what she did was her own doing. the guy would get none of the blame he just wanted to get laid.
The situation changes when i know the guy if say he was a previous BF or even a long time friend of the girl. he knows me and knows about our relationship and its at this stage punching begins. Not because its the right thing to do or it will save the relationship(no chance) but just to make me feel a little less screwed over.

"When chatting up a single girl you have the whole world to compete with but a married girl you only gotta be better than one guy"--by im-not-sure

 

[Liam Starrs]

-snip-

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you on that part. But I don't understand how any of that holds any relevance to fucking a guy's girlfriend. A guy might be new to this relationship business. He might be young, he might be naive, he might be innocent.

But don't think for a second that makes it acceptable to crush him. I would honour your relationship as I expect you to honour mine. Mutual trust. Only, with half the opinions in this thread, I'm beginning to think I'm entirely justified in being the jealous type.

Nope, I was merely comparing the crushing defeat of having your possessions taken from you on threat of death to the feeling of crushed hopelessness as you discover that the girl who falls asleep in your arms every night has been sharing her love with another man behind your back. You will never know why she did this, and it will eat at you for years to come. Your relationship will die, you will develop trust issues, and you'll realise the hollowness of life as you discover just how little she really thought of you.

And if you aid in that situation, then you're just as bad as she is.

God damn. I'd rather be robbed.

I forgave her, but I couldn't bring myself to trust her again. I don't know if I blame the guy involved - she wasn't the sort to bring up our relationship if I wasn't around - but if he knew about us and he still did it? Then that makes me better than him. My girlfriend may have gone around behind my back, but I pushed back and I'm better for it, while these rats remain perfectly happy to fight in the mud over whatever piece of meat happens to drift that way.

No respect for cheats or anybody who'll aid in that situation. They have no respect for the sanctity of a relationship, and all they care about is their own gain. This attitude is what's wrong with everything in our society. Not my problem. They deserved it. Hey, it's his responsibility to keep his girl under control.

IT'S NOT THOUGH. A relationship is built on TRUST. I don't care if her boyfriend is Adolf Fucking Hitler, because clearly there's something there. Otherwise she'd have left by now. Do you think yourself some kind of noble hero, riding in and sweeping her out of his dungeon and onto your horse? Because you're not, y'know. Maybe you will get a long term relationship out of it. Hell, maybe she won't cheat on you. It's a stretch, but it's possible.

But irrelevant of the gain for you, or the perceived moral heroics you're performing,

You're still a dirty, snivelling coward. And it's all you'll ever be.

I would take a kind of "better man won the day" view with this. As long as kids arent being hurt and its not anything to do with money or anything like that. 2 men one woman she is allowed to choose. if anything shes the coward for not ending the unsatisfying relationship.

 

[Thyunda]

I would take a kind of "better man won the day" view with this. As long as kids arent being hurt and its not anything to do with money or anything like that. 2 men one woman she is allowed to choose. if anything shes the coward for not ending the unsatisfying relationship.

No self-respecting man would get involved until she made the choice. There's really nothing more to it. If she's so dissatisfied with her boyfriend, then she leaves him. And if you're promising her free, exciting sex while her poor sap of a boyfriend handles the domestic arguments over dishes and toothpaste and taking the bins out, well, what obligation has she to choose?

 

[crazyarms33]

The bond of trust is very important to me in a relationship. If I found out the girl I was involved with was sleeping around it would be over very, very fast. And I would likely have a few words with the other man if I knew him.

If by words you mean my fist meeting his face, then yes. I'm not a big believer in talking it out though.

OT: If you like the girl, move in. Its up to her to decide what she wants. Unless her bf is overseas serving in the armed forces. If thats the case...wait. Cuz that would be a dick move. And I don't have a sister by gf's sister is in love with this dude that is a total shit. We have tried to tell her to back off but it just drives her closer to him. Eventually we just said "Screw it, its your life." and backed off. She is staring to realize it now...I guess it just depends on the person?

 

[Angie7F]

The situation described here is a o go for me because the other person simply wants to get it on, and has no intentions of breaking up.

Meeting someone and falling for each toner despite being n a relationship is something that happens.
But if that is the case, you need to break off the old relationship.
If there is a slight overlap due to what ever reasons, I can let that slip, but having zero intentions of ending it is just selling yourself cheap to an idiot.

Another variable is that this is not an example of a married couple.
I would never attempt to get in the way of a married couple because the other woman will always be the other woman.

 

[DoomyMcDoom]

-snip-

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you on that part. But I don't understand how any of that holds any relevance to fucking a guy's girlfriend. A guy might be new to this relationship business. He might be young, he might be naive, he might be innocent.

But don't think for a second that makes it acceptable to crush him. I would honour your relationship as I expect you to honour mine. Mutual trust. Only, with half the opinions in this thread, I'm beginning to think I'm entirely justified in being the jealous type.

Nope, I was merely comparing the crushing defeat of having your possessions taken from you on threat of death to the feeling of crushed hopelessness as you discover that the girl who falls asleep in your arms every night has been sharing her love with another man behind your back. You will never know why she did this, and it will eat at you for years to come. Your relationship will die, you will develop trust issues, and you'll realise the hollowness of life as you discover just how little she really thought of you.

And if you aid in that situation, then you're just as bad as she is.

God damn. I'd rather be robbed.

I forgave her, but I couldn't bring myself to trust her again. I don't know if I blame the guy involved - she wasn't the sort to bring up our relationship if I wasn't around - but if he knew about us and he still did it? Then that makes me better than him. My girlfriend may have gone around behind my back, but I pushed back and I'm better for it, while these rats remain perfectly happy to fight in the mud over whatever piece of meat happens to drift that way.

No respect for cheats or anybody who'll aid in that situation. They have no respect for the sanctity of a relationship, and all they care about is their own gain. This attitude is what's wrong with everything in our society. Not my problem. They deserved it. Hey, it's his responsibility to keep his girl under control.

IT'S NOT THOUGH. A relationship is built on TRUST. I don't care if her boyfriend is Adolf Fucking Hitler, because clearly there's something there. Otherwise she'd have left by now. Do you think yourself some kind of noble hero, riding in and sweeping her out of his dungeon and onto your horse? Because you're not, y'know. Maybe you will get a long term relationship out of it. Hell, maybe she won't cheat on you. It's a stretch, but it's possible.

But irrelevant of the gain for you, or the perceived moral heroics you're performing,

You're still a dirty, snivelling coward. And it's all you'll ever be.

You're only half right, relationships are built on trust, and mutual attraction.
Let's face it, if she isn't attracted to her old guy and she is attracted to you, she isn't gonna be faithful.
You think what you want, but to live in fear of rejection, to get crushed when a girl doesn't like you anymore, makes a man weak, I've always seen life as war, every damn day it's a fight, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
But as long as you're still standing, you can always learn adapt and grow, sometimes the most potent way to learn and grow is pain, I've suffered at the hands of better equipped men, 'til I learned how to compete, now they lose, and nobody should "keep their girl under control" women aren't pets, they make their own choices just like we do, if you are man enough to keep your woman happy enough, to want to choose you over every other man forever, good on you, if not, it's better to learn from her choice, and move on.
That's not what is wrong with our society, there are a lot of other far far more twisted and worse things wrong with society and if I get into them I will be typing till I die of starvation at my keyboard.
You just have a different view of things than me, but if my girl cheated on me she'd be out the door down the street and around the corner before you could say "Get the fuck out *****", but then again I let women know how I take to infidelity, if you want another man that much, you aren't mine anymore, I can get a hundred other lovers, why should I have to settle for one who doesn't really want to be with me, but will stay with me out of her own fear and insecurity. Also if she "isn't one to mention" your relationship, then it's 100% her wanting to fool around on you, in that situation I'd dump her ass.
Then again most girls I've been with have been hella jealous of me, have taken it in their hands to show me off to all their friends and proudly proclaim our relationship, and generally treat me like some sorta prize, and like buy me things and make me things, and generally try their damndest to keep me as long as they can... I don't think cheating is right, I would never cheat on a woman, and I'd never help a woman cheat on any guy I know(part of my code is a bros first policy, that way I never fight over a woman with my best buddy and regret it later), if I don't know the guy, then I don't care, after all when a girl is with a guy and looking for another guy the reason she cheats is more that she's too scared to hurt her current partner by telling him it's over first, that and or that she's scared of it not working and ending up alone, not because she still loves her current guy.
Which is why I've been the cause of a few breakups, but I make it clear that if a girl wants me more, dump the other dude's ass, I don't drop some weak ass line about how I'll be better and more stable and never leave her, or anything, I just make it clear that I can just as easily move on, but that if she wants me I don't tolerate another man in the picture, which has out of the 4 times I've been in that situations 3 of them have ended up dumping their current guy the fourth ended up being just friends with me, and then dumping her current guy anyway... I'm not gonna "fight over whatever scraps I can get" I fight to win, period, and why should I let any other guy intimidate me?