About Relationship Sanctity....

[Thyunda]

You're the mugger, the girlfriend's the wallet, the money's the relationship, and your victim is a stranger. And you left the wallet in the gutter for him to find on his way home. You took the money of course.

Right, so what you're saying here is that women are property that can be stolen and I'm threatening the boyfriend's life to get his girlfriend.

Glad we're on the same page...

But you've pretty much confirmed what I already knew. This whole "it's immoral for you to even try" stance is based pretty much purely on the idea that women don't really have a choice of their own, and the act is wrong because you're stealing property from another guy.

Nope, I was merely comparing the crushing defeat of having your possessions taken from you on threat of death to the feeling of crushed hopelessness as you discover that the girl who falls asleep in your arms every night has been sharing her love with another man behind your back. You will never know why she did this, and it will eat at you for years to come. Your relationship will die, you will develop trust issues, and you'll realise the hollowness of life as you discover just how little she really thought of you.

And if you aid in that situation, then you're just as bad as she is.

 

[senordesol]

Nope, I was merely comparing the crushing defeat of having your possessions taken from you on threat of death to the feeling of crushed hopelessness as you discover that the girl who falls asleep in your arms every night has been sharing her love with another man behind your back. You will never know why she did this, and it will eat at you for years to come. Your relationship will die, you will develop trust issues, and you'll realise the hollowness of life as you discover just how little she really thought of you.

And if you aid in that situation, then you're just as bad as she is.

God damn. I'd rather be robbed.

 

[DoomyMcDoom]

Well to put it bluntly, if she's more interested in you than her boyfriend, let it all come crashing down! He's probably being predictable boring and lazy, and allowing this through his own shittyness as a boyfriend... his problem bro not yours.

Then why doesn't she choose you? Why are you the one-off and he the constant?

I didn't know I was involved in the relationship? Did this just become a fourway while I wasn't looking?

Now I know what you mean though, lemme put it straight, a man can be the other guy, and let her play both sides if he doesn't have the balls to make a demand, I've been the other guy but in all cases I demand that she leave mr boring idiot and tell him why she's doing it, after all dude's gotta learn so he can stop being boring and make his next girl happy to have him for as long as she does.

I used to be a boring stick in the mud general average sweet nice and boring dude, once I realised how my not being adventurous and not being exciting, was causin me to fail hard fucking core, along with my lack of self confidence.

Lemme put it this way, if the guy she's no longer interested in, is being predictable, unfun, boring, or just doesn't stick up for himself as a person apart from her, he's gotta learn to change that.
After all, the depiction of men in happy relationships as whipped and it working just doesn't pan out in real life, your girl tries to make you change in a way that affects you as a man, you dissagree, or you look like a pussy, and women already have one of those, they don't need another one.

If you bring a girl flowers and chocolates once, that can be sweet, if you do it like clockwork it's boring, if you take your girl on a romantic picnic, that's cool, you do it every weekend you ruin the damn experience, guys gotta learn to experiment do new exciting things with their women, because otherwise you get stale, and uninteresting, I'm not talking spontainious trips to hawaii or anything too extravagant, but hell do something different now and again, more often the better.

Also unlike what a lot of people seem to think, most women do not like being held up on pedestals and do not find constant pandering and asskissing attractive in a man, they want to be treated like a woman not as some kind of untouchable goddess, after all the best times in bed, are for both parties to enjoy and take part in, the best times in any goddamn relatable moment are the mutually enjoyable ones... as a man you belittling yourself in front of your woman makes you look like a fool, and makes you look like you wouldn't even want to be with you so why should she...

I guess in a rather round about way I'm implying that even though all men have something to learn in their relations with their partners, some have more to learn than others, and it does neither party any favours pandering to the current boring boyfriend's weakness... Cuz he won't learn, and she isn't happy.

I know it may sound like I want someone to be hurt, but y'know I've learned all my most life improving lessons through pain... Pain is healthy and natural, we all need to learn to cope with it and learn and grow as people.
No I'm not some kind of bigot, I'm not cheuvanistic, I respect women, I just know a lot of guys, treat women "right" instead of right, difference being that some men turn themselves into a bloody doormat, and end up becoming something rather strikingly unattractive in the process, and other men, the ones who know what I'm saying, don't change themselves, don't lower themselves, they respect women, and do so AS A MAN, they relate rather than "understand"
they empathize rather than sympathize with their mate when she is feeling sad, so many other things I could go on and on about for hours, but I've already got a wall of text up so I'll leave it at this.
The difference, is that of men, and boys. Men have relationships with women, boys play at being men having a relationship.

 

[Thyunda]

-snip-

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you on that part. But I don't understand how any of that holds any relevance to fucking a guy's girlfriend. A guy might be new to this relationship business. He might be young, he might be naive, he might be innocent.

But don't think for a second that makes it acceptable to crush him. I would honour your relationship as I expect you to honour mine. Mutual trust. Only, with half the opinions in this thread, I'm beginning to think I'm entirely justified in being the jealous type.

Nope, I was merely comparing the crushing defeat of having your possessions taken from you on threat of death to the feeling of crushed hopelessness as you discover that the girl who falls asleep in your arms every night has been sharing her love with another man behind your back. You will never know why she did this, and it will eat at you for years to come. Your relationship will die, you will develop trust issues, and you'll realise the hollowness of life as you discover just how little she really thought of you.

And if you aid in that situation, then you're just as bad as she is.

God damn. I'd rather be robbed.

I forgave her, but I couldn't bring myself to trust her again. I don't know if I blame the guy involved - she wasn't the sort to bring up our relationship if I wasn't around - but if he knew about us and he still did it? Then that makes me better than him. My girlfriend may have gone around behind my back, but I pushed back and I'm better for it, while these rats remain perfectly happy to fight in the mud over whatever piece of meat happens to drift that way.

No respect for cheats or anybody who'll aid in that situation. They have no respect for the sanctity of a relationship, and all they care about is their own gain. This attitude is what's wrong with everything in our society. Not my problem. They deserved it. Hey, it's his responsibility to keep his girl under control.

IT'S NOT THOUGH. A relationship is built on TRUST. I don't care if her boyfriend is Adolf Fucking Hitler, because clearly there's something there. Otherwise she'd have left by now. Do you think yourself some kind of noble hero, riding in and sweeping her out of his dungeon and onto your horse? Because you're not, y'know. Maybe you will get a long term relationship out of it. Hell, maybe she won't cheat on you. It's a stretch, but it's possible.

But irrelevant of the gain for you, or the perceived moral heroics you're performing,

You're still a dirty, snivelling coward. And it's all you'll ever be.

 

[Espl]

My advice? Just don't. The consequences surrounding that behaviour only get worse as you get older, so you probably don't want to start any bad habits.

 

[Liam Starrs]

This is one thing i never understood about this situation. I walk in on my girlfriend kissing another guy who i have never met. I have to assume that she wasnt coerced and what she did was her own doing. the guy would get none of the blame he just wanted to get laid.
The situation changes when i know the guy if say he was a previous BF or even a long time friend of the girl. he knows me and knows about our relationship and its at this stage punching begins. Not because its the right thing to do or it will save the relationship(no chance) but just to make me feel a little less screwed over.

"When chatting up a single girl you have the whole world to compete with but a married girl you only gotta be better than one guy"--by im-not-sure

 

[Liam Starrs]

-snip-

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you on that part. But I don't understand how any of that holds any relevance to fucking a guy's girlfriend. A guy might be new to this relationship business. He might be young, he might be naive, he might be innocent.

But don't think for a second that makes it acceptable to crush him. I would honour your relationship as I expect you to honour mine. Mutual trust. Only, with half the opinions in this thread, I'm beginning to think I'm entirely justified in being the jealous type.

Nope, I was merely comparing the crushing defeat of having your possessions taken from you on threat of death to the feeling of crushed hopelessness as you discover that the girl who falls asleep in your arms every night has been sharing her love with another man behind your back. You will never know why she did this, and it will eat at you for years to come. Your relationship will die, you will develop trust issues, and you'll realise the hollowness of life as you discover just how little she really thought of you.

And if you aid in that situation, then you're just as bad as she is.

God damn. I'd rather be robbed.

I forgave her, but I couldn't bring myself to trust her again. I don't know if I blame the guy involved - she wasn't the sort to bring up our relationship if I wasn't around - but if he knew about us and he still did it? Then that makes me better than him. My girlfriend may have gone around behind my back, but I pushed back and I'm better for it, while these rats remain perfectly happy to fight in the mud over whatever piece of meat happens to drift that way.

No respect for cheats or anybody who'll aid in that situation. They have no respect for the sanctity of a relationship, and all they care about is their own gain. This attitude is what's wrong with everything in our society. Not my problem. They deserved it. Hey, it's his responsibility to keep his girl under control.

IT'S NOT THOUGH. A relationship is built on TRUST. I don't care if her boyfriend is Adolf Fucking Hitler, because clearly there's something there. Otherwise she'd have left by now. Do you think yourself some kind of noble hero, riding in and sweeping her out of his dungeon and onto your horse? Because you're not, y'know. Maybe you will get a long term relationship out of it. Hell, maybe she won't cheat on you. It's a stretch, but it's possible.

But irrelevant of the gain for you, or the perceived moral heroics you're performing,

You're still a dirty, snivelling coward. And it's all you'll ever be.

I would take a kind of "better man won the day" view with this. As long as kids arent being hurt and its not anything to do with money or anything like that. 2 men one woman she is allowed to choose. if anything shes the coward for not ending the unsatisfying relationship.

 

[Thyunda]

I would take a kind of "better man won the day" view with this. As long as kids arent being hurt and its not anything to do with money or anything like that. 2 men one woman she is allowed to choose. if anything shes the coward for not ending the unsatisfying relationship.

No self-respecting man would get involved until she made the choice. There's really nothing more to it. If she's so dissatisfied with her boyfriend, then she leaves him. And if you're promising her free, exciting sex while her poor sap of a boyfriend handles the domestic arguments over dishes and toothpaste and taking the bins out, well, what obligation has she to choose?

 

[crazyarms33]

The bond of trust is very important to me in a relationship. If I found out the girl I was involved with was sleeping around it would be over very, very fast. And I would likely have a few words with the other man if I knew him.

If by words you mean my fist meeting his face, then yes. I'm not a big believer in talking it out though.

OT: If you like the girl, move in. Its up to her to decide what she wants. Unless her bf is overseas serving in the armed forces. If thats the case...wait. Cuz that would be a dick move. And I don't have a sister by gf's sister is in love with this dude that is a total shit. We have tried to tell her to back off but it just drives her closer to him. Eventually we just said "Screw it, its your life." and backed off. She is staring to realize it now...I guess it just depends on the person?

 

[Angie7F]

The situation described here is a o go for me because the other person simply wants to get it on, and has no intentions of breaking up.

Meeting someone and falling for each toner despite being n a relationship is something that happens.
But if that is the case, you need to break off the old relationship.
If there is a slight overlap due to what ever reasons, I can let that slip, but having zero intentions of ending it is just selling yourself cheap to an idiot.

Another variable is that this is not an example of a married couple.
I would never attempt to get in the way of a married couple because the other woman will always be the other woman.

 

[DoomyMcDoom]

-snip-

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you on that part. But I don't understand how any of that holds any relevance to fucking a guy's girlfriend. A guy might be new to this relationship business. He might be young, he might be naive, he might be innocent.

But don't think for a second that makes it acceptable to crush him. I would honour your relationship as I expect you to honour mine. Mutual trust. Only, with half the opinions in this thread, I'm beginning to think I'm entirely justified in being the jealous type.

Nope, I was merely comparing the crushing defeat of having your possessions taken from you on threat of death to the feeling of crushed hopelessness as you discover that the girl who falls asleep in your arms every night has been sharing her love with another man behind your back. You will never know why she did this, and it will eat at you for years to come. Your relationship will die, you will develop trust issues, and you'll realise the hollowness of life as you discover just how little she really thought of you.

And if you aid in that situation, then you're just as bad as she is.

God damn. I'd rather be robbed.

I forgave her, but I couldn't bring myself to trust her again. I don't know if I blame the guy involved - she wasn't the sort to bring up our relationship if I wasn't around - but if he knew about us and he still did it? Then that makes me better than him. My girlfriend may have gone around behind my back, but I pushed back and I'm better for it, while these rats remain perfectly happy to fight in the mud over whatever piece of meat happens to drift that way.

No respect for cheats or anybody who'll aid in that situation. They have no respect for the sanctity of a relationship, and all they care about is their own gain. This attitude is what's wrong with everything in our society. Not my problem. They deserved it. Hey, it's his responsibility to keep his girl under control.

IT'S NOT THOUGH. A relationship is built on TRUST. I don't care if her boyfriend is Adolf Fucking Hitler, because clearly there's something there. Otherwise she'd have left by now. Do you think yourself some kind of noble hero, riding in and sweeping her out of his dungeon and onto your horse? Because you're not, y'know. Maybe you will get a long term relationship out of it. Hell, maybe she won't cheat on you. It's a stretch, but it's possible.

But irrelevant of the gain for you, or the perceived moral heroics you're performing,

You're still a dirty, snivelling coward. And it's all you'll ever be.

You're only half right, relationships are built on trust, and mutual attraction.
Let's face it, if she isn't attracted to her old guy and she is attracted to you, she isn't gonna be faithful.
You think what you want, but to live in fear of rejection, to get crushed when a girl doesn't like you anymore, makes a man weak, I've always seen life as war, every damn day it's a fight, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
But as long as you're still standing, you can always learn adapt and grow, sometimes the most potent way to learn and grow is pain, I've suffered at the hands of better equipped men, 'til I learned how to compete, now they lose, and nobody should "keep their girl under control" women aren't pets, they make their own choices just like we do, if you are man enough to keep your woman happy enough, to want to choose you over every other man forever, good on you, if not, it's better to learn from her choice, and move on.
That's not what is wrong with our society, there are a lot of other far far more twisted and worse things wrong with society and if I get into them I will be typing till I die of starvation at my keyboard.
You just have a different view of things than me, but if my girl cheated on me she'd be out the door down the street and around the corner before you could say "Get the fuck out *****", but then again I let women know how I take to infidelity, if you want another man that much, you aren't mine anymore, I can get a hundred other lovers, why should I have to settle for one who doesn't really want to be with me, but will stay with me out of her own fear and insecurity. Also if she "isn't one to mention" your relationship, then it's 100% her wanting to fool around on you, in that situation I'd dump her ass.
Then again most girls I've been with have been hella jealous of me, have taken it in their hands to show me off to all their friends and proudly proclaim our relationship, and generally treat me like some sorta prize, and like buy me things and make me things, and generally try their damndest to keep me as long as they can... I don't think cheating is right, I would never cheat on a woman, and I'd never help a woman cheat on any guy I know(part of my code is a bros first policy, that way I never fight over a woman with my best buddy and regret it later), if I don't know the guy, then I don't care, after all when a girl is with a guy and looking for another guy the reason she cheats is more that she's too scared to hurt her current partner by telling him it's over first, that and or that she's scared of it not working and ending up alone, not because she still loves her current guy.
Which is why I've been the cause of a few breakups, but I make it clear that if a girl wants me more, dump the other dude's ass, I don't drop some weak ass line about how I'll be better and more stable and never leave her, or anything, I just make it clear that I can just as easily move on, but that if she wants me I don't tolerate another man in the picture, which has out of the 4 times I've been in that situations 3 of them have ended up dumping their current guy the fourth ended up being just friends with me, and then dumping her current guy anyway... I'm not gonna "fight over whatever scraps I can get" I fight to win, period, and why should I let any other guy intimidate me?

 

[Thyunda]

but I make it clear that if a girl wants me more, dump the other dude's ass,

Then what are we even arguing over? That shit's fair game.

Oh. And in my anecdote - she's my ex now. Her little affair killed the relationship. Though I forgave her in words, never did in my head, and hell, even my current girlfriend managed to have an online...incident. I wouldn't care so much normally. It's in IMVU, y'know, a 3D avatar chat. It was roleplaying, in a way, but she's the one who insists we remain a couple in that particular area, and yet she's the one who had cyber-sex AND sent a lovely message the morning after detailing how much better he was in cyberspace than I was in real life. That wasn't spur of the moment, that was...anyway, I'm getting angry again. I confronted the guy in question. The first thing he did was blame her. The second thing he did was tell me his friend was flirting more. The third thing he did was attempt to convince me she wasn't worth it.

I fell apart laughing at him. It was so pathetic. No, the thing that stings the most is that she insists she doesn't know why she did it. If I don't know the cause, how can I prevent it happening again? I even asked her if she would rather be separate in IMVU. It's a damn chat network filled with teenagers and children - It's not a big deal. I couldn't care less if she cybered a thousand men.
No. My problem is pride. I don't care if she cybers a thousand men. But I care if a thousand men can say they've cybered my girlfriend and gotten away with it.


((If this was real life, I'd have left her with the flat and a severely injured lover and gone straight back to my hometown.))

 

[Teejonis Rahl]

All you got to do is be her best friend and even get to know the guy. When you have feelings for somebody, make sure that it's more than just physical and that it is on an emotional level too. You could also be just blunt with her (gasp!) Find out if the guy is treating her right too, cuz if he's not, that's when you let her know that he's not right for her if he just hurts her. Rebound? aw yeah, that's the only way I can get a girl.

 

[DoomyMcDoom]

but I make it clear that if a girl wants me more, dump the other dude's ass,

Then what are we even arguing over? That shit's fair game.

I dunno man, sometimes I figure(for whatever reason) that I need to clarify myself in greater detail, didn't know we were on the same page here, but I guess we are.

Oh. And in my anecdote - she's my ex now. Her little affair killed the relationship. Though I forgave her in words, never did in my head, and hell, even my current girlfriend managed to have an online...incident. I wouldn't care so much normally. It's in IMVU, y'know, a 3D avatar chat. It was roleplaying, in a way, but she's the one who insists we remain a couple in that particular area, and yet she's the one who had cyber-sex AND sent a lovely message the morning after detailing how much better he was in cyberspace than I was in real life. That wasn't spur of the moment, that was...anyway, I'm getting angry again. I confronted the guy in question. The first thing he did was blame her. The second thing he did was tell me his friend was flirting more. The third thing he did was attempt to convince me she wasn't worth it.

Good stuff man, you did the right thing, sometimes you gotta cut em loose for your own health, those were both those times.
Kinda funny how much of a wuss the other guy ended up being, but I guess that's pretty common.

I fell apart laughing at him. It was so pathetic. No, the thing that stings the most is that she insists she doesn't know why she did it. If I don't know the cause, how can I prevent it happening again? I even asked her if she would rather be separate in IMVU. It's a damn chat network filled with teenagers and children - It's not a big deal. I couldn't care less if she cybered a thousand men.
No. My problem is pride. I don't care if she cybers a thousand men. But I care if a thousand men can say they've cybered my girlfriend and gotten away with it.


((If this was real life, I'd have left her with the flat and a severely injured lover and gone straight back to my hometown.))

Lemme get this clear for you, women for whatever reason have a hard time resisting emotional urges, it has to do with brain chemistry, men and women think differently on a very base level, she may have identified the urge itself, but not the reason since the reason was not a logic reason but an emotional reason and I don't know anyone who can ever truly identify emotional reasons, I mean you can kinda define em, and we get that too, but it's just not the same way, hard to explain without writing an entire thesis paper length article about it, but lemme make this clear, you will never find out the reason by asking her, you can only find that out by looking at how you acted, what you did, and all the little things about how you express yourself through body language and all that crap, you MAY find the reason there, and even then that's a major effort, just take it for what it was, she was a deceitful and disloyal person, and work on improving yourself for your own reasons, the past can sort itself out, look to the future, and kick some ass man, that's all you can really do... Unless you unlock the secrets of time travel, in which case hook me up bro.

 

[Johann610]

Two thoughts spring to mind:
1, it is ALWAYS better to be "the other guy", because she is confessing everything to you, that she thinks about the first guy. She is giving you more, than she gives him. If you can tolerate the sneaking, enjoy it.
2, A person is only going to be as loyal to YOU as they are to the first guy. Once she leaves him, expect "another" to take his place, and you are now the "first guy".
If you want the roller coaster, be my guest.

If the "other guy" isn't you, then repeat what you know, and then pipe down--no repeating. Those facts, there? Took me YEARS to learn, and no, I didn't believe at first. No one bleating them in my face would have made it easier to learn, either.
If the "first guy" is you, decide if you want to be "other guy"'s friend, or not, but know this--it's not his fault. The girl decided to run around on you. Sorry.

 

[Athinira]

It's people's job to be ethical.

Is it? Since when?

Since the OP asked 'is it wrong to..?' He's asking whether it's an ethical predicament, not whether it is 'advantageous', not whether it's legal, not whether you'd do it yourself, but if it's ethical.

That still doesn't implicate in any way that it's our (or his) JOB to be ethical. Therefore, Mortai is wrong. He is asking us whether or not we THINK it's ethical, but that doesn't change the fact that acting "the ethical way" is not a requirement, and therefore not anyones job. No matter what the common/democratic census is on the subject, it's still no obligation.

If the census is that it's unethical, the OP is still free to go right ahead and ignore the census, following his own determination. He may still choose to have our opinion weigh in (and considering he is asking us for advice, that's likely to be the case to some extent), but he isn't obliged by adhere to it.

If you are acknowledging that finding yourself in such circumstances is unethical, how can it therefore not be 'wrong'?

Because whether or not something is ethical or unethical is, and always will be, a subjective matter.

He isn't the first person in the world to either ask "Do you consider X unethical" or directly state "I find X unethical", and then have people respond "It's not unethical, go right ahead". Or vice versa for that matter.

So when you ask 'Since when [is it someone's job to be ethical]?', the answer should be obvious. It is your job to be ethical if your goal is to be ethical. If you don't want to be ethical: fine. But it doesn't mean you're in the right.

...except that the OP never stated that it was his goal to be ethical.

His original post states...

...I was hoping to hear from the Escapist on the matter.

...which only implies that he has ethical considerations, but considerations alone doesn't make a goal.

It's not that i don't get your point, but it doesn't hold op if you put in context of the OP's post )

 

[Angie7F]

Its no one job to be ethical when it comes to situations like this.
If you want to be ethical and take the moral high road, I applaud you for that, but you cant expect everyone to do the same.

Like other people mentioned, its more about pride.
Why would you want to be the person "she wants to get it on" with with no intentions of breaking up with the other guy?
If they really really wanted to be with you, they would ditch the other guy and concentrate on you.
The fact that they dont do that and tells it to your face means that they are not that into you.

 

[SilverApple]

Lemme get this clear for you, women for whatever reason have a hard time resisting emotional urges, it has to do with brain chemistry, men and women think differently on a very base level, she may have identified the urge itself, but not the reason since the reason was not a logic reason but an emotional reason and I don't know anyone who can ever truly identify emotional reasons, I mean you can kinda define em, and we get that too, but it's just not the same way, hard to explain without writing an entire thesis paper length article

So, any more deterministic sexism where that came from?