Accpet Steam's New EULA or Say Goodbye To Your Steam Account UPDATED

[Vrach]

Well... I don't agree with completely shutting down your account, but it's your choice whether to use Steam or not. Using Steam requires agreeing to their TOS. If you don't like it, don't use it. That simple.

Not that simple. People bought games before this agreement was in effect. Games bought on Steam (or even retail ones that just require it to run) are unplayable if you don't want to agree to these terms and a lot of people have a lot of Steam games. Considering the terms were introduced after the purchase has taken place, I can't see how the fuck this can be legal or upheld in any court (not that I see the logic in it working even for newcomers to Steam).

It's as if the car company sold you a car, then said "hey, if you wanna continue using this car, sign this waiver to give up all your rights to sue us". Although again, the mere act of having someone sign a waiver to give up all their rights to legal action in order to use the product is just ridiculous.

 

[nu1mlock]

Who cares? They can't keep me from doing anything that I have a legal right to. Americans might want to take a look at how they treat simple contracts as laws.

Fortunately, Europeans doesn't have to care about this at all, we can't sign away our rights or overwrite laws.

Captcha: fair play

 

[somonels]

YeS! I can finally get a refund on that one game I bought on steam! Keeping my eyes open for a class-action lawsuit.

 

[Namehere]

Steam's new TOS is FUBAR. On the other hand its also designed to inhibit more then anything, like the difference between SWAT and a uniformed cop on a corner. SWAT 'handles' things, the uniform cop is meant to be a visible deterrent. If someone on Steam started a class action suit and enough people signed on, provided they won, an element of it would doubtless be that they either get their account back or receive a full refund. A full refund shouldn't be too hard to come by for either Valve or its consumer because its all basically data and its pretty indisputable given that your account is also basically a giant digital receipt.

The gaming industry has operated in a legal gray zone for decades now because most of its customer base has been children. With an aging demographic still playing video/computer games - something few companies anticipated frankly - they'll soon be brought to heel as their older customers sit up, take notice, and are willing to spend to get fair consumer treatment. The worst Nintendo and Sega might have faced in the 1980s was angry letters from parents. In the 2080's it'll be angry letters from independently wealthy man/woman-child's lawyers. I look forward to that. Steam obviously doesn't.

As I understand it most of these TOS agreements aren't court tested - so to speak - and won't hold water in court either. The mere fact that they use the same same TOS in Europe as they do in North America says it all. These aren't meant to be effective legal tools, just effective deterrent. Deter away for all I care. If I get pissy enough I'll do what I have to do, just like everyone else will. What I like about Steam is that so far they haven't engendered all that much pissiness in me. I hope they carry on the tradition of not being annoying.

 

[ViciousTide]

Oh, i can comment on this thread but no others. I wonder if i can sue for freedom of speech, restricting and banning your members away like this... Anyway,
"No access to your steam games" eh? Where there is a will there is a way around..

 

[Altorin]

I don't get the "permanently deactivating your account" thing. Maybe lockout all games on your account until you accept, so offline mode won't work, but the permanent thing bothers me. I guess it's the same in the wash, but it feels wrong to me. If you just decide to not weigh in on the issues, and accept that until you weigh in positively, your games are being held hostage, that's... not right, but it doesn't feel wrong. What I'm saying is, even if you disagree, you should always have the option to come back, agree, and continue playing your games.

In other words, unless you do something like steal credit cards, or somehow hack the system to get free games, there's NO reason your Steam Account should be "permanently deactivated" with no hope of a refund or a return to the status quo where you can actually play your games.

For a company that's seems so "pro-consumer", this seems a little strange.

 

[cpsusie]

First of all, I am speaking as a former American lawyer, from Maryland, U.S.A. who litigated non-class action lawsuits for about five years before moving on to less stressful things and work weeks that are less than 60-80 hours. Secondly, I have always liked Steam.

I think the whole bother with the class action lawsuit waiver is a tad silly. Class actions do not directly help any singular individual except for the lawyers who bring them, in most instances. They are only permitted because they deter corporations from inflicting wrongs that benefit the corporation greatly in aggregate but spread the harm so diffusely over the populace that it is in no one's economic interest to sue them (remember in U.S., you still pay your own legal fees even if you win unless you have a lawyer who takes a contingency fee. Lawyers only take contingency fees if the expected-work-to-expected-benefit ratio is sufficiently high). So although it deters this sort of injustice, it doesn't really benefit me. Personally. So I don't care. Frankly Steam's offer to pay your legal fees in arbitration EVEN if you lose is something magnificent. So, all in all, I'd say this is a win for the individual consumer.

But there is something scary about this update: basically it is a contract that says that I must agree to ANY CHANGE VALVE might make in the FUTURE to the contract or forfeit forever all the economic value I derived from entering into the contract in the first place. I have little sympathy for the whole anti-EULA point of view. But Steam should not be arbitrarily able to make a drastic change to the contract unilaterally. This is where I see the real problem. If this is upheld, it implies that not only can an EULA be used to waive your right to participate in a class action, but also can be changed by the party with all the bargaining power at any time and you have no REAL recourse except to agree. THAT is scary.

I don't know how an American Court (I suspect it would vary between the States) would come down on this issue. The only Pro-Steam argument I can think up is "the consumer agreed in the original EULA to agree to any changes of any kind we make at any time in the future." Agreement to agree later to anything, huh?

Not so sure.

 

[SilverUchiha]

http://wegotthiscovered.com/news/valve-accept-steam-subscriber-agreement-disable-account/

So if you disagree.

That's how EVERY online service works.

I already know that I'm just posting news for people to disccuss about.

Help me understand...what is the discussion value of a company using the identical process of every other company?

Maybe you could add some discussion yourself to explain what it is you expect people to discuss. This seems a lot like "the sky is blue...discuss".

Does every other company take away what you have already paid for?

Sony took away the ability to use Linux in their consoles. I know most companies have updates that remove homebrew channels, which can be used to mod games (which is legit in local-multiplayer and single player for a harder or more unique experience) which are free and it's your console, so you should do whatever you want with it. It's not a common thing for a company to take away features or aspects which you may feel you are entitled to because that's what you bought said product for, but it happens now and then. Usually for stupid reasons.

OT: Far as I'm concerned, this isn't that big a deal. I don't see myself getting into lawsuit or legal issue with Valve anytime soon. When I buy games, they are cheap. If I don't like them, I'm either not out much or not too concerned with the issue. If you don't want to accept a change to the TOS that likely won't affect you in anyway and lose access to all your games, have at it, but that seems like raising a fuss about it is just a waste of time.

 

[Evil Smurf]

if you don't agree with the terms and conditions of steam don't use the service. Easy.

 

[targren]

i think its shit that theyre doing this. i think its shit that they can do this. but theres been a lot of things on forums talking shit about steam recently and fewer than one would expect talking shit about origin for doing the exact same shit (and then some). i dont love steam, but am i the only one who suspects a 'geurilla marketing'(right term?) smear campaign here? its right in line with the sort of shit EA does every tuesday.

Honestly, I suspect it's less guerilla marketing and more that so many people ALREADY hate EA, and even those that don't usually (except in the really bad cases of fanboyistic cognitive dissonance) don't deny that they play dirty, whereas Valve and Steam have been a darling of the Escapist forums for a long time now.

Did you intend to sue them as part of a class-action? Because if not, you've got no reason to.

By that same logic, there's no reason for Valve to add this sort of clause to the TOS unless they intend to do something that would open them up to a class action lawsuit. You can't call "just in case" for one party and not the other.

 

[Evil Smurf]

if you don't agree with the terms and conditions of steam don't use the service. Easy.

Well, no shit. Did you even bother to read the OP, or did you just not comprehend it? The problem is that if you disagree with steam's abrupt ToS changes, then they take your games hostage.

I fail to see the issue here. I see that people will get upset if their games are taken from them, but you are only buying a subscription to the games and ultimately you don't own them. To keep on having the privilege of playing said games, you buckle down and say yes I accept the terms and conditions.

Is that hard? No

 

[wintercoat]

I just realised this, if the EU ruled, that people own their games doesn't that mean Steam is not allowed to hold your games hostage?

Well, considering the EU already ruled that agreements like ToS and EULA aren't legally binding, I don't see why anyone from the EU really cares. If Valve really does pull a dick move on you, you're covered by several consumer protection laws. It's just everyone else that's fucked.

 

[JWAN]

Next time you try to sign up for something online try hitting the button that you don't agree with the TOS.

This is like every online service since the invention of accounts with passwords.

 

[TwentyPercentCooler]

It's totally not like I could just make sure I had all my purchased games downloaded and THEN delete my Steam account if I had a problem with their new TOS. Oh, wait. I could.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. The courts, at least here in the U.S., don't think too much about TOS, and they've been batted down as not legally binding on several occasions. Since most of the laws are all about interpretation, and interpretation is mostly about precedent, it'll probably stay that way.

 

[lemby117]

I see a fair few people are accepting of this, compared to when EA did the same thing. So it's OK if Valve does it, but not EA?

Welcome to the Escapist...
*Sigh*
OT: To be honest this does not surprise me and I would not mind If games would not force me to use Steam to play them even when bought a retail

 

[viranimus]

I lament I finally give up. After going around myself and trying to work out a feasible arrangement to make this acceptable, I give up. I have filed an FTC complaint

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en#last

Against Sony, Electronic Arts, Microsoft and Valve. This cannot be allowed to stand and MUST be brought before higher authority so that it may be evaluated and deemed unenforcable much like all of these ToS modifications cover their asses against.

I wholeheartedly recommend every one to do the same. Even if you accepted the terms and conditions and simply disagree with it. Actually do something to voice that disagreement. File a complaint. This will never be undone if we do nothing to call bullshit on this. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. So show them that this wheel is most certainly squeaking for hundreds of thousands of customers.

Too often we say we are against something and do nothing. This is not much to ask. It would take 15 minutes of your time but together it can actually accomplish something. Do it, ask your friends to do the same. Even if you dont see how it effects you, know it does effect others and do it to protect the rights of people and trust them to know when their rights are threatened.

Seriously. DO IT. THen proliferate this request anywhere you can.

Im yielding my steam account because I will not be bullied into complying with something I cannot be made to agree to. 15 minutes of your time and effort, thats all that is being asked.

 

[Michael Logan]

I lament I finally give up. After going around myself and trying to work out a feasible arrangement to make this acceptable, I give up. I have filed an FTC complaint

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en#last

Against Sony, Electronic Arts, Microsoft and Valve. This cannot be allowed to stand and MUST be brought before higher authority so that it may be evaluated and deemed unenforcable much like all of these ToS modifications cover their asses against.

I wholeheartedly recommend every one to do the same. Even if you accepted the terms and conditions and simply disagree with it. Actually do something to voice that disagreement. File a complaint. This will never be undone if we do nothing to call bullshit on this. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. So show them that this wheel is most certainly squeaking for hundreds of thousands of customers.

Too often we say we are against something and do nothing. This is not much to ask. It would take 15 minutes of your time but together it can actually accomplish something. Do it, ask your friends to do the same. Even if you dont see how it effects you, know it does effect others and do it to protect the rights of people and trust them to know when their rights are threatened.

Seriously. DO IT. THen proliferate this request anywhere you can.

Im yielding my steam account because I will not be bullied into complying with something I cannot be made to agree to. 15 minutes of your time and effort, thats all that is being asked.

I wouldnt worry to much about it, their ToS wont hold up in court anyway.

 

[viranimus]

I wouldnt worry to much about it, their ToS wont hold up in court anyway.

It has little or nothing to do with how "enforcable" it is. The reason why there should be worry over it is because it is wrong of them to even ask this. These companies keep pushing their consumers and try to bully them into accepting things that hurt them as customers. They will not stop pushing until we as consumers and as a collective illustrate we are capable of pushing back.

Thats why we need to do something about this now while we still have the means to. We are the consumers, we are the one who actually has the power and control in this arrangement. Without us and the money behind us, their products are useless and its long overdue the people actually exercising that control instead of just accepting whatever youre told as acceptable.