Achievement Whoredomination

[Cherry Cola]

The Red-Protodrake is for sale for 1800 gold with top faction from the Wyrmrest Temple in Dragonblight if I recall, nothing special about that. If you mean the VIOLET Protodrake, that one comes from getting every world event achievement for an entire year (ie being present for every holiday and completing all activities in the event). That's a bit tricky since it takes persistant, and some of the things like the Noble Garden egg-camping bit take a lot of time and dedication.

You're thinking of the this achievement [http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43955].

I don't think that everyone should get the most uber loot by any stretch of the matter. But when they're putting HUGE amounts of their resources into developing content for 10% of the playerbase, that's incredibly idiotic. If I've been a Warcraft fan since WC3, I sure as bloody hell want to fight Arthas. And if I don't get to experience the end of the story without throwing my life away to a game, I'm going to be pissed.

I did the whole hardcore raider thing Pre-BC. I almost lost my life to this game.

The current way is hundreds of times better than Classic ever was.

The idea of 30 people running around at once all carrying Frostmourne (or pieces of it, or whatever) is exactly the kind of thing I do NOT want to see in the game.

I agree with this 100%, and don't think every casual player who plays for a few hours a week should be able to defeat Arthas, the man who has completely turned the world around and wrecked havoc on everything. This man murdered his father, and destroyed all of Lordaeron, killing thousands of people.

He defeated Ilidan, and has bounded his soul with Ner'Zul's and taken control of the Scourge. This man is one of the most bad ass motherfuckers there is, and it will be laughable when truly casual players will be killing him.

And please don't give me this bullshit about "Well the hard modes are there for the hardecore players so its harder for them and gives them a challenge, yet everyone else can kill him!" because it doesn't make it right that one of the toughest, scariest, and evilest bastards in the game will be so easy to defeat.

Also, Blizzard has already said Frostmourne will not drop.

Sorry, but I think you're dead wrong.

I think everybody should be able to experience the game's content as written, with a decent amount of effort - not devoting their lives to the game. I know some people have been wanting to kick Arthas' ass since TFT, and if they can't do it just because they don't have twenty hours a week to waste on the game, they have every right to be goddamn pissed.

It makes no sense to develop content that the majority of the playerbase will never see. It creates unnecessary elitism, it's an idiotic waste of resources, and it gates people from seeing the best part of WoW.

The hard modes ARE there for the hardcore players, to give them their e-peen and bragging rights. That is the exact thing that they should be there for, and just wanting to keep the status quo the status quo so you (metaphorical you, not actual you) can feel better about consigning your life away to a videogame is horribly shortsighted.

What do you think about Arthas being a 5-man instance boss? I for one love the idea, since I don't really like to raid that much and prefer instances.

 

[DObs]

Question: If you could get every single bit of kit and achievement on your own and without grouping how many ppl do you think would group on WoW?

Answer: The (estimate)%10 of hardcore(real) gamers who have been doing it since launch, why? because another (10%) of the population are part time(fun)players and the other (80%)are social outcasts who hate each other(bad) players both of which only group to get said loot and achievements for braggin rights

Conclusion: %90 of WoW players are... well you do the math

 

[Swaki]

incidentally "Achieving Azeroth" was the very first article i read on the escapist, and 4 months and 1 day later i still enjoy your articles.

i even forgive you for making me try Aion.

 

[Doug]

Interesting about the WoW achievements, I might give it another go (I did give a trial a go before, but pretty much gave up after 2 days).

EVE online has something similar to the 'training direction' achievements you mentioned in the article - they have a 'certificate' system, to which you get awarded for training up certain skills. For example, "Resource Harvest - Standard" means you've got the foundation mining skills down.

However, its seems as if WoW has the system how to be more accessible and compehensive, and to offer the 'buzz' of achievement to even the top grade players.

 

[Doug]

incidentally "Achieving Azeroth" was the very first article i read on the escapist, and 4 months and 1 day later i still enjoy your articles.

i even forgive you for making me try Aion.

Was Aion any good then?

 

[Distorted Stu]

Im not a WoW player, but i do liek a good boss, so those achievments do look good.. just it may take forever.

 

[Swaki]

incidentally "Achieving Azeroth" was the very first article i read on the escapist, and 4 months and 1 day later i still enjoy your articles.

i even forgive you for making me try Aion.

Was Aion any good then?

meh, the first 16 levels where.. okay, but then the grinding took in, and if you thought that WoW or any other game in the history for that matter was grindy, you are wrong, and it was quite hard on the player, the mobs where hard and it had quite a penalty for death, almost no quests, no mount before around the 30s which is quite allot of gaming.

i didn't have any fun whit it after the 10 hour mark and i was barely entertained during those ten, i cant recommend it.

 

[Doug]

incidentally "Achieving Azeroth" was the very first article i read on the escapist, and 4 months and 1 day later i still enjoy your articles.

i even forgive you for making me try Aion.

Was Aion any good then?

meh, the first 16 levels where.. okay, but then the grinding took in, and if you thought that WoW or any other game in the history for that matter was grindy, you are wrong, and it was quite hard on the player, the mobs where hard and it had quite a penalty for death, almost no quests, no mount before around the 30s which is quite allot of gaming.

i didn't have any fun whit it after the 10 hour mark and i was barely entertained during those ten, i cant recommend it.

Figured so. Ah well, I'll stick with Eve for now, maybe try WoW later on.

 

[Swaki]

incidentally "Achieving Azeroth" was the very first article i read on the escapist, and 4 months and 1 day later i still enjoy your articles.

i even forgive you for making me try Aion.

Was Aion any good then?

meh, the first 16 levels where.. okay, but then the grinding took in, and if you thought that WoW or any other game in the history for that matter was grindy, you are wrong, and it was quite hard on the player, the mobs where hard and it had quite a penalty for death, almost no quests, no mount before around the 30s which is quite allot of gaming.

i didn't have any fun whit it after the 10 hour mark and i was barely entertained during those ten, i cant recommend it.

Figured so. Ah well, I'll stick with Eve for now, maybe try WoW later on.

and just to make sure, when i tried to cancel my subscription (3 times) it never took in, i tried contacting them and after 40 min of waiting and redirecting all i got was an "I'm afraid i cant let you do that Saki" (not really, but it didn't cancel my subscription) i had to close my card and go 1 week without just so they wouldn't take my money.

but do try WoW, i had 2 years of fun whit that game, it even got me laid once.

 

[Therumancer]

I stand corrected on the Drakes.

When it comes to Arthas, well I think that sort of defines the problem right there. Arthas is one of the world wide big-bads, indeed the entire current world balance more or less revolves around him. He's epically powerful and BA. He is not the kind of opponent just anyone in the game should be able to walk in and fight, that would make the whole idea into a bloody joke if you had casual players running in and farming THE LICH KING!

[...]

No "Final Boss" is satisfying if he just keels over and dies from trivial effort.

THough I believe we're about to find out tomorrow, I'll say my piece.

First, the Icecrown Citadel raid looks to be on par with Ulduar with respect to size and difficulty. With the extension on raid lockouts, what you'll likely see is a lot of raiding guilds doing a couple bosses a week and extending the raid lockout. This is a method that will be open to a vast majority of people but will still give it an epic feel. This will certainly prevent it from being "farmed".

Furthermore, it will have hard modes. You think you're in a serious raiding guild? Beat those. I know I'm not in one, and as much as I'd love to have those nice proto-drakes, I will probably never get them. That's no concern though, because I still will have a chance to "finish" the current storyline as it were. And honestly, everyone SHOULD have that chance. It's a game, not life.

If you kill the guy as quickly as the game allows you to, then he's being farmed. It just means that you do the fight again and again. That's not something just anyone in the game should be able to do in a game like this.

The way I think about this is that everyone DOES have a chance. They just need to play enough and get good enough at the game. Nobody prevents you from doing so except for you.

Allowing the majority of players to waltz in and kill Arthas without having to jump through tons of hoops and gradually develeop the nessicary skills defeats the entire purpose. Sort of like giving you the final encounter in another game (RPG or twitchy finger) right off the bat and making it so the monster falls down dead easily.

The entire point of a final boss in any game is that it takes a lot of work and mastery of the game to get that far, whether it's an RPG, a shooter, or a platformer. A lot of people who simply don't have the time, or just never have the skills "click" with them don't get that far. Argueing that anyone should be able to kill Arthas is the same as saying that in buying ANY game the player should be handed victory without actually having to play.

Now granted, the nature of an MMORPG means that unlike other games that you could master and defeat in a week, it can depend on skills that take months or even years to develop. MMORPGS are very long term games, and anyone who plays one should be able to understand this.

For the record while I used to be "hardcore" right now my guild is fairly middle of the road. We're not even trying to go head to head with other guilds. We have however universally put a VERY long time into this game, developing our characters, and developing the skills needed to win these fights.

People who talk about "Hard Modes" really don't seem to get it, and probably don't actually know what a hard mode IS for most bosses. In some cases like Mimiron there is literally a button you can push that makes the fight harder. However in most cases "hard mode" is simply a DPS race, like with the Deconstructor, Thorim, or Hodir. Generally speaking anyone who fights these battles as quickly as possible and assembles enough gear to increase their abillity for raiding is going to wind up doing most Hard Modes. In Hodir's case it's simply a matter of doing what you normally do, but having big enough numbers involved on your side that you can kill him before he destroys a chest in the room. With Thorim it's being able to cover the tunnel and arena fast enough to engage while his girl is present. With the Deconstuctor it's about destroying the heart and then dealing with a higher damage rating from his tantrum and more frequent use of abillities.

The idea of a Hard Mode is pretty much for raiders to have something else to work towards once they have beaten a boss. Not really an "alternative" to fighting the boss normally in most cases. In general if your killing the boss and can activate the hard mode, chances are you can beat the hard mode with a bit of practice, if what is designated as "hard mode" is an actual change to the fight rather than a DPS timer.

My point is simply that Arthas is more or less the "Final Boss" of Warcraft lore. Granted Cataclysm will introduce new threats, but the bottom line is he's the end of the storyline and what a lot of people have been working towards since day #1. It is just plain wrong to let people who have not endured the trials and tribulations to even SEE the final boss fight, never mind have a chance to win it.

It's just like any other game, you need to work at it and master it to see the end. If they wind up pretty much just handing the game to you, what's the point of playing?

 

[ark123]

Do people still play this? It looks like shit.

you know whats great about it looking like shit?

everyone and their grandma can play it

also, with most games, it should be gameplay first, graphics second

based on your statement, im assuming your disappointed if everything doesnt look like crysis

good day to you sir

Yes, I sort of do.
Here's a thought: Instead of releasing expansions with the same graphics for a ton of money every few months, why doesn't Blizzard take a couple of the gazillion dollars they make a year for this and re-render the entire game, import every single character and re-release it, effectively recruiting people that, like me, wants 2007+ graphics on their games, getting back the people who stopped playing and giving faithful costumers a huge pat on the back?

 

[John Funk]

Do people still play this? It looks like shit.

you know whats great about it looking like shit?

everyone and their grandma can play it

also, with most games, it should be gameplay first, graphics second

based on your statement, im assuming your disappointed if everything doesnt look like crysis

good day to you sir

Yes, I sort of do.
Here's a thought: Instead of releasing expansions with the same graphics for a ton of money every few months, why doesn't Blizzard take a couple of the gazillion dollars they make a year for this and re-render the entire game, import every single character and re-release it, effectively recruiting people that, like me, wants 2007+ graphics on their games, getting back the people who stopped playing and giving faithful costumers a huge pat on the back?

Because that would cut out the portion of their playerbase that plays it on suboptimal machines, which are a lot more than you'd think. I played it at first on a crappy Dell Latitude laptop; I'd have never played it if it had the graphics requirements of a more taxing game.

Considering its age, the game compensates for lower poly counts with some of the best art direction out there in the industry.

And I think you really don't have much of a handle on how game development works if you think any problem can just be solved by throwing money at it.

My point is simply that Arthas is more or less the "Final Boss" of Warcraft lore. Granted Cataclysm will introduce new threats, but the bottom line is he's the end of the storyline and what a lot of people have been working towards since day #1. It is just plain wrong to let people who have not endured the trials and tribulations to even SEE the final boss fight, never mind have a chance to win it.

It's just like any other game, you need to work at it and master it to see the end. If they wind up pretty much just handing the game to you, what's the point of playing?

I don't think I've ever seen a post from you less than five paragraphs, for the record

I disagree, if only because the amount of time and effort you need to sink into seeing the final boss of an MMO is WAY disproportional to what you need to sink into any other game. Do you think that people who played Halo 3 should have been denied getting to see how the story ended if they couldn't play the game at a competitive level? Of course not, that'd be absurd.

 

[Eldarion]

I stand corrected on the Drakes.

When it comes to Arthas, well I think that sort of defines the problem right there. Arthas is one of the world wide big-bads, indeed the entire current world balance more or less revolves around him. He's epically powerful and BA. He is not the kind of opponent just anyone in the game should be able to walk in and fight, that would make the whole idea into a bloody joke if you had casual players running in and farming THE LICH KING!

[...]

No "Final Boss" is satisfying if he just keels over and dies from trivial effort.

THough I believe we're about to find out tomorrow, I'll say my piece.

First, the Icecrown Citadel raid looks to be on par with Ulduar with respect to size and difficulty. With the extension on raid lockouts, what you'll likely see is a lot of raiding guilds doing a couple bosses a week and extending the raid lockout. This is a method that will be open to a vast majority of people but will still give it an epic feel. This will certainly prevent it from being "farmed".

Furthermore, it will have hard modes. You think you're in a serious raiding guild? Beat those. I know I'm not in one, and as much as I'd love to have those nice proto-drakes, I will probably never get them. That's no concern though, because I still will have a chance to "finish" the current storyline as it were. And honestly, everyone SHOULD have that chance. It's a game, not life.

If you kill the guy as quickly as the game allows you to, then he's being farmed. It just means that you do the fight again and again. That's not something just anyone in the game should be able to do in a game like this.

The way I think about this is that everyone DOES have a chance. They just need to play enough and get good enough at the game. Nobody prevents you from doing so except for you.

Allowing the majority of players to waltz in and kill Arthas without having to jump through tons of hoops and gradually develeop the nessicary skills defeats the entire purpose. Sort of like giving you the final encounter in another game (RPG or twitchy finger) right off the bat and making it so the monster falls down dead easily.

The entire point of a final boss in any game is that it takes a lot of work and mastery of the game to get that far, whether it's an RPG, a shooter, or a platformer. A lot of people who simply don't have the time, or just never have the skills "click" with them don't get that far. Argueing that anyone should be able to kill Arthas is the same as saying that in buying ANY game the player should be handed victory without actually having to play.

Now granted, the nature of an MMORPG means that unlike other games that you could master and defeat in a week, it can depend on skills that take months or even years to develop. MMORPGS are very long term games, and anyone who plays one should be able to understand this.

For the record while I used to be "hardcore" right now my guild is fairly middle of the road. We're not even trying to go head to head with other guilds. We have however universally put a VERY long time into this game, developing our characters, and developing the skills needed to win these fights.

People who talk about "Hard Modes" really don't seem to get it, and probably don't actually know what a hard mode IS for most bosses. In some cases like Mimiron there is literally a button you can push that makes the fight harder. However in most cases "hard mode" is simply a DPS race, like with the Deconstructor, Thorim, or Hodir. Generally speaking anyone who fights these battles as quickly as possible and assembles enough gear to increase their abillity for raiding is going to wind up doing most Hard Modes. In Hodir's case it's simply a matter of doing what you normally do, but having big enough numbers involved on your side that you can kill him before he destroys a chest in the room. With Thorim it's being able to cover the tunnel and arena fast enough to engage while his girl is present. With the Deconstuctor it's about destroying the heart and then dealing with a higher damage rating from his tantrum and more frequent use of abillities.

The idea of a Hard Mode is pretty much for raiders to have something else to work towards once they have beaten a boss. Not really an "alternative" to fighting the boss normally in most cases. In general if your killing the boss and can activate the hard mode, chances are you can beat the hard mode with a bit of practice, if what is designated as "hard mode" is an actual change to the fight rather than a DPS timer.

My point is simply that Arthas is more or less the "Final Boss" of Warcraft lore. Granted Cataclysm will introduce new threats, but the bottom line is he's the end of the storyline and what a lot of people have been working towards since day #1. It is just plain wrong to let people who have not endured the trials and tribulations to even SEE the final boss fight, never mind have a chance to win it.

It's just like any other game, you need to work at it and master it to see the end. If they wind up pretty much just handing the game to you, what's the point of playing?

WoW elitist asshole if I have ever seen one.

You are saying that just because Arthas will be a 5 man that he will take no effort to kill??? You think that we are being "handed" victory for "free"????

Hey idiot, you have to get from level 1 to 80, do several other parts of Ice crown citadel, get decent gear, ect. That isn't being "handed" anything. Your post seems to imply that anything below raid content is easy free emblems. That is hardly the case. 5 man dungeons are difficult for the players who are supposed to be doing them. Before you got any epic gear, just hitting 80, how many times did your groups wipe on Argent confessor Paletress in normal ToC? If you say you have never wiped on that boss then either you are LYING or you got carried by people in full tier 9 gear. Even after getting full epics, she still eats people alive in the heroic mode. Then after getting better epic gear, she will kick your ass in the 10 and 25 man versions. 5 mans, heroics, and raids are are very hard if you do them while at the appropriate gear level. (meaning aren't over-geared) Its about progression and you can do different bosses at different levels but they will alwase be hard to kill for the people meant to be running them.

Arthas will be the biggest most epic 5 man boss in the history of WoW. He will take allot of effort and planning to kill, he will require a dedicated group of 5 people who all know what they are doing. Then there will be a raid to get the real gear wich will be just as hard for 10 people, then one for 25, ect.

 

[Doug]

but do try WoW, i had 2 years of fun whit that game, it even got me laid once.

Wait, what? Do tell... I didn't think the disc could be used like that!

 

[coldfrog]

I stand corrected on the Drakes.

When it comes to Arthas, well I think that sort of defines the problem right there. Arthas is one of the world wide big-bads, indeed the entire current world balance more or less revolves around him. He's epically powerful and BA. He is not the kind of opponent just anyone in the game should be able to walk in and fight, that would make the whole idea into a bloody joke if you had casual players running in and farming THE LICH KING!

[...]

No "Final Boss" is satisfying if he just keels over and dies from trivial effort.

THough I believe we're about to find out tomorrow, I'll say my piece.

First, the Icecrown Citadel raid looks to be on par with Ulduar with respect to size and difficulty. With the extension on raid lockouts, what you'll likely see is a lot of raiding guilds doing a couple bosses a week and extending the raid lockout. This is a method that will be open to a vast majority of people but will still give it an epic feel. This will certainly prevent it from being "farmed".

Furthermore, it will have hard modes. You think you're in a serious raiding guild? Beat those. I know I'm not in one, and as much as I'd love to have those nice proto-drakes, I will probably never get them. That's no concern though, because I still will have a chance to "finish" the current storyline as it were. And honestly, everyone SHOULD have that chance. It's a game, not life.

If you kill the guy as quickly as the game allows you to, then he's being farmed. It just means that you do the fight again and again. That's not something just anyone in the game should be able to do in a game like this.

[...]

It's just like any other game, you need to work at it and master it to see the end. If they wind up pretty much just handing the game to you, what's the point of playing?

So what you're saying is, someone who has leveled to 80, likely playing well over 100 hours or more, earns enough high level loot and is actually able to beat the boss, still doesn't deserve to fight them?

Lets put this in video game terms here. We're playing a game. Most games take 20-30 hours to beat. You could put in 5 hours a week in something like Ulduar and still not finish it, and that's just one raid. I highly doubt that the average person will be able to complete icecrown citadel without putting in about 20 hours of time to it. If that's not enough dedication to complete a video game, than what is?

After that, if they want to beat it over and over again for loot, who cares? I have no doubt that first time was epic enough.

 

[Swaki]

but do try WoW, i had 2 years of fun whit that game, it even got me laid once.

Wait, what? Do tell... I didn't think the disc could be used like that!

well i met my first love because we where in the same guild and luckily lived 10min from each other, but thats not the story of the getting laid, that was more my incredible charm, i was on a trip to London about a year ago and ran into this drunk chick wearing a horde t-shirt, we talked about our characters and the game AND NOTHING ELSE for an hour before we went back to my room.
also, roll horde, its where the chicks are.

 

[Chipperz]

but do try WoW, i had 2 years of fun whit that game, it even got me laid once.

Wait, what? Do tell... I didn't think the disc could be used like that!

well i met my first love because we where in the same guild and luckily lived 10min from each other, but thats not the story of the getting laid, that was more my incredible charm, i was on a trip to London about a year ago and ran into this drunk chick wearing a horde t-shirt, we talked about our characters and the game AND NOTHING ELSE for an hour before we went back to my room.
also, roll horde, its where the chicks are.

Not true - most wives and girlfriends will roll Alliance, no matter what side their other half is playing. At least half of these girls will bring in mates.

Good times being the only guy in the WAG guild!

 

[sunpop]

I will say what I always say in response to people making fun of the guy who "Beat" world of warcraft and that is calling him a nerd or saying he needs a life when you are on a site like this is the Pot calling the kettle black. He is a nerd I'm a nerd you are too and this whole site is built around that concept and I know we all have done something ridiculous that only we could be proud of doing.

I played rampage for weeks on end to try and beat it knowing that I would see this new york level a good 50 more times only stopping because my n64 memory card broke.

Am I proud of playing rampage for that long hell yeah, should I be of course not. Should he be proud of playing wow this much the answer of course is no but I'm sure he is proud of it. However I know that I sure as hell am in no position to mock this man.

 

[Therumancer]

[quote="ark123" post="6.160039.4049323

I don't think I've ever seen a post from you less than five paragraphs, for the record

I disagree, if only because the amount of time and effort you need to sink into seeing the final boss of an MMO is WAY disproportional to what you need to sink into any other game. Do you think that people who played Halo 3 should have been denied getting to see how the story ended if they couldn't play the game at a competitive level? Of course not, that'd be absurd.

-

Sorry, I do tend to ramble.

The differance is that Halo 3 and WoW is that the storyline is intended to be single player, so of course the end of the story is something a single player developing enough skills to get that far should be able to see.

With Arthas your argueing more along the lines of saying that a guy who only plays single player should feel entitled to the multiplayer perks in a game like that. Sort of like saying that they should just hand you the various hammers for multiplayer achievements in "Red Faction: Gueriella" simply because you bought the game. Facing Arthas should be a reward
you have to earn through developed skill and dedication. Now granted something persistant like an MMORPG takes a lot more skill and dedication than other games by it's nature, but that doesn't change the final equasion.