Actual Nice Guys

[Loner Jo Jo]

I have a question. If this is simple a question of being personable and how other people will perceive you, why does it matter if that person has a penis or a vagina? I can understand this whole "I'm afraid they'll think I'm an idiot so I'll be quiet thing." However, I'm right on the dividing line being introvert and extrovert (at least according to that Myer-Briggs test), so if I can think of something to say or if someone strikes up a conversation with me first, I'll do it. However, to me, it doesn't matter if that person is male or female if it's just for the purposes of being sociable.

Maybe this is a bit simplistic. After all, attraction cannot be factored out especially for people like you and me. (I'm assuming you are in your 20s or 30s and therefore are looking for a relationship if you aren't already in one.) However, sometimes, it's just nice to talk to people, you know, one human being to the next. Being female, I can say that when a guy randomly talks to me, the vast majority of the time, I don't think they're trying to hit on me and they don't creep me out. (There are exceptions, but I'm talking about average dudes.) In fact, I appreciate it when a person will spark up a conversation with me randomly. People are meant to interact with other people; we're social creatures. The same goes when another woman sparks a conversation with me. It makes my day a little better, even if it's just a conversation about the weather.

If you want advice, the more people you talk to, the easier it becomes to talk to people. I would start off with people who don't intimidate you as much, so for you, I would say other guys or older people. Seriously, the elderly are the best people to talk to. They don't give a fuck anymore so they'll talk to just about anyone and they have the best stories. Strike up a conversation at a check out line or in an elevator or something. It's not easy, I know, but once you build up your confidence in this area a bit, it'll help.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Oh, and the other thing we can spot a mile off and which is an instant turn-off? Desperation. It really sounds like you're trying too hard, sort of like you'd settle for anyone. Now there's nothing wrong with feeling like that (we've all been there), but women aren't going to like that feeling. It's like you don't have any real feelings for them as an individual, you're just seeing them as another potential hookup. I'd suggest taking a step back, trying not to actively pursue women for a little while. Focus on getting to like yourself (if you haven't at least made peace with yourself how can you expect anyone else to get involved?

This is the sort of thing I'm talking about- you come across as desperate, and probably a bit "weird" with the party comment. You're intentions are clearly good, but you're not expressing yourself in the best way, that's all. But kudos on talking to her and everything- practice makes perfect and all that.

Yeah, I can definitely see that. My other nonstarter-relationship with a woman ended partly because of this. When it started, I think we were both pretty desperate and had a lot of problems with ourselves. We overcame a lot of distance and obstacles to finally meet and have sex (after many months of skyping), only to have it suddenly fade out. Her explanation fit within those lines of "you only like me because you have no one else" and that she felt "used." All I had in response was "but I love you" and that just doesn't mean much to someone who doesn't love you back anymore.

But yeah, I can see why the party thing was weird, but I really don't know many people and certainly not any of her friends. I mean if I'm gonna be friend zoneded, at least actually be my friend. I don't want to judge though and that's all in the past as far as I'm concerned. However, taking a step back and not trying at all doesn't seem like a really great option. I was not trying at all for many years and it didn't get me anywhere. If anything, I think I've done a little too much introspection.

I have a question. If this is simple a question of being personable and how other people will perceive you, why does it matter if that person has a penis or a vagina?

Women hold a power over me. I care what they think about me way more than men, I'm more likely to avoid them if I think I'd make them uncomfortable, and I'll feel much worse if they tell me to leave them the fuck alone. For awhile, it was a borderline phobia. It probably stems from bullying and various bad experiences through the years. In any case, using things like a dating site, chat roulette and web forums, I feel like I'm getting better at the subtle art of shooting the shit for it's own sake.

 

[Conqueror Kenny]

I think you need to realise being nice is not a bad thing, if it's who you are it's who you are. I don't think anybody who knows me will actually call me a "nice guy", I speak my mind even when I know my opinion will be unpopular. But that's who I am, if they don't like me then why should I bother with them?

I used to be like you, timid and somewhat awkward always thinking about what other people think of me and I hated myself for that, I would let people walk all over me and I hated myself for that even more. Eventually I decided to just be myself, cliché but being yourself isn't always being the person you think you should be, it's being who you are, there's a very big difference. I've found myself more comfortable talking to people because I'm not thinking about what they want me to say and that made talking to strangers seem more natural.

Seriously stop thinking about what everybody else thinks of you and just do you, the people that actually like you will stick around, those that don't won't, and if they don't like the real you what's the point in putting up an act just to impress an attractive girl? It won't lead anywhere because she will see through it eventually. But there's no way for people to know if they like you if you never talk to them, so just start a chat with anybody, you only live once.

 

[LilithSlave]

I love nice guys. Actual nice guys are actually my type, and they seem far too rare. Also, too many guys who define themselves as "nice guys" are really bitter and mean people who act in an asocial fashion and don't socialize. And define being "assertive" as being some jerk macho "alpha macho" douche. A nice guy isn't who they're being, and an assertive guy isn't the same either, or more assertive than popular women. An assertive guy is just like popular women, and hopefully he's also nice.

I see nice guys, I like nice guys. They're the guys out in town with a great smile on their face and a great disposition and a good sense of humor, always willing to help out, and with good social skills. And by social skills, I don't mean macho dominance. I mean being considerate. When a good looking guy smiles at me and says something nice and socially appropriate, it makes my heart melt. That first part sounded shallow, sorry. But that type of behavior itself is charismatic, on both guys and girls.

Being nice is sexy. Especially if you know how to be outgoing and infectious about it.

I suggest being a nice guy. Just be extroverted about it, too. People like that not only make people fall in love with them. But they tend to succeed in all areas of life. People want to hire them, people want to do things for them. And don't forget to smile!

 

[Powereaver]

I tend to find 2 things that ive found.. women tend to find "nice guys" boring because they tend to meet them all the time and they want something a lot different especially in their 20's... they do grow out of it after a while tho im assured.. and b) never say to someone flat out "im a nice guy" its the old saying.. a criminal never pleads guilty or whatever.

 

[Terminal Blue]

In my experience, I don't think the "nice guy" thing actually exists.

Younger guys often have a hard time understanding girls (and visa versa, but I've not experienced that side of things so can't really talk) so we make we make up "rules" about women to try and explain their behaviour wherein it doesn't immediately make sense, the "nice guy" thing is one of those.

Of course, It doesn't hurt that guys who see themselves as rough and tumble alpha male types can use this myth to basically hype their own self image and turn themselves into high school celebrities, but that's not what is really going on.

Girls and women are not cyphers, they don't follow these bizarre rules about who they're "meant" to be attracted to any more than guys are only ever attracted to magazine models. They are individual people who happen to have vaginas, and in my experience the more capable you are of treating them as such the more they will respect you and get on with you.

That said, let me suggest some alternative "rules". They aren't really rules, of course, they're generalizations. But they might help.

You actually are trying to get into girls' pants.
Every so often on this site you'll see someone say "why do girls always treat me like I'm trying to come onto them?" Well, it's probably because you are, and you need to have the courage to admit that you are.

Having someone hit on you in and of itself is not scary. It's often quite a nice experience even if you don't feel like reciprocating it. If people are responding badly to you when you do it, it's probably because you're doing something wrong. The most likely candidate is that you're doing it too awkwardly. Like I said, women are people, they can spot a forced compliment or a fake smile as easily as you could (probably easier). Another possible candidate is that you aren't taking the hint. People very seldom say outright "sorry, I'm not attracted to you", because they know it would hurt you to hear it. If someone doesn't respond to you hitting on them, it's not because they haven't noticed (not unless you're being ridiculously subtle yourself).

I'm not being mean. I can only afford to say this because I'm 27 and I've learned the hard way. Noone teaches you how to approach people you're attracted to, it's something you have to learn, and the only way you can learn is by not being ashamed of what you're doing. You don't automatically look desperate or needy for hitting on someone or dropping an early compliment, it's precisely how you behave which will determine whether it's a pleasant experience for the object of your affections. Don't be afraid to learn.

Sex is not a commodity.
I know that's quite a dramatic heading, but what I'm basically saying is that you're not going to win someone's heart or get between their legs by doing favours for them.

If you do things for people, or help them out, you aren't automatically sending the message that you're attracted to them, and you certainly aren't favourably predisposing them to see you as a potential sex partner. Their attraction to you or otherwise is it's own thing, it's generally not based on what you do for them. Again, it's something which will come across in how you behave, not what you do.

Maybe you are just trying to be friendly, in which case remember that friendships between men and women are just like any other friendship. They're built on shared interests, and they need a reason to exist. If you have a few awkward conversations and the other person doesn't find what you're saying interesting, they're not likely to see you as a friend, no matter what you do for them.

Which brings me to..

Friendships don't have to go anywhere.
You'll often hear people talk about the "friend zone". Having only generally had relationships with people I've already been friends with, I don't think there's really such a thing.

What I would say is that friendship is not an automatic way into anything more. Most people decide quite quickly whether they're attracted to someone. Yes, there are moments like on every soap opera ever when you suddenly realize you have a thing for someone you've known for ages, but generally I think it's something you always knew anyway and probably would have responded to. Attraction doesn't grow out of just being close friends for a long period of time, people have preferences, and you'll have an easier time if you respect them and don't expect anything just because you're "emotionally close" to someone through friendship.

 

[Fishyash]

I'm just going to go with the sentiment of other posters in regards to it not making a difference wether the person you are being nice to is male or female.

You should be nice to them equally regardless of gender, and I don't really think being nice is a selling point to get women in of itself, it's based around what you think of each other, interests, physical attarction etc., and the easiest way to get a good relationship towards someone (friends or more) is to be yourself, make who you are known to the recipient.

PS: Your OP seemed like borderline rumination, you really should try and avoid doing that, it's not healthy.

PSS: I want to go on chatroulette or omegle now...

 

[Ieyke]

Me, I'm a genuine "nice guy". I am just outright openly nice to people and will be that way no matter what motivations they happen to assume that I have.
It's their problem if they want to be paranoid morons.

I don't like most people, but I'm nice to 'em anyways.

I'm gonna be however the hell I want to be, and people can assume what they want. If a girl just assumes any guy that's nice to her just wants to have sex with her, then that usually means she's probably not the type of person I want to deal with anyways. *shrug*

 

[zelda2fanboy]

PS: Your OP seemed like borderline rumination, you really should try and avoid doing that, it's not healthy.

PSS: I want to go on chatroulette or omegle now...

Hmm, I know what that word means, but I think he's referring to some sort of symptom.... *googles rumination* Holy crap! I've SO been doing that a ton. I've been making myself utterly miserable with it for the last month and I had no idea. Why did no one tell me about this before? Thank you. I will try to avoid this practice in the future. I need to go back to writing fiction again.

zelda2fanboy, don't expect girls to make the first move. We are remarkably bad at figuring out who's interested and who isn't.

Not always. The girl I made out with that one time months ago actually sort of jumped my bones, so to speak. I never ever would have made the first move and I'm so glad that she did. Even though that relationship was frustrating and unfulfilling, I was lucky to have met her.