Adult Themes
- Thread starter Sean Sands
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If it's OK for movies to depict sex scenes, then why the fuck isn't it ok for games? I'm not saying games should go all out and just throw a porno scene in there, but if it's meaningfull to the story, then why not include a love scene? Movies do it all the time, so what exactly is the difference between movies and games? I'm pretty sure kids and adults watch and play both, so the arguement that sex in games is harmfull to children is pure bullshit, or movies would have been banned long ago...
As long as the adult themes (read hot doage) has something to do with the story, then it should be in the game. Mass Effect did it mostly right, though it could be better. The whole Hot Coffee thing also did it right imo. You have to date at least one woman to further the story, why not show them doing it? Even make you control it? I mean, the game is already filled with violence, why not sex?
But yeah, I don't think I can add something really new to this, other than this: Even porn can be used to tell a story. If you search for a webcomic called Chester 5000 you will find a gem of a comic, with a wonderful style, story and lots of steamy sex. It is certainly NSFW, and some might find it distastefull. But it is a perfect example of how to do it right. Now, I am not saying I want the sex thrown in my face so blatantly as in that comic, but why not have some of it? As long as it feels meaningful that is.
But yeah, I don't think I can add something really new to this, other than this: Even porn can be used to tell a story. If you search for a webcomic called Chester 5000 you will find a gem of a comic, with a wonderful style, story and lots of steamy sex. It is certainly NSFW, and some might find it distastefull. But it is a perfect example of how to do it right. Now, I am not saying I want the sex thrown in my face so blatantly as in that comic, but why not have some of it? As long as it feels meaningful that is.
The article made me think of that time in Fallout 2 where you met a girl (or her brother--and had opportunity for both regardless of the gender of your player) and if you were kind to her, she basically jumped you. Cutscene fast forwards to her father walking in on you, and forcing you to marry the gal/fellow, who then will insist staying loyally by your side through the whole of the game (and she will stay with you to the entire end if you don't let her get killed).
I was a little put off by the fact that I had no choice in reciprocating the girl's advances, but I thought it was a cute scenario. And I loved how your spouse insisted on staying with you through thick and thin (and if you gave her a submachine gun and made sure her AI made her keep her distance, she could even be helpful sometimes in combat). But I was very disappointed that they didn't let your spouse have much dialogue beyond "I wanna stay with you, pookie," and she couldn't even level up or gain skills properly. You could however, if you wanted, sell her into slavery or hire her out to a porn studio. Because, I suppose, that was funny in some sad game developer's mind (and sadly, in the minds of a lot of players). But you couldn't try to have a meaningful relationship, or even turn the character into a deeply contributing party member--because the developers thought that would be boring? There is no love in the Wasteland (why not)? Here was a character they had made sweet and innocent and insistently loyal and then intended her solely to die horribly, be enslaved, or whored out. And to spite them (not that they knew), I protected her to the end, even getting her across that stupid electricity trap grid at the end of the game alive. In my own mind, the girl's loyalty had earned my character's loyalty, and they would live happily ever after. It was a great story. Just a shame it existed in my own mind, and clearly in opposition to the developer's intentions.
(But, for the record, I am absolutely sure the sex between Jinx and Miria was awesome.)
Moral of the story is, even back in 1999 there were opportunities to write both good sex and romance into games--maybe even better opportunities, when developers could fall back on text descriptions more (now EVERYTHING has to be animated and voice acted). But those opportunities, with rare exception, weren't taken. Maybe the problem isn't the immaturity of video game players, but those who make those games.
And the thing is, if you actually want a meaningful story that happens to involve some fun sex, you have to have a person who is both mature and talented enough to write it. Not to mention a publisher willing to give the dev a shot at something like that.
Good luck with that.
On a completely different note, I think game ratings need to be way more prominent on the box and in marketing, with a big giant note on the front saying, "YOU ARE A MORON IF YOU BUY THIS FOR YOUR CHILD, AND WE WILL FIND YOU, TAKE YOUR CHILDREN, AND KEEP YOU FROM SPAWNING EVER AGAIN IF YOU EVEN THINK ABOUT IT."
I was a little put off by the fact that I had no choice in reciprocating the girl's advances, but I thought it was a cute scenario. And I loved how your spouse insisted on staying with you through thick and thin (and if you gave her a submachine gun and made sure her AI made her keep her distance, she could even be helpful sometimes in combat). But I was very disappointed that they didn't let your spouse have much dialogue beyond "I wanna stay with you, pookie," and she couldn't even level up or gain skills properly. You could however, if you wanted, sell her into slavery or hire her out to a porn studio. Because, I suppose, that was funny in some sad game developer's mind (and sadly, in the minds of a lot of players). But you couldn't try to have a meaningful relationship, or even turn the character into a deeply contributing party member--because the developers thought that would be boring? There is no love in the Wasteland (why not)? Here was a character they had made sweet and innocent and insistently loyal and then intended her solely to die horribly, be enslaved, or whored out. And to spite them (not that they knew), I protected her to the end, even getting her across that stupid electricity trap grid at the end of the game alive. In my own mind, the girl's loyalty had earned my character's loyalty, and they would live happily ever after. It was a great story. Just a shame it existed in my own mind, and clearly in opposition to the developer's intentions.
(But, for the record, I am absolutely sure the sex between Jinx and Miria was awesome.)
Moral of the story is, even back in 1999 there were opportunities to write both good sex and romance into games--maybe even better opportunities, when developers could fall back on text descriptions more (now EVERYTHING has to be animated and voice acted). But those opportunities, with rare exception, weren't taken. Maybe the problem isn't the immaturity of video game players, but those who make those games.
And the thing is, if you actually want a meaningful story that happens to involve some fun sex, you have to have a person who is both mature and talented enough to write it. Not to mention a publisher willing to give the dev a shot at something like that.
Good luck with that.
On a completely different note, I think game ratings need to be way more prominent on the box and in marketing, with a big giant note on the front saying, "YOU ARE A MORON IF YOU BUY THIS FOR YOUR CHILD, AND WE WILL FIND YOU, TAKE YOUR CHILDREN, AND KEEP YOU FROM SPAWNING EVER AGAIN IF YOU EVEN THINK ABOUT IT."
Not only will you never get one, but it's been confirmed that the Great Firewall of Aussieland will be blocking everyone else's adult-only rated games.SL33TBL1ND said:
sex and nudity were slowly coming to games till 2 things put the brakes on , gta sa hiding hot coffee mode and a certain female showing a tit on tv , i have no problems with sex and nudity in games , to keep kids away from it is hypocritical when tv,movies , magazines and the net keep shoving it down their throats ... the parents need to be responsible for what their kids do, see and hear , but when people put false info out there about games it fucks it up for everyone ... ie gta3 ,they claimed you rape women , they are hookers also giving female characters big boobs doesn't help either ... oh yeah tee hee
Completely agree with everything in the article. A 12 rated film can have a sex scene in and maybe (god forbid) even show a bit of tit. And that has real actors in. Yet a far tamer scene in a game should of course be rated 18 because pixels have been proven time and time again to have much more impact.
The media have as big a role in the problems because they don't understand games - the Fox news debacle was reported by some ditsy blonde and some other woman, neither of who had a clue about the game (the most research one of them had done was to 'watch trailers of the game'). And then the guy from Spike TV (I think that's the name) was left ALONE to defend this while a panel of another 6 men and women (who again had never played Mass Effect) went on about how it was damaging to children blah blah blah.
The 2 idiots who started were also acting like smarmy idiots and being completely rude to this guy who they'd clearly brought on to make him look bad.
And yet gamers are still identified as 'immature'.
I know probably everyone's seen the report by the way it just pisses me off so much!
Like the article said, we have an image problem which is more than partly our fault, but how are we supposed to do anything when the treatment the industry is given (an industry that makes a lot of money) is as immature as we are perceived to be?
The media have as big a role in the problems because they don't understand games - the Fox news debacle was reported by some ditsy blonde and some other woman, neither of who had a clue about the game (the most research one of them had done was to 'watch trailers of the game'). And then the guy from Spike TV (I think that's the name) was left ALONE to defend this while a panel of another 6 men and women (who again had never played Mass Effect) went on about how it was damaging to children blah blah blah.
The 2 idiots who started were also acting like smarmy idiots and being completely rude to this guy who they'd clearly brought on to make him look bad.
And yet gamers are still identified as 'immature'.
I know probably everyone's seen the report by the way it just pisses me off so much!
Like the article said, we have an image problem which is more than partly our fault, but how are we supposed to do anything when the treatment the industry is given (an industry that makes a lot of money) is as immature as we are perceived to be?
i think its all a complete load of bull (not ur argument but the media/lawsuits) i mean sueing a game the has sex in it i mean these games are like 18 anyway right!? we are aloud to have sex at 16 but watching it in an 18 aged game is too far?!
i mean comon porn is everywere for kids to see i dont think parents realise how young kids understand sex these days. and lets face it how many time do porn sites get sued? i mean im thinking of the free ones that anyone can access easily and no one makes a fuss about it. its just aload of bull and as someone said probly in the article its not the consumer that complain its just people who dont think its right. clearly the people who have played the game have no problem!!
further more i think age rating is a load of bull take for instance cod 4 a 16 right now cod5 has more gore (alot more) and its a 15.... right. it just comes down to how much you can pribe people or having a turn gore(in this case porn)off option. and since when did non games decide what should be in games, isnt it enough that in the church there are those who have never had sex telling others how to have sex. furthermore if a company gets sued for a sex game right do you know how high the sales will rise!!! exactly! you dont care about us you just want money for yourself!!
i mean comon porn is everywere for kids to see i dont think parents realise how young kids understand sex these days. and lets face it how many time do porn sites get sued? i mean im thinking of the free ones that anyone can access easily and no one makes a fuss about it. its just aload of bull and as someone said probly in the article its not the consumer that complain its just people who dont think its right. clearly the people who have played the game have no problem!!
further more i think age rating is a load of bull take for instance cod 4 a 16 right now cod5 has more gore (alot more) and its a 15.... right. it just comes down to how much you can pribe people or having a turn gore(in this case porn)off option. and since when did non games decide what should be in games, isnt it enough that in the church there are those who have never had sex telling others how to have sex. furthermore if a company gets sued for a sex game right do you know how high the sales will rise!!! exactly! you dont care about us you just want money for yourself!!
The firewall will only affect those who don't know how to circumvent it. And circumventing it takes about 5 seconds to do a search on Google.AlexFromOmaha said:
If it follows the same lines as the other types of censorable material in games, i.e. violence or swearing, as soon as the floodgates open on sex then there will be manhunt esque games with the option of rape! Which is probably more sick than grisly murders. This is because sex is connected to very strong emotions in us humans, unlike captain price topping a bad guy.
The availability of illegal channels doesn't substantially influence legal ones (see, for example, American drug policy). Being able to VPN tunnel out for Japanese loli-hentai won't warm any legislative hearts to the idea of putting adult-themed games on store shelves.008Zulu said:
*sigh*
This argument gets brought up all the time, and the problem usually has nothing to do with the majority of gamers. I'm not going to reject everything in your article, because I think that any medium can be used to portray sensible an adult themes. No one thought comic books were good for anything until along came Alan Moore et al and suddenly we had graphic novels telling a deeply inclusive story. Everyone may hate Fahrenheit (Indigo Prophecy) but at the very least it tried to tell a story with some actual themes about right and wrong. Until the end, boy howdy.
Since this argument is apparently prevalent in Japan I can draw a fairly solid compaison to a well known phenomenon in the Western media. Young boy, acknowledged as the quiet type, introverted and a little weird, eventually gets tired of beig bullied for every single day of his adolescent life, with a systemn that doesn't care and freely available weaponry, buys a gun and goes on a shooting rampage. It is found that young boy at one point in his life walked into a video games shop and looked at a Wii archery game. Clearly his morals have been corrupted by the deadly gaming society and all games featuring violence should be destroyed.
Carry this argument over. Young boy rapes/sexually molests/makes an inappropriate comment to a classmate. It is found that at one point he played a game which featured a kiss between two consenting adults. His morals have clearly been OH DEAR!
It sounds ridiculous, but this is often the comparison that is being made. The other problems revolve (and I am right in saying this) around American censorship laws. A censorship law can tell you a lot about what a society thinks is acceptable or unacceptable, and the American censorship laws are far more concerned with sexual activity than violence (puritanical society, deeply Catholic etc). A game with huge amounts of violence may rate no more than an R (British 15) whereas even a hint of skin and you're getting an M (British 18,-ish). Since by this point I doubt anyone's still reading my post I'll just try and wrap up.
Gaming cannot change its image in the same way that comic books were not able to change their image. What it needs is a dedicated group of people, unconcerned with lawsuits and rabid religious crazies, who are willing to keep pushing that boundary until it breaks. But what that also takes are people willing to buy those games, which is where we come in, but of course this becomes a vicious circle. If the games are made and bought, then society will continue to condemn us who play and make them. Basically we're never going to see this issue resolved, but if we're willing to continue pushing at it, maybe the next generation can see some actual improvement.
This argument gets brought up all the time, and the problem usually has nothing to do with the majority of gamers. I'm not going to reject everything in your article, because I think that any medium can be used to portray sensible an adult themes. No one thought comic books were good for anything until along came Alan Moore et al and suddenly we had graphic novels telling a deeply inclusive story. Everyone may hate Fahrenheit (Indigo Prophecy) but at the very least it tried to tell a story with some actual themes about right and wrong. Until the end, boy howdy.
Since this argument is apparently prevalent in Japan I can draw a fairly solid compaison to a well known phenomenon in the Western media. Young boy, acknowledged as the quiet type, introverted and a little weird, eventually gets tired of beig bullied for every single day of his adolescent life, with a systemn that doesn't care and freely available weaponry, buys a gun and goes on a shooting rampage. It is found that young boy at one point in his life walked into a video games shop and looked at a Wii archery game. Clearly his morals have been corrupted by the deadly gaming society and all games featuring violence should be destroyed.
Carry this argument over. Young boy rapes/sexually molests/makes an inappropriate comment to a classmate. It is found that at one point he played a game which featured a kiss between two consenting adults. His morals have clearly been OH DEAR!
It sounds ridiculous, but this is often the comparison that is being made. The other problems revolve (and I am right in saying this) around American censorship laws. A censorship law can tell you a lot about what a society thinks is acceptable or unacceptable, and the American censorship laws are far more concerned with sexual activity than violence (puritanical society, deeply Catholic etc). A game with huge amounts of violence may rate no more than an R (British 15) whereas even a hint of skin and you're getting an M (British 18,-ish). Since by this point I doubt anyone's still reading my post I'll just try and wrap up.
Gaming cannot change its image in the same way that comic books were not able to change their image. What it needs is a dedicated group of people, unconcerned with lawsuits and rabid religious crazies, who are willing to keep pushing that boundary until it breaks. But what that also takes are people willing to buy those games, which is where we come in, but of course this becomes a vicious circle. If the games are made and bought, then society will continue to condemn us who play and make them. Basically we're never going to see this issue resolved, but if we're willing to continue pushing at it, maybe the next generation can see some actual improvement.
Characters had the potential to be complex even back in the days of MUDs. You don't need modern technology to write a good story.THAC0 said:
The first game I recall having "adult" themes was The Longest Journey. It was all pretty minor, but it was there: your landlady mentioning how awesome her sex with her girlfriend was, and some guy asking you if you were a virgin.
No, it was an emotional connection for the sake of having one, seriously. Both Ashley and the alien girl NEVER made any comments and barely even talked yet they were having a cat fight about me.. Wheres the logic in thatscnj said:
Any who, after two screwed up posts I have something to say. I don't really care sex or no sex... I mean I play games because I think explosions are pretty. In my opinion violence in a video game can serve as a good way to blow off steam (if your not a child). Sex not so much, it would be for the sake of characters, and story and blah blah blah. I play a game for fun. If you want a big complex story BUY A FRICKIN NOVEL... And please stop stereotyping all teenagers... I'm 15 and I don't act like these "teenagers" you seem to be talking about.
I dont really care for sex in games, not my cup of tea. But, it can be done well..even the original leisure suit larry games(which are now looked at as some horrid "porn game" from the past) weren't extremely sexual, they were very-tounge-in-cheek and funny. The real problem with this is not the "sex" itself , it is with the way "sex done right" in a game perpetuates "broish" behavior, IE "a conversation with a woman is merely a way to get sex". This is still a pretty new issue when it comes to debating if "doing sex right" is really any better then not doing it right, the industry still has plenty of time to mull over this issue and take it from there. I would say personally that in the long run sex done right in games doesn't bother me, but that is because i have a soul. But i think there are some serious quandaries any company should think about before they decide to have a sexual element in their game.
Also, ^ contradiction much?I said: