That's a great idea. I'd love to see that in action. Since the angsty teenage heroes are so commonly reviled nowadays, I'm sure it would get a standing ovation.WanderingFool said:
All JRPG needs to be liked again is to be gritty.
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Ah my bad, I wasn't actually being sarcastic with my description of the first 2 hours. I do find them endlessly enjoyable, although I can see how other people could get bored by it. Good storytelling just never gets old for me :3sageoftruth said:
As a general rule, if I call something hype i'm being serious XD
Hype is srs bsns
"Gritty"? As in "Throw sand on everything" gritty or "Everyone is a Jerk" Gritty.
Wait... Actually, It doesn't matter. I hate both! There, I said it!
All I want, is a game where I save the world with the power of Friendship, rainbows shoot out, everything is made of crystals, and people defy physics by their resolve to save the world.
That doesn't mean it can't be Dark, but NEVER confuse Dark with Gritty. Just because It's flipping Midnight doesn't mean I don't want to see the Moonlight shining off the buildings... in fact, I expect it!
Basically, I want Final Fantasy VS 13 already!
(If you have no idea whether I'm talking Figuratively, Metaphorically, or Literally with all these points... I mean all three.)
Wait... Actually, It doesn't matter. I hate both! There, I said it!
All I want, is a game where I save the world with the power of Friendship, rainbows shoot out, everything is made of crystals, and people defy physics by their resolve to save the world.
That doesn't mean it can't be Dark, but NEVER confuse Dark with Gritty. Just because It's flipping Midnight doesn't mean I don't want to see the Moonlight shining off the buildings... in fact, I expect it!
Basically, I want Final Fantasy VS 13 already!
(If you have no idea whether I'm talking Figuratively, Metaphorically, or Literally with all these points... I mean all three.)
You see, I actually disagree with you on a couple points.Christopher Fisher said:
I like the turn based combat of traditional JRPG's. What I do not like are all the attempts to make a halfway between an action game and the JRPG combat system. I could go into great detail about this, but I wont. I am lazy.
Also, by "allow dialog options that actually matter" I assume you want dialog options that allow you to shape the story instead of merely participating in the story. Again, this is an ok idea in theory, but having multiple story paths will inevitably lead to a shallow story (at least more shallow than it was before.) I prefer a deep story to participate in, even if I cannot shape that story.
This is not to say you are wrong on these points. It is a matter of personal preference. What this does demonstrate is that JRPG's are a niche genre broken into even smaller groups.
I think the main thing is to stop treating every game like it needs to be a AAA release. Instead of making one massive game that must appeal to everyone (resulting in a game that lacks focus that many people may like but no one will truly love,) a company could instead make smaller budget games that appeals greatly to their target crowds.
Besides, the JRPG was a genre born out of the hardware limitations of the NES level gaming. We don't need a modern scale development cycle to make a top tier JRPG.
...please OP, tell me that you're joking. JRPGs allready have their own brand of badly done, boring, annoying grimdarkness. Adding the WH40K style of badly done, boring, annoying grimdarkness to that would result in a wansgty black hole. What JRPGs need is to ditch the menu-combat systems or alter them into the Kingdom Hearts 2 style and get good writing and likeable characters again.
My apologies as well. I was actually directing this at the guy you were talking to. I was afraid it would be taken this way, given the way we all receive notifications when we are quoted. I was just backing you up, but I also agree that Persona 4, like any JRPG isn't for everyone.The Wykydtron said:
I think JRPGs should allow the players to characterize the main protagonists and put all the drama around the world they are in.
This is one reason why I love the Dragon Quest series so much, especially Dragon Quest 3.
-You're the hero, yourself.
-You go to a tavern and create your own party of characters. You can use your imagination to personalize your party!
-The events in the fictional world is where all the drama is taking place. Tragic love stories, kingdoms falling apart, a demon warlord bent on taking over the world, legends of powerful artifacts, etc.
This is one reason why I love the Dragon Quest series so much, especially Dragon Quest 3.
-You're the hero, yourself.
-You go to a tavern and create your own party of characters. You can use your imagination to personalize your party!
-The events in the fictional world is where all the drama is taking place. Tragic love stories, kingdoms falling apart, a demon warlord bent on taking over the world, legends of powerful artifacts, etc.
You want a really dark/gritty jrpg go play tactics ogre for the PlayStation one "not the psp port/remake" or the vandal hearts series.
JRPGs need to be less like overblown melodramatic animes, and more like experiences that can appeal to all ages. Earthbound and Chrono Trigger were magical experiences, and I can't remember when the last time was that I played a JRPG that kept me involved like either of those did. Well maybe Lost Oddssey, that game was amazing.
All this talk about the importance/unimportance of grittiness suddenly has me wondering what would happen if someone made sickeningly sweet versions of Dark Souls and Gears of War.
Persona 4 would totally be the greatest game EVER if the enemies were terrorists, every second word was a swear and if it was all dipped in lovely, gritty grey and brown!Exius Xavarus said:
Honestly, I think JRPGs are the only genre not to have a really brown and "gritty" game.
OP: Look at a pic of The Gapra Whitewood from FF13 and compare that to a "gritty" game... for example GTA4. I know which game I'd rather play.
I can only speak for myself, but fuck this gritty shit. Just because it works for asiof doesn't mean it jrpg developers have to emulate it. I don't want everything to be the same gritty stuff, of course a jrpg that emulates asiof can be great, but it doesn't mean everything has to be like it.
I think what is more disliked about jrpg's is the way that gameplay and story is in general disconnected from each other. I can't think of many jrpg's where I couldn't emulate the experience by watching a movie/reading a book for a few minutes, then doing some monotonous task for a while before I continue the book/movie.
That's in my case the reason for not finishing almost every jrpg I have played, I got bored of the gameplay.
Another thing I would love about jrpg's would be if more were released on PC.
I think what is more disliked about jrpg's is the way that gameplay and story is in general disconnected from each other. I can't think of many jrpg's where I couldn't emulate the experience by watching a movie/reading a book for a few minutes, then doing some monotonous task for a while before I continue the book/movie.
That's in my case the reason for not finishing almost every jrpg I have played, I got bored of the gameplay.
Another thing I would love about jrpg's would be if more were released on PC.
Kingdoms of Amalur had about as much grittiness as a Saturday Evening cartoon and it was pretty good.
Oblivion's politics were chocked up to "Dem demons hate you"
It doesn't need grittiness, the genre needs to stop being so damned silly and stop taking itself so seriously despite sed silliness.
Oblivion's politics were chocked up to "Dem demons hate you"
It doesn't need grittiness, the genre needs to stop being so damned silly and stop taking itself so seriously despite sed silliness.
No, what JRPGs need to do to be "liked again" (they still maintain a sizable fanbase, the gaming community has just expanded to include a lot of new people who don't care for them) is to do all the fun, crazy, interesting things that people liked JRPGs for in the first place. When I look at modern JRPGs, with their predictable assemblage of worn-out anime archetypes in increasingly samey scifi/fantasy worlds, I have a hard time recognizing any trace of Breath of Fire 3 (a game which opened by putting you in control of a baby dragon rampaging its way through a mine full of helpless laborers), Shadow Hearts 2 (a game in which your party included a luchadore wrestler vampire and you gained new powers by visiting a graveyard in your soul), Skies of Arcadia (in which you control a crew of sky pirates exploring an enormous fully 3D overworld in a customizable airship), or the PS2 Devil Summoner games (in which you played a detective who captured demons as if they were Pokemon and used them in excellent real-time battles to solve cases in Taishou-era Japan). It was that kind of crazy storytelling and world-building, combined with a willingness to experiment with gameplay, that made the good old JRPGs what they were, and after a glut of samey titles in the PS2 era killed off a lot of interest in the genre, especially internationally, most developers became increasingly afraid to fund that sort of bold and imaginative effort.
um, no.
Hell no
We have to much 'dark gritty' bullshit out there as is, we don't need to fuck up another genera with that cancer.
Hell no
We have to much 'dark gritty' bullshit out there as is, we don't need to fuck up another genera with that cancer.
I personally don't much care for JRPG's anymore because of
Story. The story's are always the same thing. Different sequence, names are changed, but it's always the same thing.
Story isn't even the most important part of a game for me anyway, but just once it'd be nice to not skip through all the overly long and boring cut scenes.
Voice acting and dialogue. Are both almost always awful. I can't take anything seriously or get truly invested in the world or characters because of it.
JRPG's (the kind I like/used to like anyway) have always excelled at gameplay, and as long as it's not turn based, they still usually do, despite all the afore mentioned problems.
Story. The story's are always the same thing. Different sequence, names are changed, but it's always the same thing.
Story isn't even the most important part of a game for me anyway, but just once it'd be nice to not skip through all the overly long and boring cut scenes.
Voice acting and dialogue. Are both almost always awful. I can't take anything seriously or get truly invested in the world or characters because of it.
JRPG's (the kind I like/used to like anyway) have always excelled at gameplay, and as long as it's not turn based, they still usually do, despite all the afore mentioned problems.
Gritty? is that the best you can come up with? I agree with Daystar Clarion, they have become like a great big soap opera and it needs to stop. Homogenizing the genre to be like western rpgs is not the answer.
I blame it on Final Fantasy X. It's still one of my favorite FFs but I think they're all trying to bank of its success. The game had the right mix of elements at the right time, just like FFVII. The same proverbial lightning does not strike twice.
FFT: War of the Lions has the political grit that you might be looking for. It's based on the War of the Roses just like ASOIAF, but it doesn't compromise the light-hearted aspects of the fantasy backdrop. As a result you have an incredible juxtaposition between Chocobos, job classes, and zodiac stones versus backstabbing, cross-class prejudice/injustice, and the orchestration of war. It keeps the aspects of fantasy that you would see in LoTR or Chronicles of Narnia but also has the seriousness found in ASOIAF.
JRPGs don't need to be like everything else, they just need to be good. FFIV through FFX, Legend of Dragoon, Xenogears, Star Ocean. They all had recipes for success, but then they tried to appeal to other people.
I blame it on Final Fantasy X. It's still one of my favorite FFs but I think they're all trying to bank of its success. The game had the right mix of elements at the right time, just like FFVII. The same proverbial lightning does not strike twice.
FFT: War of the Lions has the political grit that you might be looking for. It's based on the War of the Roses just like ASOIAF, but it doesn't compromise the light-hearted aspects of the fantasy backdrop. As a result you have an incredible juxtaposition between Chocobos, job classes, and zodiac stones versus backstabbing, cross-class prejudice/injustice, and the orchestration of war. It keeps the aspects of fantasy that you would see in LoTR or Chronicles of Narnia but also has the seriousness found in ASOIAF.
JRPGs don't need to be like everything else, they just need to be good. FFIV through FFX, Legend of Dragoon, Xenogears, Star Ocean. They all had recipes for success, but then they tried to appeal to other people.
No. Why does every single game in the world need to be "dark and edgy"? What is wrong with giving a character a scene where he doesn't want to cut himself and is actively enjoying his life? What is wrong with creating a fictional world and trying to convince us that living there wouldn't be a miserable experience? Sure some mature tones would be fine, but dark and edgy aren't the same thing as mature.
If anything, we need fewer gritty games period.
I'm not saying none, but we have such market saturation that a few gritty games won't be missed.
No, JRPGs were in the hate trend before things went to samey and brown because America hates different cultural aesthetics.
I'm not saying none, but we have such market saturation that a few gritty games won't be missed.
No, JRPGs were in the hate trend before things went to samey and brown because America hates different cultural aesthetics.