Because different is bad and must be destroyed!erttheking said:
...no, I don't like this whole "we need a homogenous experience!" thing, anyway.
All JRPG needs to be liked again is to be gritty.
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...no, I don't like this whole "we need a homogenous experience!" thing, anyway.
Gah, no. I get enough dark, gritty, political crap in other games and real life. I like my JRPGs to be about saving the world from some cliche evil, with the sappy dialogue along the lines of, "I'll NEVER give up!" and "She's special to me!" and other stuff like that.
Besides, didn't they try to do that with Final Fantasy XII and Tactics? And I still cannot, for the life of me, understand those plots and I felt very sad watching so many people die in Tactics.
Besides, didn't they try to do that with Final Fantasy XII and Tactics? And I still cannot, for the life of me, understand those plots and I felt very sad watching so many people die in Tactics.
I mean, there's nothing wrong with a dark story, but it's not a standard every piece of fiction in the world needs to meet.Zachary Amaranth said:
I dislike JRPGs the same reason I stopped liking anime. Roles are more important than characters in my opinion. you'll need the Moe Girl, put a tsundere here or there. Make him the chosen one (a problem in both east and west). Have the majority of the plot not understood by anyone so they say 'what' 'are you serious?' 'but how?' so more exposition can be had. But these are my gripes. as it's my personal taste.
I didn't know JRPGs were reviled.
I didn't know JRPGs were reviled.
For me it's the random encounters and turn based combat. Never did like turn based 4vX combat. The grittiness is irrelevant to me. For instance, I loved the Tales games, except ToS2 naturally and dragon quest. Why? NO RANDOM ENCOUNTERS, you see the enemies and run from them or charge at them.
As much as I do like gritty, grey on grey morality and political intrigue not everything needs to be this. I don't have a lot of experience with the genre because most JRPG's are console only and it not really my thing but I doubt changing it to be gritty is going to help them. I think it would just put the audience they already have off.
It's a very popular book and tv series (they renamed it Game of Thrones for the tv series) at the moment.
ASOIAF = A song of Ice and Fire.Res Plus said:
It's a very popular book and tv series (they renamed it Game of Thrones for the tv series) at the moment.
We don't need more 'gritty' we need LESS 'hey, lets kill brown people in a game with grey/brown/black/red and MC that come across as douche bags'.
I'd rather play a colorful JRPG with a questionable soap opera story then ANOTHER freaking CoD/BF/ect.
I hope to see another JRPG like Ni No Kuni.
I'd rather play a colorful JRPG with a questionable soap opera story then ANOTHER freaking CoD/BF/ect.
I hope to see another JRPG like Ni No Kuni.
Yeah...no.
So I started off with looking up the definition of gritty. So I'm guessing the demand is uncompromising realism. I let that sink in for a moment. Uncompromising realism in a JRPG...
No.
Just no.
I have no problem with realism in itself. It's a matter of personal taste, really. If you want a "realistic" game, okay. But no. Persona 4 was not in the strictest sense "real," but then if they did make it "real", they could've lost the true meaning behind what they were trying to do. It's supposed to be a psychological game, in terms of symbolism. Losing the fantasy aspect could very easily have cost it the symbolism that is a very strong part of it core structure.
Final Fantasy has the same thing, but it's not as strong there as it is for the Shin Megami Tensei series because it doesn't tie into the stories throughout the series as much. But it is there.
On the other hand, games such as Dragon Age and Mass Effect aren't gritty, either. Yeah, they're dark, but there are a number of JRPGs that are very dark as well. But these such games share a fantasy setting. Okay...Mass Effect is Sci-Fi, but it's still not "real." You have magic and biotics, respectively. You tell me how that's gritty.
The only thing that could strike a chord as very as gritty goes at this point is the art style, which is anime for JRPGs, but that in itself as largely cultural, as well as a matter of personal taste. In that case, asking JRPGs to be gritty is unreasonable, because you're asking the developers to surrender something cultural for the sake of popularity. If you or anyone else does not like, as others have put it, seeing "emo androgynous teenagers with bad fashion sense", then that's just your taste. It is not your job to slap others with your opinion.
As for why JRPGs are in some decline, I can only imagine that it's because JRPGs are more story-driven and that does not strike a chord with the more action-oriented Western audience. Mind you, that's just my guess, but between that and your vision of the need for "gritty," I'd say mine's more likely.
So I started off with looking up the definition of gritty. So I'm guessing the demand is uncompromising realism. I let that sink in for a moment. Uncompromising realism in a JRPG...
No.
Just no.
I have no problem with realism in itself. It's a matter of personal taste, really. If you want a "realistic" game, okay. But no. Persona 4 was not in the strictest sense "real," but then if they did make it "real", they could've lost the true meaning behind what they were trying to do. It's supposed to be a psychological game, in terms of symbolism. Losing the fantasy aspect could very easily have cost it the symbolism that is a very strong part of it core structure.
Final Fantasy has the same thing, but it's not as strong there as it is for the Shin Megami Tensei series because it doesn't tie into the stories throughout the series as much. But it is there.
On the other hand, games such as Dragon Age and Mass Effect aren't gritty, either. Yeah, they're dark, but there are a number of JRPGs that are very dark as well. But these such games share a fantasy setting. Okay...Mass Effect is Sci-Fi, but it's still not "real." You have magic and biotics, respectively. You tell me how that's gritty.
The only thing that could strike a chord as very as gritty goes at this point is the art style, which is anime for JRPGs, but that in itself as largely cultural, as well as a matter of personal taste. In that case, asking JRPGs to be gritty is unreasonable, because you're asking the developers to surrender something cultural for the sake of popularity. If you or anyone else does not like, as others have put it, seeing "emo androgynous teenagers with bad fashion sense", then that's just your taste. It is not your job to slap others with your opinion.
As for why JRPGs are in some decline, I can only imagine that it's because JRPGs are more story-driven and that does not strike a chord with the more action-oriented Western audience. Mind you, that's just my guess, but between that and your vision of the need for "gritty," I'd say mine's more likely.
Res Plus said:
A Dance with Dragons is the fifth book, not the second. If you're reading that without having read books 2-4 (A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, and A Feast for Crows) it will get confusing.
On one hand I disagree with the OP, not everything needs to be gritty. On the other hand I can see where he is coming from. I just started tales of graces F and that game is so lifelessly saccharine that I think next time some starts prattling about the power of friendship I'm going to use the disc as a sporting clay.
While I'm not a large fan of FF13, I'd rather play that, than play GTA4. Largely because I dislike GTA as a whole. :xFFP2 said:Persona 4 would totally be the greatest game EVER if the enemies were terrorists, every second word was a swear and if it was all dipped in lovely, gritty grey and brown!Exius Xavarus said:
Honestly, I think JRPGs are the only genre not to have a really brown and "gritty" game.
OP: Look at a pic of The Gapra Whitewood from FF13 and compare that to a "gritty" game... for example GTA4. I know which game I'd rather play.
Hah, yes that kind of thing is very grating. It really is a matter of touching upon those kinds of themes without being brainless about it.major_chaos said:
That's the thing, back during the PSX era, they did everything right but everything shortly after that was slow long crawl to mediocrity whereas WRPGs have been prospering from being grittier than usual.Gregory McMillan said:
You mention ASOIAF and say that most WRPGs base their stuff off of it, but having actually read the books I'm calling bull on that. There might be an occasional political problem in some WRPGs but that hardly means it's taking from Martin. And being "Gritty" doesn't always make it better or even half way mature. Most people liked Skyrim or the Fallouts because they were fun. There was "grit" to it I suppose, but the most fun people have in these games are just doing interesting things, like fighting a dragon, or when apparently killing a chicken the first town you get to, or breaking out of jail, or sneaking around in your underwear to kill unsuspecting innocent people. You might think the JRPG "needs" to be edgy or something, but then you get what isn't a JRPG, and that defeats the point. That's like saying Mario would be so much better if he were in a military backdrop and guns and his name wasn't Mario.
Hey wow it's like they were reading this thread. How timely! http://kotaku.com/5984618/ten-modern-jrpgs-worth-playing
1. Define "JRPG" to me that means every RPG made in the country of japan. Your statements make no sense in regard to that entire category.
2. No. For example, I've heard people upset with recent Final Fantasy games because they were unfun not because they had bad stories. Gritty is not going to solve things there are more problems then thematics.
3. No Silver Bullets. No one thing is going to solve all of your problems... ever. Don't suggest that one simple change is going to solve all your woes.
2. No. For example, I've heard people upset with recent Final Fantasy games because they were unfun not because they had bad stories. Gritty is not going to solve things there are more problems then thematics.
3. No Silver Bullets. No one thing is going to solve all of your problems... ever. Don't suggest that one simple change is going to solve all your woes.
Really, as people have already pointed out, your words are just what you think would make you like JRPGs. From what I have read on this first page of comments and from experience in the real world and vast amounts of internet surfing, JRPGs still get a lot of love and ones that become loved are still being made.gyrobot said:
Every game doesn't have to become gritty and adult to be liked.
Seriously, statements like this make me sick.gyrobot said:
First, you need to define who, because just saying "people" is an encompassing word that when used without a qualifier, usually means the speaker is saying "everyone". All you have to do is add the word "some" in front of "people", and maybe go on to say the reasons you, like "some people", don't like JRPGs.
Second, that second sentence is blatantly loaded and one-sided, and because of that, it is wrong. There is no one attitude towards the fantasy genre(Unless you think your attitude/view is the only one. Then I have to ask, why did you even make such a thread if you think such a thing?)
I also ask, what current standards? But of course I'm guessing you are referring to your standards that relate to your attitude on the fantasy genre.
There is no one true mold or even an evolving standard mold to making JRPGs/RPGs, because most JRPGs/RPGs do things different with each game. Let the creators create what they want to make, let the people that like such things have what they like. You have your games, and other people have their games. Everything doesn't have to be the same, because the same thing day in and day out is boring, standards and molds are boring.
I for one don't watch one type of show forever, read only one type of book, or play only one type of game. I watch, read, and play many types. I would say to you need to broaden your horizons and find enjoyment in new ways of doing things, and if you don't want to do that, don't try and force your likes on other groups to change things to your liking.
Finally, I will add that your last statement is incredibly wrong. Childishness isn't a disease, it is just an aspect in some games, and many people like games that aren't serious. Try using your statement compared to other forms of media. What you said is like saying that we need to stop making children's books, movies, shows, etc, because the world needs to just grow up.
Even though some childishness in some games is that way because children play them, adult gamers still like to play them like that too, just as adult readers/viewers still like to read/watch things that are geared towards children.
Life as an adult doesn't all have to be responsibility, blood, guts, sex, hardship, and tears. It can also be whimsical, free, cute, cuddly, heartwarming, and laugh inducing happiness.