Alpha, beta and you.

[Karoshi]

I hate these alpha/beta categories. From browsing 4chan, these definitions mean two things:

Beta: Passive-aggressive asshole. He hates everyone, but doesn't speak it out loud. Also, he is never the one to blame. It always someone else's fault.

Alpha: Aggressive asshole. The scent of testorone surrounds him like heavenly ambrosia. He swaggers, insults people and everyone likes him.

It's complete bullshit, at least in the way that it presented.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

Beta males are about as attractive to women as a shit covered lamprey. They live in their parents basements. Only ever invited to parties as a cruel joke.

Are you sure you don't mean Omegas? They are the "working class" so to speak.

Honestly I think people are generally too complex to be put in such neat little packages. I am an omega in many ways. I am loyal, kind, and generally just do what I am told. However, if I see someone wronged, a mistake being made, I am not afraid to tell someone above me what they are doing wrong. That a Beta. I also have manipulated people when I see an opportunity to get ahead in life, never in a way that could seriously hurt them, but still manipulation never-the-less. That could be considered Alpha.

So then what the hell am I and I'm only 26. I have only fresh experience and still at times find myself stumbling in the dark. What of the people who are in their mid 30s or 40s? I would imagine they would be even more split up.


Look there is just humans. Humans who live their lives based on what life has done to them. I doubt you'll find someone who has only experienced one type.

 

[Rastien]

Sweet i'm glad society has found another box to caterogise my failings into! horrah

 

[blackrave]

Alpha,Beta,Delta,Zeta,Omega, WHO CARES?
Screw the mainstream categorization, I'm going to be !male

!males can:
shatter concrete only by peeing on it
make women horny by mere yawning
use farts as flashbangs
cure any disease and make breasts/penis bigger in process
tame polar bears
use own hair as catalyst for cold fusion
fly
shoot concentrated photon beams from eyes

Try to beat that you pesky Alphas

 

[MetalMagpie]

And there I was thinking this was going to be a thread about alpha/beta releases of video games.

Simple rule: If you think you've found a straight-forward model/explanation for why people are attracted to each other (and/or enter into relationships) you are wrong. It does not exist and it will never exist. Stop worrying about it and go meet some girls.

Personally, I suspect the whole alpha/beta male idea is just another way for guys who are unlucky in love to excuse themselves from trying. It's similar to the whole "girls only date assholes" idea. It may be comforting for someone to decide they're too much of a "nice guy" or a "beta male" (or that they're always stuck in the "friend zone"), but I don't think it's a healthy way to think.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

I actually used to do some of that "alpha" stuff - going to the gym, buying expensive clothes, earning more money than I needed. That was before I realized I didn't want to, and before I realized that doing stuff you don't want to do just because people give it a label like "alpha", isn't really "alpha" at all.

My theory is the "alpha" label serves a useful function in society, because those who are labelled "beta" aren't actually useful to the "alphas" like they passive creatures are - they would be more useful if they bumped up their consumerism, started frequenting the gym and started dating to produce babies sooner. That would mean that the biggest touters of the "alpha male" label would be sales clerks, gym owners and guys trying to find their sisters a husband. Sounds about right!

 

[Phasmal]

Dudes who buy into that stuff are lame.

And there I was thinking this was going to be a thread about alpha/beta releases of video games.

Simple rule: If you think you've found a straight-forward model/explanation for why people are attracted to each other (and/or enter into relationships) you are wrong. It does not exist and it will never exist. Stop worrying about it and go meet some girls.

Personally, I suspect the whole alpha/beta male idea is just another way for guys who are unlucky in love to excuse themselves from trying. It's similar to the whole "girls only date assholes" idea. It may be comforting for someone to decide they're too much of a "nice guy" or a "beta male" (or that they're always stuck in the "friend zone"), but I don't think it's a healthy way to think.

Also that.
It's so obviously not true.
Go out on the street and you will see all kinds of people, partnered up. If only a certain kind of men got any booty, our population would not be as it is.

 

[Evil Smurf]

I thought this thread was about the Greek language, which I can read, write and speak. Internet, I am disappoint

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

I'm not a letter I'm a honey badger.

Spoiler: first form

Spoiler: super saiyan badger

 

[Mr F.]

Load of old bullshit.

Anyone who believes that you can typify humanity on a binary scale is a fucking moron. There are no alpha males, there are no beta males, there are just people. Where exactly do transgendered people fall into the alpha/beta scale? Those with male organs who are in reality female? Or perhaps the reverse?

Like I said above, load of bullshit.

Successful people sometimes like to state that they are successful because they are "Born" better than everyone else. That they are superior to everyone else. It makes it easier for them to treat everyone else like shit. And people who are unsuccessful like to blame this on things other than their own life choices. If you blame something out of your control it is no longer your fault that this thing is the case.

I am not an alpha. I am not a beta. I am just a dude.

Now, if you break it down within social circles perhaps this phenomena can exist. I am a nerd. A geek. A gamer. I have a very small social circle inhabitted almost purely by those of a similar disposition to myself. However, I am also experienced in the ways of life (Being older than most of my friends due to life choices making me get to Uni late) and, as a result, sometimes I am the leader of our little social circle. I am the only one with a partner, the only one to have ever had sex, you get the whole idea. I would fall into the category of alpha within that social context.

Yet within my other circles that is far from the case. I am back to being the geek that I am, I am back to being beneath others due to not clubbing or drinking heavily. There is a very clear leader of the pack in the other social circle I inhabit, he is the leader of that group, without a doubt.

Now, am I am alpha leading betas? A beta leading betas due to the presence of another alpha? Or am I just someone who talks a lot who is sometimes looked up to cause of my life experience? That is a much, much harder question to answer.

If you break things down even further and begin talking about identity and the theories of multiple identities (Talking Goffman and the like) then you are merely playing a part within any setting, perhaps the part you are playing is of the beta for whatever reason or the alpha for whatever reason. It is not who you are, just a part that you play. Although it is argued that all of the parts combined makes up who you are...

The point I am making is along with the idea being retarded, patently so, and not being applicable to queer folk or transgender folk, it does not question the idea that you are playing different roles in different situations. Identity is a fuck of a lot more complex than "Men are men, they are either Alphas or Betas and that is life. Because they are men." and trying to break it down into categories is just dumb. There is no race. There is no fixed point of gender. There are no alphas and there are no betas. All of these things are the creation of society. Drop them and they disappear.

Fuck me I overthought that. I am bored and should be working. Just did a module on Identity and it is sorta burned into my brain.

 

[lunavixen]

snip

I can tell you it's not just men, women go through this as well, though men seem to get the brunt of it. It's all gender identification and social labelling, it's unfortunate and stupid process TBH.

 

[Thyunda]

It's not so much that alpha-males WILL be more successful and WILL be more dominant, it's that they strive to be.

If you stick with the aforementioned Alpha-Beta-Omega setup, you'll find examples of each in every little community.

The linked blog claims Alpha is the best one to be. Well it's not. The Alpha will try to be on top regardless of whether they're best suited for the position. You'll often find these people taking offence easily, acting obnoxious to keep all eyes on them, resorting to loud, vocal intimidation and living in a state of "it's my life I'll do whatever I want and fuck you if you don't like it."

On the plus side, Alphas are ambitious, proud and surprisingly loyal. An Alpha with ability is a force to be reckoned with, even if they'll often glaze over their own shortcomings in order to get where they want to be as fast as possible.

And since you can't have a hierarchy without community, this is where the Beta comes into it. The Beta male ISN'T some boring, unattractive sociopath. The Beta simply doesn't care overly much either way. Where the Alpha won't be satisfied unless he's in control of everything, the Beta is pretty content to let somebody else take all the responsibility while he lives comfortably and modestly. This COULD be seen as being boring, but a Beta has just as much thought for other people as he does for himself, though he might not be inclined to help you out of a mess if you got yourself into it doing something stupid. It's simply not his problem.

The Omega, however, doesn't really get that choice. Omegas are 'designed' to 'serve'. The Omega is the guy who gets called at stupid hours of the morning to guide his idiot Alpha home. Why? Because he will. The Omega holds up the community from the bottom, and is only really happy when everybody else is. This is both a positive and a negative - Omegas could be seen as naive and easily manipulated, or they might be seen as caring and loyal.




Of course there's much more to each than that, that's just a very simple summary. You could say "You can't categorise people like that." Well, you kind of can. Just stop seeing it as one on top of the other. I would say the Escapist has a fair balance of each, despite us all being gamers and part of a culture notorious for being shut-ins.

Essentially, you're an Alpha if you feel being on top is the most important. This can be anything from a friendly football game to playing Halo to running a business. If you HAVE to be the MVP in every team game you play, you're probably an Alpha.

If you're not arsed who wins or loses, and care more about enjoying the time you've spent playing with your pals, you're likely a Beta.

And if you find yourself covering for everybody else's mistakes, without feeling the need to claim the kills all for yourself, then you fit neatly into Omega.

And I re-iterate. Being an Omega does not make you inferior to either, nor does being a Beta. An Omega is as capable of, say, sleeping around, as an Alpha is, despite the latter being more associated with it. Women might find his caring nature attractive, and come to him in times of need, and the opportunistic Omega might well take advantage. All three groups are very capable of the things you'd normally associate with the others, they just see it differently.

Again. This is not a 'success spectrum'. It's merely labelling the way your view on society is set up.

CAPTCHA: WHO AM I

Baha. Fitting.

 

[MammothBlade]

The whole Alpha/Beta/Omega thing is just a gross oversimplification. It's a silly, lazy explanation for something which is a LOT more complex. Guess what, there are so many different personality traits and types of people and you can't neatly sum them up in 3 general types from best to last.
It creates expectations to conform to your allocated label or try to punch above it, making guys more dickish and stupid than they actually are to try and seem hard or attractive.

What do I think? I think that there are categories within the alpha-beta spectrum. There are levels, more than simply alpha and beta. Some are less beta than others but more alpha than others, and there are several places in between the ultimate alpha male and the 'beta phaggot'. You and I are almost certainly somewhere in between.


We can all improve ourselves, but if you're not good looking and have social interaction made difficult by a poor childhood and bad experiences, then you will probably never be a full on alpha male to the highest degree; an alpha plus. I probably won't. I don't have enough drive and ambition, and although I have some cool hobbies and shit, (which do NOT involve pony stuff, which is something I keep to myself on the internet),I'm not the most interesting man in the world.


http://alphareporting.wordpress.com/

^here we have omega males, (WOW playing 4chan basement dwelling neckbeards), up to beta minus, beta plus, alpha minus and alpha plus.

Why believe in this alpha-beta spectrum at all?

The only thing that blog did well was demonstrate how easy it is to pull labels out of one's arse and make gullible insecure readers eat that shit up wholesale. And if you object to said labelling, your opinion is invalid and you are just bitter about your inferior status.
It goes to show that these sorts of simplistic narratives can control just how people perceive themselves and others and shut down all conscious thought about alternative explanations.

^typical beta response.


just kidding. But I think the whole idea that objecting to this theory makes you open to "just [being] bitter about your inferior status", is valid in why this concept may be more widely accepted or at least not as disregarded as it otherwise might be, but that doesn't change whether it is ultimately true or not.


I think alpha is ultimately just a word for a socially (pack leader), and financially (resources), successful man. The person that wrote this simply identifies enjoying computer games and stuff like that to be the opposite, which isn't really true.

What's that? I'll beta up your ass!

It assigns an unfavourable status to anyone who isn't considered an "alpha male", causing guys who are otherwise happy about their lives to think that they need to become something they're not to get all the girls. Doesn't work that way.

Of course this is more widely accepted because it offers a simple explanation and a shutdown at the same.

A:"This is bullshit!"

B:"Shut up you beta loser!"

 

[MammothBlade]

Snip

That makes about as much sense as blood type personality theory. There are men who are altruistic and generous towards others yet also dominant leaders. And indeed plenty of guys who wouldn't fit into those arbitrary categories. Society isn't that simple, and we should stop pretending it is.

 

[Loonyyy]

If you believe this stuff, you're falling for a trap set by stupid people.

Funnily enough, the "Alpha Wolf" was recently disproved by science. The concept only applied to wolves in captivity, and wolves in the wild did not operate in at all a similar manner. So they've got a flawed premise for one.

But 2, it's an oversimplification, because again, it's made by stupid people.

If you want to succeed at anything, you have to attempt it, and have the talent to succeed. The first is confidence, and the second varies wildly from task to task. When people say "Alpha" and point to the big dumb aggressive types, they fail to understand that these people aren't often able to work in teams, nor are they interested in higher education. So the "Alpha" isn't a successful thing, it's an oversimplification of a stupid idea.

Like most things men do, the concept comes down to women. Here's the thing: Men have this crazy idea that women date jerks. This is false. Women aren't interested in being constantly abused-that's crazy. Women aren't crazy, as funny as it is to say "Bitches be crazy". If you think this, I'd seriously suggest you reevaluate your interest in them, because you kinda hate them. Women date people who: 1) Interact with them. 2) Are appealing.

Media's told us for a long time about wingmanning and distracting the ugly chicks, and grading women on scales etc. What a lot of guys refuse to see is that women rate you too. And if you're not appealing, you're going to have less success at what you're doing. So if you're an asshole, and you dress like a slob, and you're overweight, it's going to be harder to get a date. And you don't blame the jerks, or the women. It's on you how you present. You're not a "beta". And the natural athletes and the gym-freaks who you see with girlfriends aren't alphas. Go outside. There's plenty of people, and it's all a wonderful mix-and-match of who gets who.

Narcissistic jerks may interact with women, and may tend to be obsessed with themselves enough to keep in shape, but it's not because they're jerks that some of them are successful. Also-those aggressive types? They're not exactly going to be accurate reporters of their success, are they?

You want to see who your big alpha is?

Spoiler

A loud obnoxious jackoff who puts off most anyone who would be interested in him, and who's fond of telling tales of his sexploits which are at best, of dubious veracity.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Alpha males can attract women easily, and are generally attractive. They're successful, or at least living semi-decently. Centre of attention, life of the party, all that.

Beta males are about as attractive to women as a shit covered lamprey. They live in their parents basements. Only ever invited to parties as a cruel joke.

... oh. I thought this was going to be a thread about joining a test group for a game during the Alpha test or the Beta test. IE, get in early, when the game is still unfinished and buggy, or get in later, when the game is nearly done, but you can have less effect on the final product.

As for the actual topic... isn't this a thing from Deus Ex: Human Revolution?

http://alphareporting.wordpress.com/
^here we have omega males, (WOW playing 4chan basement dwelling neckbeards), up to beta minus, beta plus, alpha minus and alpha plus.

Yeah. My personality tester has Alpha, Beta, and Omega scores. For men and women, mind. The Alpha's like aggression, the Betas like appeasement, and the Omegas are... something? I don't remember it all that well. And a given person might be any combination of the three (or that one fucker who was all three).

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

When in school the Alpha/Beta thing was in action, the best solution was to to walk up to the Mr Alpha, and punch him in his fuckity little face.

That always sorts shit out.

 

[Heronblade]

Uh, I don't know where the definition of those categories came from, but that is definitely not the usual hierarchy.

Within a group of status oriented animals, such as wolves or horses, there are three main personality types when it comes to leadership (plenty of subcategories within those, but lets leave that alone) Note: these categories are not limited to males.

-Alphas are born leaders (whether or not they are actually good at the job). They constantly strive to be at the top and don't tend to tolerate direct competition. The males in this category tend to attempt to hog all the females, they may or may not be successful depending on the others in their pack/herd/whatever.

-Betas would be the "normal" category. These would be those who are simply content to let the alphas duke it out for the limelight.

-Omegas are a lot closer to the description you had for betas. These tend to be undesirable individuals that naturally respond to authority with fear and/or unthinking obedience.

The above categories mainly apply to simpler life forms, it becomes a significantly more complex affair when trying to apply it to humanity.

Humans still have similar categories when it comes to leadership roles, but they are quite flexible, and do not necessarily define our thinking in other aspects of life. They also do not define our value or desirability. There are plenty of both "loser" alphas, and "winner" omegas

 

[MammothBlade]

It's total bullshit.

Are all women the same, so males will attract them if they tick boxes X, Y and Z and won't if they don't? No.

Is how well a male attracting identical women the best yardstick for measuring his worth? No.

Do all men want to attract these identical women? No.

Yes, some people are much more successful than others. Take Bill Gates, computer industry dominating zillionaire. I daresay he'd fit the definition of being a beta male, except for his massive amounts of success.

Ya know, while the bit about women has some merit, I also doubt you'll have an easy time finding a woman who is attracted to an obese guy sporting the largest neckbeard known to man. So if you wanted to, you could label that guy a beta.

OT: I've laughed at plenty of beta as fuck/alpha as fuck jokes. I think you're taking the whole thing too seriously. Of course you can't split an entire gender into two groups, and of course most people out there simply don't fit the alpha nor beta stereotype.

I don't really care anyway, you can all sort people into alphas and betas and I'll just be myself. I suggest the rest of you do that too, the world would probably be a better place.

There are two types of people, bros and hos.

I'm a ho.

 

[Thyunda]

Snip

That makes about as much sense as blood type personality theory. There are men who are altruistic and generous towards others yet also dominant leaders. And indeed plenty of guys who wouldn't fit into those arbitrary categories. Society isn't that simple, and we should stop pretending it is.

Did you miss the part where I said each type was equally capable of doing things commonly attributed to the others? I get that you want to call us all unique little snowflakes, but at least try harder than that. A generous, altruistic leader is an Omega. Leadership is a skill like any other and has very little to do with how you see things. Some people are natural leaders. Some people aren't. An Alpha who ISN'T a natural leader won't be capable of leadership merely by virtue of having an Alpha mindset.

You ought to read more and presume less.


EDIT: And Blood Type personality theory allocates you a personality based on your blood type. These three classes are names for your personality types. There is no similarity.

And if you don't believe you can categorise personalities, then you need to get out more. Everybody fits into a category. Society just wants us to feel like we're not being labelled.