Alternative medicine...
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Aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid its close, but its not the same thing as salicylic acid. To quote wikipedia cause I can't find my lab manual "In addition to being a compound that is chemically similar to but not identical to the active component of aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid)". So your right but that little group induces a slightly different reaction, but the net result is largely the same.BRex21 said:
Chinese "Medicine" = PLACEBO. I have not seen any proof, not anecdotal evidence (which any person interested in reason based science can tell you does not count) that traditional Chinese remedies work.
It is essentially the same thing as homeopathy, but developed in the East, not the West. I am naturally suspicious of anything that has been around for "hundreds of years" as people were fucking retarded back then (they let blood as a solution to basically everything in the West, which is part of the reason homeopathy worked better back then, cause it was something that wasn't actively harmful)
The reason Chinese medicine works is because of the placebo effect. Simple.
Also, I want to take a minute to say that lots of Chinese run tests that have faked results for things like acupuncture.
It is essentially the same thing as homeopathy, but developed in the East, not the West. I am naturally suspicious of anything that has been around for "hundreds of years" as people were fucking retarded back then (they let blood as a solution to basically everything in the West, which is part of the reason homeopathy worked better back then, cause it was something that wasn't actively harmful)
The reason Chinese medicine works is because of the placebo effect. Simple.
Also, I want to take a minute to say that lots of Chinese run tests that have faked results for things like acupuncture.
People seem to be attributing certain plants (Which contain active ingredients) with proof of alternative medicine. Now heres a run down of the 'alternative' treatments i can think of off the top of my head. Acupunture; needles don't have active ingredients, Homeopathy; solutions diluted hundreds of times so none of the active ingredient exists, crystals also lack active ingredients unless cold and hard are now chemical properties that affect the body beyond making your sensory nerves go "hey this is cold and hard". I could get angry all day at how daft people can be with evidenceless tripe but...whatever.
Chinese traditional medicine has some grounding in reality, but that is NOT because of energy fields of Chi. Acupuncture is not interacting with your chi flow, because there is no such thing as chi.
Compare this to Indian traditional medicine, which is usually doing strange things like nasal flossing, swallowing 6 feet of gauze and then vomiting it up, cutting, and many things involving cow urine. "Do this for two weeks and your will be cured!" What human can do these things for two weeks? Very few, and that failure is attributed to the failure of the individual, rather then the methodology.
The big red flag for all alternative uses of medicine is energy. There are no auras, good energy, bad energy-- the average person doesn't understand what the word energy means, so is easily fooled into believing what ever nonsense the "healer" is out to promote. Usually for profit.
Compare this to Indian traditional medicine, which is usually doing strange things like nasal flossing, swallowing 6 feet of gauze and then vomiting it up, cutting, and many things involving cow urine. "Do this for two weeks and your will be cured!" What human can do these things for two weeks? Very few, and that failure is attributed to the failure of the individual, rather then the methodology.
The big red flag for all alternative uses of medicine is energy. There are no auras, good energy, bad energy-- the average person doesn't understand what the word energy means, so is easily fooled into believing what ever nonsense the "healer" is out to promote. Usually for profit.
At the end of the day, 'traditional' remedies became traditional remedies because they were useful to some extent or another. I'd never advocate using it for some serious ailment for which an actual medical solution exists, but if you've got a cough or cold then you might as well take whatever makes you feel better about it.SckizoBoy said:
Alternative medicine is called alternative because it either hasn't been proved to work,
or has been proved not to work.
You know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work?
Medicine.
(Yes this should be repeated every 2 pages, as the video shoots down the argument that medical companies are just suppressing these medicines. Case in point: Aspirin)
or has been proved not to work.
You know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work?
Medicine.
(Yes this should be repeated every 2 pages, as the video shoots down the argument that medical companies are just suppressing these medicines. Case in point: Aspirin)
Credentials: I'm a pharmacology student working on my masters degree.
Alternative medicine is bullshit. Homeopathy is a scam, chi points don't exist, hypnotism is a placebo etc
Herbal medicine has some thruth* to it but you can always get better results with real medicine since almost all tribal medicine and herbal stuff has been tested (those that haven´t been tested are being tested RIGHT NOW, it's one way to discover new drugs and the problem is we've almost exhausted that resource so we are turning towards the sea more and more for a place to locate new cemicals that can be used for drugs) to see if it really works and then the active ingreadients identified. When taking a herbal medicine over a real drug you don't get an exact dosage, the drug won't be absorbed as easily by the body and there will be impurities in it.
*About 30% of modern medicine have originated in plants, animals or fungi. These chemicals are now either extracted from the plant and purified, synthesised in a lab, used to give us an idea for a chemical that will be synthesised or for protein drugs produced in gene-modified bacteria.
If anyone has any question I'll be more then happy to answer them.
Alternative medicine is bullshit. Homeopathy is a scam, chi points don't exist, hypnotism is a placebo etc
Herbal medicine has some thruth* to it but you can always get better results with real medicine since almost all tribal medicine and herbal stuff has been tested (those that haven´t been tested are being tested RIGHT NOW, it's one way to discover new drugs and the problem is we've almost exhausted that resource so we are turning towards the sea more and more for a place to locate new cemicals that can be used for drugs) to see if it really works and then the active ingreadients identified. When taking a herbal medicine over a real drug you don't get an exact dosage, the drug won't be absorbed as easily by the body and there will be impurities in it.
*About 30% of modern medicine have originated in plants, animals or fungi. These chemicals are now either extracted from the plant and purified, synthesised in a lab, used to give us an idea for a chemical that will be synthesised or for protein drugs produced in gene-modified bacteria.
If anyone has any question I'll be more then happy to answer them.
It's the internet. You are essentially anonymous here. Will you put some proof out here, or continue to skip around it? Modern medicine does seem to work, and since it does, I really don't mind what the put in it. After all, most antivenoms are derived from the venom itself.PhantomEcho said:
its all nonsense. If there was anything in it (real) medical group would be using it
as said by Dara Obrian
"ooh herbal medicine has been round for 1000s of years, and indeed it has... But then we tested it all and the stuff that actually worked became medicine!"
as said by Dara Obrian
"ooh herbal medicine has been round for 1000s of years, and indeed it has... But then we tested it all and the stuff that actually worked became medicine!"
ALternative medicine, by definition, is not proven to work or proven not to work.
Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proven to work?
Medicine.
Now, I'm not saying that all alternative medicines are placebos. Some of them may certainly contain chemicals that help with recovering from diseases. Such as willow-bark for example. But in most of the cases, the chemicals are probably present in too low amounts to have a significant effect, or they're not present at all.
Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proven to work?
Medicine.
Now, I'm not saying that all alternative medicines are placebos. Some of them may certainly contain chemicals that help with recovering from diseases. Such as willow-bark for example. But in most of the cases, the chemicals are probably present in too low amounts to have a significant effect, or they're not present at all.
what in the name of all that's holy makes you think that all modern medicine was developed in europe?jimahaff said:
Transplant surgery as we know it took off in africa, insulin therapy came from canada, surgery started out in the middle east. The reason alternative medicine is disregarded by most of the medical community isn't because it's asian/african/whatever, it's because there is are no studies demonstrating any effectiveness above placebo level.
You DO realise the ONLY difference between alternative medicine and medicine is one has been tested and proved to work. "HORRIBLE DRUGS". Hmmm i remember taking a "horrible" drug derrived from the bark of a willow tree...masperin? Hasperin? AH asperin!Powereaver said:
Modern medicine tests MANY things carefully.
If you are suggesting a medicinal testing facility sees a potential natural cure that can be tested and adapted into medicine and ignores it for petty reasons you are saying they dont like money. Hundreds and hundres and hundreds of tests have been done on alternate medicine and its a common cry from those who love it that "MODERN SCIENCE DOESNT EVEN BOTHER TESTING IT!". They do. Trust me, read Ben Goldacres bad science. They test them to bits. And they dont work. Or if they do work better than nothing, thats useless anyway. Better than nothing is meaningless, it has to be better than the best working alternative.
Good advice actually. A LOT of alternative medicine is a complete crock and trying it for cancer WILL KILL YOU. Homeopathy for example is just stupid hogwash. And PFFFFF at we dont understand the body. Are you joking? Is that a joke? I hope so. Maybe you dont understand it, but i wasnt accepted to study biomedical science at university because no one understand this mysterious "biology". We know plenty, we know LOADS, i can tell you in insane detail how your heart beats and why it beats and why it speeds up and slows down. And people have tested alternative medicine. If it works it becomes medicine. If it doesnt it stays alternative medicine, IE hasnt been proven to work or has been proven not to work.elcher said:
Also many "modern" treatments for heart disease were developed in China by Chinese doctors.
But as to the general point. Most alternative medicine's perceived effectiveness is likely just the placebo effect. Granted, their are some alternative medicine treatments that do likely have some actual active effectiveness in treating symptoms or the root of various illness, granted, it is likely staggeringly few in comparison to "modern" medicine.
But I would also like to note that just because it is the placebo effect doesn't mean it is not worth while. If it fixes the problem, who cares if its just the placebo effect. Hell, most medical practitioners agree that the placebo effect has a place in medicine. If you can make the body cure itself with a placebo, why make someone take something that can have potential negative side effects. Of course, once you start to deal with illness that no amount of placebo could ever hope to counteract, cancer and heart disease and such, it should be criminal for someone to heavily recommend, or, for the love of all that's decent, FORCE someone to take medicine that's likely ineffective over sometimes-life-saving "modern" medical treatments.
Also, to remind myself this is the internet and this conversation shouldn't be taken so seriously.
"Penis."
Tee hee.
edit: Stupid forum, I was meaning to reply to "Toby Kitching" with my first line.
But as to the general point. Most alternative medicine's perceived effectiveness is likely just the placebo effect. Granted, their are some alternative medicine treatments that do likely have some actual active effectiveness in treating symptoms or the root of various illness, granted, it is likely staggeringly few in comparison to "modern" medicine.
But I would also like to note that just because it is the placebo effect doesn't mean it is not worth while. If it fixes the problem, who cares if its just the placebo effect. Hell, most medical practitioners agree that the placebo effect has a place in medicine. If you can make the body cure itself with a placebo, why make someone take something that can have potential negative side effects. Of course, once you start to deal with illness that no amount of placebo could ever hope to counteract, cancer and heart disease and such, it should be criminal for someone to heavily recommend, or, for the love of all that's decent, FORCE someone to take medicine that's likely ineffective over sometimes-life-saving "modern" medical treatments.
Also, to remind myself this is the internet and this conversation shouldn't be taken so seriously.
"Penis."
Tee hee.
edit: Stupid forum, I was meaning to reply to "Toby Kitching" with my first line.
Alot of alternate medicine may just be a placebo effect, but what's so wrong with that? If it helps you because it actually does something, or because of mind over matter, you feel better regardless.
So yea, I'm all for homeopathy, if only because I know it'll make me feel better even if it is a load of bollocks. As long as I know it isn't harmfull, and there isn't any actual medicine that we know can fix whatever's bothering me, then why not trick yourself into feeling a little better?
So yea, I'm all for homeopathy, if only because I know it'll make me feel better even if it is a load of bollocks. As long as I know it isn't harmfull, and there isn't any actual medicine that we know can fix whatever's bothering me, then why not trick yourself into feeling a little better?
Some is quackery some is accidentally stumbling onto something with a medical basis.
The rest can just be explained away by the placebo effect or our lack of knowledge in all the bodies mechanisms.
Personally if Im going ot take something to make me better Id rather go for the proper medicine.
The rest can just be explained away by the placebo effect or our lack of knowledge in all the bodies mechanisms.
Personally if Im going ot take something to make me better Id rather go for the proper medicine.
"By definition, alternative medicine is medicine that has not been proved to work, or has been proved not to work."
I mean, c'mon guys, when I saw the title, this is exactly the kind of reply I looked for. >_>
EDIT: Lololol, while only looking for quotes of TheVoodooFrog, I didn't see the masses of replies along this same line anyway. My bad, guys. :$
As for you, TheVoodoo Frog,
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~rkhosla/cookie.jpg
Back OT: As others have said, some of it really is legitimate and can truly help you. But "Alternative Medicine" is such a huge umbrella of different methods for almost every affliction known to man, that you must keep in mind just how much bs is amongst the small amount of stuff that actually works.
Really, though... Just find what works for you.
As far as I can tell... No one has quoted you yet.TheVoodooFrog said:
I mean, c'mon guys, when I saw the title, this is exactly the kind of reply I looked for. >_>
EDIT: Lololol, while only looking for quotes of TheVoodooFrog, I didn't see the masses of replies along this same line anyway. My bad, guys. :$
As for you, TheVoodoo Frog,
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~rkhosla/cookie.jpg
Back OT: As others have said, some of it really is legitimate and can truly help you. But "Alternative Medicine" is such a huge umbrella of different methods for almost every affliction known to man, that you must keep in mind just how much bs is amongst the small amount of stuff that actually works.
Really, though... Just find what works for you.
Ninja'd.TheVoodooFrog said:
Seriously tho. let's look at one 'alternative medicine'.
Willow bark tea. Sounds kinda dopey, sounds all hippy, but yes, this works as a pain reliever. Why?
The active ingrediant in willow bark tea is salicylic acid, which is the main component of aspirin.
The idea here is that stuff that works should be tested rigorously. Sometimes the claims are true, but often the claims aren't scientific but based on anecdote.
I'm not concerned if you feel better, I want to know if the treatment is better than a placebo and by how much.