Am I A Terrible Person For Not Caring?

Ten Foot Bunny

I'm more of a dishwasher girl
Mar 19, 2014
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The_Kodu said:
Snip, though it deserves to be read in full...
First off, that wasn't at all confrontational. You made a great point that was argued with respect and rationality. It was something I hadn't taken into consideration until you brought it up. GG, sir!

I totally agree with you on a lot of that. Your argument in favor of self-improvement for the purpose of obtaining a goal is not only admirable, but a quality trait. In my past, I taught myself HTML, CSS, and RSS feeds so I could maintain a website for my brother's podcast (he genuinely didn't have the time to study that himself and so I happily did it). I also over-learned every concept I was exposed to in school not only so I could improve my effectiveness as a tutor, but because I had an unquenchable thirst for that knowledge and didn't believe in half-assing it. That's why I graduated with a 4.0 and did an honors thesis so I could earn summa.

That said, by nature, different concepts require different amounts of time and dedication to master. As I said in my previous post, I took classes in 3D modeling (six, to be exact) while pursuing my first degree, and also took two classes in video game design. Neither of those came easily to me despite my dedication to learn. That definitely doesn't mean I couldn't improve with more study and practice. In fact, I believe in my own potential to do just that.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to devote to that particular avenue of study at this moment. My extracurricular reading is almost solely about neurology, a subject in which I have a strong foundation. Trying to learn something brand new right now would surely be an exercise in futility because I learn best when I study in very long blocks (that completely flies in the face of academic research into memory and study practices, but I've always been weird). :D A lot of that is due to ADHD. I don't use my diagnosis as an excuse, but there's no denying that it sometimes dictates how much I can concentrate at any given moment.

Careers may also impact the amount of time one has to learn something as in-depth as game design. Your post piqued my interest in learning it though it's not possible for me right now. Other women might be similarly motivated to create their own games, but may share my lack of time. Also, coding is the epitome of black-and-white: your code either works or it doesn't. Such things are easier to learn than other areas of game design. What about art aspects? I've spent a good deal of time creating art, but many people haven't, and that could hinder their ability to create the type of game that buyers wouldn't ignore due to rudimentary graphics. When I say "rudimentary" I'm not talking about stark, minimalist design like in Papers, Please but rather something that looks like it was designed in MS Paint. Those types of games flood the Xbox indie category and it's hard to find one that isn't poorly received and rated.

Such deficiencies could be remedied by the tried-and-true concept of "who you know," but how many people are lucky enough to know good artists and/or musicians who could help increase the quality of their games? Not everyone is as insanely talented as the guy who created Dust: An Elysian Tale (a game I haven't played because it's diametrically opposed to my taste in games, and yet I have immense respect for its creator).

Please don't construe this post as a litany of excuses for why people can't take your sage advice. It's merely my attempt to elucidate on reasons why many women may temporarily or permanently be unable to follow it. Hopefully I didn't come across as an advocate against self-improvement. There are many men /and/ women who can only contribute their voices to problems for which they hope to see solutions. That's probably why we get confrontational when we're told, either directly or indirectly, to shut up about this topic. In my case, I have a particularly bad reaction (as you saw in my last post) to those who tell us to butt out of what we see as a valid issue and, in the same breath, told to go put our lives in jeopardy if we truly care about the treatment of our sex. Both of those are pretty big slaps in our faces.

EDIT - just one more thing. It's hard for us to use more than our voices in our attempt to improve the representation of women in gaming. Could you imagine us marching on the offices of EA and Ubisoft? ;) And nobody is going to martyr themselves for this cause. Now /that/ would cause a backlash of people lining up to declare us insane and irrational.
 

mecegirl

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May 19, 2013
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Vault101 said:
Rebel_Raven said:
I used to play just to play, and didn't care, but I've found playing as my own gender pretty nice, and pretty rare. For a while it didn't bother me that it was rare, but ultimately, I'm tired of being denied, tired of the bullshit excuses, and basically everything that gets in the way of it.
pretty much

its almost sad really that I can't be as clueless as I was and able to enjoy any half decent schlock like in highschool nad my childhood, but I've seen it...connected the dots in my own life and now I'm aware...painfully aware of all the bullshit that my favorite things have been steeped in...hell mabye this is the reason I'm not as big on games as I was 5 years ago...I'm just sick of it...and sick of being told it doesn't matter or that its our responsibilty to all get into the gaming industry and sick of being labelled a SJW or a femenazi or anything because god forbid I have an opinion on something that isn't related to Framrates or complexity of the game

but ultimatly I'm better for it
Honestly, what it might be is that the industry has changed. For me it was once the tail end of the PS2 era started that I began to really notice. Not simply in terms of protagonists. There weren't that many female protagonists in Western games anyway, but the inclusion of female party members in Japanese games was nice. And slowly but surely those games were released less frequently and I found myself with less games to be interested in. I always noticed, and was disappointed, in the lack of racial diversity, but that's another topic.

However, there was a wider range of gaming types/genres. A lot of which were made with protagonists that weren't human anyway, or at least very cartoonish. Everything wasn't so serious. Or dealt with cars and or guns. Everything wasn't a bloody war simulator. Hell, when I was a child puzzle games were respected as real games. Now people bring up Candy Crush to symbolize casual gamers...and at 28 I'm not that old. Its not like I'm a retro gamer or anything. Fucking Puyo Pop Fever was released on the damn Xbox. Then a decade passes but we are all too cool for such things now...
 

ShinyCharizard

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Oct 24, 2012
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I certainly don't care, and I don't understand the complaint of every gaming protagonist being a 30 year old brown hair white male. Looking up at my gaming collection, I see maybe 2-4 games out of 50+ that fit that bill.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Doomsdaylee said:
In my experience, most of the people who ***** about this kind of thing, when it's clearly devoid of hate,
when you make a work...your intentions don't mean shit (unlike context...which does)the only thing thats actually intentioanlly harmful I can think of is Birth of a Nation

"bingo bango bongo I don't wanna leave the congo" a song from the 50's you might have heard in Fallout 3 was not intented to be offensive, its a toungue in cheek novelty song about modern life...it Idoes however condense an enitire culture and people into bone wearing canibal savages who speak in nonse languages....hence why you don't see that anymore

"all that and rabit stew" a Warner Brothers short is a funny cartoon where bugs bunny messes with a black Elmer Fudd...an incredibly racist portrayl of a black elmer fudd nobody intended it to be racist...they just didn't see the problem with protraying black people as slow witted charichature in a time where black people were opressed.

[quote/]is Social Justice Warriors, people who feel like they don't have enough to ***** about in their life, so they have to go finding reasons.[/quote]
thankyou for telling me why I have thease issues...no doubt you know exactly what youre talking about

[quote/]or the one who thinks that by getting mad at a game not having enough women, women will like him.[/quote]
you know thats its not impossible for a dude to see the short end of the stick women get in media...

[quote/]Not saying there aren't some who are well meaning, but for the most part, it tends to be these people who blow things out of the water.[/quote]
[i/]"hence why I can dismiss any and all criticsim!"[/i]

[quote/]Good rule of thumb: If the party that's being "offended" is not you, or anyone you know/love (Addendum: If they are not offended, this still applies), shut up.[/quote]
right so I best not point out if I think a game has a negative veiw of black people...but I can cry bloody murder about framrates all day long can't I?
or hell feminism is only useful when applies to women you KNOW?


[quote/]I.E: White guy (sorry if it seems I'm targeting us, but hey, we're the ones who tend to do this) cries sexism over a game. (Say, Bayonetta). Girlfriend/sister/friend who is a girl see's no sexism, and is not offended. Shut up.
Edit: This applies more to "Sorceress in Dragons Crown is sexist!" and less to "Ubisoft saying women are to hard to code is bullshit."[/quote]
not everybody is going to agree on what they find sexist/not sexist regardless of gender, as much as I am people taking note on where they are coming from he doesn't have to get all his opinions from one person
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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BigTuk said:
Nope...you're perfectly normal. See, like many gamers you my friend exhibit the qualities of being narratively gender blind. That is, as far as the story goes you accept the people in the roles that the narrative puts them in regardless of gender, race or physical attributes. Game says shes a warrior.. so she's a warrior. Game says hes a wuss, so he's a wuss.
.
narrativly genderblind? oh please

OP just wanted his opinion validated, that opinin being "youre all being silly and should stop complaining" if he really didn'y care he wouldnt have made a thread about it
 

CloudAtlas

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Mar 16, 2013
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jFr[e said:
ak93]Is it bad that I don't really care?
No. If you really don't care, you're just neutral. However, many people who claim they don't behave accordingly at all, and that's where the problem begins.
Because there is a difference between actually not caring, and loudly proclaiming that you don't care any chance you get, and what is more, suggesting that because you don't care nobody else should, that anyone who claims to care doesn't actually care, but is just pursuing some crazy feminist agenda, white knighting, jumping on bandwagons, trying to censor all your games or whatnot (yea, that's exactly the kind of language you hear frequently, including from some guys in this forum), and should just shut up already.

So if you don't care, that's fine. Just don't behave like that.

My point being, do people actually find a lack of female characters (playable and non) in games off putting?
Yes, evidently a certain number of people do.

I'm not a girl, maybe that's part of the problem. Perhaps I would notice it more if I was.
Maybe.

But you don't need to be a woman to be able to understand, should you desire to understand, how many women feel in this regard, to be able to see the world through their eyes - to a certain degree anyway. You just have to listen to them.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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BigTuk said:
I agree with him on that note. Rather tired of hearing people whine and complain about something.
You know old saying. Some people talk about a problem, others do something about a problem.
I'll say it again...if certian people TRULY didn't care they wouldn't bother posting...theres nothing more pointless than complaining about people complaining, at least we "whine" about something real

[quote/]Most people who talk about gnder equality and what not in games only talk.. very few of them actually you know, up and make games with female protagonists. I mean if you really consider it such a bad thing, grab a copy of RPG Mker and get to work. [/quote]
because thats really easy

because thats the fucking solution to everything

because then people don't actually have to think about what their doing

because the first thing people say when anyone compalins about a game is "go make your own"

I do actually like to write so I've contributed my drop to the ocean thankyouverymuch

[quote/]Won't find that happening because you know, more fun to be outraged and fuming than it is to knuckle down and do some work[/quote]

BECAUSE OUR PROBLEMS

ARE NOT REAL

thats it folks...pack it up are done here
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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BigTuk said:
Your whining is very real to others. I But of course you seem to be one of those who tries to see everything as a slight. See I took the OP's post as one of those 'is it just me or...' types of statements. Or perhaps a genuine 'AIs something wrong with me?' because really that's something sane people do. If everyone else seems to see something that you don't then a rational being would first ask.. if there's something wrong with their eyes.
I've seen a lot of these arguments...and I've seen most of the crap people come up with..this is one of them, OP has an axe to grind just like everyone else...
[quote/]To reiterate: some people groan and complain, some people sweat and bleed. Guess which one actually changes anything.[/quote]

I GARUNTEE you would not be telling me this if my problem was due to a shoddy PC port or crappy controls, or sn IP being totally mauled

all of a sudden when this happens its not important or "whining"

"complaining" is a legitimate thing untill its something you find inconsequential then its "whining"...if you don't let the powers that be know that you think what their doing is crap then they won't know, what do you think Ubisoft is going to do with all this negative press? they might not do anything but they might stop bullshitting at least, at least they KNOW people don't like being bullshitted too, at least they knoe "its too hard" isn't good enough

in regards to Watch dogs PC port they may be forced to admit they done fucked up <-oh but that wouldn't be whining now would it? of coarse not

I can't stop peoples from voice nor should you
 

CloudAtlas

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Mar 16, 2013
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BigTuk said:
Vault101 said:
BigTuk said:
I agree with him on that note. Rather tired of hearing people whine and complain about something.
You know old saying. Some people talk about a problem, others do something about a problem.
I'll say it again...if certian people TRULY didn't care they wouldn't bother posting...theres nothing more pointless than complaining about people complaining, at least we "whine" about something real
Your whining is very real to others.
But you can easily avoid most of this "whining" by staying away from threads about such issues, by not reading articles about such issues, and so on, without losing anything. Yet you don't.

Neither do all those people who feel the need to loudly proclaim to not care about certain issues all the time.


Well you know what they say, nothing worth doing is ever easy, and yes that is the solution. You can curse the cold or build a fire, you can curse the sun or seek shade, you can curse your lack of money or you can find a job. Solutions are never found in whining or complaining, they are found in actions.
You could start up a gaming network like the Escapist where talking about gender issues is forbidden. Yet you are here. Yet you complain about people complaining.

Also... just entertain the idea that maybe some people care about more than one thing for a change. Does that mean they have to start careers in all fields where there are some issues they care about at the same time in order to be allowed to voice their opinion about said issues? Wouldn't you agree that this is not a very feasible solution?
 

MrHide-Patten

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Jun 10, 2009
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Personal choices are just that, personal. I don't care if the armor of choice is pratical or useful, is it asethtically pleasing to me, Y/N. Im sure that matters more to others, but not myself.

By that smae note however, their 'caring' is not invalidated by you 'not caring'. If I don't want to play game X because I think it looks like a sausage fest (and I have a severe low tolerance for sausages) then I'm within my rights to give it a pass, and so would anyone else that felt similarily. That's just one sale the developer/publisher *cough*UBISOFT*uncough* has lost.
 

Eddie the head

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Feb 22, 2012
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Vault101 said:
OP just wanted his opinion validated, that opinin being "youre all being silly and should stop complaining" if he really didn'y care he wouldnt have made a thread about it
No offence but I try to never affirm someones guilt by a claim of innocence. This kind of thinking kind of reminds me of the TNG episode "The Drumhead."

About 1:20, 1:30 is what I'm talking about.

He might just legitimately be asking, or he could be seeking confirmation. I don't know, but I'm not going to infer the most malicious one because "if he was innocent he wouldn't' ask." As Picard said in the clip I don't think we should allow ourselves to think that way. But that's me, your free to do whatever you want.