Am I overreacting?

[manic_depressive13]

People need to stop patronising the shit out of young people. I think eleven is plenty old enough to play GTA. It's not about being afraid to be the "bad guy". It's about having respect for your kids and their intelligence, and not imposing arbitrary, unnecessary restrictions. If you're that concerned why not sit down and talk to the kid about it.

 

[mrdude2010]

It depends on the emotional maturity of the 11 year old. I was playing Halo: CE when I was 11 and I knew it was supposed to be just a game.

 

[Mike Richards]

No you're not.

You simply adressed something that legitimately worried you and thought your sister might not have been aware of.

If I had a family member of that age I wouldn't want them to play GTA5 either... I'd just give 'm The Last of Us.

You'd give them The Last of Us, but not GTA V? The former may not be violent and chaotic for the heck of it as the entire GTA series is, but it's got some pretty messed up content. If you don't want family members that young to play GTA, I would think The Last of Us would be off limits as well. That's just my opinion though.

There is some context to consider. GTA is by and large a parody, which has also in recent entries expressed more of a flare for the dramatic, but still in general a biting satire of... quite a lot of things actually. But it's the kind of satire that can be very, very easily taken at face value if you aren't paying attention. That's one of the reasons why its so easy for people like Jack Thompson or Fox to hype it up as the scum at the heart of their imagined problem.

The Last of Us is, in regards to it's mature content, a perpetually somber and even exhausting experience designed with the sole intent to not only show you horrible things but remind you exactly how horrible they are. They're both subtle commentaries, but GTA's parody is easier to miss if you aren't looking for it then The Last of Us' straight-faced honesty.

I have no problem with the thought of one of my hypothetical children playing GTA when I feel they're emotionally mature enough to handle it, whatever age that might end up being. But I think they'd probably be ready for Last of Us first, and I'd want them to experience that and things like it first.

I'd rather show them something repulsive that intends for them to be appropriately repulsed so they can learn from it and explore those ideas from a place of relative safety, before I'd show them something repulsive that they're supposed to laugh at before they understand why they're supposed to be laughing.

EDIT:

No you're not.

The rating is there for a reason. There is no way an 11 year old is mature enough to properly deal with that content. If they somehow were, I would question the environment they grew up in...

Now hold on, I don't know that's entirely fair. I am on a whole in favor of having a rating system but it's a suggestion, a source of information. The moment you start treating it as a rule you start running afoul of the arbitrary inconsistencies, the internal politics, and the complete disregard for shades of gray. It should be an individual decision, case by case. And using that decision as the basis of questioning a child's environment, flat-out offhandedly ignoring the possibility that the parents have done that due diligence properly, is laughable at best and quite a lot more worrying at worst.

I first saw The Matrix when I was rather young, don't quite remember how old so that already says something. Certainly much younger then the R rating intended. But my parents felt I was ready for it, and I loved it. Not only did I think it was the coolest movie I had ever seen, I was fascinated by it and we had a lot of great discussions about its ideas.

But would I have had the context to understand everything that Fight Club was trying to say? Hell, if I had seen Paranormal Activity back then I probably never would have slept again. My parents made that call each time, unique to the work in question. You can't make blanket statements about what every 11 year old is ready for, just like you can't judge all R/M rated works as exactly the same. Another kid my age might have been terrified by The Matrix's idea that reality isn't real and anyone could be an Agent, but Paranormal Activity would have rolled off them like the rain.

And remember, just going by the idea that the rating is there for a reason, the relatively tame Halo is M, just like GTA. But Arkham City, which I'd count as considerably more menacing and packing more psychologically adult content then Halo only gets a T, because you technically don't ever kill anyone and Batman is kinda silly right? Just some cartoon for kids. Or maybe you'd rather look at the time Oblivion got re-rated as M because someone made a crappy nude mod and the ESRB broke their usual rules for online or 3rd party content. Which physically cannot effect any of the console versions that still got re-rated. Oh yeah, the rating is sure there for a reason.

 

[SKBPinkie]

Lol at the people saying he's overreacting. And then people go on to complain about 10 year-olds on XBL calling them gay.

You're not overreacting, dude. It feels like you simply told her that the game is not appropriate without telling her about the particular scenarios / conversations in the game (correct me if I'm wrong).

Once she knows, then yeah - it's not your problem anymore. It's her kid, and she should know what's best for the kid. Even if she doesn't - it's not your problem.

Informing her of the details is enough, as she doesn't seem to know much about the GTA games. What she does with that info is her choice.

 

[ProtosOmega]

You are definitely not overreacting. I wish more parents were actually like you.

 

[SexyGarfield]

While I generally lean towards letting the parent decide what is right for their kid 11 seems a bit young for the content of that game, especially if their parent doesn't know exactly what the kid is going to see. As for the people arguing that kids can process whatever is put in front of them in a healthy way, I used to have a coworker that let his 5 year old play the this game and a bunch of other modern shooters. The father constantly complained that his son would rise to violence in competitive matters but wouldn't even entertain the idea that the concepts exposed to him through the medium of gaming were at all responsible. Ask yourself where you would put the line for a child virtually torturing someone.

 

[Savagezion]

It's not your kid. You get to express your opinion exactly once.

You have done so.

Now butt out and stop being a backseat driving jerk.

How horrible to have family taking an active interest in your children. This attitude is "I am the parent and I say so" often used as a way to avoid usig logic by "pulling rank" because it is easier than using logic.

I will always bow to rank but I will also usually point out what a cop out it is before I do.

 

[Callate]

I'm sure that somewhere out there is an eleven-year-old who wouldn't find the content of GTA V troubling, and could process it without it doing them any harm or raising any unpleasant emotions or fears.

But I suspect that child is a rare bird.

I don't think you're overreacting. I don't know how well you know the child, but that your sister feels the need to pull the "all his friends are playing it" card as part of the defense makes this sound more like some combination of a) "I don't want to put up with my child whining and/or saying they hate me" b) "I want to be the 'friendly, cool, easygoing parent', rather than the 'fun-killing disciplinarian' parent" c) "I'm willing to assume society will work out an acceptable lowest-common-denominator and I'm just allowing my child to partake in it so that he'll be socially acceptable to his peers."

The best I can suggest is maybe sending a link to a YouTube video of the torture scene to her, trying to gently suggest that, no, this really isn't acceptable for an 11-year-old. But ultimately, that's about all you can do, and it doesn't sound like you can push much more without it just becoming a sore point between you and making her less likely to listen to you in the future. He is her child, after all, even if I agree that it sounds like she isn't taking this portion of her parenting duties seriously enough.

(My nearly-eleven-year-old daughter is just starting to be allowed to play games like Torchlight.)

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

I don't think it's "overreacting" to tell someone something they might not be aware of - especially where the well being of a child is in the balance. Now, if you snatched the game up - ran out in the yard, chucked it into the woodchipper and screamed NO repeatedly - then yeah, you're overreacting (and should probably be medicated).

Since when did speaking up become an overreaction? - or even questionable as one? Did I miss a memo?

I'm absolutely shocked that as many people have said this is overreacting in this thread. Honestly.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Overreacting yes, because you expressed your concern and still feel concerned. Not your kid,not your problem.

It's his nephew. Expressing concern about what he's being exposed to is a very understandable stance for an uncle to adopt.

OT: I wouldn't say so. Its of course hard to take away a gift once given, especially to someone that age, so I would bring up the rating label system with her and not drop it. Or you could let her deal with the consequences on her own. I'm not saying he's going to grow up to be a serial killer or anything but I might expect to see some negative attitudes/behaviors cropping up.

I know I was impressionable at that age.

 

[Racecarlock]

Here's a crazy idea. Why don't you ask the kid?

Seriously, parents NEVER seem to do this. They never seem to just go for the "Sit down with your kids and have a discussion about laws and being a good human" approach. They always ask other people what to do and never ever get the child's opinion.

I know that when I was 11 I was mature enough to handle those conversations. So instead of talking with us, have a talk with him instead.

 

[Gorden Springel]

I played GTA3 when I was 11 and I turned out alright, in my opinion anyway lol. That said, I haven't played GTA 5 so it's quite possible the game is worse than GTA 3 was, but so long as the kid understands it's a game then I wouldn't think you should get bent out of shape over it.

 

[Casual Shinji]

If I had a family member of that age I wouldn't want them to play GTA5 either... I'd just give 'm The Last of Us.

You'd give them The Last of Us, but not GTA V? The former may not be violent and chaotic for the heck of it as the entire GTA series is, but it's got some pretty messed up content. If you don't want family members that young to play GTA, I would think The Last of Us would be off limits as well. That's just my opinion though.

I was kidding.

I know I didn't add a '', but I thought it would speak for itself.

 

[white_wolf]

No you aren't this is an M game that earns its rating with not just the torture with her response it sounds like Witcher series is also cleared for her child. No offense but your sister sounds like she hasn't done her research or just saw some free roam bits and thinks thats it if she wants him to be into M games playing it herself thoroughly mainquest, sidequests, and hidden quests or watching extensive lets play would be a better option.

I was talking to a Game Stop employee a few months ago about M games and the subject of kids with them and GTA 5 was broached he said when they find parents trying to buy M games like GTA for their young child they can read them the riot act on the thing and they still say they're ok with all the game provides their little one the classic, " All his friends are doing it," argument is bad parenting so if all his friends are doing drugs later down the line would she also read up on the harm it could do but be fine with it cuz she wants to be the cool mom, with the in crowd child? Parents are that parents first their child's friend later. Maybe get the clips of some of the content that worries you and email the video to her and show her exactly what he'll see and see if she's still fine with it maybe you could be the tester before she runs out and buys the game (if thats something you'd be up to doing) and give her a review if you know the child's mental state well or if she and you make up acceptable and non acceptable viewing content for his age and maturity level not based on his friends wants this could be an option if she doesn't or can't play the game in question.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

I played GTA Vice City when I was, I think, 9 years old or something. I don't think it made me all that crazy. If your nephew is mentally stable I wouldn't worry too much.

Roman boys used to go to gladiator fights and they still became some of the greatest leaders the world has ever known. All this "think of the children" stuff is nonsense as far as I'm concerned.

The Romans also like to crucify prisoners in view of enemy fortress, prolonging their suffering for days while practicing 'decimation' (where out of every ten soldiers nine would have to beat the tenth to death) on deserting soldiers or even on ones who had just lost a battle, and underwent the rule of no less than five separate emperors in one year due to assassination, bribery, and a civil war or two.

Yep, totally a group of people we should copy entertainment preferences from.

OP, you should at least explain to your sister that while yes all his other friends are supposedly playing it, it's a game where you can get lap dances and murder hookers.

If that doesn't get your sister to do anything then there really isn't much more you can do as at the end of the day all you are to the child is just a Aunt.

 

[Nata-chan]

I think you aren't overreacting but it seems the die is cast. Your nephew already has the game, and probably has already played it. I would keep an eye on what content he is playing through and your sister should know what he's gonna come up against in the main quests in terms of themes so she can deal with it.

When I worked for EBGames I used to tell parents who were dead keen to buy San Andreas for their kids (yeah, that's how long ago it was) that in the first half hour of the game you were going to hear every cuss under the sun. That's ignoring everything else (also it was like $70!!). I wasn't trying to dissuade them to buy it, that's the opposite of my job, but I didn't want them coming back and being like "you didn't tell me this when I bought it, now little Johhny is going around calling everyone and this that and the other". I think you have probably introduced an element of caution to your sister, but you can't press the issue. Then it makes you seem like you're being pushy.

Kids can sometimes handle stuff like this, either because they are mature, or because they don't really get it. And sometimes they decide if its something they don't like. My parents a few times let me play M rated games, but more often let me watch M15 movies, even before I was a teenager. I really wanted to play Conker's Bad Fur Day but I didn't really like it because it was "too adult" (HAH!). I much preferred the kid-friendly Banjo-Kazooie.

And it depends on how he plays GTA. Does he go around beating everyone up (and is that any worse than Mario or pro-wrestling games) or is he in it for the cars (which look gorgeous!) and drag racing? Does he "get" the mission dialogue or is it 'mash A, mash A, mash A' until the mission starts and it's drive here under 1 minute?

Overall, parents should research the products their kids are exposed to. You don't often pick a movie at the theatre on a whim, you have seen a trailer. Same with games, watch the trailer first. Or read the back of the box for goodness sake.

SO TLDR version: not overreacting, good to give her a heads up, and she needs to act as a safety net to deal with any issues that arise now he's probably finished the game.

 

[Stu35]

TLDR: My sister bought my 11 year old nephew GTA:V for his birthday and I think it's unsuitable for someone that young. Thoughts?

Depends on the 11 year old.

I don't know your Nephew, you do (presumably) - so, do you believe he shouldn't be playing GTA:V because he's 11, or because you genuinely think that he's not mature enough to properly appreciate what's going on in that game within the wider context of the world we live in?

My gut instinct would be this: I wouldn't let my 11 year old play a Grand Theft Auto title beyond GTA:2 (who's top down view and cartoonish nature make it okay in my opinion, if that makes sense). However I don't have an 11 year old, perhaps if I ever do get an 11 year old I'll decide that it is, in fact, old enough mentally to have a bash on a game which contains pretty much every crime right up to and including rape and murder.


TLR: I don't know, but I'd err on the side of caution, particularly when it comes to GTA:V. If it was Call of Duty I'd consider it a different matter.

If I had a family member of that age I wouldn't want them to play GTA5 either... I'd just give 'm The Last of Us.

You'd give them The Last of Us, but not GTA V? The former may not be violent and chaotic for the heck of it as the entire GTA series is, but it's got some pretty messed up content. If you don't want family members that young to play GTA, I would think The Last of Us would be off limits as well. That's just my opinion though.

I was kidding.

I know I didn't add a '', but I thought it would speak for itself.

Yeah, people on this forum just don't get humour. I try it all the time and it literally never works out.

People tend to hide behind the "text based medium is difficult to understand tone", but I genuinely just think some people are wilfully ignorant on this forum (as well as the wider internet - just look at any joke picture on Facebook, it's like a mega-line up of fucking morons with sense of humour failures.

S'pose what I'm trying to say is: I feel for you getting an obvious joke misunderstood. Happens a lot on this forum.

 

[Nata-chan]

TLR: I don't know, but I'd err on the side of caution, particularly when it comes to GTA:V. If it was Call of Duty I'd consider it a different matter.

Can I ask why COD is different? I know it doesn't have the crime aspect, but it's pretty violent (well it is warfare). Isn't the patriotism ratchet-o-meter and indiference to killing enemy combatants still troubling?
Nevermind the kids on voice chat giving grief... shudder.

 

[elvor0]

but because I just don't believe that children should be exposed to that sort of content at an age where they simply wont understand the proper implications of what's happening.

hah oh you're in for a thunder punch to the face if you think that video games are the most likely source to be exposed to stuff/content when you're young...

You can't police the world, many parents fail to see this, kids interact every single day with hundreds of people at school, they are bound to pick up horrifying things everywhere. I remember the first nudie magazine getting passed around in 4th grade, I remember getting to play resident evil at a friends at age 5, I remember when the middle school kids tried selling my friends and I cigarettes when we were in 5th grade, I remember seeing south park the movie in 4th grade, etc...

my point is, being the "bad guy" in the situation just makes your child despise you and then chooses to always use ulterior methods to acquire said things instead, school is the black market of getting access to things, don't be naive in thinking that denying them this game here and now is going to prevent little timmy from being exposed to this stuff anyways.

OT: Depends on the childs maturity mostly, if you know the kid pretty well and don't think they can handle it, then perhaps play the game with them and check up on em from time to time, or ask the mom to do as such so they can experience it too.

See this. I remember seeing South Park The Movie when I was fucking 7 or 8. I certainly played Resident evil 2 when I was 7. Me and my mother had hours of fun playing Graaaand Theft Auto London, when it came out. And we were both fine, aside from the /most/ extreme stuff, Mother always explained stuff, explained why it was bad, and bobs your uncle, I knew that that stuff was innapropriate most of the time, or at that age, at any situation outside of the game. Like this guy said, kids are exposed to a ton of stuff every day anyway, if he can handle it, that's fine, judge it based on the kid, don't just blanket them, and if they can't handle stuff, educate them so they can.

In which case, as with many things considered "bad" from childhood, I believe that if the parent explains why it is bad and doesn't talk down to the kid, they're less likely to overreact to it, or go mental, or rebel, as is the case when a parent just says "NO ITS BAD BECAUSE I SAID SO". I mean fuck me, my mum smoked weed while I was growing up and she never made a big thing of it, which inversly to what you'd expect, I didn't start smoking till I was 18.

 

[karloss01]

snip

easy solution to this, ask your sister if she knows about the torture and lap dancing and then ask if she is still okay with her son playing the game. it's her decision in the end and you can only hope she actually put some thought into it.