Am I overreacting?

[Stu35]

Can I ask why COD is different? I know it doesn't have the crime aspect, but it's pretty violent (well it is warfare). Isn't the patriotism ratchet-o-meter and indiference to killing enemy combatants still troubling?
Nevermind the kids on voice chat giving grief... shudder.

I figured someone would ask that. I suppose it goes to how I perceive the world and the way I grew up:

Playing 'soldiers' is, as far as I'm concerned, a normal part of childhood, and in the modern age of technology that extends to Call of Duty - all you're doing is playing 'soldiers', really. The violence is pretty cartoonish and over-the-top, there's nothing particularly gritty or grim about the way it's presented (despite what some people think).

Now, 'cops and robbers' is also a normal part of childhood, but the latest incarnations of GTA are not really an extension of that because when you play 'Cops and Robbers' as a child, you've not actually gone about and murdered a prostitute... It's more like an extended version of 'tag'.

Perhaps not very well worded, but do you see where I'm coming from? Truth is it's not the violence that bothers me - the worlds a pretty violent place, kids see that on the news every day (or they fucking should, kids don't watch the news enough these days and it pisses me off, fucking Justin Beiber listening, XFactor watching, iPad playing generation of retards we've got now). It's how it's presented in the context of interactive media.

 

[TwiZtah]

Hi guys,

So basically it was recently my nephew's 11th birthday and I was browsing the pictures my sister posted on Facebook of him opening his presents that morning. He's really into gaming at the moment, so he was gifted with a couple for his Xbox 360. One of the choices?

Grand Theft Auto V. A couple of things sprung to mind when I saw my nephew holding the box - namely the torture segment which you have actively play through in the single player campaign and the lap dance minigame. And of course, the usual content you would expect from a Grand Theft Auto title. I found myself feeling very troubled at the idea of him playing it.

I expressed my concern to my sister who in turn gave the whole "I know exactly what's in the game and I'm happy for him to play it, all his friends are playing". For one thing, I highly doubt my sister knows much about the content. Just last year she was asking my boyfriend about GTA:IV because my nephew wanted that one, and he advised her that it was probably unsuitable for a 10 year old (which he was at that time). The fact that she wasn't aware of the sort of content that's in a well known franchise like Grand Theft Auto then doesn't inspire me with confidence that she knows more now.

Also, just because his friends are playing it shouldn't make it ok. You shouldn't be afraid to be the "bad guy" parent just because it will make you unpopular for a few days. But at the same time I know what it's like to want to join in on things with your friends and the likelihood is that he's begged her for the game simply because his friends have it.

So am I overreacting? I probably wouldn't have batted an eye if he was mid teens (depending on his mental maturity), but ELEVEN? It just seems so young for a game like that. At the end of the day, she's his mother and (apparently) knows what's best but I couldn't see myself giving a child of mine a game I know is full of strong adult content when they're not even a teenager yet.

(I'd like to point out that I'm in no way bashing GTA:V. Both me and my boyfriend have played it extensively and enjoyed it a lot - but we're both 21. It's an 18 certification (in the UK) for a very good reason in my opinion)

TLDR: My sister bought my 11 year old nephew GTA:V for his birthday and I think it's unsuitable for someone that young. Thoughts?

I'm conflicted, I myself played GTA 3 when I was around that age or even younger, not to mention I started my gaming hobby with Doom when I was around 4-5 years old. So far, I have not shot up a school, and I have no intention of doing that. As long as the environment around him is good, coupled with no inherent mental disorders, it should theoretically be no problem. He will not care about the torture scene, at age 11, he has little concept of empathy, and will shrug it off.

 

[HardkorSB]

TLDR: My sister bought my 11 year old nephew GTA:V for his birthday and I think it's unsuitable for someone that young. Thoughts?

Here's the thing:
If all his friends have the game then he's going to play it regardless of whether he has it himself or not.
It's better to buy it and have a talk with him about it than not.
Also, the kid is 11 and we're living in the internet age, he probably knew what's in the game before playing it anyways. Kids aren't as stupid as some adults think they are, they get the "adult stuff" and the ones who are stupid will be stupid regardless of their age.
Sheltering them from knowledge about things like murder and rape, things that they will have to be exposed to anyway, is never a good idea.

 

[VoidWanderer]

You aren't overreacting. You are just concerned. Overreacting would be taking the discs out, throwing them into a blender then throwing the remains of the game into a bonfire.

As long as you voice your concerns, it's fine. It wasn't a kneejerk reaction, it was thought out and concise.

 

[fenrizz]

I honestly don't see the big deal.

I played violent games (from Postal via GTA to Resident Evil) from an early age, and I can't see that it has affected me negativly.

Besides, all his friends got the games anyway, so it's not like he won't get to play it.

Let the kid have some fun, and don't be a killjoy.

 

[Dominic Crossman]

GTA 5 is a no go for that age at all in my opinion. But that's not to say I feel that way about all 18 rated games as some are worse or better then others, such as XCOM: Enemy Unknown/Within which is a PEGI 18 but about as graphic as you're average PEGI 7/12. There are probably better examples but can't think of them right now.

 

[Nata-chan]

I figured someone would ask that. I suppose it goes to how I perceive the world and the way I grew up:

Playing 'soldiers' is, as far as I'm concerned, a normal part of childhood, and in the modern age of technology that extends to Call of Duty - all you're doing is playing 'soldiers', really. The violence is pretty cartoonish and over-the-top, there's nothing particularly gritty or grim about the way it's presented (despite what some people think).

Now, 'cops and robbers' is also a normal part of childhood, but the latest incarnations of GTA are not really an extension of that because when you play 'Cops and Robbers' as a child, you've not actually gone about and murdered a prostitute... It's more like an extended version of 'tag'.

Perhaps not very well worded, but do you see where I'm coming from? Truth is it's not the violence that bothers me - the worlds a pretty violent place, kids see that on the news every day (or they fucking should, kids don't watch the news enough these days and it pisses me off, fucking Justin Beiber listening, XFactor watching, iPad playing generation of retards we've got now). It's how it's presented in the context of interactive media.

I get where you are coming from, especially that you are going to see worse in the real world on the news. Not to get all tree-hugging-beatnick about it, but aren't war games reinforcing the military-industrial machine? You can watch the aftermath of foreign intervention on the TV, people fighting in their own land against another country's army. Then you can go and play it in COD. Isn't that sort of sending a wrong signal to glorify war? Or maybe that war isn't as terrible as in reality, i.e. we aren't paying enough attention to the actual impact of conflict on individual soldiers like PTSD, physical disfiguration, etc.

Then again, if you look at it that way, we should all be damned for playing games because it reinforces some of the worst things people do to themselves and each other - warfare and driving through each others' bellies with swords, whoring, drinking, taking drugs, torture, greed, etc... If we take the beatnicky approach (without smoking pot) then Skyrim would be sitting around having a cup of tea while dragons go on the rampage...

 

[llew]

I don't see any problems with that. It is just a bloody game, I played Postal 2 at that age. If the parents feel that he can deal with the content of the game then there is no problem.

Yeah GTA:V and Portal 2 are two VERY different games, comparing them in terms of content is like comparing bread and milk for texture.
OT: no you did not over-react, if it was me i would have told her exactly what was in the game to make my point as to why i didnt think he should play it. I dont let my 11 year-old sister play games older than 16, i think she is mature enough to handle the 18 stuff but its not the point, the content is often far more in-your-face in an 18 game than a lower age-rating

He said Postal 2 not Portal 2

though I also read it as "Portal 2" at first

Ok i am in stitches at that now! I apologise for the mistake

 

[llew]

I don't see any problems with that. It is just a bloody game, I played Postal 2 at that age. If the parents feel that he can deal with the content of the game then there is no problem.

Yeah GTA:V and Portal 2 are two VERY different games, comparing them in terms of content is like comparing bread and milk for texture.

I don't get what Portal 2 has to do with this...

Yeah someone just pointed out to me that i misread it and i am sorry for that...

 

[Vrach]

OP snip

I wouldn't worry about it much unless your nephew has downright serious mental problems or is remarkably impressionable and violent, which I assume isn't the case.

I've personally played every kind of violent game you can imagine (at one point, we even played Postal, our opinion was it was boring and the game's humour was sick and cheap) when I was a kid and so did most of my friends. We were never the violent sort. I mean, we could talk about how we ran over an old lady in a videogame or how we racked in headshots in Counter-Strike, even laugh ourselves silly about something like that, but none of us supported actual violence of any sort.

That's not to say I didn't know violent people who also happened to play videogames then. But none of them were your "throw a cat in the washing machine" or "hang a classmate by his ankles over a balcony" sort of violent. Just the occasional scruffs and boy fights and I know for a fact video games haven't influenced them that way, it was their upbringing and social surroundings.

 

[Savagezion]

I don't see any problems with that. It is just a bloody game, I played Postal 2 at that age. If the parents feel that he can deal with the content of the game then there is no problem.

Yeah GTA:V and Portal 2 are two VERY different games, comparing them in terms of content is like comparing bread and milk for texture.

I don't get what Portal 2 has to do with this...

I agree with that sentiment for sure. However, if your 11 year old kid can handle torturing people and making strippers shake that ass, I really don't see that as a credit to how good of a parent you are in today's world.

I really don't see how this would reflect their parenting skills if the kid is mature enough to understand that this all is just fiction.

GTA5 doesn't really break any ground when it comes to either nudity or violence. Movies and older games did this already and you can bet your ass that enough children did watch or play those without any psychological reprecussions.

11 is not some sacred, everyone is innocent age. Some kids become are more mature and this also includes the ability to not be phased by fictional content. "Torture" and all those things... are just pixels and code with unrealistic looking human puppets.

Seems like I simply can get my blood boiling against something that I've done myself at that and younger age.

I do agree with the sentiment that it depends on the kid but, at the same time, I don't see any reason to allow a 11 year old kid to play a game that celebrates issues adults have a hard time with. For every "it's ok" there is a "no,it's not" and this is with more mature minds trying to come at the subject. Throwing something like that at an 11 year old is only gonna send mixed messages about stuff he/she shouldn't even be focusing on yet. EVERY 11 year old brain is still working on fundamentals and it hasn't even had to deal with puberty yet. It soon will. Puberty however, is when I think it is best to introduce that stuff because puberty actually steps you into the adult world with hormones and pheromones messing with your chemistry and are linked to both sex and violent behavior - but you are still protected by legal system. However, I think puberty will automatically step you in the correct mindset to view the material. What they are trying to appeal TO. What the game is about is easier to see after having went through or being in puberty. Thus, rated M. But that is just my views on it.

I don't care what I got to do as a child. "I don't care what other parents let their kids do, including my own parents." In this scenario, I am the parent that matters. I had a very loose structure growing up and I assure you loose structure has more negatives than more structure for a kid. There is no way I am gonna let my kid be able to do what I could which isn't hard because I have done it. Which just means they will get away with different stuff. But they will always think they get away with "nothing". I am not against all violence and sex in games. I have no problem with any kid who can work a controller and be able to navigate the game themselves playing Mortal Kombat, Def Jam: FfNY, Mass Effect 1, RDR, GTA 1 through Vice City even depending on the kid. Probably San Andreas too. Not GTA 4 or 5 though or Saint's Row, probably not DUke Nukem either - as I don't think the kid is ready because he/she doesn't even know what puberty is like. Just whatever they heard, probably mostly from other 5th and 6th graders. Even if from parents, its just what they've heard, not what they know from experience. They have no frame of reference. They aren't dumb, they are just ignorant. Which is also why I think kids are more capable of behaving more maturely than some adults in many situations.

I don't mean to be all like "no one should let their kid play GTA5" and I certainly ain't calling for a ban. However, if you let me watch your kid, he/she wouldn't be allowed to play GTA5. If they press me I am gonna tell them ALL of this stuff (but nicer and kid friendly) and probably talk with em for about an hour about stuff like this and watching how their minds work in the conversation. Most 11 year olds will get insecure and/or uncomfortable with talks like this with an adult. If they don't you got a good GTA5 candidate. But that's just the beginning. Then you gotta find out what they have been listening to in regards to "mature" conversations.

I got a whole system for this type of thing. Not saying its the only right way, just saying that's how I see it. If your 11 year old understands the context of torture and even just the idea of a lapdance minigame, what have you been exposing that child to? If you think it is all as easy as "fiction vs. fantasy" torture and lap dances are something real that really happens in real life. It is a realistic fantasy. A kid knows people can't cast spells, unless they have a strong imagination. Even then, he/she is pretty sure they can't. But if they can handle torturing in a game, they know what it is and that it really happens to people. It makes them think about that and it's morality. They find out the world is grey on it the deeper they dig. (Most won't dig deep past that though I bet.) It has an impact on their perception of adulthood, of which, they have no frame of reference. I ain't trying to write a book here, so I am gonna stop.

I do agree there could be some exceptions depending on the 11 year old but my views are assuming we are talk a small single digit % here. Which I believe to be the case. 8-16 year olds in the gaming community have not presented themselves well. It is getting better, IMO but I think we are still in the low single digit percentile.

 

[Charli]

This is a difficult one, precisely because of this, my parents were super cool at putting things into context for me, and talking me through what's wrong and right.

Attentive parents can make 18 rated material viewing an educational experience rather than a trauma inducing, life fucking one.

I mean I watched South Park the Movie when I was 12... kind of on accident, kind of not, and my mum (albeit giggling like a loon through half of it, did explain enough of it to me for me to see the funny side and the absurd streak that is supposed to be prevalent, something that is obvious to an adult but may not be to a developing child)

Context can change alot of it and if your Sister intends to sit down with the kid and play some of it with him...I can see it being less of a problem.


ON THE FLIP SIDE OF IT. There are those parents who believe media is some kind of futuristic babysitter and lil timmy will learn all he needs to know from it... Potentially weakening his grasp on the world at best or royally fucking him up at worst. I've seen both types of parents in GAME back when I was working there.

One set, was buying Assassins Creed for their kid, and I talked them through all the historic discussions you could engage in whilst playing through the campaign.

However during call of duty launches... eugh... I'm sorry to anyone who enjoys this franchise, but the dregs of the human species all marched through the queue during those. And those mums with a baby screaming off their arm, their phone in their other hand, and their other kid hopping up and down like a hyperactive gopher with CoD in their hands and them going 'yeah whatever' disinterestedly. Fuck. You. Lady.


So...the issue is complex. Try if you can and when you get the opportunity to sit down and keep your Nephew grounded during segments like those. You never know how kids interpret things they see and it's good to be around to be the guide they need. Hiding things from them only makes them want to see/do it more I find though.

 

[Blue_vision]

Its her kid but I would have the same reaction. I don't even let my little brothers in the same room when I am playing the game. 11 is to young for some of that stuff even if you discount all the violence.

Yeah I have to agree with this, it wouldn't be the violence so much that worries me as all the sexism and other questionable values (whether they're displayed ironically or not) that a kid might pick up on if they're not mature. Especially at 11; I might trust a 13 year old with GTA, but there's definitely a wide range in the maturity of people under that age.

 

[Liquidprid3]

So 11 years old is about 5th/6th grade. I honestly don't think you're overreacting, but it depends if your sister thinks he is ready for this type of game. Her argument was weak, so you might want to tell her more about the game.

 

[The Night Shade]

I played vice city when i was like 8 and san andreas when i was 12, they were violent? sure but i had a great time playing them so i think he'll be ok.

 

[nikolamat]

Depends on the maturity of the child. I myself am 13 years old and have played all of the GTA games after GTA 3 (including 5)and many other rated 18 games (many of them (including god of war) before I was 8), and I am not a homicidal maniac and nothing has really disturbed me in any of those games. For example, I felt bad for the person being tortured in GTA 5, but I did not curl up into a fetal position and cry for the next couple of weeks, nor did I feel that torturing people is good.

 

[CannibalCorpses]

...you are overreacting!

Let me put this as simply as i can...it's fiction. If you haven't taught your child the difference between fiction and reality then you are not a good parent. That isn't a statement about you but a statement to everyone who has children. Blaming real life violence on fictional violence is just an attempt to pass the blame of poor parenting onto someone else. Hiding children from fictional violence just makes real life violence far more traumatic...and let's face it, everyone ends up with real life violence at some point. If you haven't prepared your children for the real world then you are a fucking failure of a parent and should start pointing the finger at yourself rather than trying to blame everyone and everything else.

Hope that leaves no room for misinterpretation

 

[Savagezion]

Depends on the maturity of the child. I myself am 13 years old and have played all of the GTA games after GTA 3 (including 5)and many other rated 18 games (many of them (including god of war) before I was 8), and I am not a homicidal maniac and nothing has really disturbed me in any of those games. For example, I felt bad for the person being tortured in GTA 5, but I did not curl up into a fetal position and cry for the next couple of weeks, nor did I feel that torturing people is good.

Thanks for posting this. This post alone is enough to prove to me I would probably allow you to play GTA5 if you were 11. Your mind is clearly working where it needs to. Not because of what you said, but because of how you said it and nothing you said ruined it. (Try and figure that one out )

It really isn't about thinking the kid is going to break down and not be able to handle it. In my case, it's about getting a kid to focus properly, which kids are terrible at. Even the best 11 year olds I have seen. Even the best 15 year olds I have seen. Some even make it to adulthood never learning how, seriously. You don't need an opinion on torture at 13 unless you are in the military somewhere. You still can't pick up your room, or remember your books, or come home on time, or something. I KNOW you have a list your parents nag you about. Every kid does. Torture isn't worth spending your time on right now as it is going to pop up when you are 15-16 anyways so just tackle it then when you study world history in high school which I agree with the timing of. What do you want to do when you grow up? Why? How are you going to do it? What will you need? Have I taught you the proper value of a dollar? All the way down to how do you want to celebrate your birthday, with me, your boring parent until your 16? Many things taken for granted by kids are important. They just can't focus. The world is so NEW! I want my kid to be thinking about stuff like this before they hit puberty and suddenly they can get easily distracted by hormones and it makes it harder for them to think about that 'boring' stuff for long periods of time. It can even make really stupid things seem like a good judgement call.

Your old enough though, I can't blame you for wanting to play GTA5 and wouldn't bother to stop you in my house unless told otherwise by your parents. But I do like that you can't get a copy without an adult at retail. It makes the parent the buffer. However, laws against games I don't tend to like. SO any Gamestop employee or Wal-Mart clerk that refuses a minor from buying a copy of GTA5, I do actually appreciate. You got a copy and played it with a buffer in place. You're probably fine.

EDIT: BTW I ain't asking you these questions. Although, they are good questions. Just illustrating what my perspective is so you can make of it what you will.

 

[Brian Tams]

First off, it is apparent that a lot of the posters in this thread need to learn some reading comprehension. The OP isn't trying to take the game away, s/he isn't going on a militant, xbox 360 destruction spree; all s/he did was express some concerns. Seriously guys, get a clue.

Secondly: No, you did not overreact. You voiced a concern; we should all be encourage to voice our concerns to our family members. At the end of the day, though, the decision is your sister's as it is her child.
For the record, at least turn the box around and show her the reasons why it was rated M, so she can better understand. In my experience, parents don't even know that games carry ratings, just like movies.

 

[BakedSardine]

...you are overreacting!

Let me put this as simply as i can...it's fiction. If you haven't taught your child the difference between fiction and reality then you are not a good parent. That isn't a statement about you but a statement to everyone who has children. Blaming real life violence on fictional violence is just an attempt to pass the blame of poor parenting onto someone else. Hiding children from fictional violence just makes real life violence far more traumatic...and let's face it, everyone ends up with real life violence at some point. If you haven't prepared your children for the real world then you are a fucking failure of a parent and should start pointing the finger at yourself rather than trying to blame everyone and everything else.

Hope that leaves no room for misinterpretation

If fiction is your barometer for allowing an 11-year old to see content that is clearly inappropriate, at what point do you think it's OK to let your kids watch porn?

"Oh, hey son, just watching a little fiction I see. Dinner is at 5."

I'm not saying that GTAV is comparable to porn, but it is clearly not age appropriate for an 11 year-old. I think there are varying degrees of what an M rated game means and who it's appropriate for. My oldest is 9 and I'd never let them play something like GTA V until they're at least 14, but there are probably certain games like zombie killing games that I might be more lax on. As a parent, I see a big difference between bloodying up the screen with zombies versus having my kid go into a virtual strip club, making it rain and/or performing fictionalized torture on someone.

Not all M rated games are inappropriate for tweens, but GTA V probably is. I think once your kids hit high school (age 14), if you think they're responsible, you can take the reins off a bit.