I played vice city when i was like 8 and san andreas when i was 12, they were violent? sure but i had a great time playing them so i think he'll be ok.
Am I overreacting?
- Thread starter Jessabi
- Start date
Depends on the maturity of the child. I myself am 13 years old and have played all of the GTA games after GTA 3 (including 5)and many other rated 18 games (many of them (including god of war) before I was 8), and I am not a homicidal maniac and nothing has really disturbed me in any of those games. For example, I felt bad for the person being tortured in GTA 5, but I did not curl up into a fetal position and cry for the next couple of weeks, nor did I feel that torturing people is good.
...you are overreacting!
Let me put this as simply as i can...it's fiction. If you haven't taught your child the difference between fiction and reality then you are not a good parent. That isn't a statement about you but a statement to everyone who has children. Blaming real life violence on fictional violence is just an attempt to pass the blame of poor parenting onto someone else. Hiding children from fictional violence just makes real life violence far more traumatic...and let's face it, everyone ends up with real life violence at some point. If you haven't prepared your children for the real world then you are a fucking failure of a parent and should start pointing the finger at yourself rather than trying to blame everyone and everything else.
Hope that leaves no room for misinterpretation
Let me put this as simply as i can...it's fiction. If you haven't taught your child the difference between fiction and reality then you are not a good parent. That isn't a statement about you but a statement to everyone who has children. Blaming real life violence on fictional violence is just an attempt to pass the blame of poor parenting onto someone else. Hiding children from fictional violence just makes real life violence far more traumatic...and let's face it, everyone ends up with real life violence at some point. If you haven't prepared your children for the real world then you are a fucking failure of a parent and should start pointing the finger at yourself rather than trying to blame everyone and everything else.
Hope that leaves no room for misinterpretation
Thanks for posting this. This post alone is enough to prove to me I would probably allow you to play GTA5 if you were 11. Your mind is clearly working where it needs to. Not because of what you said, but because of how you said it and nothing you said ruined it. (Try and figure that one outnikolamat said:
)It really isn't about thinking the kid is going to break down and not be able to handle it. In my case, it's about getting a kid to focus properly, which kids are terrible at. Even the best 11 year olds I have seen. Even the best 15 year olds I have seen. Some even make it to adulthood never learning how, seriously. You don't need an opinion on torture at 13 unless you are in the military somewhere. You still can't pick up your room, or remember your books, or come home on time, or something. I KNOW you have a list your parents nag you about. Every kid does. Torture isn't worth spending your time on right now as it is going to pop up when you are 15-16 anyways so just tackle it then when you study world history in high school which I agree with the timing of. What do you want to do when you grow up? Why? How are you going to do it? What will you need? Have I taught you the proper value of a dollar? All the way down to how do you want to celebrate your birthday, with me, your boring parent until your 16? Many things taken for granted by kids are important. They just can't focus. The world is so NEW! I want my kid to be thinking about stuff like this before they hit puberty and suddenly they can get easily distracted by hormones and it makes it harder for them to think about that 'boring' stuff for long periods of time. It can even make really stupid things seem like a good judgement call.
Your old enough though, I can't blame you for wanting to play GTA5 and wouldn't bother to stop you in my house unless told otherwise by your parents. But I do like that you can't get a copy without an adult at retail. It makes the parent the buffer. However, laws against games I don't tend to like. SO any Gamestop employee or Wal-Mart clerk that refuses a minor from buying a copy of GTA5, I do actually appreciate. You got a copy and played it with a buffer in place. You're probably fine.
EDIT: BTW I ain't asking you these questions. Although, they are good questions. Just illustrating what my perspective is so you can make of it what you will.
First off, it is apparent that a lot of the posters in this thread need to learn some reading comprehension. The OP isn't trying to take the game away, s/he isn't going on a militant, xbox 360 destruction spree; all s/he did was express some concerns. Seriously guys, get a clue.
Secondly: No, you did not overreact. You voiced a concern; we should all be encourage to voice our concerns to our family members. At the end of the day, though, the decision is your sister's as it is her child.
For the record, at least turn the box around and show her the reasons why it was rated M, so she can better understand. In my experience, parents don't even know that games carry ratings, just like movies.
Secondly: No, you did not overreact. You voiced a concern; we should all be encourage to voice our concerns to our family members. At the end of the day, though, the decision is your sister's as it is her child.
For the record, at least turn the box around and show her the reasons why it was rated M, so she can better understand. In my experience, parents don't even know that games carry ratings, just like movies.
If fiction is your barometer for allowing an 11-year old to see content that is clearly inappropriate, at what point do you think it's OK to let your kids watch porn?CannibalCorpses said:...you are overreacting!
Let me put this as simply as i can...it's fiction. If you haven't taught your child the difference between fiction and reality then you are not a good parent. That isn't a statement about you but a statement to everyone who has children. Blaming real life violence on fictional violence is just an attempt to pass the blame of poor parenting onto someone else. Hiding children from fictional violence just makes real life violence far more traumatic...and let's face it, everyone ends up with real life violence at some point. If you haven't prepared your children for the real world then you are a fucking failure of a parent and should start pointing the finger at yourself rather than trying to blame everyone and everything else.
Hope that leaves no room for misinterpretation
"Oh, hey son, just watching a little fiction I see. Dinner is at 5."
I'm not saying that GTAV is comparable to porn, but it is clearly not age appropriate for an 11 year-old. I think there are varying degrees of what an M rated game means and who it's appropriate for. My oldest is 9 and I'd never let them play something like GTA V until they're at least 14, but there are probably certain games like zombie killing games that I might be more lax on. As a parent, I see a big difference between bloodying up the screen with zombies versus having my kid go into a virtual strip club, making it rain and/or performing fictionalized torture on someone.
Not all M rated games are inappropriate for tweens, but GTA V probably is. I think once your kids hit high school (age 14), if you think they're responsible, you can take the reins off a bit.
If all you did was express your concern then of course you didn't go too far. I did the same thing to my sister when my nephew asked for GTA(though he is much younger than 11. He just thinks it's a racing game).Jessabi said:
That said, I was playing M rated games and watching R rated movies when I was 11, and I turned out fine. I was a rather mature young man though.
Should an 11 year old be allowed to play GTA 5? probably not but its not your kid so its not your call I guess.
One thing that is relevant though
One thing that is relevant though
The thing about this is if his friends have it there's a pretty good chance he's already played it. If she didn't buy him the game it wouldn't stop him from playing the game, he just wouldn't be able to play it conveniently. If he can play it whenever he wants he'll get bored of it and in a month or two it'll be nothing special. If he has to go to his friend's house to play it and then he cant have it himself then it would be a bigger deal to him than it probably would be otherwise. I pretty much was that kid when I was like 12 or something, and I pretty much thought the only things that made games or movies good or fun was blood gore guts and killing people, and put all these retrospectively shitty games on a pedestal just because I didn't get to play them enough to get tired of them.Jessabi said:
So tell her explicitly what's in it. Mention the torture scenes, full frontal male nudity, hell, most of the worst stuff is on youtube.Jessabi said:
On the other hand, at least GTA is openly satirical. I'd say COD is probably more crass and has the potential to do more harm because it actually takes itself seriously. Post COD4 anyway.
I don't overly worry about kids playing violent games (I was one after all), but it is a bit concerning that the most mainstream and influential military games fetishise real-world violence, torture, black ops, etc in such a way. I'd be happier with a kid playing almost anything other than COD - Gears of War, GTA, Spec Ops, Bioshock, FEAR, whatever.
It's the parent's choice in the end though - once you've expressed your opinion and informed them as much as you can, there's not much else you can or should do. And it would be rather unfair for her to take the game away from him once he's started playing anyway..
Well, to answer it bluntly no, it's not an over reaction.Jessabi said:
HOWEVER, you should let go the feeling of being worried, your sibling has made the decision that the content is fine for their child to consume and that is their right to do so. We should never wrap kids up in 50 blankets shielding them from everything, we should offer them the proper answers to questions they pose and feed their thirst for knowledge. From my personal experience, at 12 years of age all males in my year level (year 7) had played Grand Theft Auto San Andreas, COD and Medal of Honor, and we all grew up fine. We would often be confused with a few things like, "what does ****** mean?" (born in Aus) "Why are they doing that?" "did this really happen" and we would all then go home and ask our parents and they would give us the meaning and the morality behind it all. From a very young age most kids know violence is bad, most kids either have an inkling about what sex is or a very decent understanding, and sometimes seeing something that you don't understand is a good thing. It forces you to find an answer to a question, and the quicker that you learn both the answer and the morality surrounding the topic in that situation, the quicker one will develop into a well adjusted person.
Violent media only causes damage when parents neglect to raise their children.
So make her aware. Tell her about the graphic torture scene. That seems to be the big deal breaker for most people.Jessabi said:
Not from what you've mentioned.
Or, you know, that the kid might be disturbed or something. I think you're assuming an awful lot out of convenience.krazykidd said:
It's not really misrepresented. The second part wasn't really relevant to the idea. But since we're going there, a parent thinking their kid can handle it because of lack of information is in no way indicative of either an informed decision or the capacity of the kid. It seems people are assuming that the parents are informed and knowledgeable about their kid despite the only info we have saying otherwise. Now, it's possible Jessabi isn't telling the truth (not saying she is), but we have absolutely no information to support that stance.TheKasp said:
The problem is, the argument isn't any better just because it's a blurrier line. The "I did it and I'm fine" argument is inane to begin with. Nobody's saying games are as bad as cigarettes, or even that they're bad (on here, anyway--apparently, video games are worse than guns, porn and pot in the eyes of some). The point is about the failure of the reasoning.Maximum Bert said:
No, it's not a "nowaday" thing. Games were blamed back in the 80s and 90s, and movies were a hot topic issue. Moreso than today.Adeptus Aspartem said:
An 11 year old is never going to make it to the lapdance mini game or horrific torture scenes... he's 11.
When I was 11 I got stuck roaming hopelessly in the world map of FF9 trying to find a place that I could have found if I had quite simply just walked forward for about 15 seconds.
Him and all his friends are putting the disc in, running around aimlessly stealing cars and running people over and they think they are playing GTA V and furthermore think that that they are having fun, too much fun to try anything other than what they are doing.
They are skipping every cut scene because what kind of kid wants to watch some boring foreigners talk for 5 minutes?
I don't think you or anyone else has anything to worry about, it'd be far worse if the kid was watching an adult play rather than playing the game himself - if he were watching an adult play he would actually see some of the more objectionable material that'll be far too hard for him to get to for reasons like attention span, focus, comprehension and ability.
When I was 11 I got stuck roaming hopelessly in the world map of FF9 trying to find a place that I could have found if I had quite simply just walked forward for about 15 seconds.
Him and all his friends are putting the disc in, running around aimlessly stealing cars and running people over and they think they are playing GTA V and furthermore think that that they are having fun, too much fun to try anything other than what they are doing.
They are skipping every cut scene because what kind of kid wants to watch some boring foreigners talk for 5 minutes?
I don't think you or anyone else has anything to worry about, it'd be far worse if the kid was watching an adult play rather than playing the game himself - if he were watching an adult play he would actually see some of the more objectionable material that'll be far too hard for him to get to for reasons like attention span, focus, comprehension and ability.
I didn't exactly appreciate being talked down to like I'm some sort of Monty Burns esq old man unaware those damned rapscallions could be doing something illicit at school either.gmaverick019 said:
But it seems to me that we just disagree about age and maturity. I don't think an 11 year old is old enough to properly process some of the things they'll see in games and movies. Will they see it anyway? Possibly. But there's a big difference between something they played a bit at a friends place and something they've put hours and hours into at home with their parents complicit approval. I'd also argue there's a pretty big difference between a cartoon squirrel that says naughty words and makes poop jokes to a scene in which the player is expected to deliberately and graphically torture someone.
One is about on par with Ren & Stimpy, the other is stuff I as an adult can have trouble with. At around 11 years old these kids probably haven't even hit puberty yet, they simply aren't old enough to be able to understand the implications of what they're seeing on screen. 15ish? Sure, if the kid seems smart I don't see why not. But for something as violent as the new GTA I can't in good conscience condone a child that young playing it, regardless of their comparative maturity.
Kids will be kids. They'll explore, they'll try new things and they'll do things they shouldn't, that's part of growing up. Meanwhile I'm of the apparently old fashioned belief that it's a parents responsibility to set guidelines and boundaries and if necessary to provide a safe haven away from any negative influences. Will children test those boundaries? Of course, but that doesn't mean you open the gates and just let em loose.
Oh trust me, I'm not prudish. I still play Morrowind with the full body mods. I think the US ratings system is absurd in the way it places more emphasis on entirely natural sexual content than rather unnatural violence.fenrizz said:
I'm all for equal opportunities nudity!
But nonetheless, people do tend to fixate upon it as the bad thing to end all bad things, so if the OP wants to encourage a relative to be more discerning about her gifts, that's a quick and messy way to do it.
Well I would say the argument is better if there is a blurry line because then people are open to discussion and argument just because there is an arbitrary ruling that 18 rated material is unsuitable for those under 18 dosent mean that it is actually unsuitable except in the eyes of the law which is just a system.Zachary Amaranth said:
There is a lot of evidence to suggest cigarettes are bad for your health, guns kill people (well people kill people but guns make it a lot easier). The I did it and im fine argument isnt really an argument its a statement you could play Russian roulette and be fine dosent make it any less dangerous but at the same time you wouldnt be wrong if you really did do it and were fine, saying I did it and was fine so you will be too is another thing entirely though and I think the problem is that people are implying that is indeed the case so yes in that case the reasoning is faulty but so is assuming that they wont be.
People take risks everyday is watching / playing something 18 rated when you are underage a huge risk to your development, health etc? people do silly things everyday no one bats an eyelid maybe the kid gets a bit scared but I doubt it I really cant see the violence in GTA shocking anybody its more funny than graphic and scary its to far removed from real life imo and as for the sex at 11 I think if anything they will find it comical (which I think a lot of over 18s do when playing GTA anyway).
The OP voiced their concerns and gave reasoning which is fine and definitely not overreacting going OMG no they should not be playing it is playing a touch to the more hysterical side. If it does effect them badly later on I would argue that they are on the impressionable side and would be effected by such material regardless of age anyway.
Oh and btw im not condoning letting children under 18 play 18 rated games but neither am I condemning it I just dont think a blanket ruling can cover every situation here and it should be handled on a case by case basis and if its wrong then I dont think the consequences will be too severe anyway in this case and next time a better decision can be made.
You see talk about this every once in a while. Not too long ago someone proposed making it a criminal offense to cheat on age ratings (didn't net much cheers, unsurprisingly). Teachers and the like are not concerned over 16-year-olds playing Mass Effect; it's the 10- and 11-year-olds telling GTA V is their favourite game of the season.
Yeah, not an overreaction. Sure, the kid won't become a killer or freak out or anything, and he'll play and see all kinds of things eventually anyway (fun fact: movies rated PG-13 have more violence in them than movies rated R, not as intense stuff but more destruction, beating, and shooting anyway), but there's a 99.99% chance he'll be exposed to lots of material he has no way of understanding, and that will affect the guy in one way or another. There's no easy answer to how long should one let kids be kids - unless one goes with "puberty".
Yeah, not an overreaction. Sure, the kid won't become a killer or freak out or anything, and he'll play and see all kinds of things eventually anyway (fun fact: movies rated PG-13 have more violence in them than movies rated R, not as intense stuff but more destruction, beating, and shooting anyway), but there's a 99.99% chance he'll be exposed to lots of material he has no way of understanding, and that will affect the guy in one way or another. There's no easy answer to how long should one let kids be kids - unless one goes with "puberty".
Blinders make a horse not get distracted. That's the sole reason they exist. Yes, I will put blinders on a kid to guide them. It isn't hard to not let an 11 year old know about torture. There is TONS of media without it in it. And he/she knows very little of the world. If my kid hears it from the park or something they are gonna ask me about it later being curious. I will tell him, I will not let him torture someone in GTA5. If I tell him about torture, the subject is dropped and life goes on. I let him play the game and now he has that experience swimming around in his head. Mob mentality isn't going to have me shove that experience at my 11 year old. He can go kill dragons in Skyrim in HD on the PC instead.TheKasp said:
Like me, you probably had loose structure growing up. Because I totally agree it isn't hard to find out if you are allowed to seek. I was allowed to get into pretty much anything I wanted to so long as my grandparents weren't around. They were my primary source of structure and they were around maybe 20 hours of the week. I got about another 40 hours or so from my mom but it was weaker. Grandpa was Army and my mom grew up on the barracks and was still rebelling against structure I think when I was little.
EDIT: I would not say "I turned out fine". I could be much better off if I had the proper structure to learn the world with. Did I survive? Yeah. Did it make me stronger? That is debatable as hell. There were MANY drawbacks.
So you have no problem with a kid playing an AO game right? It's just puppets playing with other puppets. As BakedSardine pointed out compare it to porn and say your OK with it if fiction vs. fantasy is truly what you believe. I am not going to expose a pre-puberty kid to porn deliberately. Especially, not just because his friends are doing it. A "realistic fantasy" is not the same as killing dragons.
No, every one of those kids comes from a home with little or no structure. They all got to sit in their room and fester on a plan for shit's sake. You know the place where they tend to find their video games AND their plans. That place is usually a cubby the kid would hide in and no adult succeeded in having him come out when you could just make him.
My perception of relaity is based on experience, as is yours. Kids have very little of that even at 11. They have no frame of reference only what they have heard and the little they have experienced. You got 11 years to learn the world, go. Good job, you did it! lol. Yeah right. GTA is going to add that experience just like any other media with the subject.
This kid is uncomfortable with the gun and clearly has some kind of perspective on reality that has him show respect to guns. You can't prove that it is directly because of video games. A kid that has only played Mario can easily exhibit the same respect the first time firing a rifle. I never claimed video games will make you homicidal. The press did that on behalf of parents everywhere. It isn't bad to control the media your kids consume. There is bad media for both kids and parents for different reasons. I love Penn and Teller. It isn't about having the kid flip out. It's not even about sex and violence, directly. It's about allowing what goes into his/her mind and when.
How mature is the 11 year old? Because as much as we'd like to think children are all little shitheads that are just clamoring for guns to blow their friends head off with, a few have the common sense to discern fact from satirical fiction.
Should've recommended Spec Ops: the Line.
Should've recommended Spec Ops: the Line.