Ammunition

[StorkV]

Really nice message is this one!

 

[RJ 17]

Why would we take notice of all the arguments that end abruptly and early due to someone admitting fault? There's literally nothing to see there after that point.

Because such occurances are, as I said, like finding a unicorn: worthy of everyone taking a moment to just sit back and stare in jaw-agape awe.

Some people learned from it, some people didn't, and I see no reason why its still going on would be any sort of claim.

Because it supports the point of the visual aid I previously provided.

You don't need reasonable people to learn from. I learn from assholes all the time. All I need is for them to be right and to have the smallest of abilities to convey their reasoning. I'm willing to do the footwork there and actually research their points.

Then you do the footwork for me: scour this site alone (just to keep things easy on yourself) and come back with the numbers on how many "discussions" actually end with an amicable agreement on one side or the other vs those that end up being two people with bullhorns shouting at one another until they just stop.

Quite simply: prove today's comic wrong. That is your homework assignment for the day.

But yes, I do find myself engaging with well meaning and well intentioned individuals on a somewhat regular basis. I find that exhibiting those qualities myself seems to result in similar treatment in return.

If only for a moment I wish I could live in the same enchanted internet world as you.

If (and this is 80% joke) you find that every argument you've ever been in has been heated and fruitless then you may want to consider that the single unifying commonality in all those debates is you. I hope that makes you chuckle and pause.

Oh you don't have to worry about me, my friend, I've long since given up trying to change people's minds on the internet. The other pic I could have posted instead of the one I went with was a little more offensive, containing the caption "Arguing over the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics: even if you win, you're still retarded."

But that gets even deeper into the philosophy of internet "debate" and I really don't feel like getting into. I certainly didn't intend to get into a conversation such as this for a Critical Miss comic.

As for the discussion we're currently having, I'm not saying that I never meet someone worth having a discussion with on the internet - this conversation is proof of that - but I stand by the notion that such conversations are the exception rather than the rule.

 

[shadowmagus]

I had to actually go and look up what was going on with Pillars of Eternity. I know exactly what part they were offended about and my only response is...

"What?"

I'm going to stop caring what other people think is bad about video games because obviously they are not as serious business to me as they are everyone else.

 

[Phasmal]

Actually a nice reminder that we have awesome stuff to be fighting over, and maybe we should just focus on the awesome stuff.

I don't have the energy for all the anger, and I'd hate for the things we all enjoy to be tainted by people who cant control their bile, no matter what `side` they fall on.
Nice comic.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Oddly enough, the "you're just trolling comments" always come from people who feel they're the butt of a particular joke.

Perhaps they should.
After all, comedy is irreverent, and being "offended" just means reacting to the irreverence of something one holds dear.

Everything else is just a matter of context: When, how, and to whom the joke is told.

...but I've never written a comic designed purely to annoy people.

Uh huh.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comicsandcosplay/comics/critical-miss/11537-WGDF

I wonder what the analogy of the "swarm of bees" refers to.
Maybe he's just a big fan of Nicholas Cage memes?

 

[Darth_Payn]

Quite possibly the smartest thing I'll read all day.

Hah, the "Can't wait to see this one on imgur with no credit" tag really slayed me. But what's the "certain other webcomic" that is generating all this apparent controversy I'm missing out on? Is it Erin Dies Alone? I didn't see anything particularly riling about that, so far...

You can apply it to any artistic expression. People will either see something in the intended message that offends them or project their own hang-ups on it just to be offended.

 

[Hyrist]

I...

Grey, Cory, how are you guys doing? Feeling down? You clarify that all of your comics are for laughs, but this one, I'm not laughing at. Kinda feel sad. Worried that you guys might be feeling a bit of burnout from it all, but I may be projecting.

Anyone else see the poor guy in the middle having witnessed his art torn to shreds?

I kinda feel more like the Erin in Erin dies Alone sometimes. Wanting to shut out the world and get back in touch with that feeling of childhood joy games used to bring.

Keep going at it guys. You do have at least one fan that's just going to take it at face value, just trying to find a bit of innocent enjoyment in life.

 

[Tarfeather]

Grey & Cory present the next episode of "Why be funny when you can just offend people?". Latest submission: Offend people who are offended.

 

[CaitSeith]

Absolutely great comic, Grey.

It takes one to know one.

 

[EvilRoy]

I really like this comic. Different direction than usual, but well done nonetheless.

As mentioned on twitter, that fact that some people don't get the joke makes it all the more sweeter

Certainly you try to make people laugh, and succeed fairly often for myself at least, but that doesn't really change the fact that you definitely target people or groups now and then. For instance, even though a lot of people had a good laugh at it, I don't know if you can claim that some of the Evelagon comics were anything but aimed directly one fandom.

I remember Grey saying that he makes fun of Evangelion because he's a fan of it at some point in the past. So technically he's part of the fandom he's mocking

Yeah, and I get that, but a bullet is still a bullet y'know? Its not like I'm coming in here trying to be a big bad "you're a hypocrite" douche bag - I was honestly just really confused and looking for a bit of an expansion on the topic. There's nothing wrong with being partisan and taking sides and making fun - shit, most nonserialized webcomics do this, and most successful ones do it a LOT. Its basically just part and parcel of the three to six panel non-story webcomic model. You take stances, you mock, you question.

I just couldn't help but wonder when I saw the comic, like, "this is your bread and butter dudes, why is it a problem?" I can get feeling for other artists when you see them get caught in the middle of a shitty situation, but it seems weird to approach it from a standpoint that makes it look like you don't like part of your own business model.

Edit to dodge double post.

I like Eva, but a lot of fans of it really need to take themselves less seriously.

I've honestly never encountered it myself. I wasn't even certain I spelled the name right, but I wanted to use an example that wouldn't get me shouted at for being this or that political group when I don't like talking politics on the net and it isn't related to the topic anyway. Now to take a totally political stance: Megas XLR was better anyway.

 

[The Wooster]

Oddly enough, the "you're just trolling comments" always come from people who feel they're the butt of a particular joke.

Perhaps they should.
After all, comedy is irreverent, and being "offended" just means reacting to the irreverence of something one holds dear.

Everything else is just a matter of context: When, how, and to whom the joke is told.

...but I've never written a comic designed purely to annoy people.

Uh huh.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comicsandcosplay/comics/critical-miss/11537-WGDF

I wonder what the analogy of the "swarm of bees" refers to.
Maybe he's just a big fan of Nicholas Cage memes?

A comic strip you don't like =/= a comic strip designed to offend you.

 

[Sleepy Sol]

My mind was blown.

...Ok, not really, but I really like this comic. Very truthful to me.

 

[Scars Unseen]

Grey & Cory present the next episode of "Why be funny when you can just offend people?". Latest submission: Offend people who are offended.

Did it work? (and I can't see why we can't have both, anyway)

A comic strip you don't like =/= a comic strip designed to offend you.

[citation needed]

 

[Lightknight]

Then you do the footwork for me: scour this site alone (just to keep things easy on yourself) and come back with the numbers on how many "discussions" actually end with an amicable agreement on one side or the other vs those that end up being two people with bullhorns shouting at one another until they just stop.

Quite simply: prove today's comic wrong. That is your homework assignment for the day.

So now your argument is that more debates devolve into fruitless bickering than not? That's not something I disagree with. I quite agree that more of the arguments that I see devolve than those that don't. However, I can still posit that we don't really notice how many debates end in only a few responses. The debates I see are likely only seen because they go on for longer than agreements. Some people, once proven wrong, won't even respond and so an argument that looks like it was nothing but bickering and just cuts off could also be a situation where that has happened.

However, our brains are hard wired to a sort of fight or flight response when confronted with being wrong:

https://hbr.org/2013/02/break-your-addiction-to-being/

From this article, I'd say my success has been when I succeed in listening with empathy. It isn't all the time, but I do try.

Regarding collecting that data somehow proving the comic wrong, it's not synonymous with today's comic. Today's comic is just discussing what it's like to see your artwork be made part of an argument between two loud groups. It isn't saying that all debates devolve into anything. It is calling anyone who argues over their work idiots, which is awfully presumptive if not arrogant of the author. But as with most things they say and do I assume it's a joke. Because that's what they do for a living and they're good at it.

If only for a moment I wish I could live in the same enchanted internet world as you.

It's a magical place full of high quality Oculus Rift cosplay porn and answers to all of your questions just waiting to be asked for.

Oh you don't have to worry about me, my friend, I've long since given up trying to change people's minds on the internet. The other pic I could have posted instead of the one I went with was a little more offensive, containing the caption "Arguing over the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics: even if you win, you're still retarded."

Thanks for making me feel bad for smiling.

I think I'd be willing to differentiate between arguing and debating. Perhaps the distinction between arguing and debating could be made regarding whether or not either side is willing to learn or accept that they're wrong. That being said, I have been in a heated debate that I would clearly call an argument but that eventually turned into a meaningful discussion after I figured out a novel way to describe the information I had and it clicked for them.

As for the discussion we're currently having, I'm not saying that I never meet someone worth having a discussion with on the internet - this conversation is proof of that - but I stand by the notion that such conversations are the exception rather than the rule.

Aww, shucks. You're pretty good at treating me a like a human being too...

 

[Schadrach]

That is why content creators (ones who actually make stuff) need to ignore outragists using words like "problematic" and "uncomfortable".

And of course all of the modern words accusing the creator of having certain unapproved thoughts.

The trolls are like the bogeyman, they only have power if you give it to them.

Hi, fellow cubehead. Any plans on how to deal with those pyramidal bastards? =)

Now I wanna know what this is referencing.

Any of the various "your game is offensive!" outrage mobs, and the counter mobs that form to oppose them.

Most recently Pillars of Eternity, of which I am a cubehead (though to be fair, I am generally anti-pyramid, unless someone's pyramiding about actual quality and not the thematic, conceptual, or political). Though I haven't attacked PoE aside from stating my disappointment at Obsidian for caving to pyramids. I was a backer, I thoroughly enjoy the game, plan on playing it most of this weekend (aside from food, sleep, and an online Pathfinder campaign).

I find that no place requires me to Google things more than the Escapist. This time it failed me. What's a Menist?

It's the new term for MRA

I've never heard one called that. Like, ever. Is there some particular corner where it's used?

I mean, I've heard MRA, men's rights advocate, maen's human rights advocate, men's advocate. I've heard particular subgroups and related groups called father's rights advocate, father's advocate, MGTOW, Redpiller, and a few others. Never heard any of them call themselves a menist before.

Case in point: GamerGate is apparently still a thing.

GamerGate is a testimony to some people not caring how tarry a brush you take to them.

 

[CaitSeith]

A comic strip you don't like =/= a comic strip designed to offend you.

And then there is the irony of the people telling to those who get offended from intentionally offensive material to grow a thicker skin. Internet: so messed up, you gotta love it!

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Shinji was one of the best characters in japanese animation

I don't understand how anyone can claim he isn't funny anymore

Yeah, and I get that, but a bullet is still a bullet y'know? Its not like I'm coming in here trying to be a big bad "you're a hypocrite" douche bag - I was honestly just really confused and looking for a bit of an expansion on the topic. There's nothing wrong with being partisan and taking sides and making fun - shit, most nonserialized webcomics do this, and most successful ones do it a LOT. Its basically just part and parcel of the three to six panel non-story webcomic model. You take stances, you mock, you question.

I just couldn't help but wonder when I saw the comic, like, "this is your bread and butter dudes, why is it a problem?" I can get feeling for other artists when you see them get caught in the middle of a shitty situation, but it seems weird to approach it from a standpoint that makes it look like you don't like part of your own business model.

I think the distinction made here is that this comic is speaking about getting mad about something and reining down a hellstorm of fury over it (or over someone else getting mad about it). Using someone's work as fuel for your war. It's not saying that you can't criticize or make jokes about of an artist's work (or a fanbase).

 

[ForumSafari]

I honestly can't remember the last time I was angry about something non work related but lol, did the baiting comics finally catch a fish you couldn't land? Diddums.

 

[Pinky's Brain]

Oh come now, don't be a Dobson ... when you willfully poke a hornet nest full of morons don't play the innocent bystander card. Not the first time this happened, although I'll admit it was a bit unexpected for the Eva comics ... so I'll forgive you for those (well except for the fact that they weren't very funny).

I guess I agree that people being trollable is in and of itself funny and that making fun of that fact is very subtly different from actual trolling. You will eventually find that a large part of your audience is trollable one way or another though. So if you keep repeating the pattern you eventually run out of audience, even if you didn't mean to troll.

As I said, don't be a Dobson.

PS. ammunition is a good metaphor ... the bullet manufacturer isn't shooting people and animals, but they did design them to do exactly that.

PPS. I'm honestly surprised you didn't do a PC gamer entitlement comic for Bloodborne.

 

[Drops a Sweet Katana]

So on point, it's scary. Great job guys!