Zontar said:
I guess you don't remember Battlefield 1's marketing outside of the initial trailer. It was sort of the reverse of Battlefield 5's, 1 opened with a great opening that wasn't hammered by the blunders afterwards (such as a limited edition that didn't even have a copy of the god damn game), where as 5 has had a massive blunder of an opener and it seems there's nothing they can do to save the game now.
None of which corresponds to your claim that the black guy on the front is meant to represent France.
I've yet to see any Woke media that was above a 5/10 at best.
Overwatch, Horizon Zero Dawn, Uncharted Lost Legacy, Last of Us, Heroes of the Storm, Breath of the Wild, Perfect Dark, etc.
As far as I can tell, they come under the definition you're using, and all of them got to the 7-9/10 range of scores (on average).
And I don't see how taking a property, aiming it at a completely new target demographic, telling the old audience to piss off, and having the entire raison d'etre be "it's the same old story, but this time it's all women" isn't going to be controversial.
-How was Ghostbusters targeted at a new demographic? The original film wasn't explicitly targeted at males.
-The audience was acting like children - I'd love to be able to tell arseholes to piss off as well. Might not be the best marketing strategy, but it's an understandable one.
-Them being women was never a marketing point. It was never expressed outside the film, and it's never expressed within the film.
Hell you're the first person outside of the media bubble I've ever seen be surprised that such an obvious controversy in the making was controversial.
Having a film with female leads shouldn't be controversial. I'm not surprised that it is (because that's par for the course these days), but it's an asinine train of logic.
You really don't realise how Amy Pascal ran things when she was in charge do you? I'd recommend Midnight's Edge's video series on the making of Ghostbusters and Spider Man to get a better picture, but suffice to say, they got woke and went broke.
How Amy Pascal runs things is irrelevant to what's within the movie itself - you avoided my question entirely.
Also, how is Sony "broke?" Last I checked it was still functioning.
Kotaku did nothing of the sort, not even sure why you brought it up.
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/12/the-story-behindmass-effect-andromedas-troubled-five-year-development/
BioWare's been going downhill for a long time, started when they had older staff members start to leave and they replaced them with progressive types for the writing staff.
Source needed.
Did not end well for the final product (imagine my shock, woke progressives don't write good stories, it's almost as if that's the reason they're reluctant to make their own when the market makes it clear someone else won't do it for them through market forces).
Still waiting on that source.
Andromeda was the final nail in the coffin, not the beginning of the end. BioWare Montreal shut down, Austin is dedicated to SWTOR updates, and Anthem is shockingly close to release given what's been revealed so far. The downward spiral has been going on since 2010, but damn did Andromeda really kill it (probably literally in the case of the Mass effect IP)
BioWare's already planning ME5. Whether ME5 happens is another matter, but the downfall of Andromeda had nothing to do with "progressives."
That's a part of it (though far from the only one). Really should not tell an overwhelmingly conservative audience who are pretty patriotic that instead of appreciating the country that made you a millionaire you're going to instead intentionally disrespect the anthem because of reasons that boil down to empty political platitudes that have been debunked so far and wide it requires active religious zealotry to pretend there's an argument to be had on just the issue of there even being an argument one could make about it (to say nothing of the cliffside uphill battle of actually making the point in a rational way that doesn't counter the hard facts).
Put simply, there's a reason why Vince McMahon took the opportunity to announce the return of the XFL as a proper football league.
So, if I kneel to acknowledge that blacks are over-represented in police killings, I'm "disrespecting the anthem."
...yeah, I don't "get" sports. 0_0
No argument needs to be made about the state of the Trek and Wars IPs in the wake of Abrams putting his hands on them, that goes without saying.
What about the Kelvinverse was "woke?"
Also, Star Trek is pretty "woke" already.
And I don't know what you think the situation is, but the latest Star Wars movie? It lost 80 million dollars.
Solo? What was "woke" about it?
Also, the downfall of Solo can be attributed to a number of factors, including:
-Last Jedi backlash (which is about the only thing that approaches being "woke," as asinine as that is)
-Proximity to Last Jedi (mere months rather than the previous 1 year gap)
-Terrible marketing
-A nightmare of a production schedule (that was well known before the film was released)
-Close proximity to Infinity War and Deadpool
The latest Star Trek movie? 100 million.
Again, what was "woke?" about Beyond? Sulu being gay? You mean that "blink and you'll miss it scene where he's with a guy?" Or is it because Jaylah isn't "alien of the week that Kirk employs 'diplomacy' on?
Also, the downfall of Beyond is harder to quantify, but it's generally acknowledged that it sufferred from poor marketing (not to mention awareness at all), plus a sense of burnout with the franchise. If anything, people have criticized the Kelvinverse for not dealing with complex themes, not for doing so (again, more "wokeness")
That's not a discussion on how the movies before each of those severely under-performed (and how in real lines of work that's still a failure no matter how much money one makes), these movies have reached the point of flat out losing massive sums of money, with virtually no hype for future projects.
While it's true that Beyond and Solo underperformed, I've never seen anyone attribute that to "wokeness."
No one is hyped for STD's second season
Go on Reddit, you'd be surprised.
Also, what was "woke" about Star Trek Discovery? I mean, I've seen the usual "casting minorities in lead roles, white genocide!" crap, but what in the show is actually "woke" (beyond the normal Star Trek standard)
or the hypothetical 4th Star Trek movie perhaps maybe (hell they've lost their two leads),
Again, what's "woke" about the Kelvinverse?
Again, the Kelvinverse has been criticized for its lack of themes, not abundance of them.
no one is hyped for Star Wars 9,
If you say so.
everyone alredy hates Star Wars Resistance to the point it's Dead on Arrival (though the 10PM sunday timeslot assured that anyway),
And again, what's "woke" about Resistance?
Not that I'm interested in Resistance either, but the reasons I've seen cited for it (some of which include my own) basically boil down to the animation style, the perceived pandering to a younger demographic, and lack of interest in this time period (or at least the Resistance itself). I haven't seen anyone cite "it's pushing an agenda."
Though one of the pilots is female, and Phasma's in it (I think), so...yeah, it's "woke" I guess.
And you can choose to actually try and make an argument that doesn't boil down to at best strawmen.
I could say the same to you. All you've done is make claims about things being "woke," which have failed for all sorts of different reasons.
The trailer looked like hot garbage, not one person has managed to argue against that (hell no one seems to even be trying to defend it outside of progressive youtubers and gaming rags that have to do so by ideological obligation),
You might want to look in the mirror before you talk about "ideological obligation."
Also, the trailer looking like garbage is down to a lot of things. You might be able to point it as being "woke" (female character), but that's the tip of the iceberg. Apparently EA learnt their lesson beecause the difference between the original trailer and subsequent ones are like night and day, but everyone's worked up about the option of playing as females in multiplayer.
The horror. The horror.
and the response by the company to the completely predictable response has been well outside of the scope of what is professional or acceptable.
Telling people "if you don't like it, don't buy it?"
Frankly, I'd like to see more of that (and I'm not just talking about games).
Also, the behaviour of "fans" is what goes beyond "acceptable." Last I checked, companies didn't send out death threats or get people to leave social media through harassment.
We where told we can either accept their BS lines about why it's "necessary", or not buy the game, and oh look, now a franchise that was set to surpass Call of Duty has now fallen to the point it probably won't even be in 2nd place for shooters this year.
I think it's quite dubious to claim that Battlefield was set to surpass CoD because of Battlefield 1, when it was going up against Infinite Warfare (let me guess, that was "woke" as well).
Also, nothing surpasses CoD, like, ever (in terms of sales). Fallout 76 and Red Dead Redemption are trailing behind it as well - that doesn't mean much outside of CoD still being a juggernaut.
Got Woke, Went Broke, every time.
Assuming that's true, why didn't Blizzard go broke with Overwatch? Why didn't Naughty Dog go broke with Lost Legacy and/or Last of Us? Why didn't Guerilla go broke with Horizon Zero Dawn? Why didn't Rare go broke with Perfect Dark?
altnameJag said:
Yeah, but they didn't put them prominently in their marketing material, so COD:WW2 wasn't as ahistorical.
There's a key difference between the two in that a lot of WWII's marketing showed singleplayer. In contrast, nearly all of BF5's marketing has been multiplayer.
Zontar said:
The reason is probably because COD:WW2 advertised itself well instead of opening up with one of the worst video game trailers of all time. As much as we like to make fuck of these games for trying to shove in women and minorities into conflicts that either didn't have them or had them in such small numbers that it's barely worth a mention (if even that), it's not that which killed Battlefield 5, it's the horrendous marketing and the pants-on-head level response from the company to the reception. How did we go from the reveal trailer for Battlefield 1 to what we got for Battlefield 5 anyway? That seems impossible. They both had to have been outsourced to different companies, in different countries, one of which didn't speak the same language as DICE, that's the only way I can think that level of collapse in quality is possible.
So basically you're claiming that the lack of pre-orders/hype for BF5 is down more to do with the marketing rather than the insertion of a female option in multiplayer.
So much for "get woke go broke."