And the Most-Pirated Game of 2010 Is...

[secretsantaone]

Pirating has nowhere near the effect people like to claim it has.

Get over it.

 

[IamQ]

Dante's Inferno is the most pirated 360 game? Um...well that was...random? Seriously, was that game so big on the Xbox community, that they just had to have it?

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

OT: Notice that none of the games in the top 5 for any of the systems has been a financial failure, in any sense of the word. One of these days, people are going to realize that while there may be some negative impact from piracy, it's nothing compared to what the various affected industries claim it is. And people actually believe that used sales are as bad as or worse than the imaginary bugaboo of piracy? We really need to quit buying industry spin. As consumers, the industry is not our friend. No industry is.

While it's undoubtedly true that the video game industry isn't in this for hugs and pats on the back, that doesn't necessarily make them the enemy. Besides, as the article states, the people who are negatively effected by the theft of their product aren't the ceo's. It's the people who spent two to five years building something for you to enjoy. And at the end of the day, even if you don't think that your couple of dollars matter, you can at least be a decent human being and show your appreciation for their hard work by paying for the product like an adult.

Actually, I do pay for my product. Between Steam sales and the stuff I find in thrift shops and record stores, I have no reason to pirate games, since I can afford it when I'm paying $10 or less a pop. However, most people can't afford to pay full price, and I can see situations where paying the sale price isn't an option; example, most of the games that were on the above list, which just don't go on decent sale prices. Forgetting for the moment whether there's any justification for piracy or not, my point was that these piracy figures, when compared to the sales figures for the games in question, pretty much prove that the piracy "problem" is nothing but spin from the likes of Bobby Kotick and the RIAA. The industry is our enemy in the sense that, in a capitalist system, there is a constant struggle between the producers and the consumers. The producers want to get as much money as they can out of the consumers, while the consumers want their money to go as far as possible. This whole piracy mess is an attempt from certain content producers to squeeze more money from the consumers.

As for your statement that it's the devs who suffer, care to show any sources? Because my understanding is that they get paid before the first unit is even shipped, and anything tied to sales is a bonus, not part of their regular paycheck. Or what did you think those multi-million dollar budgets went to? No, if the devs are hurt at all by this, it's because the CEOs, in an attempt to make the shareholders happy, screwed them over as well as the consumers, as was the case with the mess between Activision and Infinity Ward.

Mods: I'm not advocating piracy, simply stating that it's a much more minor problem than the industry leads us to believe, and that I'm sick of them screwing over the customer in the name of protecting him, as is the case both with the piracy debate and the recent "buying used games is the same as pirating them" lie.

I think you will find that if a developer's game doesn't sell very well, then they are not likely to continue being funded for future products. So, yes. It hurts the developer.

And how exactly are consumers being screwed in regards to this industry? Games that have budgets of many millions of dollars more than they would have had twenty years ago currently cost ten dollars more than they would have twenty years ago. That seems pretty reasonable to me.

Also, I don't think that you will find any sane argument that says that used game sales is on an ethical level with piracy, but I think it's a pretty fair assessment that used game sales costs the industry about as much in sales revenue as piracy does.

Funny, every game on that top 5 list sold well. I doubt those developers are likely to have trouble getting funding for their next project. As for how customers are getting screwed over, well, there's the price hike that you mentioned -- I'm sorry, a $10 hike over something that is already ridiculous is, well, ridiculous. Besides that, we have DRM and crap like project $10, which are attempts at moneygrubbing that do little to prevent actual piracy or used sales.

Finally, if used games cost the industry as much in revenue as piracy does, thank you for proving my point that piracy is irrelevant. People buy used games because they can't afford new -- for example, I don't pay full price for my games, and outside of Steam sales, cheap used games are all I can afford. The industry certainly didn't lose any sales to anything I've bought used, although they would get more out of me if they would drop the price of their product to a reasonable level.

 

[Bobzer77]

It's true that not every download is a lost sale, but I'm going to carry on and make the same tired arguments based on that point regardless.

Edit and emphasis mine. People are well aware of the issue by now, do we really need to see the subject in half the articles the Escapist puts out?

I wasn't aware that pointing out "It must really suck to be a developer of a game that was very important to the survival of your studio [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102027-Remedy-Blames-Stiff-Competition-for-Poor-Alan-Wake-Sales] - and to see millions of people downloading and playing it for free" counted as an argument. It's an observation, and one that's very relevant to the subject at hand. I see no reason to complain.

In my opinion I think Alan Wake underperformed because it was terrible rather than from piracy, although a few of my friends really love it.

Also I think the whole "not every download is a lost sale" is actually more true than lots of people are willing to admit. I'ts kind of like walking through a supermarket and seeing them give away free cookies as samples, am I going to eat those free cookies? Definitely, am I going to buy more? Probably not. (Also I should probably point out that while that anecdote did make me sound a bit like a pirate, I'm not).

While I'm on the subject, I also think that people are underestimating the size of the P.C market. This may also account for why piracy figures are higher on PC along with the fact that it's so much easier. I mean have we ever gotten any sales figures from Valve or D2D or the E.A Store?

I never buy P.C games at retail anymore and even though I've spent over ?500 on PC games alone this year I probably don't even count as a sale in the eyes of publishers because most digital sales statistics aren't public.

 

[imperialreign]

Just a random thought from one in the PC community . . .

Has it occured to the devs to take note that piracy has gone up nearly double since the move away from releasing solidly playable demos before a game's release?

Demos had their place in the market. Freeware, usually only the first mission or some other type of "crippled" form of the beginning of the game. It let players try the game out and see if not only their hardware can run it, but if the gameplay/story were entertaining enough for them to spend their money on the release . . . at also built up hype for a title too. Last big playable demo (that I can remember) was for Crysis.

Whatever happened to the demos, devs? Or are you that afraid your WIP is such a big heaping pile of tripe that you don't want to risk releasing a demo for fear that it'll turn everyone away from how "cookie-cutter" and similar your title is to everything else already on the market?

 

[OANST]

Pirating has nowhere near the effect people like to claim it has.

Get over it.

Maybe not. But it does cost them money, and it is unethical.

 

[soapyshooter]

What about PS3?

 

[Woodsey]

Look at how much higher the rate of piracy is on PC. Entitled geeks will steal anything if they feel they deserve it.

Was the implication meant to be that 360 gamers are somehow much "cooler", or did it just come out that way by mistake?

I guarantee you this: the first time you ever put blood, sweat and tears into making something good, put it up for sale, then see it stolen by 95% of the people who claim to be your fans, your views on piracy will harden. It's literally a visceral shock to realize just how blindly two-faced a lot of these people are, mainly IMO because they have no idea what it means to produce something rather than just consume.

Cheers

Colin

I'm going to wheel you out every time a piracy thread pops up and half of the Escapist population defends it.

 

[veloper]

I guarantee you this: the first time you ever put blood, sweat and tears into making something good, put it up for sale, then see it stolen by 95% of the people who claim to be your fans, your views on piracy will harden. It's literally a visceral shock to realize just how blindly two-faced a lot of these people are, mainly IMO because they have no idea what it means to produce something rather than just consume.

Cheers

Colin

Each of those games sold a couple million copies on PC too.

Shitting on your fans, because unrelated people don't give you money, is the most retarded thing anyone working in an entertainment industry can do.

 

[OANST]

I guarantee you this: the first time you ever put blood, sweat and tears into making something good, put it up for sale, then see it stolen by 95% of the people who claim to be your fans, your views on piracy will harden. It's literally a visceral shock to realize just how blindly two-faced a lot of these people are, mainly IMO because they have no idea what it means to produce something rather than just consume.

Cheers

Colin

Each of those games sold a couple million copies on PC too.

Shitting on your fans, because unrelated people don't give you money, is the most retarded thing anyone working in an entertainment industry can do.

Who got shat on?

 

[maantren]

Those of you saying that piracy is a minor problem with few real effects should remember that there are the superstar development teams who make high-end AAA+ titles, and then there's everybody else. An extremely small number of games account for most of the budgets AND profits in the game industry: clearly something like Black Ops makes crazy money for Activision despite the rampant piracy of it. Below that level, though, things are very different, and most dev teams are struggling to survive. Nothing compares to the feeling of making a smallish game that gets great reviews, has everybody buzzing... then realizing that despite this it's being stolen left right and centre by your 'fans', and the return on your investment is so low that you probably won't make payroll.

I agree there's a certain over-selling of piracy from some (large, corporate) quarters, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a plague with very real effects.

Cheers

Colin

 

[veloper]

I guarantee you this: the first time you ever put blood, sweat and tears into making something good, put it up for sale, then see it stolen by 95% of the people who claim to be your fans, your views on piracy will harden. It's literally a visceral shock to realize just how blindly two-faced a lot of these people are, mainly IMO because they have no idea what it means to produce something rather than just consume.

Cheers

Colin

Each of those games sold a couple million copies on PC too.

Shitting on your fans, because unrelated people don't give you money, is the most retarded thing anyone working in an entertainment industry can do.

Who got shat on?

Everyone who buys the game and has to deal with the flaws of bad port or has to jump through hoops to not to get locked out by the DRM.

 

[maantren]

I guarantee you this: the first time you ever put blood, sweat and tears into making something good, put it up for sale, then see it stolen by 95% of the people who claim to be your fans, your views on piracy will harden. It's literally a visceral shock to realize just how blindly two-faced a lot of these people are, mainly IMO because they have no idea what it means to produce something rather than just consume.

Cheers

Colin

Each of those games sold a couple million copies on PC too.

Shitting on your fans, because unrelated people don't give you money, is the most retarded thing anyone working in an entertainment industry can do.

I refer you to my above post, sir. The games industry is more than high-end AAA+ games that sell millions of copies. And I stand by my argument that if you get dozens of hours of pleasure out of someone's creative work, but refuse to pay the (usually quite reasonable) price they're asking in return, there's a certain cognitive dissonance in calling yourself a 'fan'...

Cheers

Colin

 

[OANST]

OT: Notice that none of the games in the top 5 for any of the systems has been a financial failure, in any sense of the word. One of these days, people are going to realize that while there may be some negative impact from piracy, it's nothing compared to what the various affected industries claim it is. And people actually believe that used sales are as bad as or worse than the imaginary bugaboo of piracy? We really need to quit buying industry spin. As consumers, the industry is not our friend. No industry is.

While it's undoubtedly true that the video game industry isn't in this for hugs and pats on the back, that doesn't necessarily make them the enemy. Besides, as the article states, the people who are negatively effected by the theft of their product aren't the ceo's. It's the people who spent two to five years building something for you to enjoy. And at the end of the day, even if you don't think that your couple of dollars matter, you can at least be a decent human being and show your appreciation for their hard work by paying for the product like an adult.

Actually, I do pay for my product. Between Steam sales and the stuff I find in thrift shops and record stores, I have no reason to pirate games, since I can afford it when I'm paying $10 or less a pop. However, most people can't afford to pay full price, and I can see situations where paying the sale price isn't an option; example, most of the games that were on the above list, which just don't go on decent sale prices. Forgetting for the moment whether there's any justification for piracy or not, my point was that these piracy figures, when compared to the sales figures for the games in question, pretty much prove that the piracy "problem" is nothing but spin from the likes of Bobby Kotick and the RIAA. The industry is our enemy in the sense that, in a capitalist system, there is a constant struggle between the producers and the consumers. The producers want to get as much money as they can out of the consumers, while the consumers want their money to go as far as possible. This whole piracy mess is an attempt from certain content producers to squeeze more money from the consumers.

As for your statement that it's the devs who suffer, care to show any sources? Because my understanding is that they get paid before the first unit is even shipped, and anything tied to sales is a bonus, not part of their regular paycheck. Or what did you think those multi-million dollar budgets went to? No, if the devs are hurt at all by this, it's because the CEOs, in an attempt to make the shareholders happy, screwed them over as well as the consumers, as was the case with the mess between Activision and Infinity Ward.

Mods: I'm not advocating piracy, simply stating that it's a much more minor problem than the industry leads us to believe, and that I'm sick of them screwing over the customer in the name of protecting him, as is the case both with the piracy debate and the recent "buying used games is the same as pirating them" lie.

I think you will find that if a developer's game doesn't sell very well, then they are not likely to continue being funded for future products. So, yes. It hurts the developer.

And how exactly are consumers being screwed in regards to this industry? Games that have budgets of many millions of dollars more than they would have had twenty years ago currently cost ten dollars more than they would have twenty years ago. That seems pretty reasonable to me.

Also, I don't think that you will find any sane argument that says that used game sales is on an ethical level with piracy, but I think it's a pretty fair assessment that used game sales costs the industry about as much in sales revenue as piracy does.

Funny, every game on that top 5 list sold well. I doubt those developers are likely to have trouble getting funding for their next project. As for how customers are getting screwed over, well, there's the price hike that you mentioned -- I'm sorry, a $10 hike over something that is already ridiculous is, well, ridiculous. Besides that, we have DRM and crap like project $10, which are attempts at moneygrubbing that do little to prevent actual piracy or used sales.

Finally, if used games cost the industry as much in revenue as piracy does, thank you for proving my point that piracy is irrelevant. People buy used games because they can't afford new -- for example, I don't pay full price for my games, and outside of Steam sales, cheap used games are all I can afford. The industry certainly didn't lose any sales to anything I've bought used, although they would get more out of me if they would drop the price of their product to a reasonable level.

Well, that's just not true. Alan Wake, for instance, did not sell particularly well, and they obviously have had trouble getting funding for their next game. And you can't honestly tell me that you think fifty to sixty dollars is an exorbitant price for something that a group of people spent years meticulously crafting. Or maybe you can. Maybe you are that selfish. I don't know.

If used game sales and piracy cost the industry roughly the same amount as each other, well, that's double the loss of sales. I'm sure that if you put your mind to it you can see why they might not like that. And yes, they are trying new things that are not working. But doesn't it tell you something that these companies are spending millions of dollars developing drm, and marketing their new strategies, all the while pissing off consumers? They do this because piracy and used game sales is a problem for them. It costs them money.

 

[pdgeorge]

Has it occured to the devs to take note that piracy has gone up nearly double since the move away from releasing solidly playable demos before a game's release?

I agree with this.
I only play on my ps3 and honestly don't like pirating games (I play games for 100%, you don't feel as strong a sense of accomplishment if the game was stolen in the first place) but it's a bit scary buying games sometimes.

A game can be crap, but have a brilliant marketing leading up to it, it's hard to tell the differences.

Dante's Inferno: Looked awesome, massive advertising for it, but then when I got it, I hit platinum trophy in under 24 hours... somewhat of a massive let down.
Black Ops was another perfect example. Everything I'd seen about it before release made me think "oh! This game will actually be about Black Ops missions and not just the same thing I see in all the other games!" Then I play it... and there was next to nothing about it that was 'black ops' in the slightest. You were just a standard soldier, moving your way from the outer-points of the base to the inner points killing everything in your way and setting off every alarm too.

Sadly... for both of those games, I bought the best collectors edition I could (death edition and prestige edition respectively) only to be let down
That's the sort of thing that shakes a persons resolve to avoid piracy, especially when paying $400(AU) in total for both of them

 

[veloper]

I guarantee you this: the first time you ever put blood, sweat and tears into making something good, put it up for sale, then see it stolen by 95% of the people who claim to be your fans, your views on piracy will harden. It's literally a visceral shock to realize just how blindly two-faced a lot of these people are, mainly IMO because they have no idea what it means to produce something rather than just consume.

Cheers

Colin

Each of those games sold a couple million copies on PC too.

Shitting on your fans, because unrelated people don't give you money, is the most retarded thing anyone working in an entertainment industry can do.

I refer you to my above post, sir. The games industry is more than high-end AAA+ games that sell millions of copies. And I stand by my argument that if you get dozens of hours of pleasure out of someone's creative work, but refuse to pay the (usually quite reasonable) price they're asking in return, there's a certain cognitive dissonance in calling yourself a 'fan'...

Cheers

Colin

The people who pirate the game are never fans. Fans are called fans because they fanaticly support you.

Calling out everyone who plays the pc game and making no distinction between pirates and people who bought the game just makes no sense.

 

[Nazz3]

Ah, another good year playing free games. Saved a lot of money. Still had to waste 70 euros on few games though.

What about PS3?

Theres no piracy on it. I think you could pirate some games for it for a while with the jailbreak thing but im not sure if it works anymore.

 

[maantren]

I guarantee you this: the first time you ever put blood, sweat and tears into making something good, put it up for sale, then see it stolen by 95% of the people who claim to be your fans, your views on piracy will harden. It's literally a visceral shock to realize just how blindly two-faced a lot of these people are, mainly IMO because they have no idea what it means to produce something rather than just consume.

Cheers

Colin

Each of those games sold a couple million copies on PC too.

Shitting on your fans, because unrelated people don't give you money, is the most retarded thing anyone working in an entertainment industry can do.

I refer you to my above post, sir. The games industry is more than high-end AAA+ games that sell millions of copies. And I stand by my argument that if you get dozens of hours of pleasure out of someone's creative work, but refuse to pay the (usually quite reasonable) price they're asking in return, there's a certain cognitive dissonance in calling yourself a 'fan'...

Cheers

Colin

The people who pirate the game are never fans. Fans are called fans because they fanaticly support you.

Calling out everyone who plays the pc game and making no distinction between pirates and people who bought the game just makes no sense.

Then we agree entirely - 'fans' who steal from you aren't fans at all. I should have been clearer in my earlier post.

Cheers

Colin

 

[DSK-]

Black Ops isn't worth pirating, despite not condoning it. I've had 3 different issues with it (besides the normal stuttering/poor performance in multiplayer) in the past week.

That's what I thought when I read this. Yes, I am full of hate