Angry Joe's interview with Major Nelson

[PoolCleaningRobot]

This is almost too depressing to watch. Major Nelson obviously loves this console but he doesn't know how to defend it's limitations or explain its negatives with a straight answer and no positive spin. I think the cloud sharing could have sold consoles if it wasn't for the 24 hour check ins. If they just made so that authentication via a game disk was possible they wouldn't be in this shit.

If made adding games to cloud optional so a non-cloud game could be disk authenticated then people wouldn't be able to take advantage of their system and people would be able to play their games offline. There. I solved Microsoft's problem. Why aren't I making consoles?

 

[J Tyran]

That is a great feature but the problem is that its not in a vacuum and comes packaged with all the other problems...

And I won't argue with you. I just think there are some neat features there, that people are immediately ruling out, just because they're coming from "the seed of all evil" Microsoft.

I would love it if Steam had a feature like this, I have a huge Steam library but none of my family can take advantage of it. It caused a bit of ill feeling in the family with my Sister when she asked if my Nephew could use my Steam account, I had to tell her no because I didn't trust them to keep my valuable Steam account secure. I would have also had to remove my billing details and either deactivate two step verification or give him my e-mail login too, none of which was going to happen. He had a couple of F2P MMO accounts stolen in the past because he trusted people to "level up his char", her PC is often a mess and full of junkware and spyware that they always download as well. My Sister took it funny because she thought I didn't trust him to not steal the account and was making excuses, it's also a bit insulting to accuse your family of being useless and I felt bad about it.

If Steam could do what Microsoft plan to do with the Xbone it would be great, he could have his own account and login but play games from my library. My account wouldn't be exposed to extra risk and all my saves and billing details would be safe too.

 

[barbzilla]

I don't approve of what Microsoft is doing with Xbone but I can't help but to try and slap people with a little common sense when they run to Steam instead.

Sure, Steam has sales but when it comes to the DRM, Steam isn't that different. Where physical copies are concerned, Steam is worse. That's all I am saying.

I didn't say that Steam is a leader in the fight against DRM, in fact I agree that they are pretty DRM heavy. However, when you look at PC games, with the exception of a handful of major releases in the past 10 years, none of them have been DRM free, and many of them have had crippling DRM. Steam just found a way to make that DRM palatable. Is it better than no DRM, not by a long shot, is anyone likely to get a DRM free game on the PC (short of Witcher series or indies), I highly doubt it. So to protest what MSFT is doing, they are switching to a system that isn't likely to change with the new console generation. At least the ones who don't want to go to sony are, others are going to Sony or Nintendo. I say more power to them.

It all comes down to the vote with your wallet thing, which gamers in general are horrible at doing (for the most part).

 

[Silly Hats]

Seriously though, this console would absolutely chew up my internet allowance. I mean I need to rely on hard copies of PC games, I'm not sure how I feel about such a digital/cloud based system, considering that xbones would still have hard copies. The future is going to be expensive and looking like everyone will have to have a gooooood Internet plan.

Also, using a mobile phone to use the Xbone. Man, that phone bill would be insane.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

To be fair, he's given some straight answers in regards to playing games offline after the life of the console and some other things, but generally what he seems to not realise is that embracing the future isn't doing shit for the consumers. Ok, a nice share function, and a giving function. We have that to a lesser extent with physical games. But the rest of it, not being able to play offline after 24hrs, the restrictive used games system, all of that, is straight disadvantage, and no-one's in any better a position for having bought the console than they would be without this crap that's trying to sell itself as the new wave.

 

[WeepingAngels]

I don't approve of what Microsoft is doing with Xbone but I can't help but to try and slap people with a little common sense when they run to Steam instead.

Sure, Steam has sales but when it comes to the DRM, Steam isn't that different. Where physical copies are concerned, Steam is worse. That's all I am saying.

I didn't say that Steam is a leader in the fight against DRM, in fact I agree that they are pretty DRM heavy. However, when you look at PC games, with the exception of a handful of major releases in the past 10 years, none of them have been DRM free, and many of them have had crippling DRM. Steam just found a way to make that DRM palatable. Is it better than no DRM, not by a long shot, is anyone likely to get a DRM free game on the PC (short of Witcher series or indies), I highly doubt it. So to protest what MSFT is doing, they are switching to a system that isn't likely to change with the new console generation. At least the ones who don't want to go to sony are, others are going to Sony or Nintendo. I say more power to them.

It all comes down to the vote with your wallet thing, which gamers in general are horrible at doing (for the most part).

Just because Steam has been doing it longer doesn't make it better. I do use Steam and I won't buy the Xbone but you won't hear me saying "PC for the win" or anything similar because it seems stupid to me to run from Microsoft's DRM straight to PC.

People going to Sony and Nintendo, great. People going to PC are just trading DRM heavy for DRM heavy.

 

[Dryk]

People going to Sony and Nintendo, great. People going to PC are just trading DRM heavy for DRM heavy.

People can do just fine playing DRM-free games on PC, they will miss out on a lot but there's still a ton to play.

 

[J Tyran]

Also, using a mobile phone to use the Xbone. Man, that phone bill would be insane.

Tethering should have been a logical answer for the people that said they might want to travel with their Xbone or for when people have temporary problems with the landline broadband and need to do the 24hr check in, I do not know why it was such a revelation. However tethering is all well and good for people with contracts, no hints on how much bandwidth this daily check in uses so PAYG users could be out of luck even with that.

Thats just a check in, I bet the Xbone will need patches all the time just like this gen so even people with service plans could end up out of luck too. Data plans are only going to get more and more expensive from now on anyway, not until the technology changes a lot and LTE-A is not going to make any difference and it won't be until we get "real" 4G or 5G as it will probably be called until we start to get prices back on track.

People going to Sony and Nintendo, great. People going to PC are just trading DRM heavy for DRM heavy.

Because for the most part PC DRM like Steam isn't that bad, sure it might be on the used games perspective but in general its ok with offline modes and the fact that does have some benefits which make it a bit more palatable. The used games bit is cancelled out by the fact that you buy the games new from digital distribution more cheaply than you can get used copies of console games from ripoff places like Game.

 

[Sarge034]

To the people bashing on Nelson: Come on guys, he's obviously a PR guy. He's PAID to do what he does. Of course he's not some tech specialist or one of the dev team members. He's there to basically read from a script as much as possible. Don't blame the middle man. Blame Microsoft/the ones in charge.

You do know he's the director of programming for xbox live right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Hryb

Anyway, it doesn't surprise me he is dancing around the questions. At this point MS's plan is to stall and wait for the initial sale numbers of the Xbone to indicate if they actually have to address these problems.

 

[Frostbite3789]

EDIT: Basically MS have seen their future, and their future is going to be Steam...

...and, well, it's a not so bad...

The 24 hour check in or all your games go dead is the big sticking point. Steam doesn't have this. And Steam still has server problems despite being in the digital distribution game for far longer than anyone else at this point. MS has server problems for more than 24 hours, your entire library, disc based or otherwise is boned. Doesn't matter if you have the best fiber based internet out there. That's what people seem not to be getting, for everyone it isn't up to your internet. It's how reliable do you think their servers will be.

And just remember this, PSN was targeted for way less and taken down for three weeks. You think parts of Anon won't be all over this? Really?

 

[Frostbite3789]

I don't approve of what Microsoft is doing with Xbone but I can't help but to try and slap people with a little common sense when they run to Steam instead.

Sure, Steam has sales but when it comes to the DRM, Steam isn't that different. Where physical copies are concerned, Steam is worse. That's all I am saying.

Point to me where Steam requires me to go online every 24 hours. Please, by all means, tell me how it's the same or worse than the XbOne. Or every three weeks. Or every two months. Tell me when Steam does an online check. I want to say it's you have to be online once every year, if there is an online check at all.

MS servers go down for 24 hours, so does your entire gaming library on that console. Steam goes down for 24 hours? You can't do multiplayer that requires Steamworks. Not to mention PC has other methods of playing games. It's not like your entire PC gaming library is locked up.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

I started out hating Joe back in the day... now I feel nothing but respect for him.

I started out despising Microsoft, then I got to trust them, then I got to rely on them, now I am somewhere in the twilight zone of still depending on them in my daily life but questioning each and every other moves. It sure puts a strain on our relationship, and it keeps my shrink in business.


One bit i find to be very interesting, as it confirms my/our thoughts on why this slow-ass regional roll-out isn't going to speed up anytime soon:

10:50 - "...but there's a lot of things we have to do first, to make sure we're in local compliance to laws" (...)

So, yeah, when you stop just selling and dealing games, and feel the need to go multimedia and TV and whatnot, complications are a given. Still, with no apparent DVR function implemented and no other 'great things' announced, Microsoft seems to be in a rather familiar position of throwing something raw out into the market, only to watch it mature - or rot - when exposed to real life and the harsh scrutiny of friends and fans and foes alike.

I am not happy with this. Sure, it gives Sony a free boost in sympathies and potential sales, but when interpreted as a symptom, a sign of things to come and a sign of things in the 'done deal' stage behind the scenes already, I am not a happy camper.

Larry Hryb is one smooth son of a gun. Is he with Scientology? He looks and sounds well clear to me.

 

[Chester Rabbit]

At first this starts out pretty good but then once Joe gets to the always online questions that?s when Nelson there starts tying himself into the same knot that everyone at Microsoft has been since they announced this nightmare. And from there on he starts acting like a douche bag trying to deflect questions back at Joe or just completely side step them with sarcastic snark.
Under the circumstances I would say Joe handled this pretty well. Not going to hard and knowing when to lay off when Major appeared to be getting agitated.

 

[Lopende Paddo]

People keep acting like Microsoft should be obliged to answer for the way their distribution system works. They really don't they've decided that they're using this cloud-based, pseudo-DRM.....thing. And that's their decision moving forward, how good this system actually is is going to come down to the gritty details of exactly how the system is implemented and how much give/take the system provides in terms of the restrictions / conveniences balance. People are acting like this distribution system's restriction is worst thing since Hitler, at the moment it sounds like it's going to function in a manner similar to Steam, I'll say it again, the actual effectiveness / hindrance of this system will come down to how generous / dickish Microsoft are about their implementation. All shall be revealed in the fullness of time.

Having said all that I'm not terribly optimistic, Microsoft have a far from stellar track record. i'm going to sit this gen out on the PC until the exact nature of the beast(s) emerge.

I envoke Godwins Law.

OT: Joe did a good job at the interview although his subject dodged everything while explaining nothing (classic PR training i would say, the guy should be in politics) I'll stick to pc and enjoy the rest of the current gen games.

 

[sanquin]

You do know he's the director of programming for xbox live right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Hryb

Nope I didn't... And considering that new information (for me at least): Yup, he's a douche. At least when it comes to Microsoft. Dunno how he is outside of work. (for obvious reasons.)

 

[barbzilla]

Just because Steam has been doing it longer doesn't make it better. I do use Steam and I won't buy the Xbone but you won't hear me saying "PC for the win" or anything similar because it seems stupid to me to run from Microsoft's DRM straight to PC.

People going to Sony and Nintendo, great. People going to PC are just trading DRM heavy for DRM heavy.

Re-read my post, I'm not arguing that they are right because they've been doing it longer. I am just explaining why they are doing it. I also think that STEAM is a heavy handed DRM machine, but I can also see why people use it. It became a standardised system for DRM on the PC, in an age where DRM practices were getting way out of hand (Sony's Spyware DRM for example). They then tried to balance that system by adding functionality and sales. Does that make their DRM right, no, it just makes it palatable. In all honesty, the Xbox DRM will one day be considered palatable, but people running from it, are trying to keep that day from being today.

In short, Steam = DRM, I don't argue this fact, and I never have. X1 = newly imposed DRM that hasn't been seen before on a console, which may lead to a whole new age of DRM heavy, anti-consumer policies on consoles in the near future. That is the difference I wanted to point out, not that Steam is a shiny golden nugget in a sea of shit, it is a polished turd in a sea of shit, but MSFT is a viper in a sea of constrictors.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Also, using a mobile phone to use the Xbone. Man, that phone bill would be insane.

Tethering should have been a logical answer for the people that said they might want to travel with their Xbone or for when people have temporary problems with the landline broadband and need to do the 24hr check in, I do not know why it was such a revelation. However tethering is all well and good for people with contracts, no hints on how much bandwidth this daily check in uses so PAYG users could be out of luck even with that.

Thats just a check in, I bet the Xbone will need patches all the time just like this gen so even people with service plans could end up out of luck too. Data plans are only going to get more and more expensive from now on anyway, not until the technology changes a lot and LTE-A is not going to make any difference and it won't be until we get "real" 4G or 5G as it will probably be called until we start to get prices back on track.

People going to Sony and Nintendo, great. People going to PC are just trading DRM heavy for DRM heavy.

Because for the most part PC DRM like Steam isn't that bad, sure it might be on the used games perspective but in general its ok with offline modes and the fact that does have some benefits which make it a bit more palatable. The used games bit is cancelled out by the fact that you buy the games new from digital distribution more cheaply than you can get used copies of console games from ripoff places like Game.

Maybe you are of the opinion that good sale prices replace consumer rights but I am not.

 

[J Tyran]

The used games bit is cancelled out by the fact that you buy the games new from digital distribution more cheaply than you can get used copies of console games from ripoff places like Game.

Maybe you are of the opinion that good sale prices replace consumer rights but I am not.

If by consumer rights you mean paying more for your products at the more anti consumer business then you are welcome to them, if toddling into a store that rips you off and harms the industry with your plastic disk makes you feel like your "fitin teh powah" good luck to you.

I exercise my consumer rights to get my items at a good price, at my convenience and from a company that's not actively ruining the industry.

Besides which I am not talking about sales being cheaper digitally than used at companies like LameStop, the prices altogether are cheaper than you can get used copies. When the sales start the prices really get nuts.

 

[Something Amyss]

To be fair, he's given some straight answers in regards to playing games offline after the life of the console and some other things, but generally what he seems to not realise is that embracing the future isn't doing shit for the consumers.

Actually, his straight answers are kind of evasive anyway. He just said, effectively, that they had no exit strategy for this generation based on the mentality that it hasn't started yet. This simultaneously undercuts other claims AND indicates a potential major flaw here.

More importantly, though: the future. Microsoft is trying to take us to A future, and treating it as more or less the inevitable outcome. This future overwhelminly benefits the industry over the consumer. I think Larry and Microsoft realise that just fine. In fact, my theory is this is WHY they're pushing it so hard. In fact, the very notion that they have so little to offer the consumer is exactly why they're pushing as fervently as they do.

But what's their alternative? Let the future shape itself? Hope we just decide to give away our rights? Risk something as horrible as the compact disc coming to the market again?

People going to Sony and Nintendo, great. People going to PC are just trading DRM heavy for DRM heavy.

Of course, Sony and Nintendo also use DRM, so that argument falls flat. Consoles are designed in such a way as to include DRM by nature. The PC on the other hand?

If only there was a way to get access to a large library of legal, DRM-free games on my PC!

*looks at gaming library*

PRAISE TO THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS PC GODS!

(and I'm not even a heavy PC gamer)

I started out hating Joe back in the day... now I feel nothing but respect for him.

Mostly, he just annoys me.

Whow, a thread about Angry Joe!? That's awesome for I wasn't exactly sure as to how many people knew him but thanks OP for this!

I can never tell.

Also, using a mobile phone to use the Xbone. Man, that phone bill would be insane.

Tethering should have been a logical answer for the people that said they might want to travel with their Xbone or for when people have temporary problems with the landline broadband and need to do the 24hr check in, I do not know why it was such a revelation. However tethering is all well and good for people with contracts, no hints on how much bandwidth this daily check in uses so PAYG users could be out of luck even with that.

Thats just a check in, I bet the Xbone will need patches all the time just like this gen so even people with service plans could end up out of luck too. Data plans are only going to get more and more expensive from now on anyway, not until the technology changes a lot and LTE-A is not going to make any difference and it won't be until we get "real" 4G or 5G as it will probably be called until we start to get prices back on track.

Maybe you are of the opinion that good sale prices replace consumer rights but I am not.

Unfortunately, that die was cast a long time ago.

 

[Something Amyss]

If by consumer rights you mean paying more for your products at the more anti consumer business then you are welcome to them, if toddling into a store that rips you off and harms the industry with your plastic disk makes you feel like your "fitin teh powah" good luck to you.

Now, now, you may not like retail, but there's no need to offer histrionic scare mongering about the "harm" to the industry.