Angry Joe's interview with Major Nelson

[WeepingAngels]

The used games bit is cancelled out by the fact that you buy the games new from digital distribution more cheaply than you can get used copies of console games from ripoff places like Game.

Maybe you are of the opinion that good sale prices replace consumer rights but I am not.

If by consumer rights you mean paying more for your products at the more anti consumer business then you are welcome to them, if toddling into a store that rips you off and harms the industry with your plastic disk makes you feel like your "fitin teh powah" good luck to you.

I exercise my consumer rights to get my items at a good price, at my convenience and from a company that's not actively ruining the industry.

I am referring to the consumer right to resell your games and not just at Gamestop either. Ever heard of garage sales, eBay, Amazon, local game shops and to friends.

I don't consider low prices to be a replacement for the right to resell my games. I consider prices to be a completely different subject from DRM. You can have heavy DRM and low prices and you can have heavy DRM and high prices, Steam has both since most games are not on sale most of the time. For example, you can buy Skyrim Legendary Edition for $60 on PC and not be able to resell it or you can buy it on the PS3/360 in physical form for the same price and be able to resell it. See how DRM and price are not connected?

Saying "I'll give up my consumer rights for cheap games" isn't a good message to send to publishers.

 

[J Tyran]

The used games bit is cancelled out by the fact that you buy the games new from digital distribution more cheaply than you can get used copies of console games from ripoff places like Game.

Maybe you are of the opinion that good sale prices replace consumer rights but I am not.

If by consumer rights you mean paying more for your products at the more anti consumer business then you are welcome to them, if toddling into a store that rips you off and harms the industry with your plastic disk makes you feel like your "fitin teh powah" good luck to you.

I exercise my consumer rights to get my items at a good price, at my convenience and from a company that's not actively ruining the industry.

I am referring to consumer right to resell your games and not just at Gamestop either. Ever heard of garage sales, eBay, Amazon, local game shops and to friends.

I don't consider low prices to be a replacement for the right to resell my games. I consider prices to be a completely different subject from DRM. You can have heavy DRM and low prices and you can have heavy DRM and high prices, Steam has both since most games are not on sale most of the time. For example, you can buy Skyrim Legendary Edition for $60 on PC and not be able to resell it or you can buy it on the PS3/360 in physical form and be able to resell it. See how DRM and price are not connected?

Reselling games has never been a consumer "right" its just been a thing consumers did.

If by consumer rights you mean paying more for your products at the more anti consumer business then you are welcome to them, if toddling into a store that rips you off and harms the industry with your plastic disk makes you feel like your "fitin teh powah" good luck to you.

Now, now, you may not like retail, but there's no need to offer histrionic scare mongering about the "harm" to the industry.

A lot of bullshit gamers have to put up with has been traced back to these retailers, like pre order bonuses for example. This whole used games mess would never have gotten started either if these companies hadn't started talking customers into buying a used copy of a game instead of buying a new one. Publishers where never really happy about used games but its business practices like that which have forced the issue.

 

[WeepingAngels]

The used games bit is cancelled out by the fact that you buy the games new from digital distribution more cheaply than you can get used copies of console games from ripoff places like Game.

Maybe you are of the opinion that good sale prices replace consumer rights but I am not.

If by consumer rights you mean paying more for your products at the more anti consumer business then you are welcome to them, if toddling into a store that rips you off and harms the industry with your plastic disk makes you feel like your "fitin teh powah" good luck to you.

I exercise my consumer rights to get my items at a good price, at my convenience and from a company that's not actively ruining the industry.

I am referring to consumer right to resell your games and not just at Gamestop either. Ever heard of garage sales, eBay, Amazon, local game shops and to friends.

I don't consider low prices to be a replacement for the right to resell my games. I consider prices to be a completely different subject from DRM. You can have heavy DRM and low prices and you can have heavy DRM and high prices, Steam has both since most games are not on sale most of the time. For example, you can buy Skyrim Legendary Edition for $60 on PC and not be able to resell it or you can buy it on the PS3/360 in physical form and be able to resell it. See how DRM and price are not connected?

Reselling games has never been a consumer "right" its just been a thing consumers did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Consumers do it and are protected by law. I call that a consumer right, you call it what you like. In the end, people showing publishers that they are willing to give up their right to resell is just the wiggle room publishers need to completely take it away. Publishers see people buying cheap games but they also see people paying full price for digital games.

It can be argued that Microsoft saw how much praise Steam gets and decided on it's course for the Xbone.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Also people turning off your xbox by yelling XBOX OFF, you know, parents, girlfriends, friends being jerks, lol.

I want to cruise the streets screaming "Xbox off" through a mega phone.

 

[Zenn3k]

Major Nelson's interview with Skydart (from Reddit) was WAY different in tone...probably because Skydart is a very attractive female and Angry Joe is not.

Nelson dodges too many questions to bother listening to him speak.

 

[J Tyran]

The used games bit is cancelled out by the fact that you buy the games new from digital distribution more cheaply than you can get used copies of console games from ripoff places like Game.

Maybe you are of the opinion that good sale prices replace consumer rights but I am not.

If by consumer rights you mean paying more for your products at the more anti consumer business then you are welcome to them, if toddling into a store that rips you off and harms the industry with your plastic disk makes you feel like your "fitin teh powah" good luck to you.

I exercise my consumer rights to get my items at a good price, at my convenience and from a company that's not actively ruining the industry.

I am referring to consumer right to resell your games and not just at Gamestop either. Ever heard of garage sales, eBay, Amazon, local game shops and to friends.

I don't consider low prices to be a replacement for the right to resell my games. I consider prices to be a completely different subject from DRM. You can have heavy DRM and low prices and you can have heavy DRM and high prices, Steam has both since most games are not on sale most of the time. For example, you can buy Skyrim Legendary Edition for $60 on PC and not be able to resell it or you can buy it on the PS3/360 in physical form and be able to resell it. See how DRM and price are not connected?

Reselling games has never been a consumer "right" its just been a thing consumers did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Consumers do it and are protected by law. I call that a consumer right, you call it what you like. In the end, people showing publishers that they are willing to give up their right to resell is just the wiggle room publishers need to completely take it away. Publishers see people buying cheap games but they also see people paying full price for digital games.

It can be argued that Microsoft saw how much praise Steam gets and decided on it's course for the Xbone.

Yes you have the right to do what you want with the plastic disk, you only bought a licence for software however (i.e. the game) so right of first sale doesn't apply. If its law why is it happening with physical copies of Steam games or Origin games and will be happening with Xbone games?

I think its a future people are just going to have to either suck up, get a new hobby or just stick with whatever happens to be on GoG. We have been moving towards this since consoles started connecting to internet in earnest.

It never bothered me with the PC because it had already happened before I started playing on the PC back in 2005, no point getting upset over a battle that was already lost and I saw the advantages of it and how much better Steam actually is than retail.

 

[WeepingAngels]

The used games bit is cancelled out by the fact that you buy the games new from digital distribution more cheaply than you can get used copies of console games from ripoff places like Game.

Maybe you are of the opinion that good sale prices replace consumer rights but I am not.

If by consumer rights you mean paying more for your products at the more anti consumer business then you are welcome to them, if toddling into a store that rips you off and harms the industry with your plastic disk makes you feel like your "fitin teh powah" good luck to you.

I exercise my consumer rights to get my items at a good price, at my convenience and from a company that's not actively ruining the industry.

I am referring to consumer right to resell your games and not just at Gamestop either. Ever heard of garage sales, eBay, Amazon, local game shops and to friends.

I don't consider low prices to be a replacement for the right to resell my games. I consider prices to be a completely different subject from DRM. You can have heavy DRM and low prices and you can have heavy DRM and high prices, Steam has both since most games are not on sale most of the time. For example, you can buy Skyrim Legendary Edition for $60 on PC and not be able to resell it or you can buy it on the PS3/360 in physical form and be able to resell it. See how DRM and price are not connected?

Reselling games has never been a consumer "right" its just been a thing consumers did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Consumers do it and are protected by law. I call that a consumer right, you call it what you like. In the end, people showing publishers that they are willing to give up their right to resell is just the wiggle room publishers need to completely take it away. Publishers see people buying cheap games but they also see people paying full price for digital games.

It can be argued that Microsoft saw how much praise Steam gets and decided on it's course for the Xbone.

Yes you have the right to do what you want with the plastic disk, you only bought a licence for software however (i.e. the game) so right of first sale doesn't apply. If its law why is it happening with physical copies of Steam games or Origin games and will be happening with Xbone games?

I think its a future people are just going to have to either suck up, get a new hobby or just stick with whatever happens to be on GoG. We have been moving towards this since consoles started connecting to internet in earnest.

It never bothered me with the PC because it had already happened before I started playing on the PC back in 2005, no point getting upset over a battle that was already lost and I saw the advantages of it and how much better Steam actually is than retail.

It's happening on Steam and Origin because it hasn't been legally challenged in the US or maybe it's because Steam and Origin are services and not a product...probably both. It can happen to console games too if people allow it.

My only point is this: "Steam is not a refuge from Microsoft's DRM". Simple really, people can talk about Steam sales but in my mind, sales and DRM are not the same thing.

 

[Rickin10]

A lot of bullshit gamers have to put up with has been traced back to these retailers, like pre order bonuses for example. This whole used games mess would never have gotten started either if these companies hadn't started talking customers into buying a used copy of a game instead of buying a new one. Publishers where never really happy about used games but its business practices like that which have forced the issue.

You really think publishers wouldn't have pulled all that shit if it weren't for the used game boogie man?

 

[saintdane05]

Major Nelson's interview with Skydart (from Reddit) was WAY different in tone...probably because Skydart is a very attractive female and Angry Joe is not.

.

Joe, however, is a very attractive man.

 

[Something Amyss]

Truth be told, I was actually very grateful to the OP for making a post about Angry Joe

It's just...You've been here for more than two weeks. It's a little mind kersploding to think you're surprised there are Angry Joe fans here. It's kind of like a music fan asking you if you've ever heard of these "Beatles" guys.

Fanboy Joe is so beloved around these parts I usually call the Fire Department before I voice my opinions on him.

 

[Something Amyss]

Reselling games has never been a consumer "right" its just been a thing consumers did.

First Sale Doctrine disagrees.

This whole used games mess would never have gotten started either if these companies hadn't started talking customers into buying a used copy of a game instead of buying a new one. Publishers where never really happy about used games but its business practices like that which have forced the issue.

You're arguing unprovable points to try and make retailers look evil because....Why, exactly? Just admit it, other industries have tried to crack down as well, without an analogue to Gamestop. There's no mystery here: corporations want more money and when they run out of ways to maximise profit internally they will look to external sources.

Simple. Elegant. Honest.

You really think publishers wouldn't have pulled all that shit if it weren't for the used game boogie man?

Publishers in video games are altruistic and far-sighted. Clearly, this kind of greed only exists everywhere else.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

I started out hating Joe back in the day... now I feel nothing but respect for him.

Mostly, he just annoys me.

Aye, he's not beyond annoying me every once in a while, but he's pretty damn consistent in his delivery and he shows dedication as well as some surprising wits.

Also, witnessing him turn from an XBOX fanboy to a PS4 aficionado has something... wickedly satisfactory to it. But that's just my naughty bear me.

I honestly think he's matured into a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Silly Hats]

Though, I'm 100% about appreciating well thought out ideas, applications and technologies. There has been a huge emphasis on getting people to appreciate the console because it utilizes the Cloud and has a Family package almost like they're beating it in the consumers heads with a mallet. I get it, it does that though it certainly isn't a console seller.

All in all, I am completely neutral about this entire Console debate and I am not/wasn't going to purchase one anytime soon. The most fascinating thing to me is the whole social reaction to the console warfare and I'm not sure how I feel about it. I feel like this entire situation is just two companies dangling a carrot over the entire gaming culture. It could just be a pseudo primeval urge to 'Stick It to the man' but I feel like I should try to avoid this sort of thing. Practically every gamer is just vicariously monitoring this unfold looking at anything to be outraged at.

Don't get me wrong, it's shit but surely everyone knows this now.

 

[J Tyran]

Reselling games has never been a consumer "right" its just been a thing consumers did.

First Sale Doctrine disagrees.

US Law is in the United States, plus it doesn't apply as you do not buy a game. You bought a license for some software and "signed" an agreement about how that software can be used.

This whole used games mess would never have gotten started either if these companies hadn't started talking customers into buying a used copy of a game instead of buying a new one. Publishers where never really happy about used games but its business practices like that which have forced the issue.

You're arguing unprovable points to try and make retailers look evil because....Why, exactly? Just admit it, other industries have tried to crack down as well, without an analogue to Gamestop. There's no mystery here: corporations want more money and when they run out of ways to maximise profit internally they will look to external sources.

Simple. Elegant. Honest.

I notice you avoided mentioning the pre order bonuses, I like how you dont try to deny it either. The aggresive marketing of used games over new has been pretty well documented, its not been proven by a large sample size of stores being randomly chosen and then carefully recording which games they try to sell you but its still well documented. Not publicly anyway, the publishers might have done it.

Your best argument is that "others do it so the damage the retailers are causing doesnt exist", erm OK.

 

[the_green_dragon]

Come on, don't play dumb. He was talking about a situation where your son is on the other side of the country, can you give him your disk?
I have many friends who live far from my home, different countries, different continents even. I can't give them shit.
Even a complete idiot would see the benefit from being able to share your entire library with a click of a button.

That is a great feature but the problem is that its not in a vacuum and comes packaged with all the other problems, if Microsoft added the ability to digitally "lend" a game this way to the existing 360 tomorrow it would be awesome. If the Xbone had none of the other problems and worked the same as the 360 does now with its used games and came with a feature to lend games this way it would be an awesome feature.

As it stands though the Xbone has nothing but restrictions with this feature being one of the few good things about this new semi digital future Microsoft have dreamt up.

Lending your game to a friend on the other side of the world is a good idea I must admit BUT it comes packaged with all that other crap.

 

[Bertylicious]

Wait, wait, wait, back up, back up.

*record scratch*

His name is MAJOR Nelson? Why the hell didn't he join the army?

 

[Evil Smurf]

Major Nelson seems like an idiot, this is probably an image though because you'd have to be smart to be a spokesperson. I just don't understand or like his angle.

 

[NightmareExpress]

Wait, wait, wait, back up, back up.

*record scratch*

His name is MAJOR Nelson? Why the hell didn't he join the army?

His name is Larry Hyrb.
Major Nelson was a character from the '60s show I dream of Jeannie that he must of watched at some point and subsequently thought the name sounded cool. No different than if the character Kevin Butler (played by Jerry Lambert) was named Major Tom instead, with the reference more than likely being the David Bowie song.

So...what sounds better to ya?
Major Nelson, or Larry Hyrb?

 

[Something Amyss]

US Law is in the United States, plus it doesn't apply as you do not buy a game. You bought a license for some software and "signed" an agreement about how that software can be used.

Yes, it's a US law. And European countries even go so far as to offer the right to digital resale. Are you really going to try and play the jurisdiction game to pretend you have some semblence of validity here?

Further, if companies want to be software and service providers, they need to stop playing it both ways. I think that's why they (and you) fear Gamestop so much. They know any solid decision there requires them to square off against one element or the other.

I notice you avoided mentioning the pre order bonuses, I like how you dont try to deny it either.

Well, it's a stupid point, to be fair. There have been digital deals for the same since the dawn of digital, so pretending this is a retail thing is ridiculous. So I didn't address it. If you really want me to stomp on this, though, incentives have been a long-standing part of commerce, something that well predates video games and is utterly pointless to bring up here.

Are you satisfied, or should I educate you some more?

The aggresive marketing of used games over new has been pretty well documented, its not been proven by a large sample size of stores being randomly chosen and then carefully recording which games they try to sell you but its still well documented. Not publicly anyway, the publishers might have done it.

Your conspiracy theories don't matter. It's either been documented or it hasn't. If it's been documented, then the evidence is readily available, which you yourself are saying is not the case as there's no public...What's the word? Oh yeah, documentation. Even in that case, it doesn't change the irrelevance of this point I already mentioned: industries pull the same thing without a Gamestop. If you an remove Gamestop from the equation and have the same results, Gamestop is not the problem.

Look, I see this confuses you, so let me give you a demonstrative example. Say you have a solution of orange juice and bleach. Drinking the solution will kill you. Do you complain about the orange juice, a superfluous element in the lethal cocktail, or do you just stop drinking bleach? Right now, you're blaming the orange juice; it may have some health concerns in its own right, but it isn't the reason people get sick when they consumer Draino-Made brand fruit cleaner.

Honestly, should Gamestop die, they will find another scapegoat. Probably piracy. Piracy will magically go up by the same numbers they attributed to gamestop.

Your best argument is that "others do it so the damage the retailers are causing doesnt exist", erm OK.

Hopefully now that you've been properly educated, you will rephrase this false statement and profess the lack of understanding that led to it.

You know, that show Fappy said I should make is starting to sound good. Maybe I'll consult him on it.

 

[Something Amyss]

His name is MAJOR Nelson? Why the hell didn't he join the army?

Because they made him a private, and it got even more confusing.

Major Nelson seems like an idiot, this is probably an image though because you'd have to be smart to be a spokesperson. I just don't understand or like his angle.

To be fair, he's one of their big PR guys (de facto, even if not in title) and has been put on the defensive by the sheer amount of "dumb" and "fail" Microsoft has dropped in his lap. I'm surprised he can form coherent sentences at this point. I'd have drunk myself into a coma by now.

His name is Larry Hyrb.
Major Nelson was a character from the '60s show I dream of Jeannie that he must of watched at some point and subsequently thought the name sounded cool.

Hryb. And he's acknowledged the source of his name is "I Dream of Jeannie." Apparently, he even did a tribute to the late Larry Hagman at some point. Just to clarify and all.