Anonymous Splinter Group Targeting Sony Executives

[HyenaThePirate]

All told, I'm with Anon on this one. The whole lawsuit is rather ridiculous. If someone wants to do something, regardless of what it is, with the hardware they bought and paid for, they damn well be able to.

No, they shouldn't be able to. To be quite honest, all PERSONAL feelings aside, the only real thing a consumer can do with hardware is decide to BUY it or NOT. However, companies have the right to protect themselves, especially from piracy and misuse of their product in criminal pursuits, provided they forewarn potential consumers before hand. And let's be clear, that is what the problem comes down to... people don't want to "modify" their hardware so they can make spreadsheets and edit their fan films. They do it to so they can play GAMES without paying for them. That is the ultimate end goal for 90% of modders. I remember back in the day during the PSP's early release, all the hackers defended their pursuits of hacking the PSP firmware as their desire to play homebrew programs, apps, and games. However, I don't seem to recall ANY homebrew games or programs anyone was really using beyond changing their background theme. ALL of the other "homebrew" consisted of emulators and pirated PSP game roms. So in essence, the "haxxors" community shot themselves in the foot, and got embroiled in a war with Sony who took more and more drastic, even draconian steps to prevent the piracy on the handheld. This lead to poor PSP sales I surmise, due to them trying so damn hard to stop pirates and not focusing on making the games for the system as enticing as they could have been. Nintendo went through a similar situation with the R4 cartridge, which they successfully got removed from market. Sure people CLAIMED they wanted it to 'backup' their saves and games, but in reality, everyone knows that it's main and in most cases ONLY use were to allow piracy of downloaded DS roms.

It's a situation where the few, VERY FEW, legitimate modders are overshadowed by the greedy, selfish individuals who somehow have the skewed perception that they should be allowed to play games for free because games are too expensive for them to buy... as if it is some sort of human right to be able to play the latest Final Fantasy game whether you can afford to buy it or not.

At the end of the day, THIS is why project $10, rootkits, and all these other disastrous programs are the focus of gaming companies instead of making their products better... because making consoles and games is expensive business, and when people don't buy them (even though they apparently still want to PLAY them) it prevents them from making other things, and investing in newer IP's. There's probably a great deal of cool, inventive, fresh games that we'll never get to play because they never got made because Sony had to spend its money stopping people stealing their games rather than investing in some new game companies with bold fresh ideas.

 

[Agayek]

Well lets put it this way. Whens the last time you bought music? Probably a long time. And yet you probably have tons of music on your harddrive. The music industry is all but dead, and the video game industry will follow swiftly if we allow people like Geohot to get away with what he did.

Actually, I can't remember the last time I didn't buy a song that I listen to regularly. I rarely hop on Pandora and listen to that for free, but when I find a song or whatever I like, I pay for it, usually off of the iTunes store. If it's not on the iTunes store, I'll find a version on YouTube and download that until it is up on iTunes. Not really that complicated.

That whole debate is largely irrelevant though. The fact of the matter is, Hotz is being sued for modifying his own property. That strikes me as more than a little ridiculous.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

See, there was this thread the other day that asked if Anonymous was the good guys or bad guys. I said they sound like thugs to me, and people said, "Well, it all depends on which side of the fence you're on." Bull shit. What did the children of the Sony employees do? What did the average employee at Sony do? What the hell did I DO for them to mess with my connection to the PlayStation Network? The fence isn't even in my freaking YARD. Thugs.

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

You wanna fuck with the people involved, you do that, that's one thing. You fuck with their kids, their families... Shit starts to get REALLY creepy. Their families? Seriously? Since when has Anon decided "Tim fucked up, I'm gonna gather all the information I can on his wife and kids"? If one person fucks up, Anon usually attacks that person, not their entire family... This doesn't seem right, this doesn't seem like anon

This is the same group who will hack a website and post everyones password info on the web, and find info about a target and call them on the phone to leave threatening messages. You really didnt see this coming? There is nothing noble about what they do.

I don't know, but DDoS attacks and such are one thing, but going after the family... Take all the dirt and rumors and bullshit you want. but this is just too far

Still is a Splinter Cell of the group. If they get caught, Anonymous at large will deny any reponsibility on that rogue group actions and just keep on doing what they want.

I'm against cyber terrorism for liberty. Oops, I didn't meant to use that word... Well, I did now...

And seriously :"You wanna fuck with the people involved, you do that, that's one thing." That's fucked up man...

I figured te standard DDoS attacks to be honest. I don't like the idea of handing out cell phone nubers, getting people to call oters at 3AM, sending them voicemails, BLAH BLAH BLAH.... but a simply DDoS attack... it gets fixed, as long as there are no long lasting effects.

What I should have said is "Why ar eyouo getting personal, don't get personal"

 

[Misho-]

You wanna fuck with the people involved, you do that, that's one thing. You fuck with their kids, their families... Shit starts to get REALLY creepy. Their families? Seriously? Since when has Anon decided "Tim fucked up, I'm gonna gather all the information I can on his wife and kids"? If one person fucks up, Anon usually attacks that person, not their entire family... This doesn't seem right, this doesn't seem like anon

This is the same group who will hack a website and post everyones password info on the web, and find info about a target and call them on the phone to leave threatening messages. You really didnt see this coming? There is nothing noble about what they do.

I don't know, but DDoS attacks and such are one thing, but going after the family... Take all the dirt and rumors and bullshit you want. but this is just too far

Still is a Splinter Cell of the group. If they get caught, Anonymous at large will deny any reponsibility on that rogue group actions and just keep on doing what they want.

I'm against cyber terrorism for liberty. Oops, I didn't meant to use that word... Well, I did now...

And seriously :"You wanna fuck with the people involved, you do that, that's one thing." That's fucked up man...

I figured te standard DDoS attacks to be honest. I don't like the idea of handing out cell phone nubers, getting people to call oters at 3AM, sending them voicemails, BLAH BLAH BLAH.... but a simply DDoS attack... it gets fixed, as long as there are no long lasting effects.

What I should have said is "Why ar eyouo getting personal, don't get personal"

No, don't worry. I don't like getting personal either, it just that it sounds really fucked up... Glad you clarified that bit.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

bunch of cowards if you ask me. Seriously attacking the family members of Sony exec. To me that's just crossing a line. Besides who gave these 14 year old shut ins with a computer the authority to deal out justice (if you want to call it that)?

So, we should just bow down to corporations? There is no line when it comes to freedom from big business.

Theres basically nothing right about that. If Sony didnt try to protect their IPs, then hackers torrenting and illegally copying games would basically bankrupt them, Microsoft, Nintendo, and any other software company. Whats the incentive to making a product if illegally downloading and copying games becomes legal.

That isnt what this is about, you know what sony did? They ADVERTISED that their product could install linux. Then AFTER people bought this product they removed it. Thats theft. They said technically you dont own your ps3, you rent it, and they can remove/add anything they want.
No... its my PS3, i can buy one, smash one, take my PS3 and throw it out of my window. I can do whatever i damn well please with it. Installing linux wasnt a crime, it wasnt illegal, THEY ADVERTISED IT! But now its gone, and to play games i need to update, an update that removes this ability. This isnt fair.

Imagine this scenario. I sell you a chocolate bar. I tell you it is tasty. You raise it to your mouth and take a bite. Its pretty damn good. You try to take another bite before i grab it out of your hand, throw it to the floor and stamp on it screaming "NO IT IS NOT FOR EATING, YOU RENTED IT! IT ISNT YOURS AND I DECIDE WHAT YOU CAN AND CANNOT DO!" I then incinerate the remains and make sure you cant buy any more edible candy of the same viarety.

I sell you a care that has 5 doors. While you sleep i creap over to your house, rip the door off your car, remove half the steering wheel and leave. I then sue the persons selling the halves of steering wheels i stole.

 

[heydarguise]

See, there was this thread the other day that asked if Anonymous was the good guys or bad guys. I said they sound like thugs to me, and people said, "Well, it all depends on which side of the fence you're on." Bull shit. What did the children of the Sony employees do? What did the average employee at Sony do? What the hell did I DO for them to mess with my connection to the PlayStation Network? The fence isn't even in my freaking YARD. Thugs.

You may have a look at this.
http://anonnews.org/?p=press&a=item&i=797

 

[Agayek]

No, they shouldn't be able to. To be quite honest, all PERSONAL feelings aside, the only real thing a consumer can do with hardware is decide to BUY it or NOT. However, companies have the right to protect themselves, especially from piracy and misuse of their product in criminal pursuits, provided they forewarn potential consumers before hand. And let's be clear, that is what the problem comes down to... people don't want to "modify" their hardware so they can make spreadsheets and edit their fan films. They do it to so they can play GAMES without paying for them. That is the ultimate end goal for 90% of modders. I remember back in the day during the PSP's early release, all the hackers defended their pursuits of hacking the PSP firmware as their desire to play homebrew programs, apps, and games. However, I don't seem to recall ANY homebrew games or programs anyone was really using beyond changing their background theme. ALL of the other "homebrew" consisted of emulators and pirated PSP game roms. So in essence, the "haxxors" community shot themselves in the foot, and got embroiled in a war with Sony who took more and more drastic, even draconian steps to prevent the piracy on the handheld. This lead to poor PSP sales I surmise, due to them trying so damn hard to stop pirates and not focusing on making the games for the system as enticing as they could have been. Nintendo went through a similar situation with the R4 cartridge, which they successfully got removed from market. Sure people CLAIMED they wanted it to 'backup' their saves and games, but in reality, everyone knows that it's main and in most cases ONLY use were to allow piracy of downloaded DS roms.

It's a situation where the few, VERY FEW, legitimate modders are overshadowed by the greedy, selfish individuals who somehow have the skewed perception that they should be allowed to play games for free because games are too expensive for them to buy... as if it is some sort of human right to be able to play the latest Final Fantasy game whether you can afford to buy it or not.

At the end of the day, THIS is why project $10, rootkits, and all these other disastrous programs are the focus of gaming companies instead of making their products better... because making consoles and games is expensive business, and when people don't buy them (even though they apparently still want to PLAY them) it prevents them from making other things, and investing in newer IP's. There's probably a great deal of cool, inventive, fresh games that we'll never get to play because they never got made because Sony had to spend its money stopping people stealing their games rather than investing in some new game companies with bold fresh ideas.

First, your assumption that if they didn't have to spend the money to protect their business they would instead spend it on their products is laughably naive.

Second, what is done with a mod is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is, Sony is saying you can spend $400 on hardware and then be completely unable to modify it, in any way, shape or form. And that's ridiculous. If you want to modify something you bought and paid for, you damn well better be allowed to, regardless of what you plan to do with the end result.

I'm all for bringing litigation against pirates, but this is ridiculous. Find someone who played a pirated game and slap them with a lawsuit, I'm fine with. Targeting someone because they fucked around with their own property is well over the line.

One should be allowed to do anything they want with one's own property, regardless of all other concerns. The entire problem I have with this lawsuit is that that's what it's targeting. Piracy isn't even peripherally involved. Some schmuck wanted to mess with his property and Sony didn't like it. That's the whole lawsuit in a nutshell.

 

[Echo136]

bunch of cowards if you ask me. Seriously attacking the family members of Sony exec. To me that's just crossing a line. Besides who gave these 14 year old shut ins with a computer the authority to deal out justice (if you want to call it that)?

So, we should just bow down to corporations? There is no line when it comes to freedom from big business.

Theres basically nothing right about that. If Sony didnt try to protect their IPs, then hackers torrenting and illegally copying games would basically bankrupt them, Microsoft, Nintendo, and any other software company. Whats the incentive to making a product if illegally downloading and copying games becomes legal.

That isnt what this is about, you know what sony did? They ADVERTISED that their product could install linux. Then AFTER people bought this product they removed it. Thats theft. They said technically you dont own your ps3, you rent it, and they can remove/add anything they want.
No... its my PS3, i can buy one, smash one, take my PS3 and throw it out of my window. I can do whatever i damn well please with it. Installing linux wasnt a crime, it wasnt illegal, THEY ADVERTISED IT! But now its gone, and to play games i need to update, an update that removes this ability. This isnt fair.

Imagine this scenario. I sell you a chocolate bar. I tell you it is tasty. You raise it to your mouth and take a bite. Its pretty damn good. You try to take another bite before i grab it out of your hand, throw it to the floor and stamp on it screaming "NO IT IS NOT FOR EATING, YOU RENTED IT! IT ISNT YOURS AND I DECIDE WHAT YOU CAN AND CANNOT DO!" I then incinerate the remains and make sure you cant buy any more edible candy of the same viarety.

I sell you a care that has 5 doors. While you sleep i creap over to your house, rip the door off your car, remove half the steering wheel and leave. I then sue the persons selling the halves of steering wheels i stole.

They advertised taht their product could use linux for 2 fucking weeks. Get over it.

 

[gundamrx101]

Like the cleaning of a house. . . . . .It Never Ends.
(ha simpsons reference).

OT: So this went from bad to OMGWTFBBQ? Really? I've already said about this subject what I wanted and I don't like repeating myself (repition does help kids learn though) so I'm just gonna shake my head at this and enjoy some PC gaming.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

bunch of cowards if you ask me. Seriously attacking the family members of Sony exec. To me that's just crossing a line. Besides who gave these 14 year old shut ins with a computer the authority to deal out justice (if you want to call it that)?

So, we should just bow down to corporations? There is no line when it comes to freedom from big business.

Theres basically nothing right about that. If Sony didnt try to protect their IPs, then hackers torrenting and illegally copying games would basically bankrupt them, Microsoft, Nintendo, and any other software company. Whats the incentive to making a product if illegally downloading and copying games becomes legal.

That isnt what this is about, you know what sony did? They ADVERTISED that their product could install linux. Then AFTER people bought this product they removed it. Thats theft. They said technically you dont own your ps3, you rent it, and they can remove/add anything they want.
No... its my PS3, i can buy one, smash one, take my PS3 and throw it out of my window. I can do whatever i damn well please with it. Installing linux wasnt a crime, it wasnt illegal, THEY ADVERTISED IT! But now its gone, and to play games i need to update, an update that removes this ability. This isnt fair.

Imagine this scenario. I sell you a chocolate bar. I tell you it is tasty. You raise it to your mouth and take a bite. Its pretty damn good. You try to take another bite before i grab it out of your hand, throw it to the floor and stamp on it screaming "NO IT IS NOT FOR EATING, YOU RENTED IT! IT ISNT YOURS AND I DECIDE WHAT YOU CAN AND CANNOT DO!" I then incinerate the remains and make sure you cant buy any more edible candy of the same viarety.

I sell you a care that has 5 doors. While you sleep i creap over to your house, rip the door off your car, remove half the steering wheel and leave. I then sue the persons selling the halves of steering wheels i stole.

They advertised taht their product could use linux for 2 fucking weeks. Get over it.

You dont own anything you buy. You are renting it. It never belongs for you, you have no right to do with it as you please. You must obey/use it as instructed. Welcome to 1984.

 

[Echo136]

You dont own anything you buy. You are renting it. It never belongs for you, you have no right to do with it as you please. You must obey/use it as instructed. Welcome to 1984.

Nobody is holding a gun up to your head and forcing you to buy a PS3 or Xbox 360, or even forcing you to sign the EULA. If you dont like it, dont buy the product. The 1984 comparison is childish and extremely ridiculous.

 

[FFHAuthor]

So much for the rule of law in America.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

You dont own anything you buy. You are renting it. It never belongs for you, you have no right to do with it as you please. You must obey/use it as instructed. Welcome to 1984.

Nobody is holding a gun up to your head and forcing you to buy a PS3 or Xbox 360, or even forcing you to sign the EULA. If you dont like it, dont buy the product. The 1984 comparison is childish and extremely ridiculous.

I know, im not forced to buy it. But if i do buy it, it is mine. Its a trade. The foundation of all civilisation for thousands of years. Suddenly companies think they can change this definition to mean i dont own things i trade for. I think that before this becomes Ok we need to grab it by the balls and let them know that actually it ISNT. Other companies may try this. I can damn well own things i pay for. Christ, im not pirating, im purchasing and im PUNISHED. I dont support piracy, but hell i can see where the temptation is. Its a message. A message you cannot decide we dont own things we pay for. You ignored my examples, dont you agree they are unfair? They are similar. The 1984 thing was rather theatrical, more than it was a proper comparison.

 

[Echo136]

Well lets put it this way. Whens the last time you bought music? Probably a long time. And yet you probably have tons of music on your harddrive. The music industry is all but dead, and the video game industry will follow swiftly if we allow people like Geohot to get away with what he did.

Actually, I can't remember the last time I didn't buy a song that I listen to regularly. I rarely hop on Pandora and listen to that for free, but when I find a song or whatever I like, I pay for it, usually off of the iTunes store. If it's not on the iTunes store, I'll find a version on YouTube and download that until it is up on iTunes. Not really that complicated.

That whole debate is largely irrelevant though. The fact of the matter is, Hotz is being sued for modifying his own property. That strikes me as more than a little ridiculous.

As I said when I edited the post, if Hotz had just modified his PS3 he would have gone unnoticed, but its the fact that he published how he did it along with source code (or whatever the code was) to the public on the internet, which was then virally sent around the internet is what brought this whole thing to a boil.

 

[Echo136]

You dont own anything you buy. You are renting it. It never belongs for you, you have no right to do with it as you please. You must obey/use it as instructed. Welcome to 1984.

Nobody is holding a gun up to your head and forcing you to buy a PS3 or Xbox 360, or even forcing you to sign the EULA. If you dont like it, dont buy the product. The 1984 comparison is childish and extremely ridiculous.

I know, im not forced to buy it. But if i do buy it, it is mine. Its a trade. The foundation of all civilisation for thousands of years. Suddenly companies think they can change this definition to mean i dont own things i trade for. I think that before this becomes Ok we need to grab it by the balls and let them know that actually it ISNT. Other companies may try this. I can damn well own things i pay for. Christ, im not pirating, im purchasing and im PUNISHED. I dont support piracy, but hell i can see where the temptation is. Its a message. A message you cannot decide we dont own things we pay for. You ignored my examples, dont you agree they are unfair? They are similar. The 1984 thing was rather theatrical, more than it was a proper comparison.

Its becoming increasingly clear that software, which is an intangible thing, cant follow those same guidelines of ownership. Intellectual Property Rights are muddled when it comes to software. Think for a second about the OS you are using right now. Unless you are using Linux, which you probably are according to your previous post, you dont own the OS. You are buying the rights to use it, not own it.

I have no intention to get into an intellectual argument about EULAs. My position about them is that yes they are flawed but they serve a purpose which shortsighted people seem to forget. To protect the person/company that made it from having it being abused. I have never felt that by signing a EULA, which I've done countless times, I was signing away my soul or shoving a red hot poker up my ass. I feel people are just having an attitude of "if a company makes something, it shouldnt belong to them" and acting like babies.

 

[The3rdEye]

Not surprising.

The more known an organization becomes, the larger it becomes.
The larger an organization becomes, the more likely certain elements will enter the organization.
As more of that element enters the organization, the likelihood of internal strife and discord increases.
If measures aren't taken to keep things under control, well shit happens. [see OP]

Of course this all assumes that the original Anon group is aware and responsible for this and that they are not "merely" the acts of either a) imitators or b)a dissident faction within Anon. Either way assuming that this isn't all merely so much smoke, I'm guessing that Anon will act fast to either disprove or confirm that this "splinter group" is operating under official "Anon sanction". Where it goes from there is grim business at best.

 

[Agayek]

As I said when I edited the post, if Hotz had just modified his PS3 he would have gone unnoticed, but its the fact that he published how he did it along with source code (or whatever the code was) to the public on the internet, which was then virally sent around the internet is what brought this whole thing to a boil.

Except the fact that he distributed it is irrelevant. What you're saying is the equivalent of someone posting a step-by-step instruction guide to replacing their carburetor with a non-factory standard one. It's literally exactly the same.

Hotz went online and said "Use this to modify your console to do X". Any of a billion car part guides on the internet do the same thing, literally "Do this to make your car do X". Why the hell isn't Joe the Mechanic being sued by GM? The logic is the same. Either it's permissible to modify all of your property, or none of it. And I know which one I'd rather have.

 

[HyenaThePirate]

One should be allowed to do anything they want with one's own property, regardless of all other concerns. The entire problem I have with this lawsuit is that that's what it's targeting. Piracy isn't even peripherally involved. Some schmuck wanted to mess with his property and Sony didn't like it. That's the whole lawsuit in a nutshell.

No you can't. I can't hack my direct tv satellite dish to allow me to beam broadcasts to televisions around the world. I can't use my cctv cameras in my store to make voyeur videos of women in the bathroom. There's a ton of things out there that I can't just use my products for. They supposed to be used as intended. And Sony's issue HERE is not people modding their PS3's for their own purposes... Again, nobody is trying to mod their ps3 to make spreadsheets or to run their home security system. They are doing it with the motivation of playing games they did not buy, and I don't care how many excuses people make at the end of the day THIS is the ultimate goal of Ps3 modders by and large. To claim anything else is not only being dishonest, it's being ignorant.

So yeah, for the one or two guys out there who were hoping to use the PS3 linux to run the millions of scenarios on their dna research project, it's a tough loss. But that isn't what most people want it for. If you want to do that, there are more powerful and elegant computer systems available than a blu-ray playing HOME GAMING CONSOLE. Most people want to play pirated games. You won't ever convince me otherwise. All the proof you need is to take a look at any PS3 hacking/modding website and its forums and you'll see EXACTLY what everyone is looking to "do" with their system.