Anonymous Uncovers Corruption in Wisconsin Labor Dispute

[radarbsm]

I would have said something closer to the bill is not that bad, and everyone is over reacting. But the commercials that are for the bill are just terrible. Who ever made them should be shot. I mean you should not claim that the public workers are in it for special interest but then the bill has special interest invested in the public workers. I think every one needs to calm down and have some group talks with the governor because nothing will get done at this rate. Then we will end up having the bill signed in late like we did a few years ago.

 

[ckam]

Anonymous is just becoming more and more like a hero to me. Damn, they're almost like Batman.

 

[daltonlaffs]

Before Anonymous seemed to be only interested in closing virtual pools

That was a group called the Patriotic Nigras, as far as I know Anonymous had no involvement in the Habbo pool raid. Where Anonymous tends to use their power to do the right thing, PN used their (thankfully far less far-reaching) power to screw with people only in the most obnoxious and cruel ways possible. They're a pretty small group now, probably because they managed to piss their own members off.

On-topic: Go, Anonymous, go! I really wouldn't be surprised if the efforts of Anonymous in the middle east earned them a role of power in a country or two, and I, for one, think a country ruled by the anons would simultaneously be a perfect form of government and a real-world version of 4chan.

 

[realslimshadowen]

He ran on this as this as his platform and won.

Swing and a miss [http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2011/02/28/wisconsin-gov-scott-walker-didnt-campaign-on-union-busting]. Try again.

Doesn't negate the fact that they did the exact same thing in Indiana and it worked out fine for everyone.

They haven't even voted on that yet in Indiana, so it kind of does.

They did this a couple years back.

Really?

...source? I can't find anything to that effect. All I can find is that a very similar bill in Indiana was dropped in the last week of February because of similar methodology to what's been done in Wisconsin and the Republicans deciding not to try it again for a while.

Mitch Daniel's ended collective bargaining in Indiana 5 years ago with an executive order. There isn't that much on it because it wasn't a very big deal.
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/28/134111630/indiana-gov-mitch-daniels-tough-on-budgets
There is a vast difference between public unions and private unions. When a private union wants more money who pays for it? The company hey work for. If they ask for too much the company goes broke. This is not the case of public unions. If they want more money for their members the taxpayer pays for it because government can't go out of business. There is no balance system in place to keep something like that in check. This is why FDR didn't include this for public unions in the Wagner act which gave the right for private unions to public bargaining. Also I just want to add that there are way more public unions nowadays than private unions.

Oooh, neat. Thanks!

That being said, Daniels is still a moron on public unions--he called them "privileged elite"...after he did an executive order (so it wasn't the exact same thing, at all) stripping them of their collective bargaining power and was still pushing until the recent Wisconsin furor to strip them of their remaining rights--and it did not work out fine for everyone. Most people left the public unions. Total employment in the state decreased between 2004 and 2009, while the national average climbed, and per capita income dropped from 18th to 40th in the Union (if you'll forgive the term) in the same period. (Note: not saying this is all due to kicking public unions in the goolies--doubtless the 2008 downturn was a big part--but it can't have helped.)

As for number of public vs. private unions:

a) Duh. That's what happen when tradiontal blue collar (i.e. private-sector union) work like manufacturing gets outsourced and most of the low-level jobs left are all for corporate giants that oppose unions. There's not a Starbucks Barista Friendly and Benevolent Society, or a Most Noble Order of the Wal-Mart Greeters. There's the UAW, of course...and I will admit you couldn't get me to open up that can of worms with the jaws of life.

b) What does that have to do with the price of oranges in Kyrgyzstan?

 

[CosmicCommander]

Thugs? I haven't heard about any violence at the WI rallies yet, but I'm sure you know something I don't. Just keep an eye out for palm trees. [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/02/wisconsin-protests-fox-news-sacramento_n_830314.html]

I don?t even watch Fox News. Every person who opposes you isn?t an ideology-driven, neo-con nut you know. And I just oppose how they?re verging on closing the entire state?s infrastructure.

Why so angry?

I hate Public Sector Unions, that?s why.

One image/individual =/= A whole political movement. I?ve seen dozens of scans of placards carried by various WI protestors. They?re so tasteful.

Seeing as he's conducting economic reform, and is utilizing power democratically vested in him, it's a stretch to say he's a dictator. And yes, these do not represent every single one of the protesters. I am not implying otherwise, but these seem to be an extremely significant portion of protesters.

High standards, sure. But a vow of poverty?

When you take a public sector job, you should agree to certain restrictions and laws that govern your pay and benefits- it's at the expense of the public at large, hence they should be as frugal as possible with what is given, without impacting the service.

[citation needed] Preferrably not Glenn Beck or WorldNetDaily.

Okay. [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110222/tr_ac/7915632_wisconsin_doctors_being_investigated_for_fake_sick_notes]

Some jobs are so important that the people doing them must be unable to bargain in them?

It makes perfect sense. If these people wanted higher pay and the possibility of better benefits, they'd go to the private sector. Seeing as the US has a $1.3 trillion [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11556037] budget deficit, frugality is a great virtue.

I think there's a flaw in your reasoning. (Actually, a LOT of flaws, but I'll start with this one.)

Being a cocky little git doesn't add any credibility to anything you say.

 

[agnosticOCD]

Amen. The corporatist greed that rules the present market is being mistaken for free market capitalism. (No wonder there are so many leftist groups in my country)

How exactly are we supposed to tell the difference, given that "free market" always seems to degenerate into "corporatist greed"?

The difference, to be brief, is that any society under a state is not a free market. Corporatism arises from what? Lobbying the state, creating monopolies and keeping small businesses from being able to compete. That is corporatism, not capitalism and certainly not what many voluntarist anarcho-capitalists such as myself would call a truly "free" market.

Amen. You beat me to this one, but I couldn't have said it better myself. Nice to see there's at least one other anarchocapitalist here. (Although I kind of hate that term, because I'm an anarchist first and a capitalist second.)

And to everybody else, google Murray Rothbard, he said it better than any of us could.

I'm surprised to see someone here who knows Rothbard too. I even had an article by this guy as a reference for one of my English position papers. Genius that's recognized.

Also, to help narrow down your searches, also google Murray Rothbard's "For a New Liberty". Awesome read.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

i will forever remember them as the assholes who sexually and physically threatened an 11 year old girl, and no amount of uncovering conspiracies is going to change that.

 

[Atmos Duality]

I had the physical opportunity to meet one of those missing democratic Wisconsin state senators in person; they've been hiding out amongst a variety of cheap, low profile hotels and motels around the Chicagoland area.

It's become something of a game around here; a political "Pop-goes-the-weasel".
I wonder what the going rate for state senators is amongst bounty hunters...or maybe I should treat it as a civil service. That way I can get it as tax credit instead.

So sorry if Anonymous's news flash of "corruption in government" seems a tad outdated to some of us; big business and government have been in bed together long for the last 150 years of our country's history.

 

[CosmicCommander]

Why?

I share The Economist's view. [http://www.economist.com/node/17849199?story_id=17849199] They're too powerful, they enjoy too many benefits

And how do you feel about private-sector unions? Are they OK, or does the mere sight of peasants attempting to defy the will of their rightful owners fill you with irrational fury?

I'm fine about the concept and basic function of unions, actually; the right for workers to get a fair deal is a good one. However- I will vehemently oppose Public Sector Unions, or Private Sector ones that receive Government sponsorship. They should be private entities meant for the benefit of their members- not, like we have in UK unions, hierarchies meant to stand in the way of progress and serve their leaders interests.

Having said that, why did you post more images?

I had a feeling that you'd reply with this- I was just trying to put into context a lot of the sentiment of the crowds.

Also, they may be comparing the governor to Hitler, but I don't see any death threats.

True. But that image you also posted earlier could be taken as a non-death threat. Am I the only one who finds the Hitler rhetoric disgusting? Hitler killed millions. Walker is curbing Union rights.

Saying Walker is like Hitler detracts from the gravity of the crimes committed by the Third Reich.

They're wrong - Walker's more like Mussolini, but he's not as well-known.

He got in democratically, he's using democratic powers, and he is not suppressing dissent. How is he like Mussolini for conducting economic reform?

Economic reform? The teacher's union ALREADY AGREED TO PAY & BENEFIT CUTS. He's just breaking unions for the Greater Glory of the Eternal Reagan.

I'd like to refer you to an excellent article I recently by Thomas J. DiLorenzo, an Economics professor from Maryland; it sums up my sentiments extremely well. [http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo203.html]

First of all, "frugality" will remain a bad joke in politics until the US quits spending as much money on military crapola as the next ten countries COMBINED.

True. However, cutting other expenditures can't hurt.

Secondly, I'm sure when some of these teachers got into public school teaching, it DID pay less than corporate jobs. It's hardly their fault that Our Benevolent Corporate Overlords have been tightening the screws steadily over the last few decades, now is it? Asking them to join the rest of us in the hosing so YOU don't have to feel like a sucker seems a bit mean-spirited.

I'm not following your point here.

 

[CosmicCommander]

Yeah, I'm thinking they might have a certain ideological bias.

They have a point. Complaining about their ideological bias instead of addressing what they say is just dodging the bullet.

Because Government workers DON'T deserve a fair deal?

No. They are employed by the taxpayer- and as of such their pay should be as low as possible, to ensure their pay serves the interests of the taxpayer- and Unions get in the way of this. They utilize and exploit the mechanisms of Government to satisfy their needs (another reason I dislike Public Secter Unions).

Yeah, that's what businesses are for.

Seeing as businesses are attributable for a lot of progress made in the past (and in the present), I'm not even gonna start on that one. Businesses are entities meant to serve their owners and shareholders- Unions are made to protest to businesses the conditions of workers. At what point should it be tolerable to subvert a Union to a hierarchy that leeches off of their members' employers, and serves the interests of the chairmen.

It's like a charity that serves aid to impoverished countries giving it all to their trustees to scoff. It's subversive, and disgusting.

It's not about "economic reform". It's public record that the state Teacher's Union ALREADY AGREED to the benefit and wage cuts, then Governor Walker decided to do the Holy Work of Lord Reagan and give them an extra curbstomp for good measure.

It's to ensure the Unions lose the cleavage needed to bother the Government, and so taxpayer money can be distributed effectively. And you never read either of those articles I gave you, did you? Because you're completely missing the point.

BLUH BLUH.

You'll note that the police and firefighter's unions in WI, two SIGNIFICANTLY more life-and-death jobs than teaching, aren't having THEIR collective bargaining rights taken away yet.

I'd imagine he will take them away at some point. Not doing it now is only common sense- if all collective bargaining rights in Wisconsin's public sector were simultaneously taken away, there'd be nothing short of anarchy. If they are gradually revoked, risk will be dramatically reduced. Still, I hardly see how this is relevant.

No, no you're not.

At least have the decency to make replies to what I say. I didn't get your wording there, and I was asking you to explain. Being a dick and making some stupid, half-arsed, and not-even-funny quips and comments doesn't add anything to what you say. Stop trying to act like TheAmazingAtheist, will you?

 

[Rainboq]

The Revolution will not be Televised ...it will be Tweeted

It will be Digged.
It will be FaceBooked.
It will be Blogged.
It will be Podcasted.
It will be GLORIOUS!

OT: Unions are a mixed bag, but taking them away leaves employees open to being abused.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Grassroots? I think you mean astroturf. HEYOOOO!

 

[Fuselage]

i will forever remember them as the assholes who sexually and physically threatened an 11 year old girl, and no amount of uncovering conspiracies is going to change that.

Did you see what the girl did in the first place?
She had what was coming to her.
Sorry this is off topic but this needs to be cleared up.

 

[La Barata]

And that's why I'm glad that I live in Canada, even though we have this kind of on-going feud between the Government and the Teacher's Unions.

Don't even get me STARTED on Mike Fucking Harris.