Another thread about sexism in video games.

Ezekiel

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Also, Claire's tank top and coat outfit was another concept they had, but did not get put in the original RE2.
You mean to tell me a concept that wasn't used for one project almost made it into the next. Something like that never happens. Wait...





Why does it matter if both were conceptualized for the characters originally if, in the end, they still came up with unique outfits for both? That's the difference. In the 1990s, video games didn't have one kind of stock outfit that was used again and again. Well, except maybe the muscular man in a wife beater. That one was kind of lame too.

Capcom clearly does not give a shit and have 0 fucks. I agree.
Capcom does care, but not about the people who want more flair in clothing. They care about a vocal minority of people who will come out and complain if certain types of clothing are chosen. They're afraid of getting that kind of attention for some reason, so they won't even experiment. The slim jeans and bare shoulders and cleavage of the tank top show off just enough that they can still attract the horny male gamers without upsetting the aforementioned group. It's popular because it's attractive and inoffensive.
 
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BrawlMan

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You mean to tell me a concept that wasn't used for one project almost made it into the next. Something like that never happens.
Never said nor implied. You are assuming. Try and think harder next time.

In the 1990s, video games didn't have one kind of stock outfit that was used again and again.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! You must really have your nostalgia goggles on too tight. Don't get wrong, the 90s and 2000s had plenty of unique outfits and characters designs in video games. Japan especially, but their plenty of games that followed templates, trends, or design and fashion choices in vogue or were the style at the time. Sometimes for the better, and some times for the worse. Every decade has had this. It's only a problem now, because you don't like change and want nearly everything to stay the same with little change.

They care about a vocal minority of people who will come out and complain if certain types of clothing are chosen. They're afraid of getting that kind of attention for some reason, so they won't even experiment.
Don't blame it on the "SJWs" or overly sensitive biatches that don't bother with gaming in the first place. We call that the cowardly scapegoating. Capcom did so just to experiment with different ideas, and use concepts they did not get a chance to use the first time around. This is nothing new as Capcom has always done shit like this. You did not bother to notice until now. You know how many times they made RE4, only to drop the concept and it becomes a new game/franchise? Or is saved for another RE installment. Hello Devil May Cry and Haunting Ground!

The costume flair is still there in the games, if you bother to fucking look. See RE8, DMC5, or even Street Fighter V. Now DMC5 takes some elements from DmC (2013) of keeping Dante and Nero's outfits semi-grounded, but the same can't be said of V's, Vergil's, Trish's or Lady's outfit. And even then, Dante and Nero still act like their over-the-top and hammy selves.

The closest Capcom ever got to "pandering to the SJWs" was censoring the ass shots of Cammy and R.Mika. The SJWs had nothing to do with that one, and it was complaints from fucking ESPN of all networks! This was when Capcom was obsessed with pandering to the "professional sports/fighting game" crowd instead of making a fucking fun game first and foremost! ESPN certainly has no right to complain and comes off as very fucking hypocritical, so they can fuck off even harder.

There is also, the minor censorship of Lady and Trish's ass with the lens flare effect, but that was only on PS4, because they were afraid of Sony's dumb ass policy, even though both women are adults. Lady is in her damn 40s. Capcom later patched it out to make the scenes uncensored again since Sony clearly did not have a problem. I remember some dumb random yahoo on YouTube refused to support the game, because of "censorship". Even though the dumb ass did not have a PS4, had an XBOX One (meaning the scenes are already uncensored), and PC version did not have the "censorship" either. It's dumb asses like him, that are not making gaming better. Especially if they refuse to support game that had sequel gap for the whole decade. People like that usually don't care much for games to begin with, and only want their T&A; nothing else matter to them. Shows pathetic and idiotic certain people will choose to be for the dumbest reasons. That's not taking a stand; that's being a whiny, punk-ass biatch. Jokes on him; DMC5 is the best selling game in the franchise now. Capcom got their money, so his "stance" means nothing in the grand scheme of things.
 
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Ezekiel

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Never said nor implied. You are assuming. Try and think harder next time.
I didn't imply that you implied it, but the point of posting those Star Wars pictures was to point out how worthless it is to go off what the original concepts were. What kind of justification for Claire and Jill is that even if both still had unique outfits in 1998 and '99. It shouldn't even be a matter of practicality, since neither of them expected to be in a zombie outbreak. Look up 1990s female fashion and you'll find all kinds of clothes. So what are the chances that Jill and Claire, in '98, would dress the same?
 
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BrawlMan

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What kind of justification for Claire and Jill is that even if both still had unique outfits in 1998 and '99. It shouldn't even be a matter of practicality, since neither of them expected to be in a zombie outbreak.
I'll give credit for Claire since she at least had the biker motif going on with her shorts, and rolled on in town without knowing. It's a concept from when before Claire, there was Elza Walker with the biker suit on. Remember her?!



Jill was no excuse, other than fan-service. Jill was at least held up in her apartment for a while, and we don't know how long she was held up there. Given the context, she was held there for a quite a while in OG RE3 before that explosion where Jill jumped out of her apartment. Lady could have changed at any point in time while she was held up. Given how resoruceful Jill can be, it would have been more in character for her get out of that outfit when she had time in her home. We don't even know how or why the explosion happens. It just does, because action!

Your complaints boil down to a cross between "Waaahhhh, I want my fan-service!" and a kid crying for a toy he knows he can't have.
 

Ezekiel

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No, Jill wasn't prepared. She didn't except it.

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"Little does she know," it said.

Her TV was getting terrible reception, so she didn't see the news.

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She said that she planned to leave Racoon City in three days. It's on her calendar.

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The board on her wall implied that she was still trying to piece together what happened.

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But what reason did she have to believe the outbreak spread beyond the mansion? Do you really think she would have stayed in her jeans and boots for three more days in her own apartment? Not something more comfortable?

You call it fan service, I call it originality. Flair. If the fan service would bother you (as if a tank top isn't fan service), then there are plenty of other outfits to choose from. Why slim jeans and a tank top again? Rhetorical question. It's for that vocal minority.
 
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BrawlMan

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No, Jill wasn't prepared. She didn't except it.
You do know I was referring to the original and not the remake right? Hence why I have that specific time stamp on the PS1 version. Jill was at least aware of the zombies in the og version, and held herself up in to her apartment for that reason. She could have changed at some point.

Do you really think she would have stayed in her jeans and boots for three more days in her own apartment? Not something more comfortable?
Anything is more comfortable than a skirt. Yes, expose your legs where the zombies and other monstrous creatures are most likely to bite you. At least the boots and denim can add some protection.

You call it fan service, I call it originality.
Walking out of the late 1990s Victoria's Secret Catalogue in to the city wide, zombie apocalypse, is not what I would call original.

If the fan service would bother you, then there are plenty of other outfits to choose from.
The fan service does not bother me, but I am not afraid to call it out for what it is exactly supposed to be. I don't make pathetic excuses.
Why slim jeans and a tank top again?
Practical and better than running around in a skirt. Actual pockets and small things she can carry without putting them in her secret compartment. Capcom's excuse for the time was "Raccoon City had a heatwave". Even the remake tosses this, because how shallow the excuse is for the fan-service. Besides, Jill is pretty slim, so those type of clothing would fit her.
 
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Cicada 5

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I find it funny that they can give Jill D size breasts but putting her in a skirt again or something other than the standard, safe jeans and tank top is a giant no-no. Such an uninteresting look.

View attachment 5433

The "classic" outfit (now with a skort) wasn't well updated and is very out of place within the photorealism.
How are those d-sized?
 
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Hawki

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But what reason did she have to believe the outbreak spread beyond the mansion? Do you really think she would have stayed in her jeans and boots for three more days in her own apartment? Not something more comfortable?

You call it fan service, I call it originality. Flair. If the fan service would bother you (as if a tank top isn't fan service), then there are plenty of other outfits to choose from. Why slim jeans and a tank top again? Rhetorical question. It's for that vocal minority.
The remake's a bit weird in this regard. My understanding of it is that Jill's aware of what's going on in RC to some extent, but is caught offguard by just how bad things have gotten. Which isn't totally unreasonable, given how quickly a virus can multiply (cough*Covid*cough*), but it doesn't really sync with canon. The T-virus vials spill on September 22, Outbreak (the game) begins on September 24th (which has main street crawling with zombies in the first scenario), and by September 28th, things are even more shit?

On the other hand, something I really like about RE3 remake (that I haven't seen anyone else discuss) is that in the opening part of the game (i.e. everything before leaving on the train), if you pay attention, you can see how bad things are getting. The game starts with a literal boom, and has police cars and helicopters active. Cut to Downtown, and if you get close to police cars, you can overhear RPD chatter. Later on, if you go back to those cars, they've fallen silent - Raccoon City has basically 'died' while you were doing your thing.

So, yeah. It's a bit awkward, but TL, DR, I think Jill's aware of what's happening, but just underestimated how bad things were getting, in part because she couldn't leave her appartment due to Irons' men.

Concerning Jill's attire in RE3 vs. the remake...honestly, this is making a mountain out of a molehill. I actually kind of prefer the remake version, because let's be honest, the tube top is more fan service than anything else. It's arguably a step back for Jill in RE1 (whose clothing wasn't any less practical than the male STARS members), and while it's iffy as to the circumstances in the original game as to what caused the explosion in her appartment block, and why she chose to leave then, and there, a tube top isn't practical in a city where creatures want to bite you, and where your protagonist is well aware as to how dangerous the risk of infection is. The remake, alternatively, allows Jill to be a bit more modest, gives her an excuse as to why she didn't suit up (literally), and, IMO, still keeps Jill looking pretty attractive.

I prefer RE3 original to the remake at the end of the day, but Jill's attire has nothing to do with that.
 
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Ezekiel

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I don't even want the tube top either. Especially with this version of RE3 being more photorealistic. Although, the skirt was form-fitting and short, so not easy to grab. But, again, if you prefer more practical attire, there are plenty of other options to choose from. Look up neckline types and female top types and you'll see plenty. Or search 1990s female fashion for some inspirations. For sleeves, you can do cap sleeves, short sleeves, 3/4, full. For bottoms: full length pants, shorts, skirt over tights, capri (3/4 length). For pant materials, you can try something other than slim denim again. Even roomier slacks with higher waistlines can look very sexy. You don't want to repeat yourself so much visually. Lucas and Spielberg got that when they made Temple of Doom, dying Kate Capshaw's hair blonde to distinguish her from Marion Ravenwood in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Though, if I could only change one of their outfits (because one of them HAS to be changed), it would be Claire's. She seems like she'd be less serious than the police officer.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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...uh, so where's this idea that Capcom changed it to cater to SJWs come from anyway?

Kinda feel like that's the unexamined assumption being made
 
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Ezekiel

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...uh, so where's this idea that Capcom changed it to cater to SJWs come from anyway?

Kinda feel like that's the unexamined assumption being made
Just something I have to presume from it being such a common outfit and them choosing the same one for two games only a year and a number apart.

Any character designer who puts jeans and a tank top on their female protagonist should be embarrassed. As should the studio heads and executives who mandate that. Like we don't have enough of those. Sometimes the tank tops are under jackets.

Chloe Frazer - She wore slim cargo pants in Uncharted 2. In The Lost Legacy, she wore jeans. Her shirt at least had cap sleeves. It wasn't another tank top.

Elena Fisher - She wore capri pants in the first Uncharted. Since then, she has worn jeans. Uncharted 4 has her wearing jeans and a tank top.

Nilin from Remember Me - Not as recent as my other examples. I replayed it over the last week.

Claire Redfield from the Resident Evil 2 remake - Her clothes aren't even accurate to typical 1990s fashion.

Jill Valentine from the Resident Evil 3 remake - There was actually nothing wrong with her wearing a skirt in the original. Like Claire in RE2, she wasn't expecting to be in a zombie apocalypse. She was attacked in her apartment or hotel.

Jesse Faden from Control

Joanna Dark from the new Perfect Dark - We can see that she wears jeans in the teaser. I bet she wears a tank top under the jacket.

Lara Laura Croft from Tomb Raider

There are so many other practical choices, if you're aiming for realism/grit (Like we don't have enough of that.) and the protagonist is able to prepare for the situation. It's pretty obvious why they do it. The tank top and slim jeans allow them to show just enough of the body to please the horny male gamers but not so much that a certain other group of people will get angry. It's the most inoffensive, bland, safe combination there is.
I'm sure there are plenty others I forgot.
 

Casual Shinji

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The scrapes and cuts in games are too much. It's a wonder none of them have scars all over in the sequels. More bruises, please. Those heal. Bothers me in Max Payne 3 as well. That there is no way to turn off the stupid gunshot wounds on Max and keep them on everyone else.

The gunshots in Max Payne 3 are pretty ridiculous, but I like seeing scrapes, cuts, and dirt on characters as they move forward. They probably don't do bruises much since that would cover larger areas of the face, while cuts indicate significant injury yet leave the majority of the face untouched. Honestly, I wouldn't mind a damage system that goes full Paul Dano in Prisoners.
 
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bluegate

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I'll give credit for Claire since she at least had the biker motif going on with her shorts, and rolled on in town without knowing. It's a concept from when before Claire, there was Elza Walker with the biker suit on. Remember her?!


1980s and 1990s anime aesthetic is the best...​
 
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Ezekiel

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'80s anime aesthetic was the best. '90s was when the decline started, with stuff like Outlaw Star (which I like, but still).
 

BrawlMan

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Just something I have to presume from it being such a common outfit and them choosing the same one for two games only a year and a number apart.
Like I told you before, you assumed. They chose to do so for their own artistic or aesthetical reason. I already gave you details.

'90s was when the decline started, with stuff like Outlaw Star (which I like, but still).
No, it's started in the early 2000s when many anime where either switching to digital or splicing in CGI that looks out of place, or horribly dated. Most of the time. There were a couple that pulled this off okay. Hellsing (2001) was one of the first to go all digital instead of cells, and it shows. The coloring and lightning is God awful. It's not like 80s anime was perfect either. There was plenty of crap back then, no different from what was in the 90s. I admit there a lot of 90s anime I prefer personally, but there are still some ones from the 80s like too. Besides, no decade was ever perfect, and I am so sick of this, "Anime was better in this time, compared to now!" Yes, the days of the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s had plenty of greats, they all had plenty of misses too. Yes, anime is more homogenized now, but having the wild west of varying quality did the genre no favors. Plus, there is still good anime out there, just take the extra effort to find it. I am sick of this dumb diatribe about how "everything was better back then!". It's a dumb illusion that needs to die.

 
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TheMysteriousGX

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Just something I have to presume from it being such a common outfit and them choosing the same one for two games only a year and a number apart.
Kinda what I mean by "unexamined", yeah. Seems like it's just the Videogame Fashion of the season.
Not every lazy, trend following decision in videogames is caused by catering to SJWs
 

Ezekiel

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Like I told you before, you assumed. They chose to do so for their own artistic or aesthetical reason. I already gave you details.
If it's not that, then they're crappy character designers. Choose one. It's an uninteresting by the numbers look.
 

Ezekiel

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Snipped because my message won't load anywise.
Nobody said it was all perfect in the '80s. The '90s just had a higher degree of ugly art, and the '00s was another step down into shitty sameness.

*Skims through tl;dr article*

2222.png

Decline! Going off that picture, '80s moe was best, and the least moe.

I also skimmed to the bottom for a look at the newer shows the author thinks are great. The majority of them are the types of shows that pushed me away from anime in the first place and why I have only watched three new (to me) series in nine years.

Most anime now is...

Small, upturned noses
Slender, concave jaws
Pointed chins
Shapeless lips (probably just a single line)
Big, hollow eyes (possibly with white spots in the centers)
Lanky or child-like bodies

The pupils of the moe girl above became bigger and then smaller but are still now bigger than the 1980s girl. Her jaw became pointier and then gentler but still didn't return to the more pleasing rounded shape of the '80s girl. The shades were reduced or disappeared. Although the image is pretty small and I can't tell for sure, it seems like her lips were simplified. Her nose was turned from a triangle into a dot. 2010s girl should also ask '80 girl for her hair brush. The '90s one is the ugliest of them all, though the '00s one gives her a run for her money.
 
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