Anti-Depressants

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Johnny Impact

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arragonder said:
OP: take the fucking pills. There's something wrong with you, you're sick, you know how you get better from an illness? by taking you god damn pills.
What you're talking about is taking penicillin when you've got an infection. That is a finite, physical problem that is easy to diagnose and repair. That's fine..... as far as it goes. Now, arragonder, I'm going to use some grown-up words, so try hard to keep up.

What the REST of us are talking about is this:

Depression is the mental equivalent of having your legs chopped off. You feel like half a person, like you are BROKEN and there is absolutely NOTHING you can do about it. You see people all around you who are happy and whole but that only reinforces how INCOMPLETE you feel. After all, they managed to be happy, and they're not exactly perfect, so there must be something terribly, TERRIBLY wrong with YOU. You feel like this all the time. You can't help it. You can't just wish it away, any more than a legless person can wish their limbs back. Depression cannot be simply "cured" by a pill, or a swift kick in the ass, or any other quick and easy remedy you might devise. This is because of three things.

First, mental states and their causes are intangible abstracts which exist only inside our heads. We're not even entirely sure what thoughts or emotions ARE. This means we cannot affect them with the precision or accuracy we normally like to have in science.

Second, psychopharmacology -- real, USEFUL psychopharmacology -- is only fifty years old. That might sound like a long time to you but much of it is still experimental. Any study of thoughts or emotions is hampered by the subjects' inability accurately to describe their feelings, by the ingrained biases and opinions of the researchers, and by the limited (though large) number of chemicals which can be safely applied to the body and brain.

Third, the brain is UNIMAGINABLY complicated. Imagine the brain as a series of connected roads, FAR larger and more complex than all the roads in the world put together. Now imagine you have to deliver a package to an address somewhere on one of those roads. Now imagine half the roads are one-way. Only 10% of the roads have signs. Now imagine for every wrong turn you make, catastrophic damage will occur -- a tunnel collapsing, a 100-car pileup, whatever. You begin to see the impossibility of "curing" a mental state with the simple application of pills.

What this all means is pills designed to change your emotions must be VERY carefully concocted and administered and EVEN THEN they come with a host of problems. They use some potentially very complex chemicals which inevitably have potentially dubious effects. Often they do not FIX the problem, they merely let you TRADE your problem for a NEW problem you MAY OR MAY NOT find less annoying than the original problem. For example, a friend of mine can't drive cars or take tae kwon do anymore because he's on medicine which, as a side effect, whacks out his balance and coordination. I am not making this up. He takes antipsychotics to trade uncontrollable episodes of hostility (a problem) for having to give up cars, martial arts, and other things (a different problem).

Now, to return to the legs-chopped-off analogy: People without legs can use wheelchairs in the hope of experiencing a reasonable quality of life, but anyone in a wheelchair can tell you there are long, long lists of things regular folks take for granted which the wheelchair-bound simply cannot ever do. Many of the "normal" things that *can* be done from a wheelchair take so much longer or are so awkward that it might be better not to try. The wheelchair isn't a cure for the problem, it's just the best we can do. Antidepressants are the same thing: They don't make you better, they just let you roll along as best you can. The choice to take them is neither obvious nor ideal.
 

WorldCritic

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Kinda been in a weird situation with anti-depressants. A few years ago a psychiatrist misdiagnosed my pesimistic middle-school attitude for depression and had me start taking meds. Turns out that the meds were actually making my attitude worse and were giving me chronic headaches, so much so that I frequently found myself being sent home from school. So yeah, I don't think anti-depressants are such a good idea, but I've never been actually depressed before so my advice is limited.
 

Johnny Impact

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To OP: Nobody on the Escapist forums is qualified to tell you what to do. I have been walking the borderland between normalcy and clinical depression for as long as I can remember and have found nothing which combats it effectively. If I felt any better I could almost have a life; if I felt any worse I'd have killed myself long since. I wish I had something better to tell you.
 

d3structor

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well, I probably have clinical depression. I have regular (daily) thoughts of suicide for as long as I can remember (about fourth grade or so). I am going to see a psychologist tomorrow (or today) and see what to do about it. Since both my sister and father have had to go on anti-depressants I think eventually I will be put on them too.

Don't see how much they can help but don't see how they can make things much worse at this point.

My advice: do what you think will help you, maybe its something as simple as working out and getting a better self image of your self. maybe it is talking to a therapist, and maybe it is drugs.

I think the fact that you are trying to get better will have at least as much impact as the "help" itself.
 

Womplord

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NameIsRobertPaulson said:
I am supposed to be on Anti-Depressants, but I hate mind altering medication, so I skip it 90% of the time. It works for some people though, just against my personal rules.
Um, that doesn't seem like a good idea... doesn't it take like a month for it to work after you have been taking it regularly, so wouldn't that mean it doesn't work? And I also heard that the weird feeling of being in an altered state of mind goes away.
 

II2

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The_Healer said:
Before you take drugs, try taking up exercise.

Don't look at me like that. Exercise is very good for your mental health.
Listen to this guy. Exercise is good for all body systems, brain included. If you're fighting depression - EXERCISE.

@OP

I've been in psychiatric treatment for about 12 years now, presently medicated at:

Sertraline (Zoloft) - 200mg/d
Trazadone (Desyrel) - 50mg/d
Clonazepam (Klonopin) - 4mg/d
Propanolol (Inderal) - 40mg/d

- Quetiapine (Seroquel)
- Rispiridone (Respiridal)
- Fluoxetine (Prozac)
- Paroxetine (Paxil)
- Venlafaxine (Effexor)
- Citalopram (Celexa)
- Diazepam (Valium)
- Lorazepam (Ativan)
- Zopiclone (Imovane)
- Neurontin (Gabapentin)
- Bupropion (Wellbutrin)

First off, rather than "the blues" my experience with major, chronic unipolar Depression is that of listlessness, lethargy, confusion and numbness. It's a lot like spending your life half drunk without the buzz, except when you feel mind general anxiety or accute panic attacks which are usually part and parcel with depression for most.

Second, do your own research and take an active role in your own treatment. YOU know what's right and works for YOU. If something makes you feel REALLY BAD right from the onset, get off that shit. There's a lot of TYPES of medicines used to treat depression - do research and take some summary notes on all of them. One thing from my own experience to strongly avoid unless you are REALLY out of options is the increasingly prevalent (and disturbing) use of anti-psychotics as off label depression treatment. You don't want to be on anti-psychotics for a variety of reasons.

Basically, QUESTION what they give you and look it up. Some of it MAY help, but Doctors approach to psychiatry these days seem to be to load a shotgun full of pills and aim it at you. Certainly happened to me.

Third, yeah, being on meds sucks and I'm hoping to reduce or possibly even eliminate my use of psychiatric medications in the future, but at the same time, lots of people live on meds they need and we all get on with a relatively normal life: Diabetics, heart patients, etc. Ultimately, it's not THAT restrictive.

G'luck.

Also, props to Johnny Impact on a good post on a lot of stuff that's true but I didn't talk about.

EDIT:

Also, on a more upbeat note, for all the problems I've had - detailed somewhat in the above post - post, I've lead a good goddamn life and I recognize my good fortune along with whatever issues I've faced. Woe ISN'T me, I'm just a guy with some issues, same as anyone else and I take no relish in being a gloomy prat when I know I can find some humor in life and my own problems and laugh when I can. :)
 

Tallim

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Double A said:
Isn't one of the side-effects they list "thoughts of suicide?"

Can someone please explain to me how the fuck thinking about suicide isn't a sign of being even more depressed? Why don't we just call anti-depressants "depressants?"

Anyway, don't. If you smoke, stop doing that. Smoking is a depressant. Play more video games with friends and watch more funny TV shows and web videos is my diagnosis, for all the good it'll do you. I guess My Little Pony would help? I dunno, I'm not a doctor. Then again, I don't get paid to subscribe people medicine, which is probably why your doc wants you on anti-depressants.
Most "long term" medication has a risk of side effects they are designed to combat. Especially ones that deal with brain chemistry as it takes a while for it to settle at an equilibrium.

Side effect lists always cheer me up anyway, there are some cracking ones on some medication. The nerve blockers I get prescribed have one possible side effect "Unusual walking style" that just conjured up images of the Ministry of Silly Walks in my head.


I know in the UK, at least on the NHS, government targets and evaluations prefer doctors NOT to prescribe anything that isn't necessary. They didn't give me my medication until the final thing they tried simply because the drugs are very expensive. Thanks to the NHS I get them for free but if I had to pay for them myself they would cost me £100 a month approximately.
 

Doclector

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NinjaDeathSlap said:
I have bi-polar and I'm refusing treatment, heres why...

It's a part of who I am, whether I like it or not. It's been with me for so long that it's had a hand in most of the things I've done with my life. When I think about it, if I had never been suffering from the frequent bouts of self loathing and the general identity crisis I had when I was growing up, even before I knew what it meant, I would have never sought refuge in the characters I could create with my own imagination, so I would never have discovered and honed my talent for acting, which is the only path I can possibly conceive myself going down in the future. So as torturous as it's been at times, I owe most of who I am to it.

So if I accepted the pills and the therapy, I might become docile, and stable, but I wouldn't be me anymore, which would mean that all I have suffered in my life so far will have meant nothing. If I have to suffer for an art so be it, because surely that's better than not having an art at all. I'm going to do better than simply 'cure' myself. I'm going to life with my illness and make something great out of it.

(This is an entirely personal and subjective reasoning though, so unless you can relate to anything I've said I wouldn't follow my lead)
I have something of a similar tale. I was badly bullied in school, and, to cut a long story short, my head's never been right since. I've never got it diagnosed, partially because I damn well don't care what it's called, and I had aspergers diagnosed, and that has done me no good at all. All a name did was take my eccentricities and attach a stigma, which has caused me more problems than aspergers itself. I'm going off track here.

Anyway, the dark place in my mind that causes me misery, paranoia and isolation is the same dark place which fuels my work as a filmmaker. I kill it, and it'll kill the thing that matters to me most. What's more, I think I have a shot at stopping what happened to me happening to more people. I can films on the subject, raise awareness, if I show them it with enough horror elements thrown in, they won't be able to just ignore the problem anymore.

I've had counselling to keep me stable, and the thought of a pill that could make it all go away is tempting, but I'd lose so much of myself, I really don't think it's worth it.

As said above though, you need to really think about this, though. And also, read into it wherever you can, I've heard some bad stuff about these drugs, but I've also heard some good things. You really need to take this on your own decisions.
 

Korak the Mad

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Lord Mountbatten Reborn said:
arragonder said:
OP: take the fucking pills. There's something wrong with you, you're sick, you know how you get better from an illness? by taking you god damn pills.
I hear of a lot of cases of medication, particularly for mental health, just making things worse. There is no guarantee that taking the pills will make things better.
That can be true with certain people, not me but my mother. She went on a different type of anti-depressant and it caused her to get suicidal. I found her right after she tried to kill herself, and was able to get her to the hospital right away. She has apologized for doing that and I've forgiven her.

My recommendation is take the pills, but have someone keep an eye on you to see if you try anything, because there could be a reaction to the medication and you might want to. But take the pills.
 

Terminal Blue

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II2 said:
One thing from my own experience to strongly avoid unless you are REALLY out of options is the increasingly prevalent (and disturbing) use of anti-psychotics as off label depression treatment. You don't want to be on anti-psychotics for a variety of reasons.
The reason there are lots of different types of medication is that there are lots of different types of depression. For some people (like myself at various points in the past) depression manifests itself through extreme bouts of anxiety or very strong emotional responses to otherwise mundane stimuli. For those people, anti-psychotics can be incredibly helpful. I'll admit they have quite severe side-effects and I wouldn't want to go back on them now, but when it makes the difference between someone being able to go into work or school and not being able to do those things, it's totally worth it.

One common thing people say about medication is that it makes you 'lose part of yourself', heck, I'm seeing that quite a lot in this thread, and I know that's how it feels. But bear in mind you're only seeing that from the inside. I remember when I discussed it with a friend and she just sat me down and said 'look, when you're depressed you're an absolute nightmare to be around and you're certainly not happy yourself - loosing those parts of yourself is no bad thing.' She was right.

I haven't stopped being myself through taking medication, but I've become able to ignore the worst parts of myself and the most hurtful parts of myself. It's easy to cling to intense suffering as something which gives your life meaning, it's easy to minimize it or pretend that you've made a friend of it. You never have though, and when things go to hell it will make you do unforgivable things just to try and make it better.

Medication doesn't have to be about losing anything, it can be about taking control of your own life. That doesn't make you less yourself.
 

II2

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evilthecat said:
II2 said:
One thing from my own experience to strongly avoid unless you are REALLY out of options is the increasingly prevalent (and disturbing) use of anti-psychotics as off label depression treatment. You don't want to be on anti-psychotics for a variety of reasons.
-snip-
I see what you mean, and I respect your point of view on the subject. For difficult, intractable depression or other disorders, if an off the use label of a medication can bring a person relief and let them live, rather than unable to stop themselves from becoming a failing train wreck, I'm with you: go for it.

On the flipside though, "they" tried me on anti-psychotics and it was a disaster. I'm used to a whole cornucopia of unpleasant side effects, but my own system just found both Rispiridal and Seroquel completely intolerable. In my case, it DID make me less of myself, because instead of functionality, it rendered me into a state of mute panic and fugue; it felt like someone "handcuffed" my brain. Kinda reduced me to a mumbling simpleton while all the while in some recess in the back of my mind I was keenly aware of the disconnect between my thoughts/feelings and functions. It was pretty gawd-awful repeat experience and certainly made me question the increased prevalence of their prescription to people who aren't delusional or need to stop hallucinating.

0.02
 

Terminal Blue

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II2 said:
In my case, it DID make me less of myself, because instead of functionality, it rendered me into a state of mute panic and fugue; it felt like someone "handcuffed" my brain. Kinda reduced me to a mumbling simpleton while all the while in some recess in the back of my mind I was keenly aware of the disconnect between my thoughts/feelings and functions.
That does sound.. familiar.

I'm guessing you had a bigger dose than I did. I worked up to about 2mg of Risperidone at peak. Not a big dose by any means.

Yeah, there was a certain degree of disconnect, and sometimes I would fuge out for a while and forget what I was doing. There were other things I didn't like. The lack of energy, the weight gain and constant sugar cravings, the insomnia, the memory loss. But I also went from wanting to throw myself out of a window in a fit of panic every couple of days to never feeling like that at all.

The way I saw it, with the side effects I knew what to expect, so while they sucked I just learned to accept them, and while I was not a great person to be around (I dimly remember standing this girl up because I outright forgot she'd asked me out, I'm told she cried her eyes out) I don't think I was ever truly unhappy. It was a nice rest, and while I was glad when I stopped taking my dose and my symptoms didn't recur I certainly don't regret it.

Nowadays I'm on citalopram, which in my opinion is the most amazing drug ever. I got about a month into taking it and suddenly it just worked. It was pretty excellent timing really as I was in the middle of breaking up with someone who had treated me like absolute dirt, and one day I just woke up and genuinely didn't care. I didn't have to feel like it was my fault or that I'd been a horrible person or that I actually needed that person around but was only lying to myself. I just woke up and got on with my life, and haven't stopped since.

I'm still me. I still feel my full range of emotions. I just get over them like most people do, rather than having them lingering in the background every hour of every day until I want to scream.
 

Svenparty

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Looking over this thread and the feelings the OP is describing I'm starting to realize that I probably have Depression...The feelings of hopelessness and stress that wash over Me over any work in college is sometimes unbearable.

I function with it by working hard when I can but sometimes I feel I work ridiculously long or think about things too much.
 

Johnny Impact

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arragonder said:
Hahahahaha, I find it hilarious that you're trying to tell someone with chronic depression how it's supposed to feel, or act, or respond to treatment
Well at least I made you laugh.
arragonder said:
treated with medication, if you don't take medication you'd can begin to treat the other two causes (psychological and environmental)
My reading comprehension must'd can lacking be still. If you spent a little less time talking shit and a little more time proofreading, you might not embarrass yourself.
arragonder said:
people need stop pretending the Brain isn't an organ.
When did I say this?

You talked down to OP like you knew everything. You think because your defective brain makes you feel bad you have license to treat everyone like shit.

You don't.

Get over yourself. And do it elsewhere. This forum isn't suited to people of your temperament. Good DAY sir.
 

iTeamKill

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SailorShale said:
It's something I can't control. I will be going about my day like normal then it'll hit like *bam* and I'll just want to lay down and rot. Nothing at all will happen, or I'll just wake up feeling awful.
you know, I know where you're coming from on that. I had that feeling at least 5 times a week back in grade school. My parents didn't want to put me on any medication because according to them, I didn't need it. I would "grow" out of it. When I didn't, they resorted to yelling, giving me extra chores, and even punishing me for "not being motivated" by taking away stuff like video games and not letting friends come over. Same for when I was too depressed to want to study because of the constant harassment and bullying at school. I was supposed to "toughen up and stop complaining."

I guess it kinda worked... I'm pretty normal. I'm self sufficient, I pay my bills on time. About to finish college this December. I mean, its pretty normal to not have been able to keep any single healthy relationship going for more than a month for my entire life, or to never have willingly used the word "love" in a sentence with out the other person saying it first and me simply saying it to avoid an awkward moment of silence... right??
 

SovietSecrets

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Ive taken them for fun once when I was in pill phase and I felt a bit happier over time, but nothing where I could find out how this helps people. Personally I would rather smoke a bit of weed then take a damn pill. I wish you all the best of luck to you and managing your depression no matter what route you take.
 

Nieroshai

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Antidepressants only drove me to the brink of suicide because then I felt worthless AND drugged into uselessness. That's when I discovered MMOs. Life has only gone uphill.
 

AnkaraTheFallen

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SailorShale said:
I've been on them for the past few years, and personally how I feel about them changes each day... sometimes I am fine, but other days I just get more depressed for the reasons you've said, about feeling crippled by them. Despite that I would say if you are really depressed than you should try taking them, if just to feel a little better for a while, and see how you feel about them after a bit... and a lot of meds aren't meant to last your whole life, you'll probably be gradually taken off them in the future if you take them.
As for the transgender part, your doctor is probably worried that the depression would be affecting your thinking and that you don't actually feel like that... seems a bit silly at times since in all likelihood that's what's brought about the depression.

Hope I've helped in some way and if I haven't I'm sorry.Best of luck with whatever you choose to do.

Edit: No doubt others have said this as well, but if you want to talk to someone feel free to message me.
 

Astoria

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A old friend on mine went on anit-depressants. They did her no good whatsoever and actually in a way made her worse. You need to be very careful with taking meds because if you don't get the right one for you I hear they can make you suicidal. You want to be sure that you have tried absoultely everything you can think of before going on meds because as you've said the thought alone of needing them is itself depressing and if gotten wrong they can and will make you worse.
 

Smooth Operator

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arragonder said:
The_Healer said:
Before you take drugs, try taking up exercise.

Don't look at me like that. Exercise is very good for your mental health.
No it's not "very good for your mental health." It produces dopamine and prevents things like seasonal depression, but it does nothing for clinical depression unless combined with other treatments like counseling and medication.

OP: take the fucking pills. There's something wrong with you, you're sick, you know how you get better from an illness? by taking you god damn pills.
Anti-depressants do the exact same thing, the only upside is you don't haveto move your ass to get high.
The pills are a temporary fix that will make it a bit easier to get through it(like painkillers), but they don't solve anything, you need a shrink for that.