Anti-DRM Group Aims Bricks At Nintendo

[Delusibeta]

The FSF also QQs that they're stealing all your photos. This is incorrect, as Nintendo only starts collecting photos if you send them over their service, as with pretty much every other internet service. If you don't send them over the internet, there is no problem.

Honestly, the FSF whinges too much. They do far more damage to the Open Source community than they help.

 

[BrunDeign]

What!?
So it's okay for you if microsoft makes your xbox red ring, sony stops your ps3 from working, or apple turning your iphone into a fucking glass brick if you do something to it that they don't like, because that's exactly the same as nintendo is able to do with these 3ds' that people already bought.
I can see nintendo, microsoft, or sony banning modified systems from online services or voiding warranty but how can you justify sabotaging a system that has already been paid for

1. Microsoft doesn't make your Xbox 360 red ring, that's a technical malfunction so, not the best example on your part.

2. As long as what your doing is illegal and you shouldn't be doing it in the first place then yes, you give up your privilege to use that electronic device.

3. Did no one understand that I was quoting Judge Dredd with that last line in my original post? I don't literally think that Nintendo is the law.

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

3ds is an awesome system but I think we are at the end of dedicated portable gaming devices. Why bother when android/iphones are just as good of a gaming experience?

Consoles will last a big longer until TV integration and game streaming and overall bandwidth is better but soon enough gaming will just be another channel into your house.

 

[beema]

I can certainly get behind the concept of this protest, but I really don't think it's going to accomplish anything at all.
Still I vastly prefer this method to the Anon hack all your stuff method, since in the end it accomplishes the same thing (absolutely nothing) but it doesn't harm any innocent bystanders in the process.

Or they could just go by Nintendo and throw bricks at their windows.

 

[Mister Benoit]

Oh dear, I bet the guys at Nintendo are just mortarfied by this campaign

I'm pretty sure Nintendo is cemented on their TOS stance so it won't bother them.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Wow a group who is against DRM isn't hacking a site or bringing a service down. I can respect these guys way more then any other "we want freedom with our hardware" group.

Well that's true. I may not agree with their cause, nor do I understand what they hope to achieve by mailing cardboard bricks to Nintendo, but I can at least respect them for making a legal protest.
Why do they need to be able to mod their console anyway??? If you wanna play custom software, that's what a PC is for. No restrictions there.

 

[MurderousToaster]

Can I just say that Mr. Gay must have had a rather unfortunate time during his teenage years at school with a name like that.

 

[Steve the Pocket]

Incidentally, my Web host donates to this organization, I think.

And Nintendo... is... THE LAW.

See, I don't know if you were joking or not, but that attitude, and the fact that so many people seem to genuinely believe it ? that corporations have, or should have, the power to dictate power on a level that should be reserved for governments ? bothers me a lot more than what those corporations have been doing with that power... at least, so far.

 

[Flames66]

I just haven't bought one. Unfortunately, I think some other people might have, so my protest will probably go completely unnoticed.

 

[gunner1905]

What!?
So it's okay for you if microsoft makes your xbox red ring, sony stops your ps3 from working, or apple turning your iphone into a fucking glass brick if you do something to it that they don't like, because that's exactly the same as nintendo is able to do with these 3ds' that people already bought.
I can see nintendo, microsoft, or sony banning modified systems from online services or voiding warranty but how can you justify sabotaging a system that has already been paid for

1. Microsoft doesn't make your Xbox 360 red ring, that's a technical malfunction so, not the best example on your part.

2. As long as what your doing is illegal and you shouldn't be doing it in the first place then yes, you give up your privilege to use that electronic device.

3. Did no one understand that I was quoting Judge Dredd with that last line in my original post? I don't literally think that Nintendo is the law.

1. What I meant is that nintendo has the power to turn your 3ds into a brick which is equal to an xbox 360 getting a rrod (3ds brick = xbox 360 rrod). In this instance nintendo HAS THE POWER TO TURN YOUR 3DS into a brick so it's like microsoft having the ability to give your xbox 360 a RROD (which they doesn't). Does that seems right to you, a company having the ability TO BREAK a stuff that you have paid for?

2. No I've paid for the electronic device, you can discontinue support to my device, ban me, or void my warranty but it does not mean that they can BREAK my device.
I have a dell laptop (electronic device) which graphic card I have replace, to dell I have done something illegal thus they have voided my warranty but they still cannot take away or BREAK my laptop.
Or another metaphor, if you have an iPhone (electronic device) and you decide to jailbreak it (illegal) then basically apple can push an update that would brick your iphone BUT you have a choice not to update your phone thus in the end apple has STOPPED SUPPORT for you device (no further updates) but on the 3ds nintendo doesn't stop support for your device, they literally BREAKS your device. Not voiding your warranty, banning me from online functions, or not supporting my device but BREAKING IT to the point it has lost it's value.

3. I don't know what you mean about that

 

[RanceJustice]

We've all seen that such antipiracy attempts are fruitless. Sony's attempt to deal with "EVIL HAXORS" get them more fucked than they ever thought possible..by guys NOT using standard custom firmware (ie. If they let the modded PS3s go online provided they were not actually cheating, they never would have forced people to go into the developer-only PSN variant which was inscrutably non-segregated from payment data, for some reason). Nintendo should bloody well know this - they have THE most popular and successful console this generation, and its currently the only one you can mod entirely in software and play online without a ban. This is one reason I purchased the damn thing.

Likewise, I'm also a DSLite owner, equipped with an AceKard2i/SupercardDSTwo. I like being able to have a ton of games on a single 4gb microSD, instead of swapping every bloody time. I like having access to "Undub" versions where a romhack has been used in order to put Japanese audio into an English subtitled game like Final Fantasy IV DS or Its a Wonderful World (The World is Not Enough in some markets). The devs don't give me an official way to select Japanese vocals, so I'm forced to listen to awkward English VOs unless I use an "evil pirate" device. My flashcarts also allow me to expand the media playing ability of my DSLite and run all sorts of other neat programs, including even word processing and WiFi sniffing programs. Hell, you can even run a complete Linux install on DSLite/DSi.

I was going to buy a 3DS, but I'm not going to give permission for Nintendo to constantly spy on me and brick the device if they see me do something they don't like. They may have been so worried about potential risk of piracy, that they lost an actual $250 I was willing to spend on the platform itself. Now, I'll wait to watch the hacking community do its thing, do what I can to help, and buy a secondhand 3DS when I'm sure my current or a new version of flashcarts are safe to use with the full featureset of the device.

The FSF may have a lot of rhetoric that seems surprising, but these are the guys standing up against corporation's belief that if they produce a product, they can dictate what you do with it after you purchase. Give them you support as even if you don't believe in the idea that all software should be "Free as in Speech", its still a good decision for your consumer rights.

Nintendo, MS, Sony and everyone else - Stop with draconian DRM/AntiPiracy measures. They don't work and cost you money in the long run. They stop people from wanting to be involved or buy anything on your systems at all. When someone can be banned simply for going on XboxLIVE with a modded system, why bother keeping an XLive subscription at all or playing online with legit discs? Hell, to look at it pragmatically, even if you assume a pirate pays Zero real dollars towards games (Completely untrue, studies show), they're paying a Non-Zero amount to play on XBoxLIVE Gold, PSN Plus, and anything purchased in the store. Why shut down your only revenue stream? Silly.

Nintendo should really know better and consumers worldwide need to stop this foolishness of letting corporations dictate and control how they use their devices. Its YOUR device, you paid for it, and you shouldn't have to give the developers a kidney just to play online, when you are FORCED to use their network. Microsoft didn't release the source code for XLive and license it to others so you could play on a Live of your own, did they? You can't just say "Well MS, I don't like your rules, so I'm going to point my Xbox360 at Jim's XLive Server instead." No, they are holding your games HOSTAGE - "If you ever want to play Zelda again, you'll do exactly as I say...".

 

[punipunipyo]

Well.... seeing how the kids in the after school where I worked, 7 out of 10 (and the ones who didn't are now learning how to...) had their DSI cracked, adn Downloading free games, and REFUSES to buy GOOD GAMES, because they "played it" or simply "CAN" get them for free... I can't totally blame Nintendo at this point... though I AM against DRMs and all other scams companies crap out to "protect" their paychecks... for 3DS though, I'd just don't buy the system instead...

 

[ionveau]

Well.... seeing how the kids in the after school where I worked, 7 out of 10 (and the ones who didn't are now learning how to...) had their DSI cracked, adn Downloading free games, and REFUSES to buy GOOD GAMES, because they "played it" or simply "CAN" get them for free... I can't totally blame Nintendo at this point... though I AM against DRMs and all other scams companies crap out to "protect" their paychecks... for 3DS though, I'd just don't buy the system instead...

I hope you know average size of a DSI rom is 30MB, Thats like paying $1 per MB

 

[Rack]

Well.... seeing how the kids in the after school where I worked, 7 out of 10 (and the ones who didn't are now learning how to...) had their DSI cracked, adn Downloading free games, and REFUSES to buy GOOD GAMES, because they "played it" or simply "CAN" get them for free... I can't totally blame Nintendo at this point... though I AM against DRMs and all other scams companies crap out to "protect" their paychecks... for 3DS though, I'd just don't buy the system instead...

I hope you know average size of a DSI rom is 30MB, Thats like paying $1 per MB

So you'd object to paying 2c for Elite? That's harsh man...

 

[Zefar]

The FSF may have a lot of rhetoric that seems surprising, but these are the guys standing up against corporation's belief that if they produce a product, they can dictate what you do with it after you purchase. Give them you support as even if you don't believe in the idea that all software should be "Free as in Speech", its still a good decision for your consumer rights.

Go to a restaurant and abuse the things there and you'll be banned from the place.
Go to library and wreck the place apart with maple syrup and you'll be banned from there.
Buy a car license and drive recklessly and have you driver license removed so your car becomes useless unless you wanna become illegal. Well that's if you don't get a new license.
Post porn on Xbox Live and have your account blocked, all though you probably think that's a GOOD rule but it's still the same thing.
Ok, you Xbox 360 won't be permanently damaged, I think but your games are.


Point is, respect the companies wishes to not have people doing mod work on their console. They let them do it with NDS and from what I have heard it was pretty bad with piracy.

So they put a few billion into the project and they should have all the rights to tell you that you're not allowed to do some things on it.
You agree with the agreements in the contract and if you break those they have the right to disable your console. It's like Valve turning Steam accounts off due to piracy if someone is stupid enough use piracy on their main account. Which plenty of people where in the start.
Now they got no account left and all of those game boxes that might have been Valve games are useless.

Nintendo, MS, Sony and everyone else - Stop with draconian DRM/AntiPiracy measures. They don't work and cost you money in the long run. They stop people from wanting to be involved or buy anything on your systems at all. When someone can be banned simply for going on XboxLIVE with a modded system, why bother keeping an XLive subscription at all or playing online with legit discs? Hell, to look at it pragmatically, even if you assume a pirate pays Zero real dollars towards games (Completely untrue, studies show), they're paying a Non-Zero amount to play on XBoxLIVE Gold, PSN Plus, and anything purchased in the store. Why shut down your only revenue stream? Silly.

The amount of people who do any sort of modding on consoles are VERY few comparing to the amount of customers they have so claiming they'll lose everyone is just ridiculous. Not to mention most of Nintendos customers are probably younger than 18.

Btw the whole talk about modded xbox. That's just laughable. Why bother keeping an Xlive subscription? Are you really asking such question? Like really?

Most as in like probably 80% of the pirates will never buy the game. Nintendo knows this as NDS was getting some hefty piracy rates even if a game is good. So now they want to block that part and if you want to play the game you'll have to buy it.

Nintendo should really know better and consumers worldwide need to stop this foolishness of letting corporations dictate and control how they use their devices. Its YOUR device, you paid for it, and you shouldn't have to give the developers a kidney just to play online, when you are FORCED to use their network. Microsoft didn't release the source code for XLive and license it to others so you could play on a Live of your own, did they? You can't just say "Well MS, I don't like your rules, so I'm going to point my Xbox360 at Jim's XLive Server instead." No, they are holding your games HOSTAGE - "If you ever want to play Zelda again, you'll do exactly as I say...".

It's quite simple, if you don't like the agreement for the Device you bought you return it to the store.

You're also overreacting about XLive as well. What about Steam btw? Ain't they holding your games as hostage as well? How about Ubisoft Uplay? Blizzards Bnet? Don't they all do the same thing as XLive?
Yet you don't give a damn about them.

 

[Cartographer]

The FSF may have a lot of rhetoric that seems surprising, but these are the guys standing up against corporation's belief that if they produce a product, they can dictate what you do with it after you purchase. Give them you support as even if you don't believe in the idea that all software should be "Free as in Speech", its still a good decision for your consumer rights.

Go to a restaurant and abuse the things there and you'll be banned from the place.
Go to library and wreck the place apart with maple syrup and you'll be banned from there.
Buy a car license and drive recklessly and have you driver license removed so your car becomes useless unless you wanna become illegal. Well that's if you don't get a new license.
Post porn on Xbox Live and have your account blocked, all though you probably think that's a GOOD rule but it's still the same thing.
Ok, you Xbox 360 won't be permanently damaged, I think but your games are.

Except that isn't what Nintendo are doing. To use your examples:
Go to a Nintendo restaurant and abuse the things there and you'll have your digestive system forcibly removed.
Go to a Nintendo library and wreck the place apart with maple syrup and you'll be lobotomised so you can't read any more.
Buy a car license and drive recklessly on Nintendo's roads and have you driver(sic) license removed and your car destroyed.

They have absolutely no right to destroy something that is someone else's posession. It doesn't matter that they built it, they chose to sell it!

Point is, respect the companies wishes to not have people doing mod work on their console. They let them do it with NDS and from what I have heard it was pretty bad with piracy.

So they put a few billion into the project and they should have all the rights to tell you that you're not allowed to do some things on it.
You agree with the agreements in the contract and if you break those they have the right to disable your console. It's like Valve turning Steam accounts off due to piracy if someone is stupid enough use piracy on their main account. Which plenty of people where in the start.
Now they got no account left and all of those game boxes that might have been Valve games are useless.

No it's not the same as that. If valve forcibly rendered your PC inoperable then yes, it'd be the same, but valve don't. Get your Steam account banned, your PC continues to function.

You're also overreacting about XLive as well. What about Steam btw? Ain't they holding your games as hostage as well? How about Ubisoft Uplay? Blizzards Bnet? Don't they all do the same thing as XLive?
Yet you don't give a damn about them.

I'm not Valve's biggest fan, but they have stated that if, for any reason, Steam would be permenantly taken down, they'd release a code that frees up all games you've bought through it.
Blizzard really screwed themselves when they put SC2 forcibly on BNet IMO, they lost a lot of potential customers.
And Ubisoft, I just don't buy their games, ever. I refuse to give money to a company like that. If that means I miss out on their product, so be it, their loss more than mine.

 

[Zefar]

Except that isn't what Nintendo are doing. To use your examples:
Go to a Nintendo restaurant and abuse the things there and you'll have your digestive system forcibly removed.
Go to a Nintendo library and wreck the place apart with maple syrup and you'll be lobotomised so you can't read any more.
Buy a car license and drive recklessly on Nintendo's roads and have you driver(sic) license removed and your car destroyed.

They have absolutely no right to destroy something that is someone else's posession. It doesn't matter that they built it, they chose to sell it!

Destroying your 3DS = Physical hurting you now?

Seriously, those analogies are way to random.

No it's not the same as that. If valve forcibly rendered your PC inoperable then yes, it'd be the same, but valve don't. Get your Steam account banned, your PC continues to function.

Valve did not make PCs. So trying to make your analogy as if Valve could do that is simply wrong.
3DS is made by Nintendo, publishes by Nintendo and they support it as well. They made that toy and they can put whatever rules they want on it.
It's no different than the rule that would block or ban your account for posting hate message or porn pictures on a service.

I'm not Valve's biggest fan, but they have stated that if, for any reason, Steam would be permenantly taken down, they'd release a code that frees up all games you've bought through it.
Blizzard really screwed themselves when they put SC2 forcibly on BNet IMO, they lost a lot of potential customers.
And Ubisoft, I just don't buy their games, ever. I refuse to give money to a company like that. If that means I miss out on their product, so be it, their loss more than mine.

I'm talking more about Valve shutting down your account for some reason. Or you doing something that will get your account blocked. Sure it can be fixed with Support but sometimes like if you're trying to sell your Steam games it might not be happening.

Quite a bit of laugh that you think Blizzard lost sales due to Bnet. Starcraft 2 sold more than Starcraft did in it's life time in less than few weeks. Yea, lost customers.

One thing about Microsoft as well. They actually have the power to make all pirate versions of Windows OS show a black screen at any time. They did this to a lot of people in China. Because they pirated it so much. They stopped after a while though.


But the thing with 3DS is that the device is yours but the programs and running the programs on it are probably not. It's the same with every single Software you've ever bought since PC games started to show up. You've never really physically owned the game. Just a license for it.

 

[Cartographer]

Except that isn't what Nintendo are doing. To use your examples:
Go to a Nintendo restaurant and abuse the things there and you'll have your digestive system forcibly removed.
Go to a Nintendo library and wreck the place apart with maple syrup and you'll be lobotomised so you can't read any more.
Buy a car license and drive recklessly on Nintendo's roads and have you driver(sic) license removed and your car destroyed.

They have absolutely no right to destroy something that is someone else's posession. It doesn't matter that they built it, they chose to sell it!

Destroying your 3DS = Physical hurting you now?

Seriously, those analogies are way to random.

They are your analogies mate, not mine.
Plus, how is "your car destroyed" physically hurting you?

Functionally, it's like BMW insisting that you only buy and use their fuel/music systems/tyres, then monitoring all BMWs in the world and crashing the onboard computers of any that don't, rendering them scrap.

Valve did not make PCs. So trying to make your analogy as if Valve could do that is simply wrong.
3DS is made by Nintendo, publishes by Nintendo and they support it as well. They made that toy and they can put whatever rules they want on it.
It's no different than the rule that would block or ban your account for posting hate message or porn pictures on a service.

Again, you brought Valve into the conversation mate, not me. Not my fault if it's not a perfect analogous situation. The argument is that Nintendo retain the rights to the software that runs the hardware and you only lisence it from them; that's all well and good, but then disallowing any other software from being run on the hardware and physically scrapping that hardware, rendering it useless, if they detect other software is something else entirely.

Quite a bit of laugh that you think Blizzard lost sales due to Bnet. Starcraft 2 sold more than Starcraft did in it's life time in less than few weeks. Yea, lost customers.

One of the biggest draws for SC1 was LAN play, there were enormous events built around it and huge numbers of players, who would otherwise have never have seen it, got to experience it and go on to buy the game themselves.
This is simply nowhere near as easy with SC2 because of BNet.
Sure, in the intervening years a lot has happened, the profile of the company has changed/grown and there is more awareness amongst the gaming public. But we're a long way from the spawn copies of Diablo allowing infinite numbers of people to try the game out from one copy at a LAN (and kill one another and collect each others' ears...).
Personally, I'm in support of making it as easy as possible for people to encounter (and pay for) your products and BNet doesn't help that IMO.

One thing about Microsoft as well. They actually have the power to make all pirate versions of Windows OS show a black screen at any time. They did this to a lot of people in China. Because they pirated it so much. They stopped after a while though.

But you could still install Linux and run the PC afterwards.

But the thing with 3DS is that the device is yours but the programs and running the programs on it are probably not. It's the same with every single Software you've ever bought since PC games started to show up. You've never really physically owned the game. Just a license for it.

I don't disagree mate, I just don't think Nintendo are on solid legal grounds with what they're doing with the 3DS. Stopping the software from working is one thing, "bricking" the hardware is another.

 

[punipunipyo]

Well.... seeing how the kids in the after school where I worked, 7 out of 10 (and the ones who didn't are now learning how to...) had their DSI cracked, adn Downloading free games, and REFUSES to buy GOOD GAMES, because they "played it" or simply "CAN" get them for free... I can't totally blame Nintendo at this point... though I AM against DRMs and all other scams companies crap out to "protect" their paychecks... for 3DS though, I'd just don't buy the system instead...

I hope you know average size of a DSI rom is 30MB, Thats like paying $1 per MB

So you'd object to paying 2c for Elite? That's harsh man...

Not that I don't want to justify DL games... but intellectual properties are still intellectual properties... and besides... size don't matter, it's the quality of the game that counts, not how much information it crams...

 

[Arehexes]

Wow a group who is against DRM isn't hacking a site or bringing a service down. I can respect these guys way more then any other "we want freedom with our hardware" group.

Well that's true. I may not agree with their cause, nor do I understand what they hope to achieve by mailing cardboard bricks to Nintendo, but I can at least respect them for making a legal protest.
Why do they need to be able to mod their console anyway??? If you wanna play custom software, that's what a PC is for. No restrictions there.

Well I modded my systems so I can store all the games I bought on one card so I can go to college with just my DS and enjoy all the DS games I own without carrying all the carts (same goes with my psp). After you hit the 40 game mark it kinda gets on ones nerves to manage so many games (and after I had some stolen I'm am a little more paranoid).