Anti-DRM Group Sends Nintendo 200 Bricks

[rickynumber24]

Nintendo responded to the group in [a href="http://www.mcvuk.com/news/44417/US-Gamers-angry-over-3DS-terms"]an interview[/a] with MCV UK. The Nintendo spokesperson pointed out that the European 3DS doesn't have the same terms and is "in compliance with European requirements."

A recent Defective by Design [a href="http://www.defectivebydesign.org/200-bricks-Nintendo-response "]blog post[/a] responded: "Wow. Nintendo is admitting that the Terms they are attempting to enforce elsewhere are so awful, they are illegal in the European Union!"

Seriously guys, this. The fact that it's not illegal for them to give those kinds of terms in the US, unlike in Europe doesn't make it right to have these kinds of terms in places that don't ban it. Instead, it should be taken as a sign that US consumer protection laws are lax and maybe they should give everyone the same, reasonable terms.

(Say, for that matter, if I take my US 3DS to Europe, does that mean my EULA suddenly got less restrictive and I can do those things that are not banned there? What about the reverse?)

 

[Echo136]

snip

I'm not even going to attempt to argue with you about ownership; you obviously don't care. But even you should still be concerned with this TOS. They are selling a device with advertised film capabilities then claiming ownership of all media captured using it. Why doesn't that bother you?

That does bother me quite a bit, but honestly, why are people using a 3DS for media. Theres cameras and phones for that.

Why?

That indeed sounds awesome, but you cant just take peoples word for it that they are just going to emulate older games and nothing else. For one, they are trying to profit off of older games with their store, and for another that would be a horrible business risk. You allow modding, and all of a sudden someone releases 10 easy steps to mod your gameboy to allow illegal gaming and the whole thing falls apart. People get mad when Xbox doesnt allow modding, but people just dont realize that they are in business to keep their games secure. It mindfucks me why more people arent supporting this. Yes I realize it means the ToS are horribly against you, but its either that or no game developer will ever want to make a game, because they all run the risk of getting stolen all the time and making no profit.

 

[V8 Ninja]

Who would have thought that Nintendo has the right to limit your use of their device when you mess with it? =P

God, I wish life didn't overstock on the idiots when it did.

Who would have thought so many people blindly accept that a device you paid for is owned by the person that sold it to you?

Admittedly, I should have phrased my first sentence better. But when 98% of the people who "Modify" a game console do it for pirating, I don't feel too bad for NOT rephrasing it. Fact is that almost everybody who modifies their game consoles do it for piracy. I understand why Nintendo is doing what it's doing with the 3DS. And so far it appears that most gamers aren't too pissy about it except for this anti-DRM group, which are probably a bunch of pirates themselves.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

This brings a whole new meaning to the term: constructive criticism.

OT: While I can understand the automatic updates and permanently bricking the console in case of pirates cracking it, I don't think that will stop them in the end. Also the whole "owning rights to video or pictures captured with the device" thing is a point against the 3DS. If I was going to use the camera on it before, I'm not now as I have better cameras at my disposal that I own the rights to.

[sub]You know, between this and the battery life problem I'm really cooled off of the idea of buying one now. Might as well save up for a Pandora. They don't treat their customers like they're guilty until proven innocent.[/sub]

 

[Nurb]

It's sad the newer generations willingly accept the loss of control over their products they used to have. There is no WAY A digital camera company would get away with claiming they own content taken by consumers, but for video games the kiddies who don't know any better defend them and others just shrug their shoulders and accept it.

"Only pirates care about broad, demanding EULAs that wouldn't hold up in court" is the same argument you hear from the government: "If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind domestic spying"

American customers get screwed when it comes to games when other nations won't allow it. The good news is that EULAs hardly ever make it past a judge if a case goes to court.

 

[kjh242]

I believe there are around half a billion topics about this, but let's do this anyways.
This is NOT how you stop pirates. I don't remember who it was, but some company wrote an article about why this the exact opposite direction from where you want to be going. You can't beat the pirates, so what should we do? Find a way to have them join us. We humans are still animals-if pinned down, we will only struggle harder. I believe there was even a line in the Piracy episode of Extra Credits, something like this;
"Oh, and Sony? You DON'T. FUCK. WITH THE PEOPLE. WHO INSTALL LINUX. ON THEIR PLAYSTATIONS."

 

[CrystalShadow]

Why?

That indeed sounds awesome, but you cant just take peoples word for it that they are just going to emulate older games and nothing else. For one, they are trying to profit off of older games with their store, and for another. For another, that would be a horrible business risk. You allow modding, and all of a sudden someone releases 10 easy steps to mod your gameboy to allow illegal gaming and the whole thing falls apart. People get mad when Xbox doesnt allow modding, but people just dont realize that they are in business to keep their games secure. It mindfucks me why more people arent supporting this. Yes I realize it means the ToS are horribly against you, but its either that or no game developer will ever want to make a game, because they all run the risk of getting stolen all the time and making no profit.

True. But as I said, the PC has all those risks, and while it might be said the PC gaming industry is a bit of a mess, it still exists. Despite all the piracy risks.

Unfortunately, I don't know if we can ever overcome the combination of greed and paranoia that leads to the problems on both sides.

(Greed is evident in the makers of games, since the primary motivation is money, but also in those that resort to piracy, since it's getting something without having to pay for it.
Paranoia is evident in a lot of the anti-piracy measures, since many are more effective at being a nuisance to people that have paid than in being a deterrent to piracy.)

Still, maybe I just find the whole notion of Intellectual Property so messy that I can't see a workable solution within a capitalist framework.

 

[Echo136]

It's sad the newer generations willingly accept the loss of control over their products they used to have.

"Only pirates care about broad, demanding EULAs that wouldn't hold up in court" is the same argument you hear from the government: "If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind domestic spying"

American customers get screwed when it comes to games when other nations won't allow it. The good news is that EULAs hardly ever make it past a judge if a case goes to court.

Really? Because in fact thats exactly how I feel. Ive owned a few current systems and none of those EULAs have ever prevented me from enjoying my games or made me feel like Im losing all my civil liberties. Its a friggin game system. You play the games. Give it a rest, seriously. The moment I see an eyeball blinking at me from my PS3 Big Brother style Ill gladly change my opinion but until then Im going to go play some Demon's Souls.

 

[radioactive lemur]

Maybe anonymous will rape Nintendo's online now. LOL maybe they did already and no one noticed.

 

[Your Fearless Captain]

Is there a demographic reason so many of the people who frequent this site don't care about their consumer rights or the future of technology? These threads are always filled with people saying Take that pirates! even when the subject will only hurt consumers without hindering pirates. It's getting almost embarrassing. I definitely won't be buying any Nintendo hardware until they stop trying to do such reprehensible things.

I would never mod my 3DS or use unauthorized devices (which im guessing is Action Replay), so how does this affect me at all? It doesnt, so my rights arent being infringed at all. Only those who want to cheat the system and pirate games. And dont kid yourself. The majority of the people who would mod their system would do so to pirate games.

Then I hope you didn't plan on taking any pictures or videos your would want to hold the rights to. Nintendo owns those to. If your not stupid, it's really easy to see why is a really big deal.

 

[Nurb]

It's sad the newer generations willingly accept the loss of control over their products they used to have.

"Only pirates care about broad, demanding EULAs that wouldn't hold up in court" is the same argument you hear from the government: "If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind domestic spying"

American customers get screwed when it comes to games when other nations won't allow it. The good news is that EULAs hardly ever make it past a judge if a case goes to court.

Really? Because in fact thats exactly how I feel. Ive owned a few current systems and none of those EULAs have ever prevented me from enjoying my games or made me feel like Im losing all my civil liberties. Its a friggin game system. You play the games. Give it a rest, seriously. The moment I see an eyeball blinking at me from my PS3 Big Brother style Ill gladly change my opinion but until then Im going to go play some Demon's Souls.

YOU might get enjoyment from playing a game, others like those linux guys get enjoyment out of modding everything they own to run linux on it. Control is giving people the right to do whatever they want with it... why? Because someone might suddenly FEEL like it. That's the point, and you're too accepting.

I'll paste something I edited in after you started replying to underline my point:
There is no WAY A digital camera company would get away with claiming they own content taken by consumers, but for video games the kiddies who don't know any better defend them and others just shrug their shoulders and accept it. They demand too much power and no judge in his right mind would let them have it in court. If someone paid for a DS, then it's theirs and what they do with it isn't based on your personal tastes.

 

[Magikarp]

Oh no! Nintendo will have to promise not to brick any 3DSes, & hope the pirates are willing to take the bricks back! Otherwise, these cardboard bricks will cripple Nintendo & cause them to go out of business!

 

[ThatDaveDude1]

let's face it, people modding the system are doing so to play pirated games.

That's not necessarily true.

They may be trying to get around Region Locks that prevent them from playing games (which, admittedly, they may or may not have legally purchased) that haven't been released in their country. They also may be trying to run Homebrew Games, which may be illegal but still don't constitute piracy.

 

[Atheist.]

Lol. Who would have thought Nintendo can decide to stop you from doing things which are in fact perfectly legal?

(Reverse engineering. Modification of hardware & software, have traditionally been legal as long as you aren't doing them for the sole purpose of doing something illegal with the result.
Homebrew software is legal, despite what companies claim. Pirated games are not. But with technical changes to the device involved being almost identical...)

You're kidding yourself if you think pirating games isnt the main purpose of modding systems. The reason the PSP was such a terrible failure was because it was so easy to pirate games on it.

The PSP was definitely not a failure. The PSP Go was, but definitely not the original.

That said, this is the main reason I'm not buying a 3DS. This is also going to be my deciding factor going into getting the NGP. I'm so sick of companies telling me what I can do with what I purchase. Extensive DRM on hardware is a gross violation of consumer rights.

I couldn't give a shit less if they think this will stop pirating, because it won't. They'll find a way like they always do. What it will do is prevent people from legally modifying the system, and placing homebrew and other applications on a device that has the potential to do so.

Video game consoles are one of the only hardware I see being sold with an extremely controlling automatic ToS. Software has it all the time, but not hardware. That's like selling me a damn radio and telling me I can only listen to bloody AM.

Being open source is key to having a happy audience. Why do you think everyone loves their Android phones so much? It's an open platform with endless amounts of customization. Take a lesson from Google, Nintendo. Don't be evil.

 

[Echo136]

Then I hope you didn't plan on taking any pictures or videos your would want to hold the rights to. Nintendo owns those to. If your not stupid, it's really easy to see why is a really big deal.

As I said in another post, that part bothers me a lot, if you are over the age of 15 and you have a gameboy you probably already have a phone, it just makes more sense that you would use your phone for media instead.

YOU might get enjoyment from playing a game, others like those linux guys get enjoyment out of modding everything they own to run linux on it. Control is giving people the right to do whatever they want with it... why? Because someone might suddenly FEEL like it. That's the point, and you're too accepting.

I'll paste something I edited in after you started replying to underline my point:
There is no WAY A digital camera company would get away with claiming they own content taken by consumers, but for video games the kiddies who don't know any better defend them and others just shrug their shoulders and accept it. They demand too much power and no judge in his right mind would let them have it in court. If someone paid for a DS, then it's theirs and what they do with it isn't based on your personal tastes.

For my response to the pictures and media part, look just above you.

As for the piracy part, Ive said half a dozen times already in this thread, you'd have to be naive to not believe that the majority of people modding their systems would do so to pirate games. The main reason the PSP failed was because it was so easy to pirate games on it.

 

[NLS]

Is there a demographic reason so many of the people who frequent this site don't care about their consumer rights or the future of technology? These threads are always filled with people saying Take that pirates! even when the subject will only hurt consumers without hindering pirates. It's getting almost embarrassing. I definitely won't be buying any Nintendo hardware until they stop trying to do such reprehensible things.

I think it's easy to misunderstand this "Anti-DRM" "Free Software Foundation" as a bunch of pirates and kids that want everything for free and refuse to pay for games. (don't worry, I know about the FSF and the good work they do). But the article doesn't really portray the FSF as more than just that. It's a shame though :\

 

[mjc0961]

Once again, people fail to miss the point, just like with the whole Sony VS GeoHot lawsuit. It's not about piracy, it's about companies thinking they still own something they made even though we paid money for it and they can change or remove any features they want from it, even if the reason we bought it was for these removed features.

 

[killamanhunter]

If you're not going to pirate or do anything to your device why would you care? Oh right you are going to pirate all of your DS games and circumvent the software and hardware now I know why you're complaining about the ToS now it all makes sense!

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I wish companies like Nintendo would stop wasting time trying to stop pirates and focus on the bigger problems like stores with trade ins like gamestop. They are losing more than 200X as much money from store like that compared to pirates.

Here's the problem though: they really can't do anything about Gamestop. At least in the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

The doctrine allows the purchaser to transfer (i.e., sell, lend or give away) a particular lawfully made copy of the copyrighted work without permission once it has been obtained. This means that the copyright holder's rights to control the change of ownership of a particular copy ends once ownership of that copy has passed to someone else, as long as the copy itself is not an infringing copy. This doctrine is also referred to as the "right of first sale," "first sale rule," or "exhaustion rule."

In other words, at least in the United States, they can legaly do nothing, short of refuse to sell games to Gamestop unless they get a cut of resale. Which would be a huge loss, and Gamestop would just sell used ones anyway. In other words, no dice in that regard.

And "200X"? Where did you get that number?

OT: (Read this very sarcastically) Ohhh, nooooo, they sent fake bricks! Whatever will they dooooo? It's not as if they can just ignore them or pitch them!!!

 

[ph0b0s123]

Show me a case of an unfair bricking, and I'll consider that you might have a point.

Man give it two minutes the device has only just been released. But yeah lets just wait until that bad thing everyone can see coming happens before trying to stop it. Oh but wait, then it's too late....

Wow, from the responses here people really are happy to bend over backwards and take it in.... well you know the rest. People are happy to pay through the noses for devices they cannot use however they want and however they want does not equal piracy, that is just a cover by these companies to make sure you only do things the way they want and are locked into a wall garden.

It would not be so much of a problem if you were renting the device on contract like a mobile. But these companies expect you to take all the pain of paying for the hardware depreciation, etc so they have no risk and then still expect you be grateful.

And so many people are happy to do this. So yeah sure be sheep and just keep giving them your money without a complaint while they increase prices because they have complete control of the market and the device you have paid in full for. Nice work consumers....

And for those being negative about the sending in cardboard bricks. No it will not make Nintendo change, but at least it publicises the issue so that consumers who don't want to be screwed are warned and have the chance to abstain from purchasing. Man these forums are full of such negative nellys.