Anti-Rape underwear

[Matthewmagic]

I used to think things like these where teaching women to be afraid of men. Hell a week ago I would have called this manufacturing fear for the sake of profit.

Then a found http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/ . I have seen several posts on this subreddits telling men it is "Okay to rape, women like it." So now I think this is the best thing a woman can wear until they find a way to comfortable fit a razor blade in a vagina.

 

[Fleaman]

Shame on y'all for being so negative.

These will have an AMAZING effect at one of the most common places rape occurs: parties! If the girl is drunk, these will help her defend long enough to realize what's going on. If the guy is drunk, he'll be too stupid to figure out how to get them off. It's great.

And besides, half of you are dudes. Y'all don't understand how prevalent rape is when you're a girl with a vagina. Having something like this would be a definite peace of mind thing for a lot of women, and honestly it can't hurt.

Thinking you might have the right of it here. Pepper spray and tasers are nice when you're ambushed in an alley by an eight-foot tall guy in a gimp mask, but are pretty useless when you're drunk or asleep. A layer of passive defense could really work in that situation.

 

[Reiper]

There was a rape case a little while ago, the judge decided it wasn't rape because she was wearing tight jeans, so, yeah, I could see that happening.

Citation needed?

Er...in most western nations, something like 1 in 6 women will be raped during their lifetimes.

Women who go to college in the US have a 1 in 4 chance of being raped while they are there.

I believe that stat is "sexual assault", not rape. Big difference, since inappropriate touching can constitute sexual assault.

That depends on context, I guess. With sexual assault, we have the problem that we often shift part of the responsibility on the victim, inadvertently or not, instead of the perpetrator. With other assault, not so much. So, in this context, when we talk about how those people who are at risk of sexual assault can protect themselves, we have to be careful about the implications of our words.

Partial responsibility is often shifted onto victims of all types of crime, but for some reason rape victims are given a special pedestal and act as if they are being treated differently. If I went alone through a bad part of town and got mugged in an alley, I would be rightly told that I was retarded for being in that part of town. Tell that to a rape victim in the same situation and somehow you are blaming them for what happened. It does not mean it is their fault, but it is naive to think that no one has a responsibility to look out for themselves, lest you find yourself in a compromising situation.

td:dr

Your personal protection and well being is always your responsibility. We don't live in some perfect world where you can do whatever you want without consequences. One of the reasons I think it is a good idea to carry a gun, but that is another matter entirely...

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

I agree with a lot of people here that it seems slightly better than useless at best and it might not be such a good idea to "frustrate the rapist". Also quote from the website "The garments must be very difficult for someone else to remove by either force or stealth..." how the hell do you remove underwear by stealth?

Clearly you've never been visited by an underwear ninja?.


Anyway, this product exists and it depresses me. It's feeding the "don't get raped" instead of "don't rape" culture and that's just sad.

 

[Aximili]

I believe that stat is "sexual assault", not rape. Big difference, since inappropriate touching can constitute sexual assault.

Sexual Assault is just the legalese term for rape. 100% of sexual assaults are rapes. There is no difference.

 

[Aximili]

I agree with a lot of people here that it seems slightly better than useless at best and it might not be such a good idea to "frustrate the rapist". Also quote from the website "The garments must be very difficult for someone else to remove by either force or stealth..." how the hell do you remove underwear by stealth?

Clearly you've never been visited by an underwear ninja?.


Anyway, this product exists and it depresses me. It's feeding the "don't get raped" instead of "don't rape" culture and that's just sad.

Most men don't view rapes as "real" rapes unless it's in very specific circumstances, and you don't even have to look outside this thread to see how prevalent this idea is. I can count on one hand the nerds I've met who don't think rape is either 'cool' or 'sexy'. These are usually the same nerds who can't figure out why women won't go anywhere near them.

 

[Winthrop]

"She says she wants"

Now I don't mean to sound ignorant, but this one really confused me. If a girl says she wants to have sex with a guy and they have sex how is that rape (assuming she is of legal age and sound mind)? I mean isn't that the very definition of consent? Or do you mean she says she want to and then changes her mine, which is a completely different situation in which case the man would be raping her.

OT: Can't see it helping at parties or with date rapes. People have mentioned it could cause a girl to be "Shaken up" from a blackout so she can defend herself, but this seems unrealistic. In a violent ambush "alley style" rape, I think it would anger the attacker which I cannot imagine would be good. I just can't see it helping in anyway. If anything, it would make rape harder to prosecute I think.

That said, I don't think creating a product to help people defend themselves is victim blaming. I do not believe pepper spray, tasers, or encouraging women not to walk alone in bad parts of cities (honestly neither should men if muggings are common) at night are victim blaming either. Its not a woman's fault if she is alone at night or doesn't happen to have pepper spray or a rape whistle, and implying that she should be forced to do those things is absurd and offensive. That said, I DO think that in a select few cases (but not every case), having some layer of defense( be it a barrier like this underwear, a weapon, a group of friends to have her back, or avoiding areas known for rape (some streets have crazy high rates of violent crime and some colleges have frat houses with "rape rooms" which is awful for obvious reasons)) could help a woman get out of a dangerous situation. This isn't unique to rape. I think keeping small amounts of cash and not openly carrying money could help you avoid a mugging. Likewise when I would help provide food to the homeless during high school in dangerous parts of the city we were not allowed to travel in groups smaller than 4 people. I think the mugger would mug someone still and the rapist would rape someone still because no defense is perfect, but there are ways to reduce the probability that you will be a target and ways to increase the possibility of escape or protection. Note I see reduce, not prevent. The crime is not your fault and it is not your fault you were the target, but discouraging the purchase and production of products that could really help someone in a time of need because they could be seen as victim blaming seems silly and even dangerous.

Still, stopping rapes from being committed should be the long term goal and work should be focused on that, but I do not see the problem with giving tools to potential victims to defend themselves before we reach the end goal of stopping rape all together.

If anyone disagrees with my views I would really like to hear your opinions and your reasons for disagreeing with me so that I can reevaluate any flawed beliefs that I have, though I ask that the conversation remain civil and that you consider my points as well.

 

[Reiper]

I believe that stat is "sexual assault", not rape. Big difference, since inappropriate touching can constitute sexual assault.

Sexual Assault is just the legalese term for rape. 100% of sexual assaults are rapes. There is no difference.

No they really are not the same, at least where I live. There are different levels of sexual assault, with only the highest levels being forced intercourse. IE slapping a girls bum qualifies legally as sexual assault, but it would be ridiculous to call it rape.

 

[shootthebandit]

Havent these been around for a good few centuries now

 

[CardinalPiggles]

All that video did was sadden me. The fact that people feel the need to lock up their genitals from sexual predators is just sad.

 

[FabTails]

To do something against rape should not be the responsibility of the victim.

Yeah! Just like preventing theft should not be the responsibility of the victim! Locking your door is just sending mixed messages and it makes people believe theft is the victim's fault...

That's obviously sarcasm and I understand theft and rape are different things, but what you are saying is silly. Doing something to lower your chances of being a victim of a crime is a great idea. No matter how much flowery rhetoric and good will and "education" you put into the public, there are still bad areas and there are still bad people. Why is it so wrong to wise up to this and try to do things to prevent yourself becoming a victim?

 

[Sir Pootis]

I don't really think this will work. I don't see anyone giving up on raping someone because their underwear was really hard to take off. It seems like a quick attempt to cash in off of people who have anxiety about this sort of thing.

 

[Lieju]

"She says she wants"

Now I don't mean to sound ignorant, but this one really confused me. If a girl says she wants to have sex with a guy and they have sex how is that rape (assuming she is of legal age and sound mind)? I mean isn't that the very definition of consent? Or do you mean she says she want to and then changes her mine, which is a completely different situation in which case the man would be raping her.

Well, I'd say it's the latter considering the question was 'A girl is oblicated to have sex with a guy if...'

So, those girls think that if they say they want to have sex, they are then oblicated to, even if they later change their mind, because they think if they have already consented they can't back out of it.

Which wouldn't necessarily be rape, depending on if they express that they have changed their mind.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Why is it so wrong to wise up to this and try to do things to prevent yourself becoming a victim?

It isn't. Nobody is saying that is it. The mindset that a woman didn't do enough to prevent it if it happened, and should be blamed, however, is something of a problem.

 

[ShadyNinja]

> watches video
> uh... excuse me where are the underwear for men?
> mentions girls and women only
> oh I see >_>


Sorry but I sorta found this video sexist in that it implies only females can be raped and male rape isn't an issue.

 

[blackrave]

And no, you cant "teach people not to rape", thats like saying we can teach them not to murder, or not to lie..or whatever.

yeah you can do that

there's a reason crime rates vary wildly between different areas

Wait are there really people who think "There is nothing wrong in rape, I need to have forced sex more often"?
Well, besides few deviant exceptions.
Because as far as I know most people (even rapists) know that rape is bad.
Teaching "not to rape" is like teaching that sky is blue and water is wet.
I think what we actually need to teach is that there is nothing wrong in being raped.
[I know that it sounds wrongsick, but let me explain, before gathering lynch mob]
I mean if you were raped, you shouldn't hide it and don't be ashamed to inform authorities.
Someone did something horrible to you and if you don't let people know about it, rapist will do same thing to some other person- it is in your power to prevent it.
And being raped isn't the end of the world- as from any damage you will heal and return to your ordinary self (more or less)
And if someone you know was raped, ostracizing that person is unacceptable. Don't condemn him/her because he/she is a victim. Show some support dammit!

On the other hand we should also teach that false rape claims are insulting to actual rape victims and how devastating it can be to person you blame.

Also teaching people some self-control and responsible alcohol consumption is a good idea.
Seriously, do you REALLY need to drink up to the point you can't control yourself and can't remember a thing next morning?
Because there is a chance you agreed/offered to have sex, but simply can't remember it (in this case claiming rape isn't fair)
Of course there is same chance that someone simply exploited your condition.
And yet again it is possible that you were drugged by someone.

So to summarize, instead of teaching "not to rape", more productive would be teaching:
1)not to condemn rape victims
2)to don't be afraid to report actual rape
3)to make sure it was actual rape before reporting it (at least ask your friends about what happened)
4)that if you suspect you were drugged don't hesitate to go to police- the sooner you get tested the better
5)that being raped isn't the end of your life
Although I suspect that most of things I wrote are same "water is wet" lessons :/

 

[Not Matt]

It's a nice idea but I don't think it'll be a hit. Especially sinc stuff like pepperspray is much cheaper and more efficient. If someone's set out to rape someone I don't think they'll turn around just because you have straps on your undies.

 

[Azure23]

The fact that this is being marketed disgusts me. Not the product itself or the fact that women want to feel safe. That I can totally get. It's just that the need for this product is still widespread enough in our 'civilized' world is making me feel ill. Let's not make more self-protective products necessary in the future. This behavior isn't an unstoppable 'fact of life', it isn't something we should be passively guarding against with stuff like this. We need to attack the attitude that makes it possible head on.

Respect people. You don't have to like them, just respect them. It's what everyone deserves. Let's try to be a part of a generation that respects each other enough to make this kind of stuff unnecessary.

There are already much more extreme (not that thats a bad thing at all) anti rape products on the market, one of which, the Rapeaxe, seems particularly effective. I believe it was created by a South African inventor who stated that she wanted to create "a medieval device for a medieval act." It's essentially wearable vagina dentata, and when the rapist tries to violate the woman it's teeth will clamp on the shaft. It's made to be incredibly, mind-numbingly painful, in order to allow the victim to escape, and only possible to be removed at a hospital where the rapist can then be taken into custody.

So yeah, we already have some products like this and honestly I say more power to them. And last time I checked we didn't live in a civilized world, we live in a world where 1 in 4 women's first sexual experience involves some form of coercion, forceful or otherwise.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Wait are there really people who think "There is nothing wrong in rape, I need to have forced sex more often"?
Well, besides few deviant exceptions.
Because as far as I know most people (even rapists) know that rape is bad.
Teaching "not to rape" is like teaching that sky is blue and water is wet.

Not true...or at least, most rapists know that rape (in a vague abstract form) is bad, but not that what they do is rape. There's always some excuse for why the rapist was entitled to sex, and so it wasn't really rape.

I think what we actually need to teach is that there is nothing wrong in being raped.
[I know that it sounds wrongsick, but let me explain, before gathering lynch mob]
I mean if you were raped, you shouldn't hide it and don't be ashamed to inform authorities.
Someone did something horrible to you and if you don't let people know about it, rapist will do same thing to some other person- it is in your power to prevent it.

Well...yes...but you seem to have gone and put responbilities on victims there. If they don't want it known, they shouldn't be blamed for that.

And if someone you know was raped, ostracizing that person is unacceptable. Don't condemn him/her because he/she is a victim. Show some support dammit!

This is the essential point. No point telling victims they don't need to keep quiet when everyone else ensures that they do.

For this to work, though...we have to acknowledge that anyone can be a rapist (or rather, that there's no way of telling if someone is or is not). If a rape is reported, and the perpetrator comes from a good family, has no other criminal history...doesn't mean they aren't a rapist.

Also, it's essential that the police and legal system care about reported rapes. Currently, this really is not the case in much of the Western world. This is one of thee reasons people are frightened to report, because they are put on trial, they are blamed for causing the problem and making other people look bad.

EDIT:

3)to make sure it was actual rape before reporting it (at least ask your friends about what happened)

About this...look, I certainly understand what you mean, a false rape accusation is quite a nasty thing. However, in reality, they are exceedingly rare. They are exceedingly common in popular consciousness, however, they are used to dismiss and discredit rapes all the time

When you say "actual rape"...an awful lot of people have a very wooly understanding of what that is, including many actual victims.

For example, hordes of people fell over themselves to defend Polanski. Sure, he'd drugged a 14 year old girl and sodomised her, but it wasn't "rape rape" (actually said about it), because she'd agreed to go to the house with him, because Sharon Tate had been murdered, because he'd lost his family to the Holocaust, or any other reason.

A lot of people somehow believed that drugging and raping a 14 year old girl isn't "actual rape".

 

[blackrave]

I agree on everything you said
Except this part

Well...yes...but you seem to have gone and put responbilities on victims there. If they don't want it known, they shouldn't be blamed for that.

I personally am convinced that if you can prevent something, you should at least try.
If not, then when next victim will be hurt, at least partially you will be responsible too.

A lot of people somehow believed that drugging and raping a 14 year old girl isn't "actual rape".

Yeah, that... Thank you for ruining my shower that I took 2h ago, because I feel like I need another one.
There is nothing in that case that implied that she agreed.
That was rape without any of grey area.

Now that girl has grown up and overcame that rape, she doesn't want for Polanski to be prosecuted anymore (at least that is something I remember reading).
I call bullshit on that.
By same logic fucking babies is also ok, they will eventually grow up and won't remember anything after all. No harm done, right?
.
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Ok, I'm becoming emotional again, so I'll stop