I agree with the final battle. It showed that Comstock was not an invincible man, but instead an old feeble preacher. It was very personal, and IMO having a huge bossfight would have felt out of place.R.Nevermore said:
Anyone else *INSANELY* disappointed by Bioshock Infinite?
- Thread starter IPunchWithMyFists
- Start date
On the whole really enjoyed it, liked the characters, well fink and daisy were a tad weak but Lutece made up for that for me, the shooting was serviceable but not great, lets be honest it was carried by the story and the splendor of the surroundings. there are holes in the plot but that's to be expected with a multiverse scenario. its just the ending i couldn't get behind. i just dont like it when a bunch of stuff gets added post act 3 then a really bad decision is made with all that new power and it gets more mystical than sc-fi. jumped the shark is i think the phrase.
Yeah, I'm about there myself. I liked the story, but it didn't weave very well into gameplay. Things happened and then you got back to the shooting gallery. Ever-so-often they'd take a break so you could walk around and marvel at their amazing aesthetics for a bit. Even the part where you could use plasmids to interact with the environment by powering doors with lightning was for one token chapter and you never saw them again.
I mean the OP had stupid reasons for his disappointments... but that doesn't mean there aren't legitimate things to be disappointed about.
For one, while this city is an amazing thing to behold, it's not very dynamic. Sure it changes, but not while you're around. For one glorious chapter, we started to experience the world as it fell apart, the tower you were in was being torn to shreds. Then you had to escape as sections of the city were breaking beneath you. After all that though, everything was gated off or already destroyed.
You walk through a couple of tears and suddenly a war had started without you. You didn't get to see the Vox Populi rise up from a struggling community of outcasts to soldiers fighting a revolution. One minute they needed guns to challenge the authority and the next minute they rival the city's army. While the concept was neat, it was executed poorly.
I was also disappointed by the combat. One of the greatest appeals, for me, in Bioshock and Bioshock 2 was the ability to interact with the environment to complete combat in new and interesting ways. It because less about trying to get headshots and more about getting into the groove of setting up your win condition. That's what set it apart from the modern shooters that all blend together into a blur of slightly different guns. I would make a game of setting up to see if I could win without directly attacking anyone. The combat in Infinite, on the other hand, felt more like a plodathon, such as COD, but with some token magic thrown in to appease to original fans. But your magic quickly drains and features fairly brief effects. I had to use the most accurate weapon I could find and go for headshots, because there really wasn't many other options for most fights. And most of the tears were just token and only for combat. Performing as a poor substitute for the preparations you could set up in Bioshock. Make cover so I can shoot heads without getting shot back so easy. Make a vantage point to better shoot heads from. Make a tiny puddle of oil or water so that my vigor can be sligtly more effective if I happen to get someone just while they're standing on the X. Make health kits or salts because apparently limiting how many guns I find suddenly made it impossible to also carry med kits. There was only one thing I can remember Elizabeth being able to summon that wasn't just for a set piece or combat... a discount vending machine. But even that was token, featuring only the first two upgrades that were available chapters before then. It was empty for me in the first game I summoned it...
So if they remove environment interactivity, restrict the effectiveness of magic, make shooting guns more important, and the only things they add are mostly token or replace something else they've taken away... then I start to feel disappointed.
I like the rails, I must say, they gave me the only other option to shooting things: which was to jump on and off of them constantly with the right gear on until everything else was dead. Become the Mario. A nice maze section with rails would've been nice though. Not a big one, but enough to offer a challenge besides just fighting people.
Actually, that's another thing that ended up leaving a disappointed taste in my mouth: No other challenge besides "go here and shoot thing". I guess you could say that hunting down lockpicks to get into hidden areas was a challenge, but that's just a collectables thing, I'm talking about gameplay challenges. The hacking mechanic might've sucked, but at least it was better than just fighting things all the time. Timed running puzzles seem superfluous when you have to deal with them, but at least it was better than just fighting things all the time. Having to search for quest items might seem like backtracking, but at least it's better than fighting things all the time.
Hell, I would've even enjoyed a horrible platforming section just for the damned variety in challenge. Also, because you'd have to be jumping across the air, miles up in the sky, and that's cool.
All I'm saying is that the game part of this game was pretty bland compared to its predecessors. Not what I was expecting from a sequel to Bioshock.
I mean the OP had stupid reasons for his disappointments... but that doesn't mean there aren't legitimate things to be disappointed about.
For one, while this city is an amazing thing to behold, it's not very dynamic. Sure it changes, but not while you're around. For one glorious chapter, we started to experience the world as it fell apart, the tower you were in was being torn to shreds. Then you had to escape as sections of the city were breaking beneath you. After all that though, everything was gated off or already destroyed.
You walk through a couple of tears and suddenly a war had started without you. You didn't get to see the Vox Populi rise up from a struggling community of outcasts to soldiers fighting a revolution. One minute they needed guns to challenge the authority and the next minute they rival the city's army. While the concept was neat, it was executed poorly.
I was also disappointed by the combat. One of the greatest appeals, for me, in Bioshock and Bioshock 2 was the ability to interact with the environment to complete combat in new and interesting ways. It because less about trying to get headshots and more about getting into the groove of setting up your win condition. That's what set it apart from the modern shooters that all blend together into a blur of slightly different guns. I would make a game of setting up to see if I could win without directly attacking anyone. The combat in Infinite, on the other hand, felt more like a plodathon, such as COD, but with some token magic thrown in to appease to original fans. But your magic quickly drains and features fairly brief effects. I had to use the most accurate weapon I could find and go for headshots, because there really wasn't many other options for most fights. And most of the tears were just token and only for combat. Performing as a poor substitute for the preparations you could set up in Bioshock. Make cover so I can shoot heads without getting shot back so easy. Make a vantage point to better shoot heads from. Make a tiny puddle of oil or water so that my vigor can be sligtly more effective if I happen to get someone just while they're standing on the X. Make health kits or salts because apparently limiting how many guns I find suddenly made it impossible to also carry med kits. There was only one thing I can remember Elizabeth being able to summon that wasn't just for a set piece or combat... a discount vending machine. But even that was token, featuring only the first two upgrades that were available chapters before then. It was empty for me in the first game I summoned it...
So if they remove environment interactivity, restrict the effectiveness of magic, make shooting guns more important, and the only things they add are mostly token or replace something else they've taken away... then I start to feel disappointed.
I like the rails, I must say, they gave me the only other option to shooting things: which was to jump on and off of them constantly with the right gear on until everything else was dead. Become the Mario. A nice maze section with rails would've been nice though. Not a big one, but enough to offer a challenge besides just fighting people.
Actually, that's another thing that ended up leaving a disappointed taste in my mouth: No other challenge besides "go here and shoot thing". I guess you could say that hunting down lockpicks to get into hidden areas was a challenge, but that's just a collectables thing, I'm talking about gameplay challenges. The hacking mechanic might've sucked, but at least it was better than just fighting things all the time. Timed running puzzles seem superfluous when you have to deal with them, but at least it was better than just fighting things all the time. Having to search for quest items might seem like backtracking, but at least it's better than fighting things all the time.
Hell, I would've even enjoyed a horrible platforming section just for the damned variety in challenge. Also, because you'd have to be jumping across the air, miles up in the sky, and that's cool.
All I'm saying is that the game part of this game was pretty bland compared to its predecessors. Not what I was expecting from a sequel to Bioshock.
I can't say i'm dissapointed in the game itsef, its pure awesome.
But i am a bit dissapointed some things people assumed from the first footage never made it in or got wattered down. The founders vs Vox conflict in particular fell a bit to the backside, especially the Vox leader. There was also much less sense of things being ''off'' then in an earlier gameplay trailer where you could see a woman clean up a buring house(Its still there but on the background and no one mentions it) Or a politician giving an angry speech about the Vox populi without being awhere there is only a single person listening to him. Aside from the fact that its flying and the people are all biggots Columbia seems more like a normal city then i imagined.
But i am a bit dissapointed some things people assumed from the first footage never made it in or got wattered down. The founders vs Vox conflict in particular fell a bit to the backside, especially the Vox leader. There was also much less sense of things being ''off'' then in an earlier gameplay trailer where you could see a woman clean up a buring house(Its still there but on the background and no one mentions it) Or a politician giving an angry speech about the Vox populi without being awhere there is only a single person listening to him. Aside from the fact that its flying and the people are all biggots Columbia seems more like a normal city then i imagined.
Elizabeth did not force Booker to give Anna to Lutece (is it "Loo-tes" or "Leh-toos"?). It was always meant to be that way, at least from his timeline. They were just going through what was essentially a flashback at that point. She could basically see forever [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2YyTpXkges] is what I'm saying..Koshok said:
Timetravel and parallel universes always bring up problems in logic and whatnot. For me, personally, I wasn't really bothered by it. I enjoyed the game immensely, though I do agree that there are some parts that could have been expanded upon really easily. I mean, we are given context about what the plasmids and Big Daddies are in the original BioShock, yet we don't get much context as to how the vigors work or what exactly Songbird is. I never really got the feeling that the Vox Populi were a real threat, they sortof just show up to move the plot and your quest for them becomes irrelevant once you go through the tears.
You don't see much history of who Daisy Fitzroy is, how the Vox truly started, or really see the actual -current- conflict between the Founders and Vox as was advertised. I also felt there was an excess in weapons, there really wasn't much reason to have two different types of weapons for the two factions, all it did was add more extraneous weapons and upgrades that will be underused and as a result underpowered when you have to use them. You'll quickly develop favorites, so bringing weapons later that are somewhat different wont change anything. The setting, as well, I felt was slightly underutilized later in the game.
Some elements weren't really expanded on at all, like the Raven cult thing. The hell was up with those guys, can anyone tell me?
All that being said, I still greatly enjoyed the game. The skylines were a blast to use, loved all the vigors even if I only used a few at a time. I loved Elizabeth, her animation and voice acting, it all just felt very natural, and as an aspiring animator it definitely looked nice. The story overall was well done, despite the conundrums that multi-universes and timelines do.
I disagree with one of your points that Booker was inconsistently characterized. Booker is rarely in this game anything more than a real bastard. I've mentioned this before in another thread, he's a big picture kinda guy. How many folks does he mow down even before its about anything more than erasing a debt to him? Even at the end of the game he professes how willing he is to smother a baby in it's crib just to be done with the whole thing.
And what of Comstock? He's a big picture bastard as well. Just one who's found God! What the game says to me is that religion doesn't magically transform bad people into good people, and sometimes it can even exaggerate those darker elements of a personality when someone feels they're above any judgement but some God's.
And what of Comstock? He's a big picture bastard as well. Just one who's found God! What the game says to me is that religion doesn't magically transform bad people into good people, and sometimes it can even exaggerate those darker elements of a personality when someone feels they're above any judgement but some God's.
The alternate world business was the story. That's like saying dreams were unnecessary to Inception's narrative. Without the alternate world stuff Infinite's story would have been identical (and I mean almost exactly identical) to Super Mario Bros.IPunchWithMyFists said:
My favourite part about the game was how gorgeous the environments were, not from a graphics standpoint but just how well the art design was. Unfortunately I think the whole game kind of has a unmet aspirations vibe by which I mean that there was a lot more that the design team wanted to do but didn't manage to get in in time. I'm saving my 1999 run in the hopes that there will be some DLC that fleshes out the game a bit.
The Hall of Heroes and the market district / bank were the only instances of backtracking I can think of and they don't even take all that long. Unless you're counting the police lockup / gunsmith's shop but that was another world so I wouldn't really consider it backtracking. Overall I think the game was much more linear than the other two, you couldn't even revisit older levels after passing a certain point.IPunchWithMyFists said:
It is one of the greatest games I have ever played.
I'm going to proceed assuming that everyone here has played the game, so...
SPOILERS
Edit: You know what, I'm putting them in tags anyway. Just in case.
I'm going to proceed assuming that everyone here has played the game, so...
SPOILERS
Edit: You know what, I'm putting them in tags anyway. Just in case.
I can't really think of a way to respond to that other than to say that I disagree with every single point on that list.IPunchWithMyFists said:
IPunchWithMyFists said:
The twist wasn't saying that baptism made Comstock evil. The baptism prevented Comstock from ever coming to terms with the sins he'd committed, because he believed (wrongly) that the baptism washed those sins away. He essentially started using his faith as a shield from his guilt, as opposed to Booker, who was forced to confront his guilt head-on.
Booker's guilt motivated him to become a better person. Comstock simply came to believe that his religious conviction made him a better person, and thus never really changed his behaviour.
Booker's guilt motivated him to become a better person. Comstock simply came to believe that his religious conviction made him a better person, and thus never really changed his behaviour.
All of the vigors are actually tremendously useful in their own way, and it's kind of funny to read about other people playing the game and choosing to use vigors I dismissed as useless. There was a thread about it hanging around a couple days ago that you should really read.EHKOS said:
Audio logs can be replayed from the gameplay menu, which also has a transcript for each one. The reason why the logs fade out when ambient dialogue starts up is because you can't replay ambient dialogue, but you can replay an audio log.EHKOS said:
Koshok said:
I interpreted her behaviour shift post-Siphon as the effect of her realising that her rescuer and her jailor were the same person, and that Booker was ultimately responsible for everything that had happened to her. Initially, it was confusing - I was wondering what was stopping Elizabeth from just teleporting them both to Paris - but when the ending comes, her attitude makes sense.
It's one thing to have Booker tell her that he's a bad person; it's another thing for her to to realise that he sold her as an infant to an alternate universe version of himself who imprisoned her in a tower with the intention of torturing her until she became a genocidal religious fanatic.
It's one thing to have Booker tell her that he's a bad person; it's another thing for her to to realise that he sold her as an infant to an alternate universe version of himself who imprisoned her in a tower with the intention of torturing her until she became a genocidal religious fanatic.
I liked it, and genuinely played straight through in almost a single sitting and a few beers. Normally, I play games a bit here and a bit there over the course of a few days - I was so into it that I beat it in a day which I never do.
I didn't like that I only used two main weapons the entire game, though I would have done that in every other game anyway. A Sniper Rifle and a Pistol.
I didn't like that I only used two main weapons the entire game, though I would have done that in every other game anyway. A Sniper Rifle and a Pistol.
They do explain a lot of that stuff if you get the audiologs. The vigours are implied to have been based on / stolen by Fink plasmids from Rapture through a tear. Daisy Fitzroy was an attendant to Lady Comstock and was scapegoated in her murder, escaping to found the Vox, while the Raven cult were the bodyguards of Lady Comstock and basically went to shit after she was killed.Jumplion said:
I do agree on the weapons, the burstgun in particular was absolutely useless. I spent all my cash on vigours and left the guns unupgraded since I was guaranteed to have the vigours on hand.
I had a different interpretation,bastardofmelbourne said:
in that Booker's increasingly frequent memory 'leaks' and nosebleeds were symptoms of him losing his sanity as a result of the alternate Booker (the Vox hero) dying. As it progresses he starts to reimagine his trip through Columbia (in the future, at the time of the baptism) as the 'vision from the archangel' and writes a new memory for himself (as was mentioned would happen by the Luteces) gradually becoming Comstock.
That's the thing though - it's not a proper sequel, which is probably why you were disappointed. You gotta treat it like a different game because it is a different game. Bioshock was an FPS with RPG elements. Bioshock Infinite is an FPS. The RPG elements are too lite to even merit a mention.Pebkio said:
The subtle difference between Booker and Comstock and Fitzroy for that matter is that, Booker is very aware of his flaws as a person. Comstock and Fitzroy aren't. Those voxophones and their actions... they put themselves up on pedestals as avatars of righteous causes justifying their equal thirst for blood and death they have caused.AgentNein said:
While I far from hated it, I do agree with many of your points, and many other points raised by other posters.
I also, quite frequently, would pick up a voxaphone hear one or two words, then Elizabeth would chirp in with some random dialog that would cancel out the vox, meaning I'd have to wait for her to shut up then replay it. I know it's not a biggie, but it pulls you out the immersion of the game, and a good handful of times at that.
I'd also just like to say, though I play it on PC, I did have a 30 minutes session on a friends ps3 (I'm also a ps3 owner for the record) and it handled like a bloody brick. I know this isn't the games fault though.
I realise I've ranted a little, and I'm usually not this critical over games, but I've waited for Infinite for quite a few years now and was super excited for it's release only to be fairly disappointed. There are, however, many things I do like about the game; enough so that I'm on my third play through. Not a patch on the first Bioshock for me though
Yup, agree with this. I played about with them all, but didn't really think any of them were particularly amazing so I just used the carbine and hand cannon for pretty much the whole game as they did the job that every other gun did pretty much. There was no need for certain weapons for certain situations etc.Legion said:
Couldn't agree with this more! Songbird was built as some big 'abusive husband' type threat in all the pre-hype, yet we actually only see him/her/it 3/4 times for about 5 seconds. There was such little effort put in to it's story I generally felt very little when it died. Some further vigor explanations would have been nice, even just via voxaphones. I really wish they had told us more about The Handymen, I know we got a brief insight (1/2 vox's) in to them, but I remember an interview with Ken Levine during the development stages showing off the artwork etc for them and hinting at their story by saying (something along the lines of) "it's cruel and saddening, but we won't spoil it here" then in the game we still only get about as much information. The boys of silence are something else I'd like more of an explanation on too.Legion said:
This too, I genuinely forgot that it was a flying city after while. The skyrails were not really in it that much either and often when they were, it was for set pieces that kinda forced you to use them. i.e the airship part towards the end.Legion said:
This is pretty much my thoughts on the ending too. I've stated my opinion about this elsewhere and get the reply "you don't understand it" Yes, yes I do. I understand what you're trying to drive home, Infinite, but you have more plot holes than an allotment with a mole infestation. Just because it's a little tricky for some people to grasp the concept doesn't make it good writing.jcfrommars9 said:
yupDryk said:
I also, quite frequently, would pick up a voxaphone hear one or two words, then Elizabeth would chirp in with some random dialog that would cancel out the vox, meaning I'd have to wait for her to shut up then replay it. I know it's not a biggie, but it pulls you out the immersion of the game, and a good handful of times at that.
I agree, the Vigors felt either useless or too overpowered. I barely used them, even on 1999 mode. I understand that it's going to be hard for them to come up with something new/exciting but the Vigors we got are just the same magic spells you get in the majority of RPGs.EHKOS said:
I have quite a problem with this too as it just leads towards very sloppy writing. "Why is X like this?", "Oh, we don't need to explain, everything is possible here!" Basically like the force in Star Wars, which is now used to patch over any holes in the plots "It just is!"Lunncal said:
I'd also just like to say, though I play it on PC, I did have a 30 minutes session on a friends ps3 (I'm also a ps3 owner for the record) and it handled like a bloody brick. I know this isn't the games fault though.
I realise I've ranted a little, and I'm usually not this critical over games, but I've waited for Infinite for quite a few years now and was super excited for it's release only to be fairly disappointed. There are, however, many things I do like about the game; enough so that I'm on my third play through. Not a patch on the first Bioshock for me though
Some disappointment is to be expected for a game as anticipated as this one. After that first trailer everyone's imaginations went into overdrive. I mean, how could they not? My biggest problem was the confusing ending. It was like watching the endings of 2001: a space odyssey, The Sixth Sense, and N.G.Evangelion having a threesome while the M.E.3 ending was watching them through a hole in the wall. I had to read the plot synopsis on wikipedia to get it, there should be a rule against that in game design.
You...pretty much said what I was going to sayCityofTreez said:
I liked the game immensely (just after completing it on hard) The last battle on the bridge was intense and marvellous fun and a real challenge since I kinda suck at shooters.I liked the convoluted story, Found the Handymen just as much a challenge as the Big Daddys, And was genuinely upset when songbird died. Loved that we got so see Rapture again!
As a whole I thought it was as good as Bioschock, but not necessarily better. Think Rocky Road rather than Fudge Brownie. Both Awesome, but different.
Also, Booker = Comstock where in the game does it say that? Did I miss something or is that a theory?
I did miss a few voxphones
so my knowledge may be a bit spotty...
