App Store Pulling Games That Include the Confederate Flag - UPDATE

FEichinger

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Don Incognito said:
Therumancer said:
What he's saying is that Germany bans the Swatstika in all contexts even going so far as to want Indiana Jones games censored, and the US seems to be heading in a similar direction......


On the media front, we have had witch hunts against Confederate flag merchandise due to left wing pressure, and rather than fighting for free speech we now have companies like Warner Brothers editing shows like "The Dukes Of Hazzard" to remove all the confederate flags (like the ones on the car) and bleep out any mention of "The General Lee" which is the name of that particular souped up car. Allegedly these changes will be made to where the show is still shown in syndication and all DVD collections of the show from now on will have the edits......

Okay, look. You and I may find this a bit silly, but let's pump the brakes a bit.

The swastika is BANNED in Germany. Illegal. NO ONE is trying to do the same to the Confederate Battle Flag. "Free speech" does not enter into the equation at all. No one is having their First Amendment rants trampled here.
Huh, let's start right there:
https://twitter.com/KennettDems/status/612801200786812928

And add a few more to it:
https://twitter.com/RiskyLiberal/status/614202935577219073
https://twitter.com/Blavity/status/614197165158699008
https://twitter.com/NAACP/status/613475222524719104
https://twitter.com/TheBaxterBean/status/612799684717998081
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-e-price/yes-youre-a-racist----and-a-traitor_b_7640654.html
http://www.vox.com/2015/6/25/8846879/ken-burns-civil-war

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/opinion/tearing-down-the-confederate-flag-is-just-a-start.html
I know the rest of the article talks about social issues and all that, but the phrasing "just a start" alone should send shivers down one's spine.

And this gem right here:
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150624/PC16/150629684/three-dozen-sc-lawmakers-avoid-taking-stand-on-removing-confederate-flag
Bullying politicians into agreeing to take it down.

To sum it up:
Tell me how this doesn't look like a mob trying to bully the public into banning it. Tell me how the usual authoritarian left crowd trying to use public outrage as a means of censorship doesn't equate to Germany's ban. I work in Germany. I was educated in Germany for a long time. Trust me when I say that you can expect the legal ban to follow soon. Either that, or even more bullying attempts to ruin the livelihoods of people who dare say what I'm saying: Public outrage censorship is never okay.
 

Pinky's Brain

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This whole movement is stupidly dangerous ... the time to start this discussion is not now, but when things calm down a bit.

They are going to create witch hunts against people who refuse to tow the PC line, a witch hunt with an army looking for someone to blame and easily moved to violence. So not towing the line in this particular case could get you some bigger problems than nasty social media comments.
 

hentropy

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Apple does seem to have stepped in it here, if there is one place where the confederate flag is appropriate it is in a historical Civil War game. Even Wargaming games use Nazi insignia in a limited capacity (can't put the swastika directly on the tank/plane, but the official flag of the Werhmacht with the swastika is used in other ways), along with Soviet insignia and nationalist Chinese insignia some might fight offensive in modern China. My bet is that they will reverse this decision once someone with a brain figures out what happened.
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
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gigastar said:
Someone bring me up to speed here, whats all this moral outrage about flags now?

And why is it still not directed at the lack of gun control?
Probably because, if you don't think guns are the problem, you think that people are. Specifically, the kind of people who brandish the confederate flag.

Pretty simple.

OT: Eh. Apple's always been pretty knee-jerk about what it allows on the App Store, but it'll get fixed.
 

FirstNameLastName

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Nov 6, 2014
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Ok, now this is really getting out of control. I thought it was stupid when there were only a few stores removing the flag, but now it's down right sickening how other corporations are jumping onto the band-wagon and trying to one-up each other. Let's not think for even a second that this is about their corporate principles; they have simply observed that this is a hot button issue at the moment and have gauged which way the wind is blowing, and so they've loudly positioned themselves on the winning team in the name of profits.

Oh, and before any absolute cretins burst in here, let me make the obligatory rant that always has to be made whenever anything similar comes up.
Yes, these companies have the right to do this. No one is contesting their legal right to do it, but you know what, other people also have the right to tell them to go fuck themselves for doing it. Simply having the legal right to do something doesn't mean everyone else is obligated to clap and cheer, the same thing applies to free speech, or any other type of freedom. And yes, the same thing applies to flying the flag. People have the right to speak out about it. We all have these rights so they really aren't relevant to the argument at hand.

In these cases, I really wish people would stop applauding these companies for making token gestures to gain PR, because it really only encourages the reactionary nature that surrounds such issues and it's only a matter of time before you realise it's a double edged sword.
People don't seem to want to accept the fact that these types of attacks can't be solved by simply getting rid of something the shooter had some link to, so they try to sift through the shooter's past and seek out anything to focus on. If it isn't video games or books that get the scrutiny, it's political ideologies and religion; and if nothing particularly interesting can be found then the argument defaults back to good old guns. It really makes me wonder, if major companies stop stocking certain video games[footnote]No, this isn't a reference to the GTA 5 bullshit[/footnote] or books after the next shooting, how many of you will still be on their side and quibbling over the definition of censorship? What if they stop stocking the Quran when enough people shout about it; how many of you "anti-racism" advocates will still be glad they're expressing their rights then?
 

Recusant

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RaikuFA said:
gigastar said:
Why are they still not adressing the core problems?
Because the core problem is the NRA. You know, the guys with guns that use them to intimitate people into scapegoating others?
No. The core problem is someone deciding to pick a gun and shoot people, then picking up a gun and shooting people.
-Take away the guns and they'll use bombs (like the Tsarnaevs) or pathogens (like the anthrax attackers), or some other means of murder.
-Establish better mental health facilities and the violently insane won't feel any compulsion to use them; they'll probably figure they were set up by the government to control the masses, or some such nonsense.

Better gun laws and better medical care availability can help- they can reduce the number of attacks, and sometimes mitigate the damage done. But ultimately, the core problem is people deciding to do these horrible things. It's terrifying to admit, and it can't be stopped, and the fear prompts people to assume "if we just do X, this will never happen again". But it's not the guns or the madness that's pulling the trigger. It's will, pure and simple.

MarsAtlas said:
Stupid, but Apple has set a precedent in being stupid and doing everything possible toavoid stepping on a twig, so I can't really say I'm surprised nor disappointed. Hopefully this hasn't effected any other game retailers. Any word on Google Play or Microsoft's app storefront doing anything similarly idiotic?
According to the article itself (though this particular bit isn't sourced), Walmart, Amazon, Sears and Ebay are all doing the same thing, which means it's worse than just game retailers.

Char-Nobyl said:
The first is just from a historical and logical perspective. These games were about the Civil War. Unless they were some kind of neo-Confederate revisionist history type thing that glorified the Confederacy, I see literally no way that Apple's explanation of, "We are writing to notify you that your app has been removed from the App Store because it includes images of the confederate flag used in offensive and mean-spirited ways," could be valid.
Well, in the interest of fairness, these games do feature people marching under the Confederate flag shooting and killing people. You have to give them that much.
 

Louzerman102

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Weaver said:
I'm sure the flag's removal from historical video games will stop the flag from shooting people in the future.
Tim Cook hopes so as well "My thoughts are with the victim's families in SC. Let us honor their lives by eradicating racism & removing the symbols & words that feed it." 3:28 PM - 21 Jun 2015 (He's the CEO of Apple)

Flags are just so violent and hateful, good thing they don't have thumbs or the body count would be higher.
 

FalloutJack

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Nov 20, 2008
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This is funny, because I heard about a petition to tell the south to give up their flag in real life.
 

Skatologist

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Don Incognito said:
FEichinger said:
Trust me when I say that you can expect the legal ban to follow soon.
Care to make a wager on that? I'd be willing to go into four figures on such a bet.
Damn, can only manage 3 figures at the moment.


MarsAtlas said:
Recusant said:
MarsAtlas said:
Stupid, but Apple has set a precedent in being stupid and doing everything possible toavoid stepping on a twig, so I can't really say I'm surprised nor disappointed. Hopefully this hasn't effected any other game retailers. Any word on Google Play or Microsoft's app storefront doing anything similarly idiotic?
According to the article itself (though this particular bit isn't sourced), Walmart, Amazon, Sears and Ebay are all doing the same thing, which means it's worse than just game retailers.
No, the article stated that those retailers were no longer selling confederate flags, not historical games that use the flag as a representation for the south. One is a completely stupid, absent-minded and arbitrary decision, and the other is an arbitrary decision that they thought out prior to doing because there's real weight to decision.
Well, that is indeed the distinction, but Walmart and other retailers got rid of all their confederate merchandise. You know, the bandanas, shirts, socks, and bikinis people wear to glorify that thing?

Here's one of a few sources I found: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/23/walmart-removes-confederate-flag-merchandise-from-stores
 

PH3NOmenon

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Forcing children to recite oaths to their country wasn't enough. Now you have to ban the flag of your historic opponent and darker side of your history from being seen in public?

America is scary.
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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im amazed at how well the developers of Gettysburg took this. a very mature response from them.

gigastar said:
Thats the Swastika youre thinking about.
Its more than just Swastika. This [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nvkf7PG9wZQ/TzUSotUgdaI/AAAAAAAALks/mpx-IgYMFv4/s1600/Troll+Pride+World+Wide.jpg] would also be illegal.

gigastar said:
Why go after something so trivial?

Why are they still not adressing the core problems?
because adressing the core problems would take actual effort and going after something trivial allows them to pretend like they are doing something about it.

Gatlank said:
I'm already waiting for when this starts to spill on history books.
Your a bit out of the loop, it already happened
http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/education/item/17991-common-core-approved-textbooks-rewrite-second-amendment
http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/education/item/18981-scandal-engulfs-common-core-architect-for-rewrite-of-us-history
 

frizzlebyte

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Pyrian said:
FEichinger said:
Every single person who advocates for the banning of the Confederate flag loses all moral high ground against Germany when it comes to banning nazi symbolism.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold your horses, here. Private companies deciding what symbols they, themselves want to sell is in no way comparable to government mandated censorship. Nor is government entities deciding what symbols they want to display on government property comparable to government mandated censorship of private citizens.

Nobody is making it illegal to make and display your very own confederate flag.
See, this is the kind of mentality I simply don't understand. Okay, so let's say that I want to own "my very own Confederate flag."

If I can't find a retailer that sells one, either because of self-censorship (Amazon, Ebay, Apple) or because reactionary doofuses (doofusi?) armed with Facebook accounts and inflated egos will ***** and whine until they stop selling them, how is that functionally *any* different from simply banning the flag at the state or federal level?

Lack of freedom can come just as easily from corporate and popular tyranny as from state tyranny.
 

Jadak

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The pointlessness of the action aside, wouldn't this actually have a net negative impact? To the anti-flag population, this is meaningless, it earns a views nods of approval and that's that, issue forgotten shortly after, and the nonsense removal of usages in historical context will probably be undone soon enough.

But what about the Confederate flag waving nutjobs out there? The sort of people who actually rally behind such a thing aren't going to approve, and they won't quickly forget. Given that there's no actual benefits to banning the symbol, it seems rather stupid to provide a unifying outrage for hateful people to respond to.
 

Pinky's Brain

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My country both used slaves in it's colonies and sold slaves under it's current flag, I fly it's colours without giving that a second thought. The confederate flag is not an inherent symbol of hatefulness.

It was always a sensitive issue, but never to this extent. The media and all these knee-jerk companies are busy "educating" black people in interpreting the confederate flag as a direct attack on them ... and they'll excuse any violence which results, as well as their role in causing it.

Can we combine draw Mohammed day with confederate flag day?
 

Demagogue

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Mar 26, 2009
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All I'm going to add is that I can't wait for the UK to get outraged at their citizens flying the traitorous American scum's flag, or Japan developers to stop promoting the American slaughter of thousands of countrymen in any games they make.

I'm just going to leave some quotes here that I think some Americans seem to be forgetting...

Freedom of speech is a principal pillar of a free government; when this support is taken away, the constitution of a free society is dissolved, and tyranny is erected on its ruins.
If all printers were determined not to print anything till they were sure it would offend nobody, there would be very little printed.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
All from your pal Benjamin Franklin.
 

Recusant

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MarsAtlas said:
Recusant said:
MarsAtlas said:
Stupid, but Apple has set a precedent in being stupid and doing everything possible toavoid stepping on a twig, so I can't really say I'm surprised nor disappointed. Hopefully this hasn't effected any other game retailers. Any word on Google Play or Microsoft's app storefront doing anything similarly idiotic?
According to the article itself (though this particular bit isn't sourced), Walmart, Amazon, Sears and Ebay are all doing the same thing, which means it's worse than just game retailers.
No, the article stated that those retailers were no longer selling confederate flags, not historical games that use the flag as a representation for the south. One is a completely stupid, absent-minded and arbitrary decision, and the other is an arbitrary decision that they thought out prior to doing because there's real weight to decision.
I quote: "...Apple has joined the ranks of Walmart, Amazon, Sears, and Ebay, who have all stated that they will no longer sell merchandise that includes the Confederate flag." That very clearly is not just "selling Confedaret flags", but merchandise that includes them. I don't see how you could mistake that for just referring to them flags themselves.
 

Grahav

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Pinky said:
My country both used slaves in it's colonies and sold slaves under it's current flag, I fly it's colours without giving that a second thought. The confederate flag is not an inherent symbol of hatefulness.

It was always a sensitive issue, but never to this extent. The media and all these knee-jerk companies are busy "educating" black people in interpreting the confederate flag as a direct attack on them ... and they'll excuse any violence which results, as well as their role in causing it.

Can we combine draw Mohammed day with confederate flag day?
Yep. Streisand effect.


You bet. I have drawn Mohammed and then I have an urge to buy a confederate flag (even though I am brazilian).

Although.


There are people who fly these flags for hateful reasons and people who fly it to celebrate their culture and their customs. The confederate flag in this city represents the latter.

If the confederate flag must be banned because racists wave it, the US flag must also be banned because /pol/ waves it. Anything with a sickle and a hammer must also go considering the mass raping, hunger genocides and dictator ship engineered by the Soviet Union. Ah, you can't forget 1400 years of Jihad so if there is a crescent moon, say good bye.

We should also ban crosses because christians hate gays. And also ban the rainbow flag, because gays hate christians.
 

Thyunda

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Char-Nobyl said:
This bothers me for two reasons.

The first is just from a historical and logical perspective. These games were about the Civil War. Unless they were some kind of neo-Confederate revisionist history type thing that glorified the Confederacy, I see literally no way that Apple's explanation of, "We are writing to notify you that your app has been removed from the App Store because it includes images of the confederate flag used in offensive and mean-spirited ways," could be valid.

The second is a result of the first: because I have literally no idea why Apple could logically believe the explanation that they gave, I can only believe that this is a cynical, tasteless attempt to get good PR in the wake of a tragedy.

"Look over here!" they cry at the shocked public and grieving families, "We're deleting games from our App store because of how much we care about you!"
Even if it was a neo-Confederate revisionist history type thing that glorified the Confederacy, we have games and books and films about the bloody Nazis winning. Sven Hassel wrote a whole series about a soldier who fought for the Nazis. Ban the sale of the Confederate flag in major stores, sure - we don't sell swastikas, or the Rhodesian flag, or the pre-Revolution French flag, so we've got no business selling the Confederate one either.

You are right, though - Apple are either trying to callously milk this for PR, or they've got a 'brand manager' who is clinically insane.