App Store Pulling Games That Include the Confederate Flag - UPDATE
- Thread starter Lizzy Finnegan
- Start date
Slacktivism at its finest. Sigh.Zontar said:
OT: I'm not in favor of the Confederate flag, but I'm also not in favor of telling people what they can and can't think as far as opinions or beliefs go. The totally not Voltaire quote says it best, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Evelyn Hall
I'm not in agreement with people's views if they're racist but I am of the mind as long as they're not going out of their way and trying to harm people, whether through verbal bullying or physical violence, they've every right to be as ignorant as they want to be. Those views are around, yes but I'm also believing that ignorance of that sort is on the decline. It'll never be eradicated in my lifetime, but its definitively a different world than it was during the Civil Rights movement.
There's still a fear of other feeling at times, and being a US citizen, there's a part of me that feels in political terms, there are still racists in every political walk. But its also not a universally held viewpoint either. There are more than likely just as many ignorant xenophobes and/or racists of any color in every party, but not all Republicans/Conservatives are racist homophobes, and not all Democrats/Liberals are paragons of social acceptance.
Ignorance knows no party line, no skin color and no creed. Its universal in such a way that you can't always tell simply by how someone votes, or whatever side of the tracks they may live on.
I personally do my best to be open minded and let people be judged by their actions and merit and not by stupid lines of how light or dark skin color is, or if they're female/male/trans, gay/straight/everything in-between. People are people and just like ignorance and such are not universally held beliefs, neither is everyone tolerant and accepting.
In all honesty what flag someone waves is the least of the real problems that are happening in this little corner of the world. If you want to be fair and honest about stuff like this, why not ban the sale, possession and private display ALL flags by every citizen of the US, whether its a US flag, Mexican Flag, Puerto Rican Flag, Cuban Flag, etc.? Solve a lot of bullshit real quick there with that or create a bunch of bullshit. People would just find a different way of expressing themselves and their racist/non-racist/whatever point of views. Ban 'em all, even the flags representing religions or sexual preference. Can't be fair and equal if you pick and choose which ones are considered "OK" and which ones are "dangerous". Fuck it, ban it all.
Flags don't mean as much as people would like to think they do. Its just a styled, pigmented piece of cloth flapping in the breeze. Of course if we banned all flags then we'd have to figure out another way to play CTF (which can be done) or flag football... XD
This whole thing is silly and it really takes away from the real issue at hand, but people will tout it as a "progressive" step towards "unity" or some such bullshit when in reality it hasn't changed anything. Ridiculous, ludicrous bullshit.
Absolutely shameful.
Even if you were the type of self-righteous, book-burning villain who would have a game pulled from a major distribution platform like the App Store solely because you found its use of a confederate flag upsetting, you'd still have to admit that merely protecting your fee fees is not worth the loss of eliminating games using the flag in a historical context... right?
Even if you were the type of self-righteous, book-burning villain who would have a game pulled from a major distribution platform like the App Store solely because you found its use of a confederate flag upsetting, you'd still have to admit that merely protecting your fee fees is not worth the loss of eliminating games using the flag in a historical context... right?
A Confederate BATTLE Flag (not the civilian flag) is ok it is in a work about the Civil War but is totally inappropriate flying on the grounds of a modern state capital. Especially right after a racially motivated killing when said flag is used as a international symbol of racism. Why is this so hard for people to understand!
It's not necessarily that that particular flag IS evil, but it has come to REPRESENT evil. Symbols can take different meanings - just look as what the Nazis did to peaceful Buddhist (it's been used in many cultures throughout history though) symbol. We don't think, "All is well" when we see it now do we?. The people flying tend to be people filled with hate, xenophobia, and ignorance. Whatever it's past significance, "true meaning" or however else people want to the think about it. It has become, and is now, a symbol of hate. Otherwise, why does the KKK beat off to it so much? It sure as hell isn't some psuedo-noble "sovereignty of the the individual" garbage.Zontar said:
On the article: This is rediculous. Let me be the first to say, "Fuck the Stars and Bars". But that battle flag is a part of history. It shouldn't be erased. The more history people erase, the more people forget. The more people forget, the more likely history is to repeat. In Alabama there is a stretch of interstate between Montgomery and Mobile. On one side of the road there is a bill board that says, "This is America! Love it or Leave it!", immediately above another that says "Go to church! Or the Devil will get you!, whilst on the other side of the street and a few klicks later there is a giant Confederate battle flag. On the one hand, this scene disgusted me to my core. But on the other it lets us know who the fringe are, we can see its standard bearers and have no doubt of their ignorance. And we can be reminded of whom we don't ever want to become.
As glad as I am that they are the Democrat symbols down from state capitals, this draconian censorship seems mental. This is a flag, it's not that Monolith from Dead Space, it doesn't actually CAUSE racism. I dislike how people use the victims dead bodies as a podium to push their agenda.
It is sort of sad that this is what moved me to make an account to comment, but alas.
This sort of agenda pushing in the name of the victims is sickening, honestly. It is a testament to how far-gone the atmosphere surrounding race and political correctness is that just the mere historical use of a confederate flag in a video game prompts a takedown of the media. What's worse is that this is ultimately self-serving, corporations are doing this to promote themselves, again sickening. I live in a State that was divided neighbor vs neighbor, brother against brother in the war; I can't fathom how unbelievably absent-minded or self-centered it must be that someone would even suggest censorship of this level. They are video games, they aren't racist manifestos.
I hope that this circumstance doesn't give rise to more unneeded and belligerent identity politics that I have witnessed in other fronts of social causes. "Racism" will further be used to crusade, in this instance against those who would oppose Apple's stupid decision, assuredly if that were the case. More patreon accounts are on the horizon, possibly.
Thank you, Lizzy. That quote about Schindler's list was most fitting.
This sort of agenda pushing in the name of the victims is sickening, honestly. It is a testament to how far-gone the atmosphere surrounding race and political correctness is that just the mere historical use of a confederate flag in a video game prompts a takedown of the media. What's worse is that this is ultimately self-serving, corporations are doing this to promote themselves, again sickening. I live in a State that was divided neighbor vs neighbor, brother against brother in the war; I can't fathom how unbelievably absent-minded or self-centered it must be that someone would even suggest censorship of this level. They are video games, they aren't racist manifestos.
I hope that this circumstance doesn't give rise to more unneeded and belligerent identity politics that I have witnessed in other fronts of social causes. "Racism" will further be used to crusade, in this instance against those who would oppose Apple's stupid decision, assuredly if that were the case. More patreon accounts are on the horizon, possibly.
Thank you, Lizzy. That quote about Schindler's list was most fitting.
People are all about free market and the like but the moment the market doesn't agree with them they start complaining, Apple is free to ban or sell whatever they want, and you're free to go somewhere else to buy it. Whether it's wrong for them to ban X or Y that is subjective and non important.
I'm not from the US or have ever lived there, BUT from what I know this flag has been used by groups such as KKK to represent themselves, and it was used by the side of a war that wanted to keep having slaves, SO, with that in mind, I could see how african americans will feel it's wrong for people to wave these flags around specially in public government buildings. As for the games that show the flag etc, I don't see a problem about historic games (not those glorifying the flag or its racists background) showing the flag specially if its for historical accuracy. But you know, someone will make some sort of website where you can buy all this shit and install it in your phone, that's the way thinks should work imo.
And for the people saying this is all a "knee jerk" reaction, I wonder how they want people to react and go about making things better once it becomes glaringly obvious it is. In Australia it seems like they banned guns after there was a really terrible shooting and they said they had enough, should they NOT have reacted to it? would that have pleased the "knee jerk" alarmists. And let's not forget that certain group of angry internet idiots got REALLY mad REALLY quickly about certain articles on the internet and in mass requested a sponsor to withdraw backing from a certain website, that sounds pretty knee jerky to me as well, yet it's not wrong when the other side does it.?
Individuals in the US are free to have their flags and wave it on their porches, even start making and selling their own flags since now they can't buy them at walmart and the like. Seems to me like they are defending a symbol for all the wrong reasons and can't even imagine how anyone might be offended by that flag when in their minds its all well and good, never bother to look at the other side of things. Guess that's what happens when your side has never been the target of so much discrimination for so long.
I'm not from the US or have ever lived there, BUT from what I know this flag has been used by groups such as KKK to represent themselves, and it was used by the side of a war that wanted to keep having slaves, SO, with that in mind, I could see how african americans will feel it's wrong for people to wave these flags around specially in public government buildings. As for the games that show the flag etc, I don't see a problem about historic games (not those glorifying the flag or its racists background) showing the flag specially if its for historical accuracy. But you know, someone will make some sort of website where you can buy all this shit and install it in your phone, that's the way thinks should work imo.
And for the people saying this is all a "knee jerk" reaction, I wonder how they want people to react and go about making things better once it becomes glaringly obvious it is. In Australia it seems like they banned guns after there was a really terrible shooting and they said they had enough, should they NOT have reacted to it? would that have pleased the "knee jerk" alarmists. And let's not forget that certain group of angry internet idiots got REALLY mad REALLY quickly about certain articles on the internet and in mass requested a sponsor to withdraw backing from a certain website, that sounds pretty knee jerky to me as well, yet it's not wrong when the other side does it.?
Individuals in the US are free to have their flags and wave it on their porches, even start making and selling their own flags since now they can't buy them at walmart and the like. Seems to me like they are defending a symbol for all the wrong reasons and can't even imagine how anyone might be offended by that flag when in their minds its all well and good, never bother to look at the other side of things. Guess that's what happens when your side has never been the target of so much discrimination for so long.
That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. What if I want to play Robert E lee Civil War General!?
It is blatantly obvious from your own admission that your judgement of what the flag means to others is derived from an ethnocentric viewpoint of Americans (including African Americans) and a narrow historical context of the Civil War, not to mention your lack of knowledge about the modern political landscape and subsequently the definition of an open market - not being a market that one 'everyone' agrees with. This is one of the most profoundly stupid censorship issues recently in America considering how many corporations are simultaneously advocating barring the flag from their products, it rivals that of Germany's eradication of Swastika memorabilia. And it is censorship, I know how certain people like to push the idea that censorship can only be administered by a government, however all is needed is to show someone the way to a dictionary. By any authority private or public (government)- "Suppressing parts deemed objectionable on moral, political, military, or other grounds."Tanklover said:
Some commentators have seemed to conflate Apple's decision to remove games with that of the arguably insensitive use of the flag on official government grounds. They are not the same issue, and the focus of this separate action I would think is derailing by making it political to that extent. The fact that you can still buy a flag and hang it on your porch is not an argument, and there is nothing to gain from it's inclusion, it's irrelevant.
If you're going to mention GamerGate then just do it.
"Seems to me like they are defending a symbol for all the wrong reasons and can't even imagine how anyone might be offended by that flag when in their minds its all well and good, never bother to look at the other side of things." You can sit there making generalizing judgments about others and their stance all day, but you should really just read what they post instead.
edit: I will also have to edit in that the fact Apple is indeed within their right as a company to choose what they will and will not sell, that has always been beside the point and is not relevant in dismissing the criticisms that have been levied at Apple or other corporations.
Except that in the case of apps it isn't a free market at all. Apple totally controls the distribution of apps on Apple devices (aka the vast majority of all mobile apps sold), and Apple and Google together control the entirety of mobile app distribution for all practical purposes. There is no free market, just monopolization by two huge mega corporations. The free market solution would be to legally forbid Apple and Google from restricting and controlling the sales of apps on their stores, so that the apps could compete with one another in an actual free market.Tanklover said:
Free markets need to be carefully cultivated and protected by law, otherwise you just end up with monopolies abusing their powers at the detriment of consumers, which is exactly what has happened here.
OT: This sickens me to my very core. Hiding aspects of history deemed distasteful is the worst, most morally bankrupt way to deal with this issue possible, and all because they can't be bothered to deal with any potential complaint against them. To me, this puts Apple in the same category as holocaust deniers, my opinion of that company literally couldn't get any lower after hearing this.
Exactly this, those who cannot understand the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them and as such, media that provides an accurate account of historical events, especially in an engaging manner that facilitates education, should be offered exceptional protection rather than discriminated against, especially if said works are pertinent to current issues such as racial prejudice.Neverhoodian said:
Also, as it's been pointed out, it's a special kind of hypocrisy, that drives people to uniformly cry foul over the Confederates while simultaneously praising Revolutionary War's America - both were largely motivated by a conflict between a central power growing disillusioned with slavery and a powerful minority economically dependent on slave workforce, with additional themes of excessive taxation and personal freedom, with both sides pushing the issues convenient to them into the limelight in their propaganda. The main diffrence was the (suicidal) involvement of France if you get down to it, not that they're getting a lot of credit for it these days either.
I guess that just goes to show history's written by the guys named Victor.
Or something.
Good lord. Why?
I get the issue with the confederate flag, but as people have mentioned, this is a historical game. Apple's take down notice doesn't even make that much sense either: "We are writing to notify you that your app has been removed from the App Store because it includes images of the confederate flag used in offensive and mean-spirited ways", yet they've removed every single civil war game on the app store. I could see some justification if they were picking through these games to see which one are using it in mean-spirited ways, but it seems they cut it off at "We are writing to notify you that your app has been removed from the App Store because it includes images of the confederate flag"
I get the issue with the confederate flag, but as people have mentioned, this is a historical game. Apple's take down notice doesn't even make that much sense either: "We are writing to notify you that your app has been removed from the App Store because it includes images of the confederate flag used in offensive and mean-spirited ways", yet they've removed every single civil war game on the app store. I could see some justification if they were picking through these games to see which one are using it in mean-spirited ways, but it seems they cut it off at "We are writing to notify you that your app has been removed from the App Store because it includes images of the confederate flag"