Apparently Braveheart is Anglophobic?

[Roboshi]

snip

People read up or just learn about wars and colonisations in history, forgetting that those events were proceeded by other wars and other colonisations by other people; The native americans were not just the peaceful natives living on the land, they were waring tribes, the Nazi's didn't invent the idea of mass murdering millions of people for being a certain race (nor would they be the last to do so).

But that's not what you get in a textbook or a movie, the Textbook gives you just the facts on the war/battle it's focused on and the Movie has to adhere to a 3 act structure. Unfortunately the peaceful negotiation of our colonies into independent countries would not exactly get the directors rushing to fill that chair.

 

[Lightspeaker]

Surprised to see a number of people apparently thinking that "Anglophobia" basically isn't a thing. It is, and it has led to people being assaulted.

In any case...yes its pretty much Anglophobic. But then again its a Mel Gibson film and Mel Gibson has a history of being in these kinds of films. Outside of Braveheart (English bastards trying to take over Scotland!) several people have already mentioned The Patriot (British bastards committing Nazi-level war crimes!).

In addition to those two films you can also go back to the film Gallipoli (1981) in which...evil British sat back whilst the Australians died at the Nek as a diversion for British landings. Except in reality it was a diversion for a New Zealand attack. And when it was realised that there was trouble British forces were ordered in to assist the Australians and took heavy casualties themselves. And sort of neatly brushes over the fact that in the Gallipoli campaign as a whole the UK took roughly four times more than anyone else involved in it. But it makes for a better story to go "gah, those British *shakes fist*" I guess.

I really don't know what Mel Gibson has against the British but he REALLY doesn't seem to like us...and based on Braveheart the English in particular.


Regardless I don't think anyone in England is surprised by much anymore. We get vilified or sidelined by films all the damn time. Personally I find the sidelining more offensive than outright being cast as the villain. One particularly bad one being the well known case of U-571; which outright stole the Royal Navy's success in being the driving force capturing Enigma devices and codebooks.

 

[Soleca]

It's massively anglophobic and as an Englishman I feel I have the right to say, it was a great film and I loved every minute of it.

Who cares if people hate the english or make a film portraying us in a bad light, hell it was about people so far back in history it doesn't matter, even if they did a modern day massively anglophobic film I wouldn't care. We've been the bad guys in hollywood for a long time and I enjoy every minute of it.

The real crime in Bravehart is the historical inaccuracies but hey that's hollywood for ya.

It's just a show; people should really just relax.

 

[Thaluikhain]

All these things make it obvious Braveheart isn't trying to depict the events as they actually happened,

Er, if you happen to know about the reality, in which case there isn't going to be an issue.

I really don't know what Mel Gibson has against the British but he REALLY doesn't seem to like us...and based on Braveheart the English in particular.

Eh, well, he is American.

...

YES HE IS!

 

[Katherine Kerensky]

Anglo...phobic?
That sounds like something Tumblr would come up with.
I think it's good and right for the Scottish to have a lingering dislike for us English. Just like the French do.
And the Irish. And maybe the Welsh. And probably a number of European countries.

 

[Bibilongstocking.]

Anglophobic. Suggests an irrational fear of the English.

As an Englishman I would say no. It portrays the English unfairly and also portrays the Scottish people in a far kinder light than it should but then we English are fully aware that this is a FILM and films work better when things are streamlined and deals with 'white hats' and 'black hats' so like other films of it's type *cough*The Patriot*cough* history is moved, altered or outright invented (prima nocte).

The only place Braveheart is really taken as having any historical merit is the few square miles around Glasgow and Edinburgh where Scottish nationalism is most popular. Scots have a real complaint in regards to more modern history when Margaret Thatcher tested her neo liberal policies on them causing widespread unemployment and misery. Since Neo Liberalism has proven not to work at all, and actually been more of a failure in these isles than socialism ever was, in this the Scots have every right to complain. However historically it's important to remember that long before William wallace came along the Scottish people were often fond of raids across the border for a spot of rape, murder, looting and a spot of Arson which is why most of the Border towns were heavily fortified. So no one in this period was an angel.

 

[FalloutJack]

Now I know the movie is incredibly black and white, but I wouldn't call it "Anglophobic." Would you?

Not really. He was Scottish, they were British. You know what the British Empire did to them and the Irish? Quite alot. My father is Irish and I am half-so (also Italian). You know what I really get tired of my dad talking about? Well, lots of things. Good god! Republicans, Muslims, Protestants, AND the English. He tends to go on at length. However, as much as I would prefer that he didn't fill the void with his bellowing, he still had relevant points. The old British Empire caused quite a stir, not necessarily in a good way. Even if everything dad said was a half-truth, it's more than enough to be deplorable. William Wallace wasn't crazy. People were legitimately out to get him and make his life misrerable and then kill him. The Scottish and Irish aren't blowing smoke out of their kilts about all that.

 

[The White Hunter]

Yeah, I won't be losing any sleep over the film but I recall it being a bit over the top when it came to the English enemies. If I was to be cynical, I'd say that along with the 'Freedom!' angle the film makers were trying to hook American audiences by drawing parallels between the Scottish Wars of Independence and their own independence struggle against the English centuries later, historicity be damned.

And then The Patriot came out, also starring Mel Gibson! You know, the one where the British are shown committing war crimes that were actually attributed to the fucking Nazis.

I think we can all agree that Mel Gibson is fucking nuts.

OT: Meh, couldn't care less, don't care for the film but I don't think it's particularly damaging.

 

[The White Hunter]

Anglo...phobic?
That sounds like something Tumblr would come up with.
I think it's good and right for the Scottish to have a lingering dislike for us English. Just like the French do.
And the Irish. And maybe the Welsh. And probably a number of European countries.

No because Tumblr says you can't be racist to white people

 

[Ambitiousmould]

Thuggery? You do know the Bill is a program, and not real life? Crime has been falling for years.

I never watched the Bill, is it even still on? But, although crime is falling, it's hard to feel good about crime rates when you see people (usually around my age or a couple of years younger) walking around with apparently nothing to do but smash bus shelter windows and terrify old people. It's especially hard to see the country as not thuggish when in my town, where the local hospice is robbed on a roughly weekly basis, the old artificial ice rink (read plastic floor and shampoo) was recently a target of arson, people get stabbed week in, week out basically every Friday night and (following story not for those who are easily upset):

A kid was covered in tanning oil and set alight and burned to death on his 18th birthday for being gay and autistic. And you though Alabama was bad.

Plus one drug supplier (growing weed in his loft) and one extremely high-end drug dealer were arrested on my street. And by high end, we're talking a new, rather expensive car every week and big, tasteless cast-iron eagle statues on the gate posts.

I will agree with your other points though. Especially about England/UK not being the only dickheads in the world. But we are still pretty enormous dickheads. Just because others are too doesn't make what we did any better.

 

[Breakdown]

Now I know the movie is incredibly black and white, but I wouldn't call it "Anglophobic." Would you?

Not really. He was Scottish, they were British. You know what the British Empire did to them and the Irish? Quite alot. My father is Irish and I am half-so (also Italian). You know what I really get tired of my dad talking about? Well, lots of things. Good god! Republicans, Muslims, Protestants, AND the English. He tends to go on at length. However, as much as I would prefer that he didn't fill the void with his bellowing, he still had relevant points. The old British Empire caused quite a stir, not necessarily in a good way. Even if everything dad said was a half-truth, it's more than enough to be deplorable. William Wallace wasn't crazy. People were legitimately out to get him and make his life misrerable and then kill him. The Scottish and Irish aren't blowing smoke out of their kilts about all that.

William Wallace skinned somebody to make leather for his swordgrip, and raped and slaughtered his way through Northern England. He does seem like kind of a bad type of person.

 

[funnydude6556]

Well there's no way of making a film about William Wallace without coming off a little anglophobic, we were the bad guys. Even when you consider that William was a nobleman to begin with we English were attacking Scottish rebels for trying to win back their freedom. The only problem is that it's years later and Scottish and Irish people still talk about us English like we're the devil, there comes a point where you've got to let things go.

 

[TwiZtah]

Anglophobia isn't a great way of putting it, but all the English in that film were even rapists thugs, an evil villain who liked sending thugs to rape people, and his stereotypical effeminate gay son.

Sorta very clear anti-English vibe from that.

On the other hand, that was pretty much England during the time, and for a very long time before and after that.

 

[Dwarfman]

We probably tried with the Welsh too, but I'm not certain.

Actually yes you did. Well before the events depicted in Braveheart Edward I conquered Wales.

Incidently there used to be a law that stated in certain parts of England it was legal to shoot a Welshman with a bow and arrow but only at night.

 

[Dwarfman]

The only problem is that it's years later and Scottish and Irish people still talk about us English like we're the devil, there comes a point where you've got to let things go.

I'm pretty sure that Grudge Keeping is a national sport in both lands.

 

[funnydude6556]

The only problem is that it's years later and Scottish and Irish people still talk about us English like we're the devil, there comes a point where you've got to let things go.

I'm pretty sure that Grudge Keeping is a national sport in both lands.

I want to be angry but you've got a point there. Like how we keep reminding Germany about WW1 and WW2.

 

[mrdeclandeadly]

The only problem is that it's years later and Scottish and Irish people still talk about us English like we're the devil, there comes a point where you've got to let things go.

I'm pretty sure that Grudge Keeping is a national sport in both lands.

You just made an enemy for life.

 

[Dwarfman]

The only problem is that it's years later and Scottish and Irish people still talk about us English like we're the devil, there comes a point where you've got to let things go.

I'm pretty sure that Grudge Keeping is a national sport in both lands.

I want to be angry but you've got a point there. Like how we keep reminding Germany about WW1 and WW2.

Don't be too angry. You gotta guy who calls himself Dwarfman talking about others and their grudges. I'd be a hypocrite if I said I never made any, especially when my Avatar associates with a mythical race notorious for them!

And by no means was my comment meant as an insult towards Scots and Irish. It is simply an observation I have made from my associations with several for the past 18 years or so.

 

[FalloutJack]

William Wallace skinned somebody to make leather for his swordgrip, and raped and slaughtered his way through Northern England. He does seem like kind of a bad type of person.

I didn't say he was a kind and generous fellow. I said he had good reason to hate the English, as opposed to an irrational fear or hatred of Anglo-saxons. By some measure, he was still a vicious man, overall.

 

[funnydude6556]

William Wallace skinned somebody to make leather for his swordgrip, and raped and slaughtered his way through Northern England. He does seem like kind of a bad type of person.

I didn't say he was a kind and generous fellow. I said he had good reason to hate the English, as opposed to an irrational fear or hatred of Anglo-saxons. By some measure, he was still a vicious man, overall.

What? Nah I'm fine and actually I'm English and as countries go we do a good job of holding grudges that and waiting in lines while complaining how Non-English people don't know how lines work. Seriously, we tired to have Tony Blair made the president of the EU and we still go on about how it was the German prime minister who won and how it was fixed and how it means the rest of Europe hates us whilst missing the irony that it's this attitude that turns most of Europe against England.