But Yahtzee didn't ask "Am I the only one?"kris40k said:
He asked if the games are the problem, or if he is.
Are Games Losing My Interest, or Is it Just Me?
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
He asked if the games are the problem, or if he is.
You've mentioned that you like the occasional board game, like Arkham Horror. The folks at ShutUpandSitDown.com host a pretty excellent board game review site and have 30 something podcasts at the moment. They're British, They're funny, and its a great way to find out about board games. I'll often have one playing in the background while grinding out a couple of hours of Binding of Issac.
If it makes you feel any better Yahtzee, I've been finding myself doing the same a lot this past year. My best guess is that a lot of games are consciously designed to be more suited for low-intensity background-noise sort of experience, exactly the same way a lot of these Youtube videos appear to be.
It's less to do with you or me growing up, and more to do with a lot of games (and entertainment in general, if you think about it) released these days being repetitive and simplistic, building up gratification through the force of slow grinding rather than delivering a short and punchy experience. If a lot of games today serve as nothing more than "Youtube fodder" for the PewDiePies of the world to scream at, a lot of other games serve as "Youtube watching fodder" for their audience to do something while listening to their screams.
It's less to do with you or me growing up, and more to do with a lot of games (and entertainment in general, if you think about it) released these days being repetitive and simplistic, building up gratification through the force of slow grinding rather than delivering a short and punchy experience. If a lot of games today serve as nothing more than "Youtube fodder" for the PewDiePies of the world to scream at, a lot of other games serve as "Youtube watching fodder" for their audience to do something while listening to their screams.
I've been gaming for probably a similar amount of time as Yahtzee (very much a guesstimation, I'm 34 and played my whole life), and I've never really felt so zoned out or distanced from a game I needed music with it. Then again, I'm not a reviewer/critic, and I'm also very one-track minded and lousy at multitasking, and I tend to challenge myself as much as possible in games (either maxing out mechanics, or playing at a difficulty I won't find too breezy), so there's a lot running through my mind most times.
But recently, I've found I also appreciate "wind-down" games, to play after a long day at work and sitting in traffic. And it's actually more driving - Euro Truck Simulator. I have lots of playlists and podcasts to listen to with that. In fact, the game itself has a built-in internet streaming radio that you can also plug in some of your favorite channels.
Also somewhat related, I do like to keep the pace up and my mind occupied in games. I've regularly modded weight restrictions and travel times in large, open-world RPG's to circumvent hindrances to keeping things going. However I'd replay a boss battle for hours if I had to. Which is why I had to try exceptionally hard to stick with Dark Souls, because there's a lot of extra traversing and dying if you aren't patient, which I am not. I also hate getting stuck, though I always give it my best before referring to a guide or something, which usually makes me feel like a dolt afterwards, but I've got bills to pay, work to do and need my sleep, dammit!
Back on track: As a critic, I can imagine it's hard to feel like you're not giving a game it's fair due if you haven't given you 100% undivided. But come on, that in itself is simply just what a review should do - anyone reading it knows it's an opinion, and if that opinion is that the game makes you zone out, so be it. If you still *enjoy* the game, despite not having all your gears cranking, well that's just another plus worth a mention rather than a con in my book.
But recently, I've found I also appreciate "wind-down" games, to play after a long day at work and sitting in traffic. And it's actually more driving - Euro Truck Simulator. I have lots of playlists and podcasts to listen to with that. In fact, the game itself has a built-in internet streaming radio that you can also plug in some of your favorite channels.
Also somewhat related, I do like to keep the pace up and my mind occupied in games. I've regularly modded weight restrictions and travel times in large, open-world RPG's to circumvent hindrances to keeping things going. However I'd replay a boss battle for hours if I had to. Which is why I had to try exceptionally hard to stick with Dark Souls, because there's a lot of extra traversing and dying if you aren't patient, which I am not. I also hate getting stuck, though I always give it my best before referring to a guide or something, which usually makes me feel like a dolt afterwards, but I've got bills to pay, work to do and need my sleep, dammit!
Back on track: As a critic, I can imagine it's hard to feel like you're not giving a game it's fair due if you haven't given you 100% undivided. But come on, that in itself is simply just what a review should do - anyone reading it knows it's an opinion, and if that opinion is that the game makes you zone out, so be it. If you still *enjoy* the game, despite not having all your gears cranking, well that's just another plus worth a mention rather than a con in my book.
I'm twenty-four and I love games as much as if not more than I ever have. But I like to listen to music, or a podcast, or a YouTube video when playing games pretty often as well. It is great with games where the sound isn't too important, like Diablo III the Total War games. I do it sometimes with Fallout 4 and other dialogue heavy games but I usually end up turning the external sound off after a bit. I don't think this has anything to do with the games themselves being flawed. I love the games I just listed. If anything it's a strike against the OTHER media. The YouTube videos simply don't hold my interest enough to be my sole focus, and a podcast isn't even meant too. Games are a great way of letting me enjoy those other things without getting bored. 
I do this a lot now, too, but I think it's a habit I subconsciously developed. I "watch" things like The Daily Show and crappy B Horror movies by listening to them in the background, and I always pull up some game to play while I'm doing that. It's usually something mindless like Minecraft or The Sims 4. And lately it's become the reverse with other games, like Fallout 4. Even though sound is helpful in-game, I still turn off the music and play something else in the background.
I don't think it's necessarily a strike for/against whatever game or movie I'm interested in. I recently watched Mad Max: Fury Road and found myself fidgeting because I wasn't doing anything else while watching it. I enjoyed the hell out of it, I'm just so used to multitasking now. I'm sure it's a habit I need to break so I can relax more.
I don't think it's necessarily a strike for/against whatever game or movie I'm interested in. I recently watched Mad Max: Fury Road and found myself fidgeting because I wasn't doing anything else while watching it. I enjoyed the hell out of it, I'm just so used to multitasking now. I'm sure it's a habit I need to break so I can relax more.
Yahtzee shoumd worry about his bad habits only if he does the same while watching a movie he likes.
If he begins to texting or surfing, then, yes, he has an attention issue.
In games? bah.
It's like walking: you don't need your full attention full time. Your first walks outdoor are certainly enjoyable, but after a while, it feels like a waste of time. Until you add some podcasts in your ears. Then you acquire fresh air AND new knowledge about stuff.
If games bore you, use that boring time to listen to audiobooks or science-themed videos.
I don't think it's a bore-meter. It means your brain is ready to get more.
If he begins to texting or surfing, then, yes, he has an attention issue.
In games? bah.
It's like walking: you don't need your full attention full time. Your first walks outdoor are certainly enjoyable, but after a while, it feels like a waste of time. Until you add some podcasts in your ears. Then you acquire fresh air AND new knowledge about stuff.
If games bore you, use that boring time to listen to audiobooks or science-themed videos.
I don't think it's a bore-meter. It means your brain is ready to get more.
I think that may be the case. It sounds like it could cloud your judgment as a reviewer, but you shouldn't beat yourself up over it. I can't speak for everyone else, but I watch your reviews because they're super entertaining, not because I'm looking to make informed purchases off of them.
I've always had something else going on while gaming (I've been gaming at home since the late eighties). I usually turn the game music off after a few listens as it gets tedious hearing the same handful of tunes over and over again. At the least, I play quiet music in the background; at the most, I turn all of the game sound off and play YouTube vids, podcasts etc. or just crank up the music. But, I've been bored by games since I quit WoW over two years ago so I've not played much at all since then. Tried quite a few but nothing grabs me any more. Might get back into WoW when they release Legion as that looks like it might be good. I dunno, maybe I'm too old and jaded?!
I too find myself engaging other entertainment during my gameplay time - although I specifically and purposefully limit this tendency and have from nearly the first impulse to "multi-task" my entertainment.
For example - I allow myself to freely multi-task (play a second game on my phone, watch my kindle/you-tube/tv, talk on the phone, what have you) while playing certain specific games only; these include MMOs, turn-based tactics games, and any game that is a mindless clicker of some sort (match 3 games as an example, although much of the content of Kongregate might be considered to qualify).
I do not allow myself to multi-task during games with any level of story or dialog that I should be paying attention to - even if I have played them before. If I start pausing the game to wander off to my phone or get the urge to go watch a show or podcast I turn the game off and go do that after a few failed attempts to resist.
This is just my self-discipline that I do feel I need otherwise I am just watering down my own game experiences with no one to blame but my own dwindling attention span - and no, it is not usually the game's fault, it is just the habit I've formed of being able to enjoy 2-4 stimuli at once and my mind not wanting to take a dial back to actually focus and enjoy one at a time.
Edit:
I do not, of course, however, play video games as part of my employment by which I earn my living. I am certain that the hours of engagement of games that do not please or stimulate your mind that you must endure for the sake of your profession have no doubt caused you to form a habit of alleviating that "bored mind" time that has probably bled into your for fun game time simply because it is a habit. Good news: habits can be broken and altered. Some conscious effort on your part to consider what you are doing and why is probably all that's needed to remedy the situation.
For example - I allow myself to freely multi-task (play a second game on my phone, watch my kindle/you-tube/tv, talk on the phone, what have you) while playing certain specific games only; these include MMOs, turn-based tactics games, and any game that is a mindless clicker of some sort (match 3 games as an example, although much of the content of Kongregate might be considered to qualify).
I do not allow myself to multi-task during games with any level of story or dialog that I should be paying attention to - even if I have played them before. If I start pausing the game to wander off to my phone or get the urge to go watch a show or podcast I turn the game off and go do that after a few failed attempts to resist.
This is just my self-discipline that I do feel I need otherwise I am just watering down my own game experiences with no one to blame but my own dwindling attention span - and no, it is not usually the game's fault, it is just the habit I've formed of being able to enjoy 2-4 stimuli at once and my mind not wanting to take a dial back to actually focus and enjoy one at a time.
Edit:
I do not, of course, however, play video games as part of my employment by which I earn my living. I am certain that the hours of engagement of games that do not please or stimulate your mind that you must endure for the sake of your profession have no doubt caused you to form a habit of alleviating that "bored mind" time that has probably bled into your for fun game time simply because it is a habit. Good news: habits can be broken and altered. Some conscious effort on your part to consider what you are doing and why is probably all that's needed to remedy the situation.
I do the same thing; at times I will play a streamers video like Total Biscuit, Dastastic, Arumba, etc. and other times music. I do this with games that are on ?maintenance?. Example is doing daily quests in some online game like Marvel Heroes, HotS and others. Really the games are not that engaging but something we do on a treadmill the devs have set up to keep us coming back and keeping their user base going.
Other games that I consider more interesting and that is what I focus on, no music or video just the game and what it is trying to say. It could be the story, the atmosphere, game play, any of those items and that is the focus. For examples like this, I most certainly do not want any distractions that would take away from my enjoyment of the game in front of me. : )
Thoughts:
Interesting points that Yahtzee has made, I do feel this topic has some depth to it. I feel that it is the game industry, it is society, it is technology and it is us.
The gaming industry has created for the most part a vicious loop. Games are to be quickly played and as a good consumer be immediately ready to spend more for the next few hours of gaming distraction. Their goal is that games are not made for being fun they are completely profit focused. Monetization platforms, cash registers with blinking lights and noise.
Thankfully there are some developers that still try to make games that entertain, engage and can even offer long term enjoyment. Unfortunately like everything else, the turn and burn is far more profitable than making a good quality game.
So the first part, the games these groups produce are meant to be consumed vs enjoyed so that leaves the meh feeling in full force when playing one of their games.
Society. We are flooded now with entertainment in many forms all pushing for our attention. Anything with a screen and or speakers and the push is there. Hey, hey look at this so exciting! So we gobble down what appeals to us first.
Once our fast food hunger kicks back in we are looking for the next stimulation. It is not all bad, in one way the cafeteria plan for entertainment is great, some video, some commentary, some music, all of it in handy portions ready for the grabbing.
Technology. Wow oh wow has it changed. We now have affordable computers, tablets and now powerful phones. Next add broadband and on demand streaming of data, tons of content is readily available and can be delivered in a short amount of time. It is amazing how much data we move now and it is going to get even bigger. It becomes pretty clear how dependent we are on that wire going into our homes and when it stops working, uh oh. So in response for example, I ended up configuring a media center with Offline data ? a Kodi box with lots of videos and music on it, just in case.
Now the last part, - Us. Our expectations, when did they change? Was it fast food? Was it Fedex and UPS with next day delivery? Was it Amazon with one click ordering? Maybe just simply computers having sped up everything in our world and with immediate response we expect immediate results in everything else we do.
Reading older cyberpunk novels it is interesting to see ideas that seemed twenty years ago far off and surprise, we are doing it right now except it is 2016 and not 2050. VR is taking another try and maybe it will stick this time or maybe Augmented Reality glasses with be the hotness seeing how people are glued to their phones even when walking.
At least with the glasses they are ?mostly? looking ahead but are they paying any more attention to what is in front of them? Will divided attention span actually work and how healthy or unhealthy will it turn out to be?
They say we are supposed to be in Post Information Age but I am not so sure of that, I feel like the real information age is only just getting started.
As Flynn said ?Greetings, programs!?
Other games that I consider more interesting and that is what I focus on, no music or video just the game and what it is trying to say. It could be the story, the atmosphere, game play, any of those items and that is the focus. For examples like this, I most certainly do not want any distractions that would take away from my enjoyment of the game in front of me. : )
Thoughts:
Interesting points that Yahtzee has made, I do feel this topic has some depth to it. I feel that it is the game industry, it is society, it is technology and it is us.
The gaming industry has created for the most part a vicious loop. Games are to be quickly played and as a good consumer be immediately ready to spend more for the next few hours of gaming distraction. Their goal is that games are not made for being fun they are completely profit focused. Monetization platforms, cash registers with blinking lights and noise.
Thankfully there are some developers that still try to make games that entertain, engage and can even offer long term enjoyment. Unfortunately like everything else, the turn and burn is far more profitable than making a good quality game.
So the first part, the games these groups produce are meant to be consumed vs enjoyed so that leaves the meh feeling in full force when playing one of their games.
Society. We are flooded now with entertainment in many forms all pushing for our attention. Anything with a screen and or speakers and the push is there. Hey, hey look at this so exciting! So we gobble down what appeals to us first.
Once our fast food hunger kicks back in we are looking for the next stimulation. It is not all bad, in one way the cafeteria plan for entertainment is great, some video, some commentary, some music, all of it in handy portions ready for the grabbing.
Technology. Wow oh wow has it changed. We now have affordable computers, tablets and now powerful phones. Next add broadband and on demand streaming of data, tons of content is readily available and can be delivered in a short amount of time. It is amazing how much data we move now and it is going to get even bigger. It becomes pretty clear how dependent we are on that wire going into our homes and when it stops working, uh oh. So in response for example, I ended up configuring a media center with Offline data ? a Kodi box with lots of videos and music on it, just in case.
Now the last part, - Us. Our expectations, when did they change? Was it fast food? Was it Fedex and UPS with next day delivery? Was it Amazon with one click ordering? Maybe just simply computers having sped up everything in our world and with immediate response we expect immediate results in everything else we do.
Reading older cyberpunk novels it is interesting to see ideas that seemed twenty years ago far off and surprise, we are doing it right now except it is 2016 and not 2050. VR is taking another try and maybe it will stick this time or maybe Augmented Reality glasses with be the hotness seeing how people are glued to their phones even when walking.
At least with the glasses they are ?mostly? looking ahead but are they paying any more attention to what is in front of them? Will divided attention span actually work and how healthy or unhealthy will it turn out to be?
They say we are supposed to be in Post Information Age but I am not so sure of that, I feel like the real information age is only just getting started.
As Flynn said ?Greetings, programs!?
I am a huge soundtrack guy, and I frequently put one of my favorite soundtracks on youtube in the background while I play. Don't do this for Elder Scrolls though, reason being is there is no text with the dialogue so I have to be able to hear what is being said. I do something interesting. I will sometimes try to match the music/soundtrack with the game. for example, Elysium soundtrack with X-com: UFO Defense, or Pacific Rim Soundtrack with X-Com: Terror From the Deep. A couple of times on Diablo 3 when fighting Malthael, I put on Don't Fear The Reaper by Blue Oyster Cult. in torchlight I added a mod that adds a "summon godzilla" spell, and so I will play "Godzilla" by BOC while playing that.
I often find myself listening to music/podcasts/audio-dramas after I've finished a game, and no longer feel it the need to commit all my focus. Once the Context (ie: story atmosphere) has been experienced to satisfaction, that just leaves Challenge and Catharsis (which has been lowered by the time the game has finished and I've become skilled at it). And due to the mechanical nature of games, those aspects can be enjoyed while engaging with an audio medium. I can do it because I still feel I'm enjoying the game mechanically. (It's different when say, I'm watching TV, but also browsing forums, as I always feel I missing parts by not giving the show/film my full attention.)
Only hitting that wall where dividing your attention feels necessary/appropriate varies from who you are and what you're playing. Naturally game reviewers will probably hit it sooner if the game is an obligation, and not a desire. I don't think there is really is a solid answer to this question in a broader philosophical sense. Sure, if the person isn't giving a game their full attention, that will colour their experience and in turn, their opinion on the game.
But bottom line, a review is just the critic's opinion, based on their own unique experience with it. And if they don't approach that honestly, ie: being so bored they have to augment the experience with external stimulation, then it's not an honest review. So, generally I'd say it's perfectly fine thing to do.
Only hitting that wall where dividing your attention feels necessary/appropriate varies from who you are and what you're playing. Naturally game reviewers will probably hit it sooner if the game is an obligation, and not a desire. I don't think there is really is a solid answer to this question in a broader philosophical sense. Sure, if the person isn't giving a game their full attention, that will colour their experience and in turn, their opinion on the game.
But bottom line, a review is just the critic's opinion, based on their own unique experience with it. And if they don't approach that honestly, ie: being so bored they have to augment the experience with external stimulation, then it's not an honest review. So, generally I'd say it's perfectly fine thing to do.
Actually, if you listen to his Youtube series, he talks often of listening to podcasts while playing Dark Souls.wax said:
I can't speak specifically to any of the games mentioned since I haven't played them, but in my experience, when I find myself doing this, it's because the game isn't engaging me on an auditory level. Sometimes that's because the game just has no audio (as when I'm playing roguelikes,) but frequently it's because modern games are increasingly just dull and boring to listen to; especially in triple-A titles, it seems like the soundtracks are composed primarily of Stock Generic Action-Movie Music and Lightly Industrial Ambient Blah with little or nothing in the way of catchy hooks or melodies, and the sound design is mostly generic as hell. Compare that to, say, Mega Man 2, which I never play with the sound off because half the fun is in the insanely catchy music, or Quake, where the combination of brooding, quality industrial-ambient music and distinctive sound design contributes at least as much to the overall character as the game's visuals.
This is an amazing piece and I'm in the exact same boat, not paying attention because I'm listening to Fatman on Batman while playing Fallout 4, and I don't remember anything from either.
This is basically how I get through MMO's these days. After around eight years straight of WoW with some foothold in Guild Wars (both of them), Champions Online, like three others, and currently FFXIV... I just can't stand to bother questing anymore unless it's some single player open world like an Elder Scrolls or Fallout. I actually don't like FFXIV very much and I -have- to have some kind of podcast playing, I'm only there because all my online friends are. (Literally like, ten of them retired from WoW and came to FFXIV).
Started when I was 17 or 18 years old, I'm now 27 and I can barely play MMO's anymore.
Started when I was 17 or 18 years old, I'm now 27 and I can barely play MMO's anymore.
"The brain is a reducing valve. In ordinary perception, the senses send an overwhelming flood of information to the brain, which the brain then filters down to a trickle it can manage for the purpose of survival in a highly competitive world. Man has become so rational, so utilitarian, that the trickle becomes most pale and thin. It is efficient, for mere survival, but it screens out the most wondrous part of man's potential experience without his even knowing it. We're shut off from our own world.?darkalter2000 said:
-Aldous Huxley