I find myself doing this only in those games like CK2, Distant Worlds, Banished, or even Elite Dangerous. Games that I play to relax and that allow me to listen to something else. Elite Dangerous with Night Vale Podcast is a win/win. But with the other games, what I've noticed is that if the game is too dull, I just space out and play in automatic. Start thinking about work, about something I was writing, something I want to do, etc.
Are Games Losing My Interest, or Is it Just Me?
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
I find that I've been doing this as well. But it's seriously hard to solely play Stardew Valley.
I tried to keep podcasts on for Mechwarrior Online but they got VOIP now and it does get used every now and then so I stopped.
Heck, I've been watching anime windowed, surfing the net or playing games on my phone as well. It could be age, maybe it's just overexposure to the medium. Perhaps I should move out into the mountains and subsist on nothing but wild ferns and rainwater. Might gain a new found appreciation for entertainment then.
I tried to keep podcasts on for Mechwarrior Online but they got VOIP now and it does get used every now and then so I stopped.
Heck, I've been watching anime windowed, surfing the net or playing games on my phone as well. It could be age, maybe it's just overexposure to the medium. Perhaps I should move out into the mountains and subsist on nothing but wild ferns and rainwater. Might gain a new found appreciation for entertainment then.
Gaming saturation is the side effect of successful reviewing. While at times I am envious of the career that lets you stay at home and indulge in the best hobby ever all day, the voice in the back of my brain that is logical tells me that it would be no fun making gaming work for the better part of a decade. I'll take my unfulfilling labor jobs if I'm allowed to go home and make five hours melt away in bliss.
This is part of why I am an audio maniac in video games, a good music track on the game can push me through hell and make a good game better. I think you need to enjoy more games that drive you home with a beat Yahtzee.
I do this, but only in rare circumstances. What I'm getting out of Yahtzee's article is that he's played so many games (most of which he doesn't enjoy) with such regularity that simply playing a video game doesn't feel like a worthy enough activity to completely carve out time and attention for.
When that happens to me, I usually spend a day or 2 playing nothing, not even on the phone/tablet, and focus on the other hobbies I have; failing that I'll spend a day riding into the city and walking around stopping in weird shops or having a good coffee and trying to meet strange people. Anything that gets rid of the mindset that video games are a rut, no longer escapist entertainment because you've lost anything of substance to escape from in the first place. I imagine for Yahtzee, this being his job and all, it might be a difficult proposition. I don't want to say that the job is burning him out on his love; he's still great at what he does but he's been kicking ass steadily for YEARS.
Any game I play, I want to give it the absolute best chance it deserves. Darkened room, good headphones, a beer or two, and the kids asleep so that I know I can try to fuckin' live it. I have podcasts/youtubers/P&T Bullshit/TED Talks and so on while I work, so I'm rather burned out on those if I'm doing something actually entertaining. I only even consider it if I know I'm going to be grinding (rats in Dark Souls, Chalice Dungeons in Bloodborne, 759th run of Isaac/Nuclear Throne) and if the game is too boring for that then it's not worth my damned time and I'm drowning in games. I worry for Yahtzee if he feels that "other media" urge when starting games that he actually has a genuine interest in.
When that happens to me, I usually spend a day or 2 playing nothing, not even on the phone/tablet, and focus on the other hobbies I have; failing that I'll spend a day riding into the city and walking around stopping in weird shops or having a good coffee and trying to meet strange people. Anything that gets rid of the mindset that video games are a rut, no longer escapist entertainment because you've lost anything of substance to escape from in the first place. I imagine for Yahtzee, this being his job and all, it might be a difficult proposition. I don't want to say that the job is burning him out on his love; he's still great at what he does but he's been kicking ass steadily for YEARS.
Any game I play, I want to give it the absolute best chance it deserves. Darkened room, good headphones, a beer or two, and the kids asleep so that I know I can try to fuckin' live it. I have podcasts/youtubers/P&T Bullshit/TED Talks and so on while I work, so I'm rather burned out on those if I'm doing something actually entertaining. I only even consider it if I know I'm going to be grinding (rats in Dark Souls, Chalice Dungeons in Bloodborne, 759th run of Isaac/Nuclear Throne) and if the game is too boring for that then it's not worth my damned time and I'm drowning in games. I worry for Yahtzee if he feels that "other media" urge when starting games that he actually has a genuine interest in.
I've been feeling the same way of late. Then I started playing through older titles that I missed the first time around, and shorter tighter indie games and suddenly I felt the same way I did playing games up until now. Undivided attention, enthralled in the experience.
I don't think you've been allowed to get away with becoming bloated, lazy and shitty. Rather, the industry has.
I don't think you've been allowed to get away with becoming bloated, lazy and shitty. Rather, the industry has.
Honestly whilst age might have something to do with it, I think this can be at least 60% explained by psychology 101:
It's pretty much pavalovian conditioning. If you get into the habit of playing games whilst doing something else like listening to a podcast, you're going to start associating the two activities till you reach a point where you feel it's weird just to do the activity by itself, as doing one will trigger the memory of the other thing you associate with it.
So whilst you might have started listening to podcasts or w/e as a way to cope with boring games, eventually yahtzee came to associate gaming with listening to podcasts full stop, the quality of the game itself doesn't really matter anymore.
Take all this with a grain of salt as always.
It's pretty much pavalovian conditioning. If you get into the habit of playing games whilst doing something else like listening to a podcast, you're going to start associating the two activities till you reach a point where you feel it's weird just to do the activity by itself, as doing one will trigger the memory of the other thing you associate with it.
So whilst you might have started listening to podcasts or w/e as a way to cope with boring games, eventually yahtzee came to associate gaming with listening to podcasts full stop, the quality of the game itself doesn't really matter anymore.
Take all this with a grain of salt as always.
Yep, I can agree with this.trunkage said:
Example. I'd have no problems browsing facebook, chatting with friends (textbased) or reading articles while "watching" Arrow or Flash. I love superhero stuff, but those shows are....excepting the hero-angle, generic dramas with mediocre to bad writing. I have only a passing interest and so the show doesnt demand my entire attention.
This would be absolutely out of the question when watching for example the new Game of Thrones episode, or Jessica Jones, or something like that. Then I am interested, excited and engaged. In fact, for some shows I can even be edgy about inviting friends to watch with me because it pisses me off when people talk or ask questions and break my immersion or enjoyment.
Same with games. Some are just to keep your brain from falling asleep, others are "real" entertainment.
So it depends on the game/movie/whatever.
Ironically one of my favorite background tracks for is Yahtzee's own drown out series. I Actually will listen to each episodes several times over the week as having heard it before makes it less distracting. Usually i find with some games once the accompanying audio ends i won't put on something new if i am immersed enough, this is exactly what happened when i played undertale, once my youtube video ended i didn't start a new one. This seems like a new trend but when i was a teenager 10 years ago i had two TV's in my room, one for games and one to put something else on.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/extra-punctuation/16979-Are-Games-Losing-My-Interest-or-Is-it-Just-Me
I think it's a problem that I've gone through as well. The past 5-10 years has been an era of stimulation and acceleration. We want to consume more, and more and more. There's more inexpensive entertainment options than ever with Steam and monthly streaming services. Backlogues are bigger than ever and you're more behind than ever. Why not multitask while gaming too?
Paradox of Choice. The more choices we have, the more we feel like we're missing out on other things. You just bought Twilight Princess HD? You could have bought 4 virtual console games instead. You're playing a game on your backlogue? Why not any of the other 50 games on your backlogue.
When I was a kid, I would save up my allowance for several weeks just to buy one game. But when I bought it, I played the hell out of it and appreciated every minute of it. That, and Christmas meant that I only played 5 or 6 games each year. Then, I discovered ebay and I started buying a bargain bin game every 2 weeks. Now I have at least 30 purchased Steam-sale games I haven't touched, plus 100 ROM's I intended to play but have never gotten around to.
Games used to be fun. Now they've become a chore to keep up with, along with other time presses in life. It has helped me to accept a few things. First, I'm never going to complete every great game there is out there. Second, a lot of games out there are just my type, no matter how critically acclaimed they are.
I think it's a problem that I've gone through as well. The past 5-10 years has been an era of stimulation and acceleration. We want to consume more, and more and more. There's more inexpensive entertainment options than ever with Steam and monthly streaming services. Backlogues are bigger than ever and you're more behind than ever. Why not multitask while gaming too?
Paradox of Choice. The more choices we have, the more we feel like we're missing out on other things. You just bought Twilight Princess HD? You could have bought 4 virtual console games instead. You're playing a game on your backlogue? Why not any of the other 50 games on your backlogue.
When I was a kid, I would save up my allowance for several weeks just to buy one game. But when I bought it, I played the hell out of it and appreciated every minute of it. That, and Christmas meant that I only played 5 or 6 games each year. Then, I discovered ebay and I started buying a bargain bin game every 2 weeks. Now I have at least 30 purchased Steam-sale games I haven't touched, plus 100 ROM's I intended to play but have never gotten around to.
Games used to be fun. Now they've become a chore to keep up with, along with other time presses in life. It has helped me to accept a few things. First, I'm never going to complete every great game there is out there. Second, a lot of games out there are just my type, no matter how critically acclaimed they are.
I still only buy 5 or 6 games each year, maybe 8 in a really, really good year. And not because I can't afford, I just never have that many new games per year that I want to spend my time on. And as a result I replay the shit out of my favourite titles. I don't remember ever having a backlog of games that I bought but hadn't yet played.
I suffer from this problem as well. I get games in bundles where they are really really cheap and end up never playing them. There are also a lot of games that I get that I just don't like and never touch after an hour or two. I found that my time has become so limited for everything, that if I can't watch TV or a movie AND play the game...then I wont touch it. Few exceptions however get made for a game that is just amazing like The Witcher 3. But shit, even Dark souls games I usually play with at least a podcast on.
I almost never listen to anything else when I play the game. I believe that games are to be enjoyed as it is and deserving of my full attention - therefore distractions are equivalent of sacrilege.
Only exception that has been games with soundtrack so repetitive and somewhat bad that I felt I couldn't continue without going mad. I value my sanity you know.
Only exception that has been games with soundtrack so repetitive and somewhat bad that I felt I couldn't continue without going mad. I value my sanity you know.
I feel like I have the most fun with a game when I do these things:
- Don't participate in discussions about the game
- Don't look up walkthroughs (or use written guides)
- Concentrate on one game at a time
In fact, that is how it used to be in the high point of gaming (for me), the 16 bit days. I beat every game I owned, even The Lost Levels because I couldn't afford new games all the time to distract me and there was no internet and I only bought one strategy guide (Breath of Fire) so all my other games were just me pushing through on my own.
For those RPG's, I used to pop in my headphones and crank up some Tesla or similar. With no voice acting, you needn't worry about missing anything.
- Don't participate in discussions about the game
- Don't look up walkthroughs (or use written guides)
- Concentrate on one game at a time
In fact, that is how it used to be in the high point of gaming (for me), the 16 bit days. I beat every game I owned, even The Lost Levels because I couldn't afford new games all the time to distract me and there was no internet and I only bought one strategy guide (Breath of Fire) so all my other games were just me pushing through on my own.
For those RPG's, I used to pop in my headphones and crank up some Tesla or similar. With no voice acting, you needn't worry about missing anything.
This is perhaps the worst possible time in gaming for veteran gamers.
Over saturated genres with more money dumped into marketing than story, and even more money dumped into graphics than gameplay / innovation.
Every AAA title to look forward to is a sequel, a reboot, another copy of a well established formulaic pile of trash.
Indie titles are a great alternative, yet that market too is clearly beginning to flock like a herd of indie developing sheep into whatever the latest indie game craze is.
Great new ideas are always launched early access meaning incomplete titles with a slow trickle of new content every 2 months.
It's almost like every week, instead of getting a great new game to play you're just waiting months for the next Far Cry 5, or GTA 6, Dark Souls 3, whatever garbage Bethesda puts out next.
Alternatively, wait 2 months for a smaller team to put out a tiny content patch.
Blood Bowl 2, for example one of my favourite games I discovered this year year has taken well over 6 months to release a single new team. Amazingly, they're still late.
Don't get me started on VR; it's just a bloody joke. The best thing they could be used for is augmented reality porn at best.
Over saturated genres with more money dumped into marketing than story, and even more money dumped into graphics than gameplay / innovation.
Every AAA title to look forward to is a sequel, a reboot, another copy of a well established formulaic pile of trash.
Indie titles are a great alternative, yet that market too is clearly beginning to flock like a herd of indie developing sheep into whatever the latest indie game craze is.
Great new ideas are always launched early access meaning incomplete titles with a slow trickle of new content every 2 months.
It's almost like every week, instead of getting a great new game to play you're just waiting months for the next Far Cry 5, or GTA 6, Dark Souls 3, whatever garbage Bethesda puts out next.
Alternatively, wait 2 months for a smaller team to put out a tiny content patch.
Blood Bowl 2, for example one of my favourite games I discovered this year year has taken well over 6 months to release a single new team. Amazingly, they're still late.
Don't get me started on VR; it's just a bloody joke. The best thing they could be used for is augmented reality porn at best.
Not all games are tailor-made for several hours of constant and unilateral focus. Big open-world titles tend to create that sense of disconnection after a while; the Process starts become obvious and it becomes harder to focus on the diegesis or the acting or whatever else it is that's expected to keep you hooked. Shadow of Mordor is a game I play with my own soundtrack, seeing as I've taken to minmaxing the shit out of Talion. That means ignoring the story and doing absolutely everything I can to earn Mirian and Power Points before so much as looking in Ratbag or Gollum's direction.
It requires focus, though - and that focus isn't guaranteed. When mine drops, I do exactly what Yahtzee's described and add another stimulus to the mix. When I just don't quit playing, that is. The SoulsBorne series is somewhere in the same ballpark - there's only so many deaths I can endure before my focus starts fading. Games that expect me to stagnate in a given section until I've mastered particularly tough enemies or puzzles don't really hold my interest.
On the flipside, I can really focus on a game when it hits the right kind of groove between narrative delivery and difficulty. The story has to move me at a decent pace, and the difficulty has to move against that desired pace by just a tiny smidge... That's the only real gripe I have with the SoulsBorne games, really. The story's so vague precisely because the pace is so slow and entirely dependent on your ability to soldier on.
In my case, there's a point where I have some idea as to why I'm doing what I'm doing and how I need to proceed, but the game says "Yeah, nope - you need to take down that pod of halberd-wielding undead monstrosities first. Y'know - the same one that's been killing you and your summoned Phantoms for the past four hours."
That just takes me right out. There's "git gud", and then there's "force yourself to keep going even though your sense of fun has withered away to nothing".
It requires focus, though - and that focus isn't guaranteed. When mine drops, I do exactly what Yahtzee's described and add another stimulus to the mix. When I just don't quit playing, that is. The SoulsBorne series is somewhere in the same ballpark - there's only so many deaths I can endure before my focus starts fading. Games that expect me to stagnate in a given section until I've mastered particularly tough enemies or puzzles don't really hold my interest.
On the flipside, I can really focus on a game when it hits the right kind of groove between narrative delivery and difficulty. The story has to move me at a decent pace, and the difficulty has to move against that desired pace by just a tiny smidge... That's the only real gripe I have with the SoulsBorne games, really. The story's so vague precisely because the pace is so slow and entirely dependent on your ability to soldier on.
In my case, there's a point where I have some idea as to why I'm doing what I'm doing and how I need to proceed, but the game says "Yeah, nope - you need to take down that pod of halberd-wielding undead monstrosities first. Y'know - the same one that's been killing you and your summoned Phantoms for the past four hours."
That just takes me right out. There's "git gud", and then there's "force yourself to keep going even though your sense of fun has withered away to nothing".
Yahtzee Croshaw said:
It sounds to me as less a matter of game quality, etc and more a matter of, well, job burn out.
You've been playing games and producing new a new Zero Punctuation video on a weekly basis for nine years straight. As such you probably have more gaming experience than dozens of Escapist gamers combined.
After playing hundreds--perhaps thousands--of games it must be extraordinarily difficult to encounter games that are even relatively novel. You could probably stalk through most FPS without a cup of coffee in the morning to wake you up.
Yahtzee: "Been there, done that, made the T-Shirts."
That's you.
Job burn out, my friend. Good old fashioned job burn out.
>.>
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Of course, I could be wrong.
This argument is too generic because it's asking if it's it's ok to judge a game if you allowed yourself to be distracted by something. It implies all games have the same purpose. Games are a medium like books, TV/Film, paintings, etc. They can be practical, light, deep, oppressive, inspiring. Can I judge a magazine article I'm reading if I read it while the TV is on? If I put on some epic beloved film for my partner to watch and she's constantly looking at her phone playing Angry Birds, and she say she "doesn't like it" can I get mad?
I'd say you can't judge anything too well if you're not giving it enough attention, but it depends on the piece of work. But then these kind of judgements are largely subjective, so if somebody can't get through a particle experience with some added distraction then it tells you as much about their tastes as the value of the content. Also, demanding attention may not be a good thing. Yahtzee turned distractions off for Far Cry Primal because audio awareness is an important game mechanic. It's not critical to The Division, or Rocket League. It doesn't mean Far Cry Primal is a more engaging or enjoyable game than Rocket League.
I'd say the biggest change I've seen in games, particulary reviews of games, is the shift away from worrying about production, i.e. basic mechanics, graphics, it's basic functionality and playability, and a massive focus on "the experience". This is because games can pretty much be anything they want now. We're not as restricted by processing speed, fidelity of image, possible game mechanics, etc. Now we focus on the art. How does it feel to play it, is it frustrating, thrilling, too tense, dull. Does it look beautiful, regardless of whether it's 8-bit or 1080p, but more importantly did the developers choices enhance or diminish the gaming experience?
I feel anyone else's subjective opinion, useful or not, should never be given more value than your own. Good example, while with a group of friends I mentioned Starship Troopers and what a great film it was. Another friend nearby overheard and said "No!! It's a terrible film!!? All macho bullshit and guns, bleurgh!" We debated back and forth for about 15 minutes over the fact that it's a parody of that kind of thing and I felt she'd missed the point. At this point she says "Well, I did stop watching after the first 15 minutes"..... So when hearing anyone's subjective opinion, keep in mind they may not experience things the way you have.
I'd say you can't judge anything too well if you're not giving it enough attention, but it depends on the piece of work. But then these kind of judgements are largely subjective, so if somebody can't get through a particle experience with some added distraction then it tells you as much about their tastes as the value of the content. Also, demanding attention may not be a good thing. Yahtzee turned distractions off for Far Cry Primal because audio awareness is an important game mechanic. It's not critical to The Division, or Rocket League. It doesn't mean Far Cry Primal is a more engaging or enjoyable game than Rocket League.
I'd say the biggest change I've seen in games, particulary reviews of games, is the shift away from worrying about production, i.e. basic mechanics, graphics, it's basic functionality and playability, and a massive focus on "the experience". This is because games can pretty much be anything they want now. We're not as restricted by processing speed, fidelity of image, possible game mechanics, etc. Now we focus on the art. How does it feel to play it, is it frustrating, thrilling, too tense, dull. Does it look beautiful, regardless of whether it's 8-bit or 1080p, but more importantly did the developers choices enhance or diminish the gaming experience?
I feel anyone else's subjective opinion, useful or not, should never be given more value than your own. Good example, while with a group of friends I mentioned Starship Troopers and what a great film it was. Another friend nearby overheard and said "No!! It's a terrible film!!? All macho bullshit and guns, bleurgh!" We debated back and forth for about 15 minutes over the fact that it's a parody of that kind of thing and I felt she'd missed the point. At this point she says "Well, I did stop watching after the first 15 minutes"..... So when hearing anyone's subjective opinion, keep in mind they may not experience things the way you have.