Are Valve even AWARE of how badly they're screwing up?

NuclearKangaroo

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TrevHead said:
They simply don't need to is the likely answer.

Valve is a good example why a monopoly is bad for gamers, this past 3 or so years they've become lazy and slow to fix problems with their store and releasing their own titles. If Valve had a direct competitor with a larger market share to keep them on their toes you can bet your arse we would be playing HL3 or atleast ep 3 or a spin off by now.

I wish console gamers fanboys would remember that when wishing for the death of their competitors

Hopefully when Valve release their new control pad and if Gabe decides to fight seriously for the living room we might see them promote or release some new games exclusive to PC/Steam.
can you blame valve when no other company have come foward to pose a reasonable challenge?

i mean GoG is good but not that good

Origin is OK

UPlay is freakin' terrible

if there is a steam monopoly, valve doesnt enforce it, they have gone on record saying they always tell devs to release their games on any platforms they like, and in fact, many steam games are avaliable for sale in numerous other platforms, like GoG, GMG, UPlay or directly from the developers

so why there arent many AAA devs selling their games on GoG as well as on Steam? because they are lazy as fuck, blame them for steam's monopoly, not valve, valve have done nothing but provide a good service
 

Daverson

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DNF didn't fail because it was so long in development or too highly anticipated (hell, we knew it was going to be crap before it came out). It failed because it spent a good decade thrown between different studios, each of which had wildly different ideas of what they wanted to do with it.

Now, if you wanted an example of something so heavily hyped that it failed under the weight of it's own expectations, I'd have gone with Daikatana. =p
 

Biran53

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Problem is that Valve has perfected a couple of their titles mechanically. How do you make a Portal 3? A Left 4 Dead 3? Sure, a few adjustments could be made, but hardly anything warrants a full sequel.

Half Life 3 will probably only exist for the sake of its narrative. Maybe.
 

Battenberg

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Vigormortis said:
Battenberg said:
Did I say that? Maybe re-read what I actually wrote paying extra attention to the words I chose this time.
In response to Arcane's post, "And then, worst of all, it'll reach the stage where no-one cares any more." you said, "I'm pretty sure that stage has been and gone for a lot of people."

Denoting that most people don't care about the game anymore.

Then, you followed it up with: "Besides there's no way HL3 could be good enough to justify this long a wait, maybe it's best of it doesn't happen."

Specifying that it won't live up to expectations.

Not entirely sure how I misinterpreted that. Perhaps you can clarify? If I have misinterpreted then I do sincerely apologize and retract the quotation and question.
Well aside from anything else I didn't say that the people who don't care are the same people who wouldn't feel a 10 year wait for the sequel would be justified. I also chose the word justified quite carefully, as opposed to talking about what people expect. When Drive Club was delayed people didn't EXPECT any more from it because of this delay. There was (and still is), however an increased need for the developers to produce something that JUSTIFIES or this extra wait. The same can be applied to HL3.


Aside from all these semantics I think your argument is flawed. Why can't someone experience both ambivalence and high expectations in relation to one event or object? Not necessarily at the same time but it could be viewed as an if-then-else statement. Currently HL3 doesn't exist and may never exist therefore you cannot have expectations of it in the same way that you cannot have expectations of, for example, aliens. All you can do is speculate about the possibilities of what could be. Should HL3 become a reality then you can expect something of it (or of those creating it if you want to get technical) which allows it succeed or fail in meeting those expectations.

"If Half Life 3 is released I will have exceptionally high expectations of it else I will not concern myself with the ongoing speculation of whether or not it will ever exist"


Of course saying all that I think in the case of a lot of the posts you're referring to people are simply failing to communicate that they're fed up with all the hype, media attention, and discussion that a non-existent game is getting and would rather talk about something else. In fact this is pretty much how I feel about the whole situation. I would like a new Half Life and I would be pleased to see it actually happen however after 10 years of saying the same things over and over and obsessing over what pointlessly small details might mean and a bunch of fakeout announcements/ leaks I don't have much interest in partaking in, or even seeing, any more baseless speculation on the subject. Case in point if this thread title had contained the words "Half Life 3" I likely wouldn't have bothered clicking on the link to read it (and you wouldn't have had to put up with my ramblings).
 

Vigormortis

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Battenberg said:
Well aside from anything else I didn't say that the people who don't care are the same people who wouldn't feel a 10 year wait for the sequel would be justified. I also chose the word justified quite carefully, as opposed to talking about what people expect. When Drive Club was delayed people didn't EXPECT any more from it because of this delay. There was (and still is), however an increased need for the developers to produce something that JUSTIFIES or this extra wait. The same can be applied to HL3.
I'm confused as to why Valve must "justify" a seven year wait time on the next installment.

We know next to nothing on what to expect out of the project. In fact, all we do know is that it exists and is in active development to some degree.

It's a media product. A sequel to one, in fact. It's existence, or rather it's development time, doesn't need any justification to anyone but those producing and funding it.

Consumers have the right to factor in that wait when judging the end product, but it's not really something that needs justifying.

Aside from all these semantics I think your argument is flawed. Why can't someone experience both ambivalence and high expectations in relation to one event or object? Not necessarily at the same time but it could be viewed as an if-then-else statement. Currently HL3 doesn't exist and may never exist therefore you cannot have expectations of it in the same way that you cannot have expectations of, for example, aliens. All you can do is speculate about the possibilities of what could be. Should HL3 become a reality then you can expect something of it (or of those creating it if you want to get technical) which allows it succeed or fail in meeting those expectations.
Except it isn't being stated as such.

People are qualifying it as being both anticipated and not anticipated, cared for and not cared for.

When one says, "No one cares about it anymore", while simultaneously saying, "It will never live up to expectations." they are creating state of contradiction. It isn't some 'if-then-else' scenario.

Speculation requires some level of care, some level of investment. If one truly didn't care about a thing, notably a media product, there'd be no reason to speculate on it. Even if one's only concern of a product is speculating on, say, how it will affect it's respective industry, that still implies some degree of investment.

"If Half Life 3 is released I will have exceptionally high expectations of it else I will not concern myself with the ongoing speculation of whether or not it will ever exist"

Of course saying all that I think in the case of a lot of the posts you're referring to people are simply failing to communicate that they're fed up with all the hype, media attention, and discussion that a non-existent game is getting and would rather talk about something else. In fact this is pretty much how I feel about the whole situation. I would like a new Half Life and I would be pleased to see it actually happen however after 10 years of saying the same things over and over and obsessing over what pointlessly small details might mean and a bunch of fakeout announcements/ leaks I don't have much interest in partaking in, or even seeing, any more baseless speculation on the subject. Case in point if this thread title had contained the words "Half Life 3" I likely wouldn't have bothered clicking on the link to read it (and you wouldn't have had to put up with my ramblings).
Fake outs? I'll grant most of the hype surrounding the game has been the result of the gaming media and the community, but the info leaks that have come out of Valve showing hints at Half-Life 3's development were not planned. They literally were unintentional leaks.

Look, I think you and I are actually far more in agreement than either of us realizations. While I too would love to see another entry in the series, I'm not waiting on bated breath for it's release; even though I know it is in development. This doesn't mean I don't care. On the contrary. It just means I'm not holding any specific expectations.

And that was the crux of my argument. That one can't say they don't care while stating they have expectations.

Oh, and by the way, as a fellow occasional rambler, rambling doesn't bother me in the least. So please, ramble on.

;)
 

Sight Unseen

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J Tyran said:
TheYellowCellPhone said:
No, they probably don't have that much interest left for Half-Life, and the community has gotten over it. Now that they have DoTA 2, Counterstrike, TF2, and the rising power of Steam, we've well crossed the point where we're much more anticipating another major update to DoTA or TF2 than a teaser about the next Half-Life installment.
Well I'm expecting there to be an Orange Box³ or something like that with the full roll out of the new Source Engine that has three games,

Team Fortress 3
Left For Dead 3
Half Life 3

Maybe one of those would be switched with Portal 3, I should add that I don't think it will happen until the full release of the Steam Box and Steam controller and will be a Steam OS exclusive as it will all be part of the marketing push for the boxes and the OS. They will have to pull something special out of the bag if they are going to get people on board with it, that combination of games is one of the few things that could get PC gamers switching to the OS in large numbers in a short amount of time.

Thats the only reason I can see them holding back those profitable franchises for so long (not just the next Half Life), a new engine and using it as a carrot for the steam box/OS rollout.
I'm pretty sure that they've already confirmed that they won't be making ANY games SteamOS exclusive
 

gorfias

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Arcane Azmadi said:
I disagree with those stating this would be Duke Nukem all over again, or that Valve is afraid to make HL3 because it can't live up to the hype and will only damage their reputation.

They had the guts to make Portal 2 after 3 hour long Portal became known as one of the best games of its generation.

They have the guts. Now if they'll only have the will.
 

Rozalia1

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NuclearKangaroo said:
can you blame valve when no other company have come foward to pose a reasonable challenge?

i mean GoG is good but not that good

Origin is OK

UPlay is freakin' terrible

if there is a steam monopoly, valve doesnt enforce it, they have gone on record saying they always tell devs to release their games on any platforms they like, and in fact, many steam games are avaliable for sale in numerous other platforms, like GoG, GMG, UPlay or directly from the developers

so why there arent many AAA devs selling their games on GoG as well as on Steam? because they are lazy as fuck, blame them for steam's monopoly, not valve, valve have done nothing but provide a good service
Please be very careful with such statements. Valve is a business buddy, not your friend.
They like any other do questionable things by customers, they are no angels. In business no one is such a thing.

If you don't break that illusion than when the cold slap of reality hits you, it'll hit you hard.

Captcha: be careful

My thoughts exactly.
 

ILikeEggs

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Rozalia1 said:
Please be very careful with such statements. Valve is a business buddy, not your friend.
They like any other do questionable things by customers, they are no angels. In business no one is such a thing.

If you don't break that illusion than when the cold slap of reality hits you, it'll hit you hard.

Captcha: be careful

My thoughts exactly.
I don't see anything in that post indicating NuclearKangaroo sees Valve as a friend. While I have, in the past been accustomed to seeing Valve as this big friendly corporation, I've adapted that view over the years to one that sees Valve as a company that still views profits the same way other companies do, but one that understands the benefits of goodwill when it can be afforded.
 

NuclearKangaroo

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Rozalia1 said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
can you blame valve when no other company have come foward to pose a reasonable challenge?

i mean GoG is good but not that good

Origin is OK

UPlay is freakin' terrible

if there is a steam monopoly, valve doesnt enforce it, they have gone on record saying they always tell devs to release their games on any platforms they like, and in fact, many steam games are avaliable for sale in numerous other platforms, like GoG, GMG, UPlay or directly from the developers

so why there arent many AAA devs selling their games on GoG as well as on Steam? because they are lazy as fuck, blame them for steam's monopoly, not valve, valve have done nothing but provide a good service
Please be very careful with such statements. Valve is a business buddy, not your friend.
They like any other do questionable things by customers, they are no angels. In business no one is such a thing.

If you don't break that illusion than when the cold slap of reality hits you, it'll hit you hard.

Captcha: be careful

My thoughts exactly.
im aware of that, but its the truth

valve offers the best service out of all digital distribution platforms, its also the devs fault there are no more AAA games on GoG
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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At the end of the day, no matter how "cool" Valve is compared to the suit and tie wearing bigwigs of other companies, they're still a corporation. Period, end of sentence. They're in this to make money (and games but yeah money is a big factor too), and they do have to pursue profit to stay alive. Thats how shit works, and they may trample a few customers along the way or let some folks down with their decisions. Well, damn... I've been saying this all along that just because they do some awesome sales for games and such it doesn't mean they're a goodwill orginization of sainthood that can be held up against the heathen EA or Activision... they're not much different just have better PR.
My personal opinion, I enjoy Valve games, enjoy Steam's accessibility, but I don't revere the company any more than I do any other corporation. They get my money when they earn it.
 

TrevHead

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NuclearKangaroo said:
can you blame valve when no other company have come foward to pose a reasonable challenge?

i mean GoG is good but not that good

Origin is OK

UPlay is freakin' terrible

if there is a steam monopoly, valve doesnt enforce it, they have gone on record saying they always tell devs to release their games on any platforms they like, and in fact, many steam games are avaliable for sale in numerous other platforms, like GoG, GMG, UPlay or directly from the developers

so why there arent many AAA devs selling their games on GoG as well as on Steam? because they are lazy as fuck, blame them for steam's monopoly, not valve, valve have done nothing but provide a good service
I mostly agree, I didn't mean to say that Valve provides a bad service for the most part, just that Valve / Steam would be much better if it didn't have such a large monopoly.
 

NuclearKangaroo

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TrevHead said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
can you blame valve when no other company have come foward to pose a reasonable challenge?

i mean GoG is good but not that good

Origin is OK

UPlay is freakin' terrible

if there is a steam monopoly, valve doesnt enforce it, they have gone on record saying they always tell devs to release their games on any platforms they like, and in fact, many steam games are avaliable for sale in numerous other platforms, like GoG, GMG, UPlay or directly from the developers

so why there arent many AAA devs selling their games on GoG as well as on Steam? because they are lazy as fuck, blame them for steam's monopoly, not valve, valve have done nothing but provide a good service
I mostly agree, I didn't mean to say that Valve provides a bad service for the most part, just that Valve / Steam would be much better if it didn't have such a large monopoly.
maybe, there are things they could definitively do better, tought PERSONALLY im more than satisfied with steam, the service just keeps getting better and better for me

now as far as their game development goes... is not much different really, besides Dota 2 i dont think theres been a single recent Valve game i havent enjoyed (and i fully admit being in the minority when it comes to Dota 2), plus they released atleast 1 game per year for 10 years, 2014 actually broke that streak

im cofident in 2015 we will se something related to source 2, i dont expect HL3 tough, my money is on L4D3

i LOVE HL2, but im not willing to push valve into making EP3/HL3 if they dont feel confident they can deliver yet
 

verdant monkai

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Valve aren't a development studio any more. They are basically the online equivalent of gamestop.

The stuff they used to make games with are now just used to make TF2 hats.

Valve is dead

all that remains is Steam.
 

PatrickXD

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Eh, I found Half Life 1 pretty boring. Very much of it's time. Half Life 2 was a mish mash of every other game mechanic under the sun, and was fun. There's no need for a Half life 3. The Half life story is nothing special, nor the characters. I really don't understand the rampant desire for more Half Life, aside from the fact that development was confirmed to be ongoing. I think Valve can learn simply never to tell anyone if development has started until they have an awful lot to show for it and a full-ish commitment to the timeline and shape of the final product.

verdant monkai said:
Valve aren't a development studio any more. They are basically the online equivalent of gamestop.

The stuff they used to make games with are now just used to make TF2 hats.

Valve is dead

all that remains is Steam.
Valve has released a game every year since 2007 on top of Steam and all it's console - related development.
 

turge

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Well there's always the rumor that they are making a new engine for Half Life 3.
 

Spearmaster

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Valve is not known for creating just another game, they like to innovate, especially when it comes to Half-life. Since 80% of other studios build games on the same engines time and time again they can release the same OK games every other year. Valve does not follow, they tend to lead and make products that aren't forgotten about a year after launch. Half-life has always been their lead when the decide to do a major game engine and valve builds all new engines from the ground up unlike the constant minor bumps that most other game engines get with each revision.

Will it be the most awesome thing in gaming...I don't know, but... I will go ahead and say its going to be 100% new and original stuff, because well... that's valve.



......They better not try and give Gordon Freeman a voice actor...