Are we creating a generation of victims?

[xDarc]

I guess some things never change.

Yeah, yeah, I read your posts- you possess the wisdom of an ancient being musing on earth from up on high... and all that.

Victims, I don't know- but I'm pretty sure environment affects upbringing and today's environment is pretty fucked up. Or different, compared to mine- depends on your frame of reference.

Here, I got one for you. The parent who lets kids drink at home where it's "safe." When did this shit start? Because I can honestly tell you this was unheard of when I was growing up. You got the shit smacked out of you when I was growing up; that's different today too.

Anyhow, I believe because of my experience I don't trust authority in any way, shape or form. It's pretty much the story of my life. It got me in an interrogation room with police detectives, booted out of the army, threatened by the FBI, fired from countless jobs. This is not just my perception about myself, this is a fact. Would I have been that way had I had less strict parents? I would argue that all the parents who want to be "cool" parents or be "friends" with their kids have created people who are way too trusting of authority figures into adulthood.

I don't believe a generation is gonna be homogenous, I know a young black redditor in person who bad mouth Obama and prepare for economic collapse- he amazes the shit out of me every time I talk to him- but to say there are not trends in the environment of the times and it does not affect upbringing... I dunno.

 

[Zhukov]

I guess some things never change.

Yeah, yeah, I read your posts- you possess the wisdom of an ancient being musing on earth from up on high... and all that.

Um... okay.

I genuinely can't tell if that's an amusingly backhanded compliment or just regular garden-variety sarcasm.

 

[Vault101]

Um... okay.

I genuinely can't tell if that's an amusingly backhanded compliment or just regular garden-variety sarcasm.

prety sure its sarcasm....given whos replying

edit: not intended as an insult but an observation in the differences of opinion we all posess

 

[xDarc]

I genuinely can't tell if that's an amusingly backhanded compliment or just regular garden-variety sarcasm.

It's mostly the first one, I typically enjoy reading your posts. You tend to boil most things down pretty well, that's the wisdom part, but I believe you're being a bit overly dismissive here- that's the removed ancient being part. Anyway, what do you think?

 

[Something Amyss]

My point (which I could probably have made more clear) is that it can sometimes feel like there's no option for neutrality.

No, I got that. But often times neutrality means a continuation of the issue in progress. And if you're fine with that, well, okay! But the problem is people then complain about how mean it is to point out that they are propagating the issue. Someone already posted MLK's "white moderates" quote, and there's a certain truth to it on any level. While one might find the overt racists reprehensible, it was the "moderates" who so effectively stalled the civil rights movement.

That's not to say that black people being allowed to sit at the same lunch counters and not be harassed for the crime of being black equates to something like "female protagonists in video games," but it is to say that the same mechanism is usually in effect. As such, there often isn't any middle ground. Inaction is tacit approval.

And unfortunately, there's no way to soft serve that so much as to stop hurting the feelings of the so-called "thick skinned."

 

[Armistice]

We definitely are creating, or already have created, a generation of victims. Or worse yet "survivors" Every bad thing in their lives was life threatening, now. "Oh, good, I fall into this group of hapless victims; I now no longer am responsible for my faults or lack of social cue recognition. Also anyone who doesn't like me or my ideas is attacking me solely on that basis! Help!"

We're burying these people in the idea that once you're a "survivor" of something that they are thereby excused from all culpability and should be given special privilege in how you address them and what manner of language you use (The more pandering and full of euphemisms the better). I've also seen "content warnings" ahead of posts now. May contain "triggers" Its weakening people. People grow stronger from adversity when allowed to cope with it.

Horrible things happen. And people need time, or loved ones, or maybe solitude depending on the individual and that's fine but the responsibilities of life don't pause because of it. My dad used to beat on me on a fairly regular basis. If I decide that means I'll just stop going to work and my kids starve, its my fault. Not his. The statute of limitations on blaming our parents expires on adulthood.

 

[FavouriteDream]

Without a shadow of a doubt, yes.

It's incredible how hard some people go out of their way to find moral outrage or to make themselves feel discriminated against. They'll ignore 1,000 positives and focus on 1 negative and build their whole world view around it.

 

[jademunky]

post edit. Wrong forum, had 2 browsers open and.....

 

[Quadocky]

I will preface this by saying I'm a fairly left wing person, I lean more to the right on some issues but broadly I'm a bit of a dirty commie.

As a person who is really into political stuff its a good idea to avoid labels. They can mean too much or too little.

Anyway...is this generation, the internet generation, creating a culture of people being victims? All I see online is complaining about various issues which in the grand scheme of things, are either incredibly hard to quantify, and not a huge problem - cat calling, women in videogames, looking at a person the wrong way, being called a word that someone finds offensive and building a mountain out of this.

Catcalling on its face seems harmless to the person not experiencing it. What a lot of people don't get is the frequency of it. Women in Videogames is an issue because both the lack of women characters and the way developers treat women in relation to the creation of video games. Mainstream developers have an awful track record even at just token acknowledgement of their shit. Calling out someone on using pointlessly disparaging language is not 'victim mentality' so much as calling out someone on being shitty. Like the whole Jon Tron thing, Weird Al was corrected and apologized. Jon Tron went into dick mode for some dumb reason, burying himself and ruining his character.

Everyone seems to act like a victim nowadays, and the internet is just helping this, creating echo chambers where people can build up these victim complexes about simple everyday things.

The only example of this I know of are White Supremacists, and the Mens Rights Movement. Or any American Conservative movement really.

These "movements" don't seem to be about actual activism or changing something, they are just content to moan about being victimised and make YouTube videos about it rather than getting out there and actually doing positive action about it?

Which applies to all mentioned above.

Are we creating a generation of victims basically, when people should just grow thicker skin?

In the case of American Reactionaries and Racists, yes. They don't know how to grow a thicker skin because their skulls are already so damn dense in the first place.

 

[Super Cyborg]

I can only speak from my experience, and to me it seems mostly dependent on how a person was raised. Part of the problem is that with all the stuff we have, we have parents that are getting lazier at raising their kids, or just try to do what they consider is easier, instead of doing the actual necessary work that is needed. Instead of disciplining the children and telling them no, I see a lot more kids that get what they want, because the parents fold to get the kid to stop complaining, which causes problems later in life. I have a few friends that seem to play the victim card, or did play it.

One friend of mine would always blame the professors if he didn't do well enough. I only took a few classes with him, since we were different majors, but the fact that he blamed the professors instead of looking at himself and trying to figure out how to improve, he made himself the victim. This became a problem when after finishing College, by doing the bare minimum, he was laid off at his job less then a month after getting it, and spent over a year trying to find something, but kept saying that it was everyone else's fault. It didn't help that he lived a luxuries life all his life, and that he could always get what he wanted. Over a year and a half later, he figured out that he needs to be more active, and he might be teaching this coming school year. It took a while and it was painful, but he managed to pull through.

Another friend of mine is struggling, and it's painful to watch. He had one job for about a year, went for a different one that lasted less than 2 weeks, and then months later went back to where he used to work, at a lower position because that's all they had. He complains about how his life sucks and that he has no options, when he actively left both jobs, and went back to the place knowing he disliked it. It's frustrating because he doesn't seem to understand that it can take time before you get a job you can really like, and even then there will usually be some negatives. He's been wallowing in self pity for over a year now, with no signs of toughing up.

I have other friends that are struggling to certain degrees with jobs, but they are at least being level headed and active in their work and trying to find a new place. I don't think we are creating a generation of victims, but newer generations are slowly coming in that get what they want all the time, and once they get into the real world, reality hits them and they don't know what to do except complain, which unless it's about an actual injustice, it's people complaining because they don't know that being active works better, or even how to be active.

 

[Blow_Pop]

I was having this argument on facebook with a former friend of mine. In fact this was the conversation that got her kicked off my friends list. Long and short of it, she believes that everyone needs to grow a thicker skin because she dealt with being bullied all through school and turned out ok and without issues. Which is great for her. But she holds basically the same kind of stance that the OP appears to in the first post (I'm not making assumptions I'm just doing a slight comparison that may or may not be fully accurate) that we're babying people nowadays and that if they don't learn to stand up for themselves and get a thicker skin it's all their fault (thus making them victims). (Here's the part where she most likely differs) I brought up the fact that there are kids (like my brother) who have medical issues that cause them to not be able to deal with it. And it's simply not an option to just tell them to grow a thicker skin and ignore it or stand up for themselves. She completely ignored it.

Little bit of background before I continue. My brother was bullied by kids AND teachers through school to the point we had to pull him out in high school and basically home school him (only it wasn't really home school). My brother is a high functioning autistic. In his case (mind this doesn't apply as a blanket statement to everyone with autism, only to him), he doesn't understand the concept of bullying or how to ignore it. He doesn't really understand social interaction period (for those who watch the big bang theory kind of like sheldon but not). All he knew was people were saying hurtful things to him for seemingly no reason and he was getting the shit beat out of him by other kids and the administration was doing nothing about it despite our numerous reports of it. I, on the other hand, got bullied from kindergarten all the way into college and I still occasionally get people who bring shit up from 11+ years ago (because people in my city are childish as shit and can't grow the fuck up) and tease me about it. My family teases the shit out of me too. Despite repeated attempts to get them to stop because it's "funny" that their almost 30 year old child/relation still gets hurt when they make comments about appearance or why I never bring home anyone I'm dating or why I don't date or why I don't like socialising and prefer to sit in a corner and read or whatever it is they're teasing me about. I have my own mental issues but fortunately, unlike my brother, I can still function in society. I don't like to but I can.

Back to the story I was telling about my former friend. We went back and forth some more and I brought up the issues with my brother and this time she actually acknowledged it and said that we were making him into a victim and he could learn how to stand up for himself and develop a thicker skin. Which is inaccurate in his case. He's tried.

The internet, I wish, was around like it is today when I was in school. Because then, I would have found a support system and friends. And learned how to stand up for myself back then instead of learning how to do it when I was an adult. Part of having the thicker skin as so many people like to call it, is having a support system either with friends or family. Not everyone has that. So, no. I don't think we're creating a generation of victims. Creating a generation of people with a lack of manners and basic respect towards others, yes. Victims, no. We're making issues (like street harassment) known to more people and making it into the actual issue it is.

And for the record, street harassment (cat calling and shit) is a serious thing that does affect self esteem and how people are perceived and shouldn't be happening. I've been getting that shit since I was 11 no matter what I wear. No matter how baggy the clothing, I still get it to this day. I get groped because people think it's ok to do (til I kick their shin hard enough for them to have issues walking). That shouldn't happen to anyone. My body is not public property. Nor is anyone's (unless someone decides that their body is then that's their deal but in general....). And that's my .02 on it.

 

[Phasmal]

I totally think you're right OP. Even when the cause has merit, "victims" usually overstate their problem, causing the whole issue to seem larger than it really is.


Let's take the common one around here lately. Women in video games:

Someone says to me, "I wish there were more games where you play as a woman hero instead of all the whiteguy/brown hair that we've been getting lately."

I agree. It's lacking in imagination, and it makes every game seem the same, regardless of the scenario.

Someone says to me, "I'm sick of all this woman repression in video games. Why do no games properly represent women? Games are sexist, and I can't get immersed in the games I do want to play!"

Shut the fuck up. Games are games, and they are fun, no matter what your avatar is. I'm not a girl or a dog/robot, but Jetforce Gemini alone proves you to be either an idiot or just someone who wants to whine and complain. Any accusations of sexism just means you aren't part of the target audience. You don't see me saying that your Gilmore Girls needs to be changed so that I can enjoy it too!

This is kind of where you lost me.

Gilmore Girls isn't mine. Games aren't yours. That's not how it works.

And if most of us didn't think games were fun, we wouldn't be playing them. You can complain about something you love. You can even lose your temper and go off on something you love.
You may not like it, but.... well honestly if you don't like it it's pretty easy to avoid seeing as the gender threads can probably be seen from space. Just avoid them.

 

[endtherapture]

Ah, the "victimisation" generational argument, right up there with "kids these days" as one of the oldest notions. We're also always living in a time of great strife, possibly the end times.

Are we creating a generation of victims basically, when people should just grow thicker skin?

Yeah, that comes off as "you're the problem for feeling things."

There's also a general hypocrisy of the notion of thicker skin, since it usually only applies towards things that don't personally bother us. "I'm not offended, so you shouldn't be." Case in point, watching the delicious butthurt over The Big Bang Theory from people telling feminists to STFU and stop being offended at women in media.

Humans are emotional beings. We tend to prioritise our own first, and that's somewhat understandable. But people go one step further and dismiss or berate others for things we don't prioritise, and that's just hypocritical, since few people are so untouchable.

But then, is wanting women in video games anything related to victimisation in the first place? That seems like a bit of a stretch. I'd talk about cat calling, but that's literally not a new point of contention. That would be asking like if we're raising a generation of miscreants because of all that Big Band music that's so popular nowadays.

I really don't think dismissing people as wanting to be victims is very helpful to anyone.

More to the point, it's a common dehumanisation tactic.

I think what is more damaging is the fact that people are becoming irresponsible and always attributing things to an outside factor. At some point you either have to step up and take some responsibility for your plight, or getting out of it, rather than just attributing it to something vague like "cultural misogynyny" "the patriarchy" etc.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

Hard to say, I think more specifically we're creating a generation that that's increasingly demanding political correctness, so much that it's beginning to look ridiculous.

Elliot Rodger kills 6 people after writing a manifesto that contains anger against ethnic groups, women, and other men. Suddenly this becomes an issue of the "patriarchy" instead of a clearly disturbed guy.

Person working in a bar in Philadelphia writes a domestic violence joke on the bar's sign, people complain and s/he is fired.

At the Python conference, two guys make a "joke", Adria Richards tweets this and one of the guys gets fired.

Mom sues a school cause her son (who identifies as female) wants to use the girls bathroom.

Yahtzee makes a joke about "trannies", he changes it, some people get offended anyway.

Gary Newman says he won't include female avatars in Rust, this is seen as him "excluding women"

JonTron says "retarded" in no reference to mentally disabled, people accuse him of "ableism"

The whole "thin privilege" thing.

Chuck Palahniuk says that there aren't a lot of books that examine male social models, now he's being labeled an MRA.

The whole "thin privilege" thing.
_

Truth be told, I'm sick of it. These are non-issues and things being blown out of proportion or misrepresented.

 

[gargantual]

Ehhh, not really. But it does sometimes seem to me as if we're creating a generation that will not solve its own problems, but will instead try to force/guilt/exasperate others into solving those problems.

You know, just like pretty much every generation so far. So I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Exactly. But i think victims is just endtheraptures way of understanding it. To me there are only certain civil injustices that disadvantage society one should lobby for, but to lobby one's self interests into every institution, group product and interest that they did not found, simply to cater to their sensibilities is unreasonable. We all contribute what ideas or things we feel into the marketplace, and people can choose to discern, partake in or avoid them. That's as fair as fair gets.

If ideas, entertainment, media, forms of speech don't engender strong reactions in us then we'd have nothing significant to talk about.

It is first world problems to me, because if we had to stop sit down and think about everything we consume and how it disadvantages, or comes from someone else's labor and plight in the world. We'd be neanderthal bumps on a log, not doing or consuming anything for fear of impacting the world at large. Hell College Humor had a video on that.

And that lack of agency I can guarantee would be offensive to someone.



The Law of averages still applies.

 

[Skatologist]

@Lovely Mixture: Okay, let's go through this.

1. Have you found a clip of a psychologist clearly stating that Rodgers was "disturbed" or any other evidence of so? Because, he does appear to be like many other guys I come across, feeling that they had "earned" sex a long time ago. The actions of things he had done may be extreme or disturbed, but I can find a good portion of that mindset in even close friends and family. My grandpa even thought that women should have give him "some" because he kind of viewed Rodgers as me and actually thought he was a peculiar and isolated nice guy that didn't get his way and feared I might become that way.

2 & 3. Not aware of, although I wouldn't mind links

4. I believe this video will cover most bases with that issue:
5 & 6. Not aware of, although I wouldn't mind links

7. That's about half of that side accusing Jon, the others were really angry on how moderates just told him to stop but he stood by that stupid joke like he was persecuted.

8. You said "thin privilege" twice, and I'm not touching that issue.

9. Not aware of the issue, but I support such an analysis if it is true. I'd much prefer to see his statement in full though, because, I would suppose, something may have got lost in translation.

Lastly: Everything can be a non-issue if you don't think it affects YOU, and those issues may very well be misrepresented and blown out of proportion by "both sides".

 

[Riot3000]

Nope I think we have generation of "victims" I think their are plenty of people just fine in the world and probably still "whine" online from time to time. In fact whine can be subjective from both left and right perspective. I mean I could easily say people going on a bout trophies and stars are just over exaggerating and take a left argument and say the same thing.

I think my main issue is that it seems like EVERYTHING is so polarized it either this or that disagree and you are on their side. I mean depending on topic I have been called "white knight" and a "red pillar" and all that other go to insults depending upon how I approached a topic. There is no ground to discuss complexities of situations just here is my side agree or else. That is the main issue and the calls of victimization falls under that. Lets be honest this isn't even a left leaning or righting leaning thing we have ALL accepted something as our "truth" and anything that goes against it is just "whining". I have done it and I have seen it all over in conversation in real life and on the web.

 

[Something Amyss]

I think what is more damaging is the fact that people are becoming irresponsible and always attributing things to an outside factor. At some point you either have to step up and take some responsibility for your plight, or getting out of it, rather than just attributing it to something vague like "cultural misogynyny" "the patriarchy" etc.

Another super old argument which will adapt itself to the times. Come on. This was used in the 50s and 60s against civil rights advocates, because they weren't taking responsibility, either.

It's nice to say "take responsibility and stop blaming X" but you might as well be calling people lazy or use some other buzz word intended to shut down the argument.

Gilmore Girls isn't mine.

Of course not. It's mine.

Games are games, and they are fun, no matter what your avatar is.

Then why do guys have a tantrum every time it's even asked why there aren't more women? If it's so irrelevant, why the hostility? People who insist they don't want to play as a woman? people who go so far out of their way to "prove" women don't sell in video games? Hell, why do you feel the need to tell people to "shut up?"

If it's so irrelevant, why sound off at all?

 

[Signa]

I think what is more damaging is the fact that people are becoming irresponsible and always attributing things to an outside factor. At some point you either have to step up and take some responsibility for your plight, or getting out of it, rather than just attributing it to something vague like "cultural misogynyny" "the patriarchy" etc.

Another super old argument which will adapt itself to the times. Come on. This was used in the 50s and 60s against civil rights advocates, because they weren't taking responsibility, either.

It's nice to say "take responsibility and stop blaming X" but you might as well be calling people lazy or use some other buzz word intended to shut down the argument.

Gilmore Girls isn't mine.

Of course not. It's mine.

Games are games, and they are fun, no matter what your avatar is.

Then why do guys have a tantrum every time it's even asked why there aren't more women? If it's so irrelevant, why the hostility? People who insist they don't want to play as a woman? people who go so far out of their way to "prove" women don't sell in video games? Hell, why do you feel the need to tell people to "shut up?"

If it's so irrelevant, why sound off at all?

Did you not read my whole post? It's about the framing of the idea, more than the idea itself. I want diversity. I DON'T want diversity for diversity's sake. One will lead to better and more creative writing, the other will be more of the same shit everyone is already complaining about, but probably worse, because whomever is writing is no longer making what they want.