Arkham City.... Sexist?

[Sizzle Montyjing]

No, it's not, let's move on.
Okay okay, i'll actually read the OP.
*reads OP*

No, it's not, let's move on.
Okay okay, i'll elaborate, they're saying that it's sexist... because burly, stupid goons (correct word, they're henchmen) are calling Catwoman a '*****' when she is beating the shit out of them...

WOAH GUYS STOP THE PRESSES.
SHIT JUST GOT REAL!/sarcasm

I have nothing more to say on this matter, it's stupid.

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

Couple of very obvious problems with this one:

1. It's the BAD GUYS that are calling her a *****. It's the BAD GUYS beating her up. That means the game is taking a bunch of sexist assholes and saying, "See these guys? Don't be like them!" And hell, even if BATMAN called her a *****, the game still wouldn't be sexist. And here's why:

2. It's not sexist to call a single woman a *****. It's only sexist if you say ALL women are bitches. I mean, lets face it...Catwoman is not exactly Mother Teresa. But guess what? It's OK for Catwoman to be a total ***** without implying sexism. Just because SHE'S a *****, that doesn't mean that all women are bitches.

3. I'm sure these thugs have nothing but compliments for Batman, then? Wait, I forgot. Only women can be victims of sexism.

I really hate living in a culture where all of this is not EXTREMELY obvious.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

Just being picky, but it's fine for a roomful of violent thugs to beat up a lone woman with baseball bats and the like, but calling her a ***** while you shatter her ribcage into a calcium themed jenga set is too far?

Of course it IS fine, she's quite capable of defending herself, unlike so many female characters in popular culture, only existing to be rescued by the man, so while she IS rather built around just being sexy for a male audience, in a way she's doing more for feminism that many characters.

I just still don't get why massive amounts of violence are fine, but rude words cause such terrible outcries of anguish from people who'll probably never play the said content.

 

[lacktheknack]

And they present it as a bunch of goons calling a woman a *****.

They show a great number of aspects that present an overall troubling tone.

A tone that generally respects the male members of it's cast more than female ones.

Not convinced. Is it sexist when the enemy calls your male character a "************"? Same thing.

The key here is that they're enemies, and were supposed to take cues that calling someone a ***** is bad, because they do it. This isn't even subtle, this is basic distinguishing between heroes and villains.

Also, Heather Mason in Silent Hill 3 says the following line to Claudia:

"SHUT your STINKING MOUTH, BIIITCH!"

Notice the general lack of respect involved here. Is it OK now because a girl said it? That opens up a can of worms with double standards.

 

[chstens]

It's sensationalist journalism, if it was Batman who pimped-slapped Catwoman while calling her a *****, then I would be inclined to maybe agree, but no, not now. If that's sexist, then so are a huge majority of action movies starring female actors.

 

[tzimize]

Couple of very obvious problems with this one:

1. It's the BAD GUYS that are calling her a *****. It's the BAD GUYS beating her up. That means the game is taking a bunch of sexist assholes and saying, "See these guys? Don't be like them!" And hell, even if BATMAN called her a *****, the game still wouldn't be sexist. And here's why:

2. It's not sexist to call a single woman a *****. It's only sexist if you say ALL women are bitches. I mean, lets face it...Catwoman is not exactly Mother Teresa. But guess what? It's OK for Catwoman to be a total ***** without implying sexism. Just because SHE'S a *****, that doesn't mean that all women are bitches.

3. I'm sure these thugs have nothing but compliments for Batman, then? Wait, I forgot. Only women can be victims of sexism.

I really hate living in a culture where all of this is not EXTREMELY obvious.

That last sentence of yours really hit home. I'm a sad panda now. Stupid society...

 

[4173]

Random nitpick for the Hulk article. The security guards are not nice people. Their use of the word ***** does not contradict the idea that it's only coming from villains.

 

[Danpascooch]

So, Kotaku recently posted an article how Arkham City might contain some elements of sexism. Take a look. [http://kotaku.com/5851358/batman-arkham-citys-weird-*****-fixation] What do you all think? Is the overuse of the word "*****" in this context just simply unfortunately lackluster writing? Or is it something more?

Some takes on this from others:
http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/goddammit-video-games-the-first-few-hours-of-arkham-city-is-lots-of-fun-but-super-duper-sexist/
http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.com/2011/10/will-arkham-city-be-this-years-other-m.html

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but even if there are elements of sexism, give credit where it's due, to the source material: the comics.

They invented and gave the personality to Catwoman after all, if it's sexist, blame the comics, not the game.

 

[WeAreStevo]

What's funny is I don't think that the argument they should be using should be the use of "*****" by the criminals.

If they really wanted to have a more salient point, I'd suggest the challenge map I played as Robin where Riddler told the guys I was picking off "Come on, he has you all running like scared little girls" (paraphrased).

I thought for maybe a second "Oh noes! Someone's going to say this is misogynistic" but people don't take into account that these people are murderous criminals. If they said PC stuff all the time it wouldn't be believable.

 

[LilithSlave]

1. It's the BAD GUYS that are calling her a *****.

That claim has already been given a rebuttal to:

HULK BET THAT SOME PEOPLE MAY TRY TO DEFEND THIS HORSESHIT DISPOSITION BY SAYING IT?S OKAY BECAUSE THE ONES SAYING IT ARE THE ?BAD GUYS.? WHICH ISN?T ACTUALLY TRUE BECAUSE LOTS OF THE SECURITY GUARDS AND A GOOD GUY FROM LAST GAME ALL CHIP IN WITH THE ?*****? TALK JUST AS MUCH AS EVERYONE ELSE. (2) AND IS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT THE WAY BATMAN OR CATWOMAN RESPOND TO ANY OF THIS THAT MAKES HULK THINK OTHERWISE? IS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT THE WAY IT?S SHOWN TO MAKE HULK THINK IT?S ANYTHING MORE THAN SEXIST FUN MEANT TO ELLICIT A FEW PAINFUL LAUGHS FROM AN AUDIENCE WHO DOESN?T KNOW ANY BETTER?

 

[rossatdi]

Did the author forget that you just because a character says something, it doesn't mean the writer believes it? Wow, basic literature 101 failure.

If it was sexist, she wouldn't be kicking their asses.

 

[lacktheknack]

1. It's the BAD GUYS that are calling her a *****.

That claim has already been given a rebuttal to:

snip

Congratulations on ignoring EVERYTHING ELSE HE TYPED. This doesn't strengthen your argument.

 

[The Human Torch]

So, Kotaku recently posted an article how Arkham City might contain some elements of sexism. Take a look. [http://kotaku.com/5851358/batman-arkham-citys-weird-*****-fixation] What do you all think? Is the overuse of the word "*****" in this context just simply unfortunately lackluster writing? Or is it something more?

Some takes on this from others:
http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/goddammit-video-games-the-first-few-hours-of-arkham-city-is-lots-of-fun-but-super-duper-sexist/
http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.com/2011/10/will-arkham-city-be-this-years-other-m.html

Kotaku, the Film critic hulk and the game-overthinker are probably the worst examples of people to listen to. They are so, so very amateuristic and only writing controversial articles to generate hits.
Don't visit their websites, don't link to them, their websites need to die a silent death.

On topic: Catwoman beats the crap out of murderers, rapists and thieves, do you think that they will have something to say about it? Do you think that it will ever go beyond "kill that *****" and "get her!"? No? Then you know why they say what they say.

 

[BlindChance]

It's not about saying *****.

It's about the overall tone. Which I have to say, is pretty messed up seeming.

LilithSlave has it.

Guys, you can do junkyard prison inmates without resorting to endless parades of gendered insults. It's not hard, here, watch me go.

"The cat is here! Where'd she go? Where'd she go?"

"I saw that f***ing alley cat slink off from the courtroom. Boss sent me to blow up her house. Hope all her mangy felines burned."

"Here, kitty kitty kitty. Stop hiding."

Notice something? I used three bits of dialogue there which emphasize her catness. The game has been using almost exclusively dialogue related to her femaleness.

This tells you where the designer's attention was when they thought of Catwoman. It weren't the cat.

 

[LilithSlave]

Not convinced. Is it sexist when the enemy calls your male character a "************"? Same thing.

It would be if the cast of male characters were constantly berated and called such names, while the female characters were all respectfully referred to.

And if there was less of a tendency to refer to such things as sexist, it's because we live in a society where male privilege exists. And where multiple aspects of language and the contexts within them imply some sort of female and feminine inferiority. I know that society of the entire world has moved a lot forward, but women are still a minority. And minority does not mean smaller number, in this context. You can be a smaller number of people than the people you're oppressing, such as whites in South Africa. Under apartheid, blacks were a minority, but were also larger in number than white South Africans.

Women are still a minority. Not in number, but in standing, just like always. Things have gotten better, but the issue has not been fixed.

The key here is that they're enemies

It is not "enemies", it is a generally unchallenged notion by much of the cast. That women are basically bitches.

Or at least, that's the overwhelming tone that the game conveys. The word "*****" is pretty unimportant to the argument, really. It's the fact that in general, the female characters are less respected than the male ones. Quite a bit, actually.

 

[ultrachicken]

First of all, the people calling Catwoman sexist are the bad guys. They are not the rolemodels to be found in this game.

Second, it's only sexist if they think all women are bitches.

Third, why no mention of the part where a thug suggests kidnapping and raping Harley Quinn? If you're going to make wild claims about sexism, you should at least focus on the big parts.

 

[Brad Shepard]

This is the same site that gave away a huge spoiler and told the goers of that site to screw off, so im going to take everything they say with a pillar of salt.

 

[ultrachicken]

Not convinced. Is it sexist when the enemy calls your male character a "************"? Same thing.

It would be if the cast of male characters were constantly berated and called such names, while the female characters were all respectfully referred to.

And if there was less of a tendency to refer to such things as sexist, it's because we live in a society where male privilege exists. And where multiple aspects of language and the contexts within them imply some sort of female and feminine inferiority.

The key here is that they're enemies

It is not "enemies", it is a generally unchallenged notion by much of the cast. That women are basically bitches.

Or at least, that's the overwhelming tone that the game conveys. The word "*****" is pretty irrelevant to the argument, really. It's the fact that in general, the female characters are less respected than the male ones. Quite a bit, actually.

Most of the "respected" cast members are villains. To rise in the villain hierarchy, which is extremely sexist, then you pretty much have to be male. In the collection of good guys, we have only The Oracle, but there's only really four good guys, anyways (if you don't count Catwoman). Let's also not forget that the ratio of male to female hostages/victims is around 3 to 1.

 

[SundayRoast]

As far as I know; these goons would be shouting a lot more worse insults.
Like: ONCE I'M FINISHED WITH YOU ***** IMMA RAEP YOU!!!!!!

They had to skim down on the profanical vocabulary.

Taking the circumstanses in the game, it isn't sexist.

 

[Spy_Guy]

Quite frankly, Kotaku managed to contradict the rest of the article just fine in that one image up top.

Note the fact that the fellows saying it look like idiots, and that one of them is actually occupied with having his teeth kicked in.
If anything, that's a parody of sexism.

So, I say, move along folks, nothing to see here.