Arkham City.... Sexist?

[The Human Torch]

So, Kotaku recently posted an article how Arkham City might contain some elements of sexism. Take a look. [http://kotaku.com/5851358/batman-arkham-citys-weird-*****-fixation] What do you all think? Is the overuse of the word "*****" in this context just simply unfortunately lackluster writing? Or is it something more?

Some takes on this from others:
http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/goddammit-video-games-the-first-few-hours-of-arkham-city-is-lots-of-fun-but-super-duper-sexist/
http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.com/2011/10/will-arkham-city-be-this-years-other-m.html

Kotaku, the Film critic hulk and the game-overthinker are probably the worst examples of people to listen to. They are so, so very amateuristic and only writing controversial articles to generate hits.
Don't visit their websites, don't link to them, their websites need to die a silent death.

On topic: Catwoman beats the crap out of murderers, rapists and thieves, do you think that they will have something to say about it? Do you think that it will ever go beyond "kill that *****" and "get her!"? No? Then you know why they say what they say.

 

[BlindChance]

It's not about saying *****.

It's about the overall tone. Which I have to say, is pretty messed up seeming.

LilithSlave has it.

Guys, you can do junkyard prison inmates without resorting to endless parades of gendered insults. It's not hard, here, watch me go.

"The cat is here! Where'd she go? Where'd she go?"

"I saw that f***ing alley cat slink off from the courtroom. Boss sent me to blow up her house. Hope all her mangy felines burned."

"Here, kitty kitty kitty. Stop hiding."

Notice something? I used three bits of dialogue there which emphasize her catness. The game has been using almost exclusively dialogue related to her femaleness.

This tells you where the designer's attention was when they thought of Catwoman. It weren't the cat.

 

[LilithSlave]

Not convinced. Is it sexist when the enemy calls your male character a "************"? Same thing.

It would be if the cast of male characters were constantly berated and called such names, while the female characters were all respectfully referred to.

And if there was less of a tendency to refer to such things as sexist, it's because we live in a society where male privilege exists. And where multiple aspects of language and the contexts within them imply some sort of female and feminine inferiority. I know that society of the entire world has moved a lot forward, but women are still a minority. And minority does not mean smaller number, in this context. You can be a smaller number of people than the people you're oppressing, such as whites in South Africa. Under apartheid, blacks were a minority, but were also larger in number than white South Africans.

Women are still a minority. Not in number, but in standing, just like always. Things have gotten better, but the issue has not been fixed.

The key here is that they're enemies

It is not "enemies", it is a generally unchallenged notion by much of the cast. That women are basically bitches.

Or at least, that's the overwhelming tone that the game conveys. The word "*****" is pretty unimportant to the argument, really. It's the fact that in general, the female characters are less respected than the male ones. Quite a bit, actually.

 

[ultrachicken]

First of all, the people calling Catwoman sexist are the bad guys. They are not the rolemodels to be found in this game.

Second, it's only sexist if they think all women are bitches.

Third, why no mention of the part where a thug suggests kidnapping and raping Harley Quinn? If you're going to make wild claims about sexism, you should at least focus on the big parts.

 

[Brad Shepard]

This is the same site that gave away a huge spoiler and told the goers of that site to screw off, so im going to take everything they say with a pillar of salt.

 

[ultrachicken]

Not convinced. Is it sexist when the enemy calls your male character a "************"? Same thing.

It would be if the cast of male characters were constantly berated and called such names, while the female characters were all respectfully referred to.

And if there was less of a tendency to refer to such things as sexist, it's because we live in a society where male privilege exists. And where multiple aspects of language and the contexts within them imply some sort of female and feminine inferiority.

The key here is that they're enemies

It is not "enemies", it is a generally unchallenged notion by much of the cast. That women are basically bitches.

Or at least, that's the overwhelming tone that the game conveys. The word "*****" is pretty irrelevant to the argument, really. It's the fact that in general, the female characters are less respected than the male ones. Quite a bit, actually.

Most of the "respected" cast members are villains. To rise in the villain hierarchy, which is extremely sexist, then you pretty much have to be male. In the collection of good guys, we have only The Oracle, but there's only really four good guys, anyways (if you don't count Catwoman). Let's also not forget that the ratio of male to female hostages/victims is around 3 to 1.

 

[SundayRoast]

As far as I know; these goons would be shouting a lot more worse insults.
Like: ONCE I'M FINISHED WITH YOU ***** IMMA RAEP YOU!!!!!!

They had to skim down on the profanical vocabulary.

Taking the circumstanses in the game, it isn't sexist.

 

[Spy_Guy]

Quite frankly, Kotaku managed to contradict the rest of the article just fine in that one image up top.

Note the fact that the fellows saying it look like idiots, and that one of them is actually occupied with having his teeth kicked in.
If anything, that's a parody of sexism.

So, I say, move along folks, nothing to see here.

 

[BlindChance]

OK, guys? Anyone who says "But it's coming from bad people!" from now on loses the thread. The point has been made, the point has been extensively rebutted. The point is not who's saying it. The point is why the developers made this choice and what it does to the game as a whole.

For anyone who's been watching the last two Extra Credits, this is a textbook case of the kind of lazy design they've been railing against, and how it leads to unfortunate problems. In this case, sexism.

 

[SIXVI06-M]

Games totally need to be more PC, the best game in the universe is a game where everything is politically correct and really really really makes an effort never ever to look at any group, culture or society the wrong way.

Yes, I think playing the most moderate and inoffensive and grey game in the world would thrill me to bits.

 

[DracoSuave]

There's two meanings and connotations to the word *****, and they are both absolutely antithetical to each other. Context determines the tone.

Both logically come from canine metaphors.

1) An alpha female.

2) An omega dog.

In calling Catwoman a *****.... it's accurate (if prejorative.) Because, she IS an alpha female. She's agressive, assertive, and VIOLENT. She gets called a ***** because she IS a *****.

But... she is never made anyone's *****. This is because she's not submissive. I assure you, calling someone a ***** is far less sexist than threatening to MAKE HER your *****.

Thing is, it IS prejorative. Which is EXACTLY the right thing to do. And as prejoratives go...

Well, at least there wasn't a lot of pussy insults.

OK, guys? Anyone who says "But it's coming from bad people!" from now on loses the thread. The point has been made, the point has been extensively rebutted. The point is not who's saying it. The point is why the developers made this choice and what it does to the game as a whole.

And so, looking at context is irrelevent to determining message? Really?!

For anyone who's been watching the last two Extra Credits, this is a textbook case of the kind of lazy design they've been railing against, and how it leads to unfortunate problems. In this case, sexism.

Quite the contrary, Extra Credits would probably have no problem with sexists being portrayed in a game as brainless thugs you destroy and defeat.

If it were to accuse it of laziness, it would have a problem with that being a lazy portrayal of feminism.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

And they present it as a bunch of goons calling a woman a *****.

They show a great number of aspects that present an overall troubling tone.

A tone that generally respects the male members of it's cast more than female ones.

They're criminals. All of them. You can go to a sports bar and hear most of the same sort of comments. The ones that would be heard in prison would be much worse. I have not played the game but going off of the opening comments of the first article linked saying that the game is supposed to be very dark and gritty I would say that the frequent use of the word "*****" is rather laughably less than gritty. I am thinking that they may have wished to use stronger language but didn't get the go ahead.

The tone fits well with the character as well, from what I know of the Catwoman character. She's a hardcore badass woman in a scene filled primarily misogynistic murderers and rapists. That they continually call her "*****" is evidence of their lesser opinion of her as a woman and their lashing out at the threat she poses to their macho male egos. So yeah, the way she is treated by macho misogynistic criminals who are in prison is immature and sexist. Is there some reason you think that isn't very realistic or appropriate to the setting?

 

[DracoSuave]

What bothers me is that Catwoman gets displayed as a testament to sexism....


...but Harley Quinn, who is INTENTIONALLY designed as a sexist stereotype, DOESN'T!?!

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

Who woulda thought that angry, violent minions would resort to insulting someone who is attacking them while they try to kill her in return?

Yup... clearly "sexist" -.-;

This...

Sexism IN media does't mean that said media IS sexist. Stupid people can't tell the difference, but it's possible for an author/creator's characters to be racist, sexist, murderous fucks without said creator to be one. It's called believable characters and quality writing.

...and this.

It makes sense that a bunch of criminals might be a bit sexist towards a character who's always been a bit sexualized. And all just because these characters are in the game and are seen often (wow, a Batman game with lots of criminals, who'da thunk?) doesn't mean the game itself is supporting sexism. If the game showed these actions in a positive light, then sure, the game is a bit sexist. Not if it's used to show how horrible a character is though. It's like saying WW2 games are anti-Semitic because there are Nazis.

 

[Tanis]

Wait...really?

So something like Twilight which is basically about how women are worthless unless they have a man...isn't?

Or, maybe a movie like The Help where the ONLY reason why black people 'rosa up' (get it? Rosa Parks?) is because a white women made them realize they should...isn't racist, right?

Then maybe there's films like Miss Congeniality which basically states that every women who is strong really just wants to be weak and pretty.

Hell lets not mention Call of Juarez: The Cartel which is probably one of the worst examples of racism/sexism/misinformation since, IDK, '

Yeah...Batman, not really an issue for ME.

 

[Doom-Slayer]

So, Kotaku recently posted an article how Arkham City might contain some elements of sexism. Take a look. [http://kotaku.com/5851358/batman-arkham-citys-weird-*****-fixation] What do you all think? Is the overuse of the word "*****" in this context just simply unfortunately lackluster writing? Or is it something more?

Some takes on this from others:
http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/goddammit-video-games-the-first-few-hours-of-arkham-city-is-lots-of-fun-but-super-duper-sexist/
http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.com/2011/10/will-arkham-city-be-this-years-other-m.html

Anyone who uses the words "Super duper" to describe something thenwrites fully in caps, I cannot take seriously.

And anyway, the overall point is this, all of them, Batman, Catwoman all superheroes/villians are all overdone in their own way. Batman is super masculine, Catwoman wears leather and uses whips...how is that NOT sexualized and "sexist". I hardly think its sexist when baddies are using a "female-directed" swearword on a female rather than what..a generic one? I reeeeeally dont think it matters that much considering when you insult someone the entire point is your insulting someone...

 

[Denamic]

I'd make an argument, but I noticed Demosthenes in the comment section of the kotaku article basically made all my arguments for me better than I could.

 

[Nouw]

Funny how this only comes up when women get insulted, but not with men... now that is sexist

Bingo! The sexism I see here is that only Catwoman gets the ***** treatment!