Armed civilian, 17, shoots 2 dead during Kenosha happening

[lil devils x]

]

That isn't quite right.. it is more like this in my case since that doesn't exactly apply to me:

 

[lil devils x]

For some reason it wouldn't let me add this above:
The first one is the traditional hairstyle for girls in my tribe ( Yes, Princess Leia's hair came from our tribe). Second one is one of our sacred dances and the last one was when our tribe assisted others in killing and running out the Europeans from our lands after they tortured, enslaved and slaughtered people..( All we have that is comparable to the US revolution since our tribe never actually went to war with the US and our tribe still remains in our homelands) And yes, it's true, I can't help but still view Europeans as invaders even this many years later when they start trying to give me advice on how things should be done. XD

 

[Trunkage]

For some reason it wouldn't let me add this above:
The first one is the traditional hairstyle for girls in my tribe ( Yes, Princess Leia's hair came from our tribe). Second one is one of our sacred dances and the last one was when our tribe assisted others in killing and running out the Europeans from our lands after they tortured, enslaved and slaughtered people..( All we have that is comparable to the US revolution since our tribe never actually went to war with the US and our tribe still remains in our homelands) And yes, it's true, I can't help but still view Europeans as invaders even this many years later when they start trying to give me advice on how things should be done. XD

Glad you explained the second one - it looked like an eagle attacking someone.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

For some reason it wouldn't let me add this above:
The first one is the traditional hairstyle for girls in my tribe ( Yes, Princess Leia's hair came from our tribe).

Looks more like double ox horns to me.

By the way Lil, I've been returning to a subject from my youth I enjoyed which is cryptozoology and other "wooweewoo" things to try and get off of politics for a while. Do you have any knowledge of legends of giants in America? Probably conspiracy tomfoolery but been wanting to ask.

 

[lil devils x]

Looks more like double ox horns to me.

By the way Lil, I've been returning to a subject from my youth I enjoyed which is cryptozoology and other "wooweewoo" things to try and get off of politics for a while. Do you have any knowledge of legends of giants in America? Probably conspiracy tomfoolery but been wanting to ask.

Not that I have ever heard of.. Maybe in other tribes oral histories, but then again, those might just have been red headed vikings by the way they were described. XD

 

[lil devils x]

Glad you explained the second one - it looked like an eagle attacking someone.

It is actually the eagle dance, so it sort of was. HAHA!
Our tribe is known as " The great Eagle of the North" to Central and southern American Tribes.

 

[Trunkage]

It is actually the eagle dance, so it sort of was. HAHA!
Our tribe is known as " The great Eagle of the North". to Central and southern American Tribes.

It was pretty cool once I understood the context

 

[lil devils x]

Looks more like double ox horns to me.

They are actually referred to as " squash blossoms"

 

[Kae]

So I've been trying to write a genuine response to this topic for a while, but to be honest it is hard, maybe this is because unlike other people here I both think the kid is guilty and that what he did is wrong, but it's not actually impossible for me to picture myself in his situation, obviously not the exact same one but when I was an angry kid if I had gotten involved with one of many Mexican militant groups I think I genuinely could have done something awful.

As such what I wanted to discuss was something else, something apart of whether he did it or not or whether it was wrong or not, something from the perspective of what he did is wrong and what to do assuming that he's guilty, I guess what I want to discuss is what should we do with people like this.

For starters I'll say that I personally don't believe the concept of justice and enforcing it is particularly useful to society and as such I don't think that seeking retribution will accomplish anything of value, there's also the idea of forced labour in order to have criminals repay their debt to society but I don't think that's good either, maybe it's because I'm naive of because I can genuinely empathise and sympathise with people like this, maybe it's just because I want to feel better about myself and I know I haven't always been a good person and as such I want to believe that people can change and therefore maybe I'm a good person now, it doesn't really matter I guess, but I think we should seek some form of rehabilitation.

In this case in particular we're dealing with a kid, so understanding why he made the decisions he made is crucial, what lead him to such extreme behaviour? What environment did he grew up on? What are his social relationships? And so on.

I'm not an educated person I'm not well-versed on matters of Psychology or anything of the sort, but perhaps if we could change the system to address this problems more directly and through a lens of compassion we could have a better more harmonious society, people are complicated, I don't know the kid, I don't know if he was a good or bad person, I don't know what a good person is, but I know he did wrong, my question is, when someone does something wrong does that mean we should dispose of them or try to help them become better?

To be honest I'm not even sure what I'm talking about.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

They are actually referred to as " squash blossoms"

Cool regardless.

Also, I know this is going to sound stupid but I have to ask if my eyesight is going. Is the person in this image below with the white jacket a girl? Because I look at them and see boobs yet I have people telling me I'm crazy and that this is a man.

 

[Houseman]

Also, I know this is going to sound stupid but I have to ask if my eyesight is going. Is the person in this image below with the white jacket a girl? Because I look at them and see boobs yet I have people telling me I'm crazy and that this is a man.

Yes, of course that's a girl. I've watched that video too.

 

[lil devils x]

Cool regardless.

Also, I know this is going to sound stupid but I have to ask if my eyesight is going. Is the person in this image below with the white jacket a girl? Because I look at them and see boobs yet I have people telling me I'm crazy and that this is a man.

View attachment 677

1) That is a really bad photo and as such could be deceiving.
2) from that really bad photo that does appear to look like a female.

 

[Trunkage]

Cool regardless.

Also, I know this is going to sound stupid but I have to ask if my eyesight is going. Is the person in this image below with the white jacket a girl? Because I look at them and see boobs yet I have people telling me I'm crazy and that this is a man.

View attachment 677

At a guess, I'd call them a women but I'd be willing to bow to further evidence.

We could just Shapiro it and test their chromosomes

 

[lil devils x]

So I've been trying to write a genuine response to this topic for a while, but to be honest it is hard, maybe this is because unlike other people here I both think the kid is guilty and that what he did is wrong, but it's not actually impossible for me to picture myself in his situation, obviously not the exact same one but when I was an angry kid if I had gotten involved with one of many Mexican militant groups I think I genuinely could have done something awful.

As such what I wanted to discuss was something else, something apart of whether he did it or not or whether it was wrong or not, something from the perspective of what he did is wrong and what to do assuming that he's guilty, I guess what I want to discuss is what should we do with people like this.

For starters I'll say that I personally don't believe the concept of justice and enforcing it is particularly useful to society and as such I don't think that seeking retribution will accomplish anything of value, there's also the idea of forced labour in order to have criminals repay their debt to society but I don't think that's good either, maybe it's because I'm naive of because I can genuinely empathise and sympathise with people like this, maybe it's just because I want to feel better about myself and I know I haven't always been a good person and as such I want to believe that people can change and therefore maybe I'm a good person now, it doesn't really matter I guess, but I think we should seek some form of rehabilitation.

In this case in particular we're dealing with a kid, so understanding why he made the decisions he made is crucial, what lead him to such extreme behaviour? What environment did he grew up on? What are his social relationships? And so on.

I'm not an educated person I'm not well-versed on matters of Psychology or anything of the sort, but perhaps if we could change the system to address this problems more directly and through a lens of compassion we could have a better more harmonious society, people are complicated, I don't know the kid, I don't know if he was a good or bad person, I don't know what a good person is, but I know he did wrong, my question is, when someone does something wrong does that mean we should dispose of them or try to help them become better?

To be honest I'm not even sure what I'm talking about.

I agree that the entire US justice system needs to be overhauled as it does not focus on rehabilitation at all, it instead is focused on punishment and revenge and thus why it causes more crime rather than actually reduces it. The US also does not have any sort of victim protection, so it doesn't even keep the people safer in the process. The rehabilitation system in the Netherlands is a much better system overall, and I really hope they one day shift to such a system. I already stated my opinion on him being a kid, his brain isn't even fully formed. That said, there is no possible way that this particular kid can be the first person to be shifted to " rehabilitation" without causing a huge backlash due to the thousands of black teens who have been tried as adults and treated far more harshly for lesser crimes than he committed here. Making him the example for change would only prove to reinforce that there is one set of rules that apply to blacks and another set of rules for whites. In this circumstance, he regretfully would have to be treated the same as they have been treating black teens or all hell will break loose. I think it is terrible they are treating any teens the way they do in the US justice system, but the first one to change that can't be the far right's new action hero who thinks it is okay to kill black people. It being the white kid that people sympathize with and see themselves in makes it even worse in how cold and inhumane they treat the many black kids who they have no empathy for whatsoever. If they were lenient on this kid, it would just cement the fact that the law is not applied equally to all classes and races.

 

[Kae]

I agree that the entire US justice system needs to be overhauled as it does not focus on rehabilitation at all, it instead is focused on punishment and revenge and thus why it causes more crime rather than actually reduces it. The US also does not have any sort of victim protection, so it doesn't even keep the people safer in the process. The rehabilitation system in the Netherlands is a much better system overall, and I really hope they one day shift to such a system. I already stated my opinion on him being a kid, his brain isn't even fully formed. That said, there is no possible way that this particular kid can be the first person to be shifted to " rehabilitation" without causing a huge backlash due to the thousands of black teens who have been tried as adults and treated far more harshly for lesser crimes than he committed here. Making him the example for change would only prove to reinforce that there is one set of rules that apply to blacks and another set of rules for whites. In this circumstance, he regretfully would have to be treated the same as they have been treating black teens or all hell will break loose. I think it is terrible they are treating any teens the way they do in the US justice system, but the first one to change that can't be the far right's new action hero who thinks it is okay to kill black people. It being the white kid that people sympathize with and see themselves in makes it even worse in how cold and inhumane they treat the many black kids who they have no empathy for whatsoever. If they were lenient on this kid, it would just cement the fact that the law is not applied equally to all classes and races.

I guess it makes sense to acknowledge the political context of the USA, and that I'm perhaps somewhat ignorant about a lot of it, it's not my country after all.
I guess I was just taken aback by how frivolous and absurd the dialogue has been in this thread and wanted to voice my concerns, since we are talking about people and what happened here is a tragedy, and I do feel people have been focused in ridiculous details, but perhaps that is because even though I don't sympathise with the right-wingers I'm still divorced of the context of the situation and the politics aren't really relevant to my life and as such perhaps beyond me.

I guess I just wanted to remind everyone we're talking about people not just politics and things are much more complicated than right vs left, good vs evil or whatever else you guys want to talk about.

I don't know I'm rambling, I have some experience with this kind of violence and it's not pretty, so I guess I have weird feelings about everything and I think all of us have been pretty tasteless in the way we have been discussing the whole thing, anyway, it doesn't matter I don't know what I'm talking about so I'm going back to sulking on my corner or whatever.

 

[lil devils x]

I guess it makes sense to acknowledge the political context of the USA, and that I'm perhaps somewhat ignorant about a lot of it, it's not my country after all.
I guess I was just taken aback by how frivolous and absurd the dialogue has been in this thread and wanted to voice my concerns, since we are talking about people and what happened here is a tragedy, and I do feel people have been focused in ridiculous details, but perhaps that is because even though I don't sympathise with the right-wingers I'm still divorced of the context of the situation and the politics aren't really relevant to my life and as such perhaps beyond me.

I guess I just wanted to remind everyone we're talking about people not just politics and things are much more complicated than right vs left, good vs evil or whatever else you guys want to talk about.

I don't know I'm rambling, I have some experience with this kind of violence and it's not pretty, so I guess I have weird feelings about everything and I think all of you guys are being pretty tasteless in the way you have been discussing the whole thing, anyway, it doesn't matter I don't know what I'm talking about so I'm going back to sulking on my corner or whatever.

I agree that this has been discussed pretty "tastelessly", most of the debate about technical legal definitions when there are people who are dead now whose families and loved ones are forever going to be unconsoled by this. This kids life is forever ruined, his family devastated and the propaganda machine that caused it in the first place is in full force promoting this atrocity to get entire armies of more kids just like this taking up arms in their name. The whole situation is disgusting tbh.

The kid is just a product of this exploitation and being used by them and everything he could have been without them is now forever gone. But yea, if they treat him any different than they have treated the many black kids who have done less, it won't just " appear to be racist" it WILL Be racist as hell.

 

[Houseman]

and the propaganda machine that caused it in the first place is in full force promoting this atrocity to get entire armies of more kids just like this taking up arms in their name.

Didn't you suggest that a black militia should come in and take over in post #317? And didn't you say that they should bring their kids too?

 

[lil devils x]

Oh and houseman, I have you on ignore so don't expect me to respond. You just troll post everything out of context to BS people but everyone already has you figured out already. I only see anything you post when not logged in. AND no, I did not say they should have black militant child armies, They were ONLY supposed to go to Missouri in protest of that to make them REJECT the law they passed that allowed kids to have guns in public. The entire point of that protest would be to make sure we DON"T have kids with guns in public at all. But you knew that already, you also already know that no one believes anything you say anymore because of these stupid antics. ALL militias are bad and no kids should have guns in public regardless of race. THAT was the entire point to be made. Scaring white people into passing gun laws by having black people show up with them is a surefire way to get the laws changed. THAT was the entire point that went over your head.

 

[Houseman]

ALL militias are bad and no kids should have guns in public regardless of race.

Good. So don't advocate for sending a black militia anywhere, for any reason, not even to "protest", not even to "scare white people"

 

[lil devils x]

Good. So don't advocate for sending a black militia anywhere, for any reason, not even to "protest", not even to "scare white people"

AS long as white militias are doing it, it may be the only way to get the point across. When we do away with militias all together, they wont be needed anymore. The point is we need to do away with all the white militias first as well and have stupid people passing laws to allow kids to have guns in public reverse course. I will advocate for all races to have militias in protest of white militias so long as those racist jack asses are threatening everyone. That has to stop FIRST. These other militias wouldn't even exist if that were not happening as they happened in response to, not at the same time, not before, but as a response to what they have been doing for ages now. Also don't tell me what to do. You're not the boss of me, I am not even going to show your ignored content anymore anyhow. So there's that.

If it takes having black militias to scare white people into realizing giving kids guns in public is a bad idea, so be it. We should do whatever it takes to make them realize how bad of an idea that is. The important thing here is to make it stop before more people get needlessly killed.