Every week I still fill my car full of petrol despite knowing full well what it took to get it there. I could not make it through a single day without the use of products and services that I either personally utilised or utilised by proxy that were only affordable to me because of the use of cheap exploitative foreign labour.
I wouldn't want to come across as a bit of a hypocrite for punishing Mr. Card on his political views in all honesty.
Why is it people only cry out that you have to respect that its someones personal opinion when its about being LGBT? If the headlines were about a guy writing Superman who hates black people, or thinks women should be beaten by their husbands then no-one in their right mind would be saying 'oh you have to separate the artist from their work'. I'm also not sure why people think that Scott Card is capable of separating his views from his work when his tie in to Shadow Complex turned the faceless goons into an 'evil liberal' plot to overthrow the government and oppress the poor, poor conservative states.
Personally I won't be buying it because DC comics hasn't put out a decent Superman story in over 20 years.
Ok im confused. All these people who are saying we don't have the right to comment on his personal beliefs or actions (as they aren't criminal) Isn't saying someone else s personal beliefs are wrong the entire basis of the civil rights movements over the last 100 years. The suffregetes said that thinking woman were brainless was wrong, Martin Luther (I cant remember the organisations name) said saying and thinking the blacks were unevolved was wrong.
Judging other peoples opinions is the whole basis of social change. Just because someone holds a view does not entitle them to being considered equally right.
The acceptance of such attitudes is why they continue and the continued monetary support only helps.
For me this really sucks, I wasn't aware of OSC attitudes and had quite enjoyed Enders game and was intending to read the rest. Now I will be neither reading nor buying his work.
Pfft, I would have walked out the second I found out I would be working with OSC. Though I'm pretty sure being an artist isn't easy, the dude might have a family to support and walking out might have been a very tough decision for him. Either way, I'm glad he walked out. We all have a right to refuse association with someone. I'm pretty sure OSC refuses to associate himself with LGBT people, so I consider this quite fair.
I hope this heralds the end of OSC's popularity. Though I foresee a lot of ignorant people blindly jumping in to defend him, as they are wont to do.
I for one, am not buying BioShock Infinite or SpecOps: The Line because I don't like what the games espouse. Pure and simple. The anti-Americanism there is as offensive to me as what Card says to some of you.
There's a small part of all this that I do not understand. There are people who want Card fired? or not be allowed to work on Superman comics. There are people who want someone to not have a job because of his personal beliefs. I don't care how much of a dick head, asshole, bigot Card is, isn't that still discrimination against him or possible other -ations?
No, that's just a little logical loop hole bigots like to come out with so that they think they've got one over on you. It's perfectly fine to point out and shame bigots. He can say what he wants, obviously, but it's other people's right to call him out as a fucking idiot and not support him because of it.
LysanderNemoinis said:
I for one, am not buying SpecOps: The Line because I don't like what the games espouse. Pure and simple. The anti-Americanism there is as offensive to me as what Card says to some of you.
There isn't a fence. Political leanings are purely an illusion from where you happen to be standing.
My stance is a bit out there as seeing marriage as pointless in a society with no consequence for having sex outside of marriage, living together outside of marriage, having and raising children outside of marriage. Marriage is only ever relevant with divorce, and THAT undermines marriage more than gays saying it should be about reciprocal love, not tradition.
I for one, am not buying BioShock Infinite or SpecOps: The Line because I don't like what the games espouse. Pure and simple. The anti-Americanism there is as offensive to me as what Card says to some of you.
No, that's just a little logical loop hole gays like to come out with so that they think they've got one over on you. It's perfectly fine to point out and shame gays. He can say what he wants, obviously, but it's other people's right to call him out as a fucking idiot and not support him because of it.
I think it is okay to personally not buy his work because of his beliefs and actions. But I don't think it's okay to be laying insults against him, to be forming internet 'mobs', and the few people (on other websites) who are posting he shouldn't be able to work on Superman comics or for DC at all is not okay by me, that is discrimination, that is being bigoted, it's wrong. Weren't you ever told two wrongs don't make a right?
Apparently, most people are not familiar with his more recent work. I also loved the Ender books when I read them. A few years ago I discovered he was anti-gay when I read about his remake of Hamlet. It's quite interesting:
And then there's the startling reveal at the end of the novella, in which we discover - spoiler alert - that Hamlet's father was gay, and that this made him a terrible king. And his ghost was actually a demonic liar that misled Hamlet as to his cause of death. Claudius didn't kill Hamlet's dad after all - instead, it was Horatio, who was taking revenge on Hamlet's dad for molesting him as a little boy. Hamlet's dad also molested Laertes, and Rosencrantz, and Guildenstern, and turned all four of them gay in the process. (Oh, and in the end, Hamlet goes to Hell for all the harm he's caused, where his gay dad will molest him for the rest of eternity.)
I still remember his tie-in novel for Shadow Complex, "Empire." Early in the book, when discussing the possibility of a second American civil war, one "wise" character suggests that the war will not be between the Left and the Right, but between "those who want war and those who don't" (paraphrasing). The former group, it turns out, IS the Left, though it turns out that it was actually manipulated by the Center to bring down the Right. Which is, according to OSC, the noble (but humble!) ideological master race that encapsulates all decent and normal people. Or something. The political agenda was quite entertainingly transparent. Though apparently not as much as Hamlet's Father. Now that sounds like a real piece of work.
I kind of wish actors, authors and people in the entertainment industry would keep their opinions to themselves sometimes. I didn't know Orson Scott Card felt that way. I liked his book too..
(Please note that the Spoiler areas are just brief 'Anger venting' towards the guy after doing some reading into some of his 'Opinions', and can just be overly ignored)
I'm entirely supportive of Homosexuality as having the same rights as anyone else. But that also creates a problem, since if we want to give equal rights to everyone, than we HAVE to tolerate assholes like this guy.
And regardless of how much I want to pull this guy's own scrotum overtop his head and make him crawl naked through a football field of broken glass, razor blades, and lemonjuice-soaked salt...I have to show some tolerance.
If he puts the words "Superman hates faggots!" on the front page, then I'd be grabbing my pitchfork and torch and joining the mob to go kill the monster. However if he keeps his arguably personal belief's to himself and doesn't let it impact his actual work, then YES he should fully be allowed to be a writer for the comic.
Even if he IS a total piece of S**T who needs to be strangled with a chain covered in hot tar, and set on fire
Because overall if we expect everyone to have freedom of speech and belief than YES that unfortunately means we have to tolerate the assholes too. But there is a line that should NOT be crossed, and if he tries to cross that line by pushing his own personal (and/or ignorant) beliefs onto someone else, THEN we should try and stop the guy.
Which overall is the double-edged sword that is Democracy and Human Rights, if you give freedom and privileges to one group, you kinda have to give those same rights to the rest. Which is unfortunate that we're still working on getting that part down.
So while there are probably a line-up of several thousand people who'd gladly kick this guy in the pelvis until his crotch was re-located to somewhere around his neck region...we gotta show some restraint
I'm sorry but being anti-gay or campaigning against gay marriage does not make one morally wrong. To have this be morally wrong, it would mean that people who were gay / supported gay marriage and the like were morally right. However, the issue is that the government won't let two people be recognized as married. That doesn't mean that they can't be gay, the government won't start killing those groups off, and society won't change a damn bit.
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