Ashamed to be part of the gaming community some days (like today).

[Still Life]

It honestly is amazing to me that the community is so split on this ridiculous scandal. Calling this petty on behalf of the gaming community is an understatement.

I'm incredibly amazed by just how far people are going to manufacture excuses for this kind 'mob' mentality. It's the height of entitlement to expect that your bad behavior and lopsided concept of respect can be validated when someone who is being constantly subjected to abuse bites back in self-defense. It's this kind of attitude which gives ammunition to outlets like FOX and their ludicrous spin on news.

I cannot, as a person, sit around and not speak out when someone is being harmed for the pathetic amusement of so called 'fans', trolls and (going by this thread) their apologists.

 

[Savagezion]

It honestly is amazing to me that the community is so split on this ridiculous scandal. Calling this petty on behalf of the gaming community is an understatement.

I'm incredibly amazed by just how far people are going to manufacture excuses for this kind 'mob' mentality. It's the height of entitlement to expect that your bad behavior and lopsided concept of respect can be validated when someone who is being constantly subjected to abuse bites back in self-defense. It's this kind of attitude which gives ammunition to outlets like FOX and their ludicrous spin on news.

I cannot, as a person, sit around and not speak out when someone is being harmed for the pathetic amusement of so called 'fans', trolls and (going by this thread) their apologists.

Yeah, I can't agree more. When I first read this thread, I just figured a lot of people would actually agree with your stance as it is actually the "common sense" stance, or so I thought. It boggles my mind how many people are backing such entitled childish hate. That isn't even mentioning the ignorance and hypocrisy. Apologists, trolls, and 'fans' are extremely irritating on this matter and honestly remind me of when the KKK gets a platform and tries to speak out and sound intelligent but fail miserably. There is just so much ignorance and hypocrisy in every 'point' they are trying to make you don't even know where to start pointing out where they failed as there is just too many places to point at.

The good thing is that Bioware is handling this commendably well.

 

[Gamer_152]

What happened to Hepler was shameful. She said some things which I find a little objectionable, but even before you start looking at the people throwing insults, the importance some people placed on the comments and work of one Bioware writer was ridiculous. I feel truly sorry for the woman and the hate that's been rained down on her has been at its best, rather sad, and at its worse disgusting. While stereotyping must always be avoided, at least a large chunk of the video game community, and probably the most vocal section of the video game community, do fit the old image of the pathetic geek, detached from reality, yelling at people over the internet for nothing. All you can do is tell yourself that being part of this group, in no way reflects on you as a person, and anyone trying to tell you it does is wrong.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Heres why I don't feel bad:

Twitter has a block button.

She can either use that, or flat out choose to ignore her detractors. Kevin Smith does it, why can't she?

Same thing when some idiot kills themselves over cyberbullying. YOU CAN FUCKING BLOCK PEOPLE! USE IT!

 

[ElPatron]

I almost had an aneurysm reading that.

- I did not claim she wrote those things while she was supposed to be writing. To be honest I couldn't give a damn. She's a writer, anyway.

- Professionalism is usually related to your profession. I did not like what she said? Not unprofessional. Insulting your target audience? Unprofessional.

- A lot of people have Facebook accounts. It's supposed to be just personal and unrelated from work, but you have to watch your fingers. You can and WILL be fired if your company does not like what you have been posting. Why? It's unprofessional.

- So far, Justin Bieber has been under flak every single day and I don't hear about him taking the piss on everyone. It's really shameful when JB has more BALLS than Jenni and can handle bullying without bringing himself down to the bullies' level.

- She actually represents something. She might not be the McDonald's manager, but if she was "grilling the hamburger" (writing the story) and spitting on it she would be fired.

- I never said the bullies should not get a forum ban. In no way my analogy proven your point.

- So if I enter the Escapist and call everyone who plays games a virgin nerd I deserve a ban, but a writer saying that does not deserve to be put away from the gaming industry? Double standards much?

I don't believe in the "weakness all humans have".

You either have what it takes, or you don't. One mistake is already too much.

 

[Sirron Kcuch]

I say, let us make a Hepler support movement.

 

[Savagezion]

I almost had an aneurysm reading that.

I know the feeling. It

- I did not claim she wrote those things while she was supposed to be writing. To be honest I couldn't give a damn. She's a writer, anyway.

It blows my mind how many people are oblivious to their own subtext.

Also, even if I was wrong (which I might be), that would not make me unprofessional. It would be unprofessional if I was supposed to be working and spent my time here on the Escapist.

This quote seems to imply you find her statements unprofessional because she was "on the clock". If you meant this separately, the point is moot as that is not the topic of the discussion and a bad analogy at best.

- Professionalism is usually related to your profession. I did not like what she said? Not unprofessional. Insulting your target audience? Unprofessional.

Well, I could easily argue that if people are willing to harass someone, they will probably boycott the company too thus making them NOT the target demographic. You should note that she wasn't talking about anyone BUT those that were harassing her, not the Bioware fanbase. I would think that is common sense but I am beginning to think you don't think so.

- A lot of people have Facebook accounts. It's supposed to be just personal and unrelated from work, but you have to watch your fingers. You can and WILL be fired if your company does not like what you have been posting. Why? It's unprofessional.

It is unprofessional to fire someone over their facebook page if you ask me. It's like firing someone for being gay or liking rap. What people do in their spare time is not directly tied to their employment. This is a slippery slope. Is cussing one too many times on your facebook page unprofessional? Is finding articles that bash the Obama administration unprofessional? Why is MY facebook page dictated by YOU?

I won't say your wrong on this point, because there is a solid point there. However, I will say that I disagree with these actions being too invasive on personal privacy. I actually think this falls right in a grey area of whether companies should even be allowed to do that. So long as no evidence can be provided that your facebook page in no way impedes or begins influencing your work duties you should not be able to be fired for it.

- So far, Justin Bieber has been under flak every single day and I don't hear about him taking the piss on everyone. It's really shameful when JB has more BALLS than Jenni and can handle bullying without bringing himself down to the bullies' level.

He isn't being harassed on a constant basis either and it grew on him. Hepler woke up one day to sudden harassment over an interview that was six years old. It's called shock value. The element of surprise is a popular strategy because it has a tendency to fluster your opponent.

- She actually represents something. She might not be the McDonald's manager, but if she was "grilling the hamburger" (writing the story) and spitting on it she would be fired.

But she didn't spit on the hamburger like the guy who hid a penis on the cover art of the little mermaid. She had some customers berate her for not making it taste as good as Burger King's burgers and she snapped.

- I never said the bullies should not get a forum ban. In no way my analogy proven your point.

No, I said it worked against yours. The aggressors here were the ones at fault.

- So if I enter the Escapist and call everyone who plays games a virgin nerd I deserve a ban, but a writer saying that does not deserve to be put away from the gaming industry? Double standards much?

Oh, so you ARE capable of identifying a double standard? The "fans" initiated it by relentlessly calling, tweeting, and emailing her with degrading remarks. The "fans" who had apparently not seen a video that was 6 years old until this year. You see this as acceptable behavior. Don't deny that, you do, because you have yet to even acknowledge how fucked up it was that a mob formed on this woman for NO REASON. The reason they were using had reached its "statute of limitations" and that ignores the fact that the reason is entirely asinine. Why don't we start harassing Notch on a daily basis about his weight and his inabilities as a developer tomorrow? Maybe we should do it to Schafer? Maybe Ken Levine? We don't really need a good reason because our arguments will just be about their weight or whatever shortcoming we can expose about them. As far as their work goes, we'll just say they suck - no explanation needed beyond that. We can actually recycle the insults thrown at Hepler on Schafer, Levine looks like he doesn't shower in the morning, and Notch - oh, Notch is just a huge ball of insults. He has given us plenty of ammo, he degraded children in person.

Let's go harass them on a daily basis one after the other and then get all pissed and demand they be fired if they so much as say one wrong thing to us! It'll be JUSTICE SERVED!

That is your argument. That is what you are saying right now. No, I don't think she needs to be fired. Hell, I wish Bioware would hand her the money she needs to make that game she was talking about as a big middle finger to all those entitled little whiners.

I don't believe in the "weakness all humans have".

You either have what it takes, or you don't. One mistake is already too much.

Oh, bullshit. Wars have been fought and won using psychological warfare and that is exactly what this is. It is called Psychology, go check it out sometime. Although, you'll have to climb off your pedestal to do so. Every human is susceptible to it.

 

[lRookiel]

I don't "Rant", I set misguided individuals straight using logic and reason.

Then I give up when they go "FUCKIN HAX OMFG!111!!!!!!1!1 HOW DID YYOU EEVEN C M3 THER£ HAX!".

Then I move on, which is what we should ALL learn to do. like this incident for example. These people should learn to move on, the dragon age games weren't life changing, why do they make a big deal out of it? Oh yes that's right because they are ALL Dirty Trolls!


to quote the rules of the internet:

"Rule #14: Do not argue with trolls ? it means that they win."
"Rule #20: Nothing is to be taken seriously."
"Rule #71: The internet is SERIOUS FUCKING BUSINESS!."
"Rule #118: Newfags must be tortured to death. No exceptions ."

 

[ElPatron]

I almost had an aneurysm reading that.

I know the feeling. It

- I did not claim she wrote those things while she was supposed to be writing. To be honest I couldn't give a damn. She's a writer, anyway.

It blows my mind how many people are oblivious to their own subtext.

Also, even if I was wrong (which I might be), that would not make me unprofessional. It would be unprofessional if I was supposed to be working and spent my time here on the Escapist.

This quote seems to imply you find her statements unprofessional because she was "on the clock". If you meant this separately, the point is moot as that is not the topic of the discussion and a bad analogy at best.

Doesn't imply anything. You totally missed my context.

We were talking about being unprofessional. I said that the only way my words could have been considered unprofessional was if I was spitting them instead of working. Because what I do has nothing to do with my opinions on a cry-baby that couldn't just forget about Twitter for a week or two and just focus on something else.

Therefore, I don't give a monkey's about her schedule. All I am saying is that my words were not unprofessional like your exposition of logic made them seem.

It is unprofessional to fire someone over their facebook page if you ask me. It's like firing someone for being gay or liking rap.

Ah. We dig ourselves into the "Politically Correct" argument.

And, no, it's not the same thing.

What people do in their spare time is not directly tied to their employment. This is a slippery slope. Is cussing one too many times on your facebook page unprofessional? Is finding articles that bash the Obama administration unprofessional? Why is MY facebook page dictated by YOU?

I won't say your wrong on this point, because there is a solid point there. However, I will say that I disagree with these actions being too invasive on personal privacy. I actually think this falls right in a grey area of whether companies should even be allowed to do that. So long as no evidence can be provided that your facebook page in no way impedes or begins influencing your work duties you should not be able to be fired for it.

That's the point. Facebook is one of the easiest places to mine information. It's just a matter of time before someone gets in reach of reading some posts that should not be there at all.

Like exposing inside information, gossips and name-calling, etc etc etc.

Just because it's your personal page, it's not the place to talk about certain things, specially your job. Same applies to twitter.

Come on, just admit that there is a lot of things that although you're not afraid telling to your family or friends you would never include them on a "personal" page. No need to make wild assumptions about the Obama administration.

By the way, if I wanted to vote for president X and someone dug up proof that he was against things I like, I would not vote for him anymore.

I don't believe in the "weakness all humans have".

You either have what it takes, or you don't. One mistake is already too much.

Oh, bullshit. Wars have been fought and won using psychological warfare and that is exactly what this is. It is called Psychology, go check it out sometime. Although, you'll have to climb off your pedestal to do so. Every human is susceptible to it.

Oh, for crying out loud, now you're really trying hard.

There. Are. No. Excuses.

I don't care how "weak" you are. If you are performing a job, I want you to grow a pair and face the "firing squad".

I don't want you crying. You do that when you arrive home. Cry yourself to sleep, kill yourself. I don't give a damn.

"Weakness all humans have" is just non-sense talk. You either got it takes, or you don't. There are no prizes for runner-ups. Fake it, if you have to.

It was what she would have done. Jen could have just thrown her computer at the wall, drink a whole bottle of wine, cry herself to sleep and have a complete breakdown. But you NEVER let your opponent see your weakness. She gave the bullies exactly what they wanted.

She shown she can't handle the heat. She needs to step out of the kitchen.

For someone who boasted about having a job in the industry, she doesn't seem to even like it enough to just suck it up.

Although, you'll have to climb off your pedestal to do so. Every human is susceptible to it.

No matter how hard tweeter comments could hurt me (seriously? hurt by tweeter comments? FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS, PEOPLE!) I would never say anything that could compromise my position. If I needed to cry, I would. If I needed to hit the booze, I would. But "weakness" is only a feature you decide to show.

 

[PinkiePyro]

she is oboulsy wrong but the ppl attacking her are also headdesk worthy
the Internet is not middle school if you dislike something/someone clearly state why, don't just throw around insults

a better reponse to her is that idea is beyond stupid if you remov the combat/actions then what you have is a movie not a freaking game

 

[Savagezion]

I don't believe in the "weakness all humans have".

You either have what it takes, or you don't. One mistake is already too much.

Oh, bullshit. Wars have been fought and won using psychological warfare and that is exactly what this is. It is called Psychology, go check it out sometime. Although, you'll have to climb off your pedestal to do so. Every human is susceptible to it.

Oh, for crying out loud, now you're really trying hard.

There. Are. No. Excuses.

I don't care how "weak" you are. If you are performing a job, I want you to grow a pair and face the "firing squad".

I don't want you crying. You do that when you arrive home. Cry yourself to sleep, kill yourself. I don't give a damn.

"Weakness all humans have" is just non-sense talk. You either got it takes, or you don't. There are no prizes for runner-ups. Fake it, if you have to.

It was what she would have done. Jen could have just thrown her computer at the wall, drink a whole bottle of wine, cry herself to sleep and have a complete breakdown. But you NEVER let your opponent see your weakness. She gave the bullies exactly what they wanted.

So your argument is she should be held accountable that her initial reaction to this overnight explosion of invasive hatred and malice wasn't to bottle up stress, commit substance abuse, and possibly suicide. Are you fucking kidding me? Seriously, are you fucking serious? Do you actually think that argument sounds reasonable? She should potentially commit suicide instead of tell these entitled shits what she thinks of them? (Which is often seen as theraputic in psychology like a pressure valve.)

I mean, that is so wrong as a stance I don't even know fully how to respond. You suggest unhealthy alternatives to a healthy one due to political correctness. You think being politically correct is more important than your own welfare. Another huge dose of irony considering your posts are not politically correct, by the way.

She shown she can't handle the heat. She needs to step out of the kitchen.

For someone who boasted about having a job in the industry, she doesn't seem to even like it enough to just suck it up.

Although, you'll have to climb off your pedestal to do so. Every human is susceptible to it.

No matter how hard tweeter comments could hurt me (seriously? hurt by tweeter comments? FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS, PEOPLE!) I would never say anything that could compromise my position. If I needed to cry, I would. If I needed to hit the booze, I would. But "weakness" is only a feature you decide to show.

Yeah, yeah. That stuff sounds great in dialogue for a movie but this is reality and people have weaknesses. This isn't even disastrous press as you are making it out to be. "Writer mocks trolls" STOP THE PRESSES, FIRE THE WENCH! Yahtzee does it in a mailbag episode and everyone praises his name. Why ain't you shouting that he be fired?

 

[ElPatron]

Clearly you never heard of a hyperbole. Poping a bottle of wine and just letting off steam by crying is exactly the opposite of suicide. Destroying personal items is letting off steam.

It prevents you from holding those feelings inside you.

Suicide would be poping a bottle of wine, gulping it down in a relatively short time span and the pop a few pills. That's suicide. And a very cliche one.

Seriously, drinking is a socially accepted activity. So let me rephrase it. She should just roll one up and smoke a doobie.

Weed. Illegal but doesn't give you idea of suicidal tendencies. Moving on.

Yahtzee does it in a mailbag episode and everyone praises his name. Why ain't you shouting that he be fired?

I don't like how you used the word "troll" incorrectly, but I guess words mean whatever people want these days.

Yahtzee is a great man and his show consists on taking the piss on games. Of course he wouldn't be nice in a mailbag episode.

But hey.

Yahtzee is not "in the industry". He isn't boasting on how he has a show on the Escapist and you don't, he isn't criticizing you for being one of his viewers.

So you complain about him on the internet? You're giving him more exposure.

Yahtzee is respected by a lot of people. Like in the same sense a rockstar is.

They can smash hotel rooms, do coke, curse like sailors, punch cops in the face after being DUI.

But we will still buy their tickets and jump on the front row.

You just don't want them there back in real life, handing out this semester's accountancy.

They are a liability. They don't belong here.

I would totally hire Yahtzee for job X or Y, because I know he wouldn't upload a childish video for Zero Punctuation taking the piss on people who insulted his work. I expect that kind of professionalism.

If he didn't, then I would just walk up to him and say "I'm sorry, Ben, but I can't let you run around the internet creating enemies. If you felt threatened you should have asked for help, not doing exactly what those flamers wanted."

 

[Savagezion]

Clearly you never heard of a hyperbole.

No, clearly you just don't know how to use it properly and in context.
You made sure to set the tone of your post with statement like this all throughout it:

There. Are. No. Excuses.

Then slid this in there:

Cry yourself to sleep, kill yourself. I don't give a damn.

If you want people to pick up on your hyperbole, perhaps you should structure your writing around it better. Especially, when your point is so extreme and unforgiving anyways it is a thin line between your point and hyperbole.

It's kind of funny you get offended at Hepler's behavior then have the nerve to claim hyperbole when you slip up and say she should have bit her tongue even if it meant a slew of unhealthy consequences.

However, again you offer nothing but unhealthy solutions to this problem. Also, again you dismiss any fault on part of the gaming community and rest it all on Hepler's shoulders.

Yahtzee does it in a mailbag episode and everyone praises his name. Why ain't you shouting that he be fired?

I don't like how you used the word "troll" incorrectly, but I guess words mean whatever people want these days.

Hehe, I used troll incorrectly? Digging up a 6 year old interview and harrassing a woman out of nowhere isn't trolling? Perhaps you are thinking of the creature in fantasy fiction? Both are valid uses of the term. "Internet trolling" comes more from someone just wanting to stir up trouble, which is exactly what happened here. Just in case, you may want to write that down; common terminology on forums.

Yahtzee is not "in the industry". He isn't boasting on how he has a show on the Escapist and you don't, he isn't criticizing you for being one of his viewers.

Actually, I think he has done the former.

Your view of Yahtzee is a little disturbing.

I would totally hire Yahtzee for job X or Y, because I know he wouldn't upload a childish video for Zero Punctuation taking the piss on people who insulted his work. I expect that kind of professionalism.

That is EXACTLY what his mailbags are.

He gives a subjective opinion, people write in to insult him and tell him how he is wrong. Kinda like what happened to Hepler on a much larger scale. He makes a mockery of them on his weekly show. Not just a twitter feed, his main attraction show. He gives the mockery a full episode. That would be like Hepler writing in a dialogue section to a game to address this.

Yahtzee's mailbag episode is worse than what Hepler did. Your idolization of him is what makes you think that is OK and this is not. I have debated with you before and know you will never credit so much as a valid point to an opposing side of a discussion. You see these things as an argument to be won or lost not examining it through multiple viewpoints. I personally have seen your viewpoint and find it repulsive. We have had our discussion, and I know where this leads. You are already having to start throwing out red herrings and strawmen and you will soon be lost in your own argument. So, I am done with this last post.

 

[gamee-o]

Teh interwebz a cruel unforgiving place. Deal with it.

 

[ElPatron]

Good thing I never considered myself a gamer... just a person who enjoys playing games.

A wine connoisseur is not a drunk wino. I watch films very frequently but I am not a cinephile. I listen to music everyday and I am not an audiophile.

My point: you have no fault and no reason to be ashamed. You probably play more frequently than the people who did this anyway, so paddling away from the mess isn't necessary.

Cry yourself to sleep, kill yourself. I don't give a damn.

Good thing I can go back on what I said, unlike some people who shouldn't have Twitter accounts.

It's kind of funny you get offended at Hepler's behavior then have the nerve to claim hyperbole when you slip up

I have that privileged. I don't have my job on the line, I am not insulting the consumers of my product.

However, again you offer nothing but unhealthy solutions to this problem.

Do I have to? I am not a MD, I'm pretty sure that is illegal.

Twitter: 100% healthy solution to all of your problems.

Also, again you dismiss any fault on part of the gaming community and rest it all on Hepler's shoulders.

- Never said they were not at fault. They did what they did. They did not point a gun at Jen's head and force her to say those things.

- Stupid people say stupid things EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. We just don't care.

- Gaming community? Oh come on. First, it's a medium. Millions of people play videogames. There is no "gaming community". You probably meant "neckbeard community and friends".

I don't figure the millions of kids and "dudebros" that play FIFA/Madden and Call of Duty know anything about this.

I did not know about this before I saw this thread. I found it hilarious.

Hehe, I used troll incorrectly? Digging up a 6 year old interview and harrassing a woman out of nowhere isn't trolling? Perhaps you are thinking of the creature in fantasy fiction? Both are valid uses of the term. "Internet trolling" comes more from someone just wanting to stir up trouble, which is exactly what happened here. Just in case, you may want to write that down; common terminology on forums.

Bwoooo bwooo. Wrong answer. Specially with the patronizing part about fantasy fiction.

Digging up a 6 year old interview

That is called good journalism, my good sir. And a very fine one. It basically obliterated any pity I could feel for her.

It's an insult to our intelligence how she boasted about having a job in the wrong industry.

harrassing a woman out of nowhere

That is called "flaming" (or "griefing" when done in game).

Trolling?

Trolling is an art.

The verb comes from the Old French hunting term ?troller.? According to Merriam-Webster[9], the English verb to troll refers to the act of slowly dragging a lure while fishing as bait.

I'm not the one who doesn't know the "basic forum terminology". Creating a tweeting account is to trolling like running around the block is to a marathon.

Your view of Yahtzee is a little disturbing.

Yeah, it's totally disturbing to see Yahtzee as just one of us, with the exception that he just says what he has to, and his job allows him to not be in trouble for doing so.

I would totally hire Yahtzee for job X or Y, because I know he wouldn't upload a childish video for Zero Punctuation taking the piss on people who insulted his work. I expect that kind of professionalism.

That is EXACTLY what his mailbags are.

Why are bent on starting a crusade on his mailbags?

I said I would hire him for a job because I would trust him to NOT insult my costumers.

By insulting people who tell him he is wrong, he is pleasing his viewers.

If I had a company that produced goddamn orange juice, I could not give a damn about what he posted on Zero Punctuation. I don't care who he is insulting as long as it doesn't get related to work.

I don't hear Stephanie Meyer calling everyone who likes vampires a "fat girl" who will never have her own work published.

It's unprofessional.

Seriously. Why the hell are you defending a grown woman who can't separate her own personal life from her work and made childish insults towards gamers on the internet?

 

[TheProffesor]

This is how this works.

On the Internet, people are mostly anonymous. They have nothing to lose. They can say anything they want. Other people on the Internet see this and mob mentality kicks in. They support the inflammatory statement, and maybe make an even more inflammatory statement.

Normally, it would stop once everyone heard it because it would be old news. Except then someone decides to play devil's advocate and then argues against the other faction. Then other people join in. This causes the argument not only to stick, but increase as more people join in. Before you know it, the flamewar is all over the Internet.

This cycle continues as long as two parties keep argueing over it, which could be forever.

In the words of the Reapers, The Cycle Cannot Be Broken.

 

[ElPatron]

Who said I was ashamed? I just don't consider myself a gamer. Beyond that, I don't know how you'd know whether I play more than anyone else here.

I can't really tell if you're being antagonistic or not.

Definitely not, and I did not say you were ashamed. I said that nobody should feel ashamed for this because we can't consider ourselves a community. There is no "music listeners" community, just because I play games doesn't mean I joined a secret club.

Creating a distance between you and other people who enjoy games makes no sense. You just play goddamn games. Great. So do we. No need to say others are more X or Y than you.