astral projection.

[BrassButtons]

Also, I tested him once, by hiding something dear to him in the house, and, well, he found it pretty much instantly after his little session.

This is bad evidence for multiple reasons. First, 'pretty much instantly' is incredibly vague, and doesn't actually tell us how long he took. Second, because you (presumably) did not actually record the time, we have to trust your memory on how long it took, and memories are very unreliable for this sort of thing. Third, even if you did have an accurate time of how long it took him, we don't know if his result is statistically significant.

A better test would be if you had a deck of cards, and after he allegedly projected you laid X number of cards out. When he's no longer projecting, ask him which cards you had (and possibly in what order--depends on the exact nature of his claimed ability). Depending on how many he guesses right you can determine if his results are better than random chance, and if so by how much.

I know it's impossible, mind you. I'm a man of science, and I find it completely ridiculous to think that anyone could possibly push his conscience out of his own body and still sense his surroundings. But then I am ridiculous, I guess.

Thinking something is impossible means not thinking it can be done, and thinking something can be done means not thinking it impossible. Accepting one of those claims requires rejecting the other.

And no, goddamnit, I'm not going to ask him to do some test so he can win a million bucks. That would just make him a freakshow.

Actually, it would probably make him a superstar. A lot of people have made themselves incredibly popular (and wealthy!) by claiming supernatural abilities (Uri Gellar, Sylvia Browne, etc). And if he doesn't want to be wealthy, there are plenty of worthy causes he could donate to.

But nevermind that--this would be a huge scientific discovery, easily worthy of a Nobel Prize. If consciousness isn't tied to matter, then what does that mean for the study of neurology? How about more immediately practical uses, like search and rescue? Someone astral projecting can scout an area without physically being there, and then give important (and potentially life-saving) information to the rescue team. Or what about studying dangerous storms up-close? Or volcanic eruptions? Understanding those can lead to life-saving knowledge, but it's very difficult (not to mention dangerous) to study them up close for obvious reasons. The astral projector need not fear the storm or the lava.

Your friend could be instrumental in not only furthering science, but saving lives.

 

[Pinkamena]

Haha, yes, astral projection, that's a good one.
Wait, you're serious? Let me laugh harder.

EDIT: Also, if astral projection was real, don't you think it'd be, you know, used actively? Like for example in order to observe things up-close that you usually can't because it's dangerous?

 

[Xaio30]

Funniest thread in a while!
Thanks OP, for making my day. ^^

OT:
Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence.
If someone claims to be able to do AP or similar without being willing to prove it, he or she is probably just insecure and want a way to feel/seem special.

 

[ljh217]

This nine and a half minute beat poem sums up how I feel about the supernatural (including astral projection):

Spoiler

 

[MasochisticAvenger]

Fair enough, just being stiff is a sad excuse for something supernatural, but I can't really describe it any better. He basically was so stiff you could hang him upside down and he'd still be calmly meditating in with his legs crossed. Also, I tested him once, by hiding something dear to him in the house, and, well, he found it pretty much instantly after his little session.

Pretty much instantly? Sorry, but that sounds like a term someone uses when they don't want to commit to what they are saying. Same with the word "could": you claim you could hang him upside down without disturbing him, but what is your basis for it? Have you tried it? Do you have proof?

Besides, you hid something in his house... isn't it more likely that he just knows the good hiding spots and where you would hide something? As it has been said before, you are been quite vague. How long did he really take to find it? How many places did he look before he found it? How many times has he done it?

I know it's impossible, mind you. I'm a man of science, and I find it completely ridiculous to think that anyone could possibly push his conscience out of his own body and still sense his surroundings. But then I am ridiculous, I guess.

Yet your entire first post was trying to convince us you have a friend who can do it?! Your logic is that you don't believe someone could astral project, but you believe someone could astral project. Right...

And no, goddamnit, I'm not going to ask him to do some test so he can win a million bucks. That would just make him a freakshow.

Bullshit. You don't want him to do it, because it would just prove you are lying. Excuses like "I don't need the money" and "I don't want the attention" are just excuses people use so they don't have to prove anything.

 

[spartan231490]

What? How does believing in god, make any of the same assumptions as believing in astral projection? Seriously, how?

Astral projection is the idea that one has a nonphysical part that can leave the body if one concentrates hard enough, as far as I can tell. Belief in a god assumes that there is an all-knowing intelligence that created the universe, and that depending on how you live, that intelligence will give you some sort of afterlife. The idea of the afterlife implies that there is a nonphysical part that can leave the body. Which is the same assumption that Astral Projection makes. Except while Astral Projection makes one assumption, belief in a god makes the same and quite a few others. It's kind of odd to me that I have to actually explain this, I thought it was obvious, but apparently not.

You forget the most important assumptions that astral projection makes. 1) that you have the power force your soul to leave your body, whilst religion grants humans no such power. 2) That your body can exist without your soul in it. 3) That humans have had this ability in the past and the present without being discovered. 4) That the soul exists in this physical dimension and has the ability to move through space.

None of these are assumed by any religion which I am familiar with.

I find these 4 assumptions far more difficult to believe than the assumption that the universe was created by an all powerful being. Religion only really makes that assumption because any other "assumption" made by religion is explained by that one. If God can create the universe, he certainly has the ability to manipulate it.

Specifically, if you're curious, I find assumptions 2 and 3 to be particularly hard to swallow.

 

[Joccaren]

Genuine supernatural occurences are frequently branded insane by those who lack the ability to experience them.

That statement goes so well with your avatar and (sig?)

Anyways...
Nope. And unless someone can perform a test with me watching over the whole process, and selecting the candidates, that proves that they are capable of Astral Projection, I will remain highly sceptical. Don't take it personally, I'm highly sceptical of what seems to be innate abilities I have - sensing when someone is in the same room as me, whether I am awake or asleep, and knowing when something bad is about to happen - E.G: Both my friend and I stopped in the middle of an open field one time with a bad feeling when a stick fell from the sky to the location we would have been standing in. Not the first occurrence, nor the last.
The first I generally put down to my senses detecting the slight change of heat, the slightest sound, almost anything that would give away their presence, and my subconscious giving me a feeling that someone is there, as I am a heavy sleeper and there is no way those slight signs would wake me up normally.
The second I put down to my subconscious being attentive, noticing the shadow infront of me even though I don't and remembering things that I didn't pay attention to (Example: That stick was the exact same stick I had thrown to the side earlier near a group of kids playing god-knows-what sport. It is likely one of them threw it (Very hard considering how high up it was and how far it travelled) and figured that then was the time that it would fall, whilst adding in the fact that there was a shadow in front of my.

I don't actually believe I am psychic or have supernatural powers, only that my senses and subconscious alert me to things others generally don't get alerted to. Do my explanations make sense? Probably not, but personally they make more sense than me being psychic.

 

[the Dept of Science]

I'm not too hot on what astral projection is exactly, but there is something silly about all these people asking for verifiable external proof of what looks like an internal experience. It would be like demanding proof of someone's dream.

I don't doubt that some people have an experience of astral projection. I do however deny that it has any supernatural cause/significance. Our brains are capable of producing some weird experiences, through hypnosis, meditation, drugs or otherwise. If a hypnotist can make a man truly believe that he is a barnyard animal, a man should be able to make himself truly believe that he is out of his body.

 

[the rye]

Oh please everyone knows supernatural occurrences are simply the result of YOG SOTHOTH beckoning mortals ever towards insanity and truth, Praise the outer gods, AI DAGON AI CTHULHU.

And i know astral projection to be false, yog sothoth to me it a load of codswallop.

 

[lacktheknack]

No but I command control over dairy products with my mind

Yeah? Well I'm lactose intolerant, so you have no power over me!

I won't stand for intolerance around here!

You're going to love and tolerate the milk out of him?

...

Actually, I think I don't want to see a pic of that.

I WAS HAVING A TOTALLY PLEASANT AND NOT-AT-ALL-SICKENING NIGHT UNTIL YOU CAME ALONG! ,,,,,,,,,,;_;,,,,,,,,,,

OT: Nope. I think that it exists
believe it's possible
don't want to face the wrath of the overly self-assured, but
Bah, screw it. I can't finish this sentence without an inbox flood.

 

[Crazy Zaul]

I tried it but then the Winchesters came in and threw ketchup at me.

 

[DarthFennec]

You forget the most important assumptions that astral projection makes. 1) that you have the power force your soul to leave your body, whilst religion grants humans no such power. 2) That your body can exist without your soul in it. 3) That humans have had this ability in the past and the present without being discovered. 4) That the soul exists in this physical dimension and has the ability to move through space.

None of these are assumed by any religion which I am familiar with.

I find these 4 assumptions far more difficult to believe than the assumption that the universe was created by an all powerful being. Religion only really makes that assumption because any other "assumption" made by religion is explained by that one. If God can create the universe, he certainly has the ability to manipulate it.

Specifically, if you're curious, I find assumptions 2 and 3 to be particularly hard to swallow.

I suppose. I guess I'm just hung up on assumption 0, which is the existence of a soul in the first place. Astral projection, among other similar concepts, as well as the existence of some meaningful all-powerful creator being kind of depend on that one idea, and I find it very hard to swallow. The way I see it, if a soul did exist, wouldn't things such as where it went after death or how much control you might have over it or whether your body could exist without it be kind of ... secondary?

I don't know, it seems to me that arguing over the nature of a soul is like arguing over the nature of any other fantastical idea. Saying that it's hard to believe that a body might be able to survive without a soul is like saying it's hard to believe a vampire might be allergic to crucifixes, it's pointless arguing about it because it's not actually real. So from that perspective, I don't really want to bother with the specifics of what you can and can't do with a soul as long as we're still talking about imaginary things.

In retrospect, this entire conversation seems a little pointless ... what was it again that you were trying to convince me of? I can't recall.

 

[xdom125x]

I don't do it much at all, primarily due to the fact that there are no proveable ways to actually do it.

I'm not too hot on what astral projection is exactly,

It's the belief that people can project their consciousness outside of their body.

but there is something silly about all these people asking for verifiable external proof of what looks like an internal experience. It would be like demanding proof of someone's dream.

That isnt a good analogy because people that claim that astral projection is a real thing are saying that they can observe objective reality beyond the confines of their body. A dream is fictional.

I don't doubt that some people have an experience of astral projection. I do however deny that it has any supernatural cause/significance. Our brains are capable of producing some weird experiences, through hypnosis, meditation, drugs or otherwise. If a hypnotist can make a man truly believe that he is a barnyard animal, a man should be able to make himself truly believe that he is out of his body.

So the people that "have experienced" astral projection just had their minds playing tricks on them, right?

 

[Loonyyy]

You're mistaken. Astral projection isn't real. Of course, if you really think you can project a consciousness outside of your body, take the JREF challenge, win money.

 

[Some_weirdGuy]

Guys, astral projection is totally real, how else do you think Santa knows weather you were naughty or nice?

 

[Batou667]

i can provide a step by step of how to AP,

it is NOT a lucid dream.
it is NOT self hypnosis.
it is NOT a lie.

Fantastic! What are the steps?

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

[rant] ENOUGH!! i am sick to death of being criticized! and don't say it isn't, because it obviously is, lock this thread and post no more! this has been a disaster, and it should be left alone! [/end rant]

Im being polite, please dont have another rant on me, im genuinely curious.

In your mind was the thread going to be everyone agreeing that astral projection was real? Or something else? You asked for an opinion on a topic, people gave it, when one person makes an assertion and another makes another assertion its called discussion. Then the first person critisizes the second assertion while talking about his own, then the other person does the same. Its called a debate and its valid discussion? Whats wrong with critisism? I welcome it on my views, its a chance to talk about what i like in a friendly matter. Ill admit some people are being dicks and just mocking you, thats unfair, but many are just giving views on the topic. Maybe you are new at internet forums so ill help. Someone disagrees with you (politely, ignore the rest) throw out a counter statement, talk about the issue.

I had a goddam poem battle in this thread, it isnt serious, its pleasant conversation about a topic. Ignore those who mock you, talk to those who offer an opposing opinion. Being critisised is GOOD. If your opinion holds water it should be able to stand a little strutany. Is it so weak it cant take even the slightest counter opinions? I invite anyone to critique me and my views. Its how we learn.

 

[the Dept of Science]

I don't do it much at all, primarily due to the fact that there are no proveable ways to actually do it.

I'm not too hot on what astral projection is exactly,

It's the belief that people can project their consciousness outside of their body.

but there is something silly about all these people asking for verifiable external proof of what looks like an internal experience. It would be like demanding proof of someone's dream.

That isnt a good analogy because people that claim that astral projection is a real thing are saying that they can observe objective reality beyond the confines of their body. A dream is fictional.

I don't doubt that some people have an experience of astral projection. I do however deny that it has any supernatural cause/significance. Our brains are capable of producing some weird experiences, through hypnosis, meditation, drugs or otherwise. If a hypnotist can make a man truly believe that he is a barnyard animal, a man should be able to make himself truly believe that he is out of his body.

So the people that "have experienced" astral projection just had their minds playing tricks on them, right?

I think you are agreeing with me?

All I'm saying is that it's a wholly mental phenomenon. I think that you are mistaken if you believe that your mind is somehow physically leaving your body, but you can't deny that you have had the experience. People can disconnect themselves from bodily sensation through meditation, out of body experiences aren't uncommon on LSD trips, this just sounds like a variation on that.

EDIT: In fact, if you take away the spiritual/new age language and research "out of body experiences", then you will find that they are very scientifically well documented:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience

 

[Smooth Operator]

Genuine supernatural occurences are frequently branded insane by those who lack the ability to experience them.

That would be everyone outside comic books.

Well I do it every night, I astrally project into various girls panties but they never seem to remember afterwards... it's quite odd that.

 

[Generalissimo]

i can provide a step by step of how to AP,

it is NOT a lucid dream.
it is NOT self hypnosis.
it is NOT a lie.

Fantastic! What are the steps?

lie down in a bed, or sit in a chair, but you must be comfortable, start repeating a word or sound constantly in your head, until you no longer need effort to keep repeating that thought. (this can be a bit tricky) you will after a short while feel a slight sinking feeling, and then your body going stiff and unmoveable, do not resist this. once paralysis is complete, ensure the thought or sound is still looping. you should start to feel a tingling sensation, when it gets to the point of being spread throught your body. it's time to leave. know (don't visualise, just know that it is there) there is a rope hanging above you, with your mind, grasp the rope and pull your self hand over hand out of your body. get up and open your eyes, if you have done it right, you can look at your unconcius whilst being in astral form. to re-enter your body, simply go into contact with it, and you will wake up in physical form.